Shameful Metoer cheats from a top EP guild NA Trueflame

themdogesbite

bitaken wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Partly my point. The thing is - on Azura's (non CP) - my group when we reach 10 people - is easily able to take on 40+ and win regularly. I will grant you that not everyone on Azura's is "experienced" but we did this for well over 6 weeks making millions of AP in the process.

We make sure to weave staff attacks to refill magicka, use proxy det and time our ultimates and position them well and stay tight enough to get 3-4 PD's in an area - but not tight enough to get blasted in the same manner.

At the end of the day 10 people working together - knowing how each other plays - and timing abilities / communicating well are going to appear to be cheating to the standard "LFG" crowd based on a lot of what has happened publicly here and in private chat and other places like guild websites and the like, if they wipe out 2-3X their number on a regular basis. However, it has ALWAYS remained my argument that those 10 tightly co-ordinated people in a group that have been working together for years - should ALWAYS be able to wipe out 2-3X their number even if in the midst of that 2-3X their number there are 10 or so experienced PvPer's trying to lead the "LFG" crowd to victory.

Well, this raises an issue doesn't it?

The main problem with this communnity is that many people think that numbers should always decide the outcome rather then how induviduals play togheter and synnergise within a group.

Lucifer_Malice

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

I don't know. Is it? Where are you going with this?

Where im going is that you are still kinda throwing out accusations without any proof. It's kinda basic knowledge how to not run oom or oos after 2 years in this game.

I highly doubt that the ammount of people useing this is as high as people think, ESO really isn't a very difficult game to learn, if anyone runs arround and thinks everyone is cheating it's kinda the same as expecting everyone arround him to be a thief, which is kinda far fetched isn't it?

You were just fishing for an argument. I've never even heard of you and didn't name names, but my post did state that perma-resource pools and faster speed are rampant and that more people cheat than everyone thought. It takes ALOT for me to run out of any resource as a mangage them well, but there is blatant cheating going on and 3v30 EXPERIENCED should fall to the 30. You either are looking for a debate or argument where there isn't one or you didn't understand my post.

themdogesbite

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

heystreethawk

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

3vs30, maybe not. 12v36... That's doable. "Experienced", in my mind, is quite a few notches under "elite"; to transition from the former to the latter requires something just short of an epiphany, and a group that's either capable of making that same leap together, or astute & patient enough to spot players on the cusp of something great and bring them on board. I really do think there's a tendency for experienced groups (not saying yours, because I wouldn't say that and also because I don't know who they are) to radically underestimate how much improvement exists in the ether beyond "experienced".

Part of that, honestly, includes a really solid group comp that makes use of the builds you don't think people run, and the skills you don't think people use. "Rotations" are for PvE, where values are more predictable. "Elite" players are patient and eagle-eyed, waiting to seize the right moment for a particular ability or sequence of abilities; do not discount the unconsidered possibilities behind your enemy's formulations.

Lucifer_Malice

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

lol Never said "everyone". Have I done something to you? You need a hug? Wan't to be BFF's? Lets hug it out, bro.

themdogesbite

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

lol Never said "everyone". Have I done something to you? You need a hug? Wan't to be BFF's? Lets hug it out, bro.

Thats post wasn't aimed at you though, but sure i always have time for some hugs!

DaveMoeDee

Mako1132 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I can see both sides of this argument.

ZOS side: what those cheaters did ruined the enjoyment of many players and violated terms. Not only that, it also hurt the reputation of the game and now everyone knows what program they can use to cheat. I have found myself tempted to give it a try in some PvE. (Especially after seeing so may people's vMA builds that suggest to do it using Maelstrom arena weapons. So, my build should include time travel?)

Cheater side: cheating issues only get attention when they have a major, obvious impact on the game and lot's of people are currently getting away with hard to prove cheating. ZOS might have been thinking that it is too expensive to fix the cheating situation and the ult spammers felt that the game was being ruined by the subtle cheaters so they decided to make it that ZOS was forced to deal with the problem. At the very least, maybe they would pay more attention to reports about people doing seemingly impossible things.

Sorry my good man, but cheating is an issue because the chump behind the keyboard makes the decision to cheat.

ESO could have all the holes in its code to allow cheating. if 100% of its player base did not cheat because THE PLAYER THEMSELVES made the choice not to cheat, well then, cheating wouldn't be an issue.

This is a poor argument.

If my credit card number gets stolen because a company gets hacked, the company doesn't share the blame for not securing their system?

There are going to be hackers are there are going to be cheaters. Companies needs to spend money to decrease their risk, regardless of their industry. They try to balance the costs of security with their perception of the chance that they get compromised. There is always a way to improve security, but it requires money, overhead, and restrictions. These impact usability and cost. It is fair to critique a company if you think they neglected risk management for bigger margins.

Personally, I am willing to accept some level of exploits over even worse performance, but I am not a competitive gamer.

So, yes, cheating is a problem because people choose to cheat. It is also a problem because developers leave vulnerabilities. Fix either side of that equation and we have no cheating. Unfortunately, we know that there will always be cheaters and we know that there will always be vulnerabilities. So companies are forced to make judgment calls on how much attention to focus on vulnerabilities while remaining profitable.

What he's saying is, the company didn't make the person do what they did by being vulnerable. There's something wrong with the person. Would your reaction to your scenario be "Well my bank deserved it because they didn't protect their information, thanks for stealing my info hacker"? That's how some people have responded to this situation.

But his comment didn't make sense in reply to my comment!

Yes, the person chose to cheat. But I am paying ZOS for the game, not that person. I expect my bank to secure my information.

If he wants to respond to the other people you mention, than he should have responded to them. But if a bank chooses to save money by not encrypting their website and someone steals my info over the Internet, the bank gets blamed for that. This has nothing to do with "deserving". Sharing responsibility is not "deserving".

There is a reasonable argument that certain people felt ZOS would not spend the resources to combat cheat engine (if combating it is actually possible) unless they were forced too and turning Cyrodiil into a joke was considered a way to do that. I think the people who did that should be perma-banned, but they have a valid point that ZOS may have been choosing to ignore the problem because fixing it was perceived to be too costly.

God_flakes

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

Unmmmm no. People called CERTAIN sorcs cheats and many of those were indeed cheating and banned for such!!

Zheg

Elong wrote: »

It's a witch hunt. Burn the witch!

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yI2oS2hoL0k[/video]

God_flakes

This thread is taking on the distinct smell of cow poo on a hot day.

themdogesbite

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

Unmmmm no. People called CERTAIN sorcs cheats and many of those were indeed cheating and banned for such!!

And how many accused have been competely innocent? The point im trying to make is that you wont gain anything from thinking everyone you run across that kills you are cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun in the game.

Ghostbane

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

lol Never said "everyone". Have I done something to you? You need a hug? Wan't to be BFF's? Lets hug it out, bro.

Thats post wasn't aimed at you though, but sure i always have time for some hugs!

Can I have a hug?

themdogesbite

Ghostbane wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

lol Never said "everyone". Have I done something to you? You need a hug? Wan't to be BFF's? Lets hug it out, bro.

Thats post wasn't aimed at you though, but sure i always have time for some hugs!

Can I have a hug?

Yes ghosty, yes you can.

Lucifer_Malice

heystreethawk wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

3vs30, maybe not. 12v36... That's doable. "Experienced", in my mind, is quite a few notches under "elite"; to transition from the former to the latter requires something just short of an epiphany, and a group that's either capable of making that same leap together, or astute & patient enough to spot players on the cusp of something great and bring them on board. I really do think there's a tendency for experienced groups (not saying yours, because I wouldn't say that and also because I don't know who they are) to radically underestimate how much improvement exists in the ether beyond "experienced".

Part of that, honestly, includes a really solid group comp that makes use of the builds you don't think people run, and the skills you don't think people use. "Rotations" are for PvE, where values are more predictable. "Elite" players are patient and eagle-eyed, waiting to seize the right moment for a particular ability or sequence of abilities; do not discount the unconsidered possibilities behind your enemy's formulations.

Agreed, but my post was about 3v30 and that happens lot and there isn't alot of real estate between "elite" and "experienced". It is a simple game to learn and "git gud" at. I wouldn't call myself or anyone I run with "elite", but were pretty darn good and have all skills set for supporting one another in PvP and have all playeed for a long time. So back to my point that 3v30, W goes to 3 everytime should never happen, but happens all the time. It's not against everyone, but a good number of people and on a daily basis.

Ghostbane

themdogesbite wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

lol Never said "everyone". Have I done something to you? You need a hug? Wan't to be BFF's? Lets hug it out, bro.

Thats post wasn't aimed at you though, but sure i always have time for some hugs!

Can I have a hug?

Yes ghosty, yes you can.

Not sure if I'm Dracro..

Volla

Minnesinger wrote: »

That is so nice. Take a look at this video and tell me how this continues?

["https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EXQ5enFYh4"]

I don't give a damn if he tries to show the cheat... perm ban definitely ....

Volla

stewie_801 wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Well, I don't know how posting videos showing people cheating is naming and shaming - but I am certain ZOS will find a way to say that the videos are naming and shaming.

The ones ashamed - should be ZOS. The players doing it are shameful and certainly this type of advantage is not needed. However, in the end, the company should be all over this. If someone were using this in PvE it would be fixed already heh.

Wonder how many people have used it to get on the leaderboards for pve

Many lame F****

Zheg

Ghostbane wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

lol Never said "everyone". Have I done something to you? You need a hug? Wan't to be BFF's? Lets hug it out, bro.

Thats post wasn't aimed at you though, but sure i always have time for some hugs!

Can I have a hug?

Yes ghosty, yes you can.

Not sure if I'm Dracro..

I think you were supposed to be the sour looking person in the bottom right corner that's angry about missing out on the hug action.

Publius_Scipio

God_flakes wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

The real answer is that it depends. Maybe they are cheaters maybe they aren't. Can't say one way or another without evidence proving one way or another.

That's why it's imperitive that ZOS does absolutely everything they can to assure us all that hacking is no long possible in ESO, or that hacking would be difficult and very very unlikely. With those odds giving us all a clean playing field then we can move forward in good faith.

Right now we only know of the people that out in the open egregiously cheated. Many here have speculated at very subtle cheating that goes undetected but makes a world of difference character stat wise.

I know someone commenting here right now, righteously indignant, who is using CE for speed (at a minimum) and whom hasn't been caught to date. If said person is doing it, how many more are there? Dozens? Hundreds? What incentive is there for those who are committed to playing honorably to continue with this game? Maybe I am wishful thinking that Zos will really hunker down and handle this in a way that cleans house. I really, really don't want this game to be ruined by dirty players. But the more I hear, read and see the more pessimistic I feel and the more compelled I am to shelve this game completely. At least when I play Fallout I'm not facing insurmountable odds against players who are cheating (even if they're doing it subtly). I just can't believe how some of these top tier players have the nerve to come here and comment, knowing full well they're eyeballs deep in the cheating program, or look themselves in the mirror. Ask yourself, when this cheat is stripped from your toolbox (and I pray that it is) what will you do then?

Maybe if you added Greek yogurt to your diet you would become more optimistic.

Ghostbane

Zheg wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

lol Never said "everyone". Have I done something to you? You need a hug? Wan't to be BFF's? Lets hug it out, bro.

Thats post wasn't aimed at you though, but sure i always have time for some hugs!

Can I have a hug?

Yes ghosty, yes you can.

Not sure if I'm Dracro..

I think you were supposed to be the sour looking person in the bottom right corner that's angry about missing out on the hug action.

Reported.

Lucifer_Malice

Ghostbane wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

lol Never said "everyone". Have I done something to you? You need a hug? Wan't to be BFF's? Lets hug it out, bro.

Thats post wasn't aimed at you though, but sure i always have time for some hugs!

Can I have a hug?

Been saving a hug just for you. It's a special hug too. I got it from a fuzzy kitten named Mittens who lives on a cloud and makes all the rainbows in the world. Enjoy.

badmojo0777b14_ESO

Kikazaru wrote: »

EP HAS NO HONOR.


They are here at alessia with a meteor shower at this very moment.. ugh

this is HILARIOUS! cheater exist on all 3 factions, and last i checked most perma banned exploiters come from the AD and DC sides, but becuz every faction has a few bad apples, EP on TF have no honor, absolutely laughable. i plauy on TF and Had and the AD/Dc scripting macro abusers is OVER THE TOP

Rohamad_Ali

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I can see both sides of this argument.

ZOS side: what those cheaters did ruined the enjoyment of many players and violated terms. Not only that, it also hurt the reputation of the game and now everyone knows what program they can use to cheat. I have found myself tempted to give it a try in some PvE. (Especially after seeing so may people's vMA builds that suggest to do it using Maelstrom arena weapons. So, my build should include time travel?)

Cheater side: cheating issues only get attention when they have a major, obvious impact on the game and lot's of people are currently getting away with hard to prove cheating. ZOS might have been thinking that it is too expensive to fix the cheating situation and the ult spammers felt that the game was being ruined by the subtle cheaters so they decided to make it that ZOS was forced to deal with the problem. At the very least, maybe they would pay more attention to reports about people doing seemingly impossible things.

Sorry my good man, but cheating is an issue because the chump behind the keyboard makes the decision to cheat.

ESO could have all the holes in its code to allow cheating. if 100% of its player base did not cheat because THE PLAYER THEMSELVES made the choice not to cheat, well then, cheating wouldn't be an issue.

This is a poor argument.

If my credit card number gets stolen because a company gets hacked, the company doesn't share the blame for not securing their system?

There are going to be hackers are there are going to be cheaters. Companies needs to spend money to decrease their risk, regardless of their industry. They try to balance the costs of security with their perception of the chance that they get compromised. There is always a way to improve security, but it requires money, overhead, and restrictions. These impact usability and cost. It is fair to critique a company if you think they neglected risk management for bigger margins.

Personally, I am willing to accept some level of exploits over even worse performance, but I am not a competitive gamer.

So, yes, cheating is a problem because people choose to cheat. It is also a problem because developers leave vulnerabilities. Fix either side of that equation and we have no cheating. Unfortunately, we know that there will always be cheaters and we know that there will always be vulnerabilities. So companies are forced to make judgment calls on how much attention to focus on vulnerabilities while remaining profitable.

I knew this would get spun into some Silly Putty Philosophy .

Like , Guns don't kill Vampires , Blade does ! No wait , Blade doesn't kill Vampires , Whistler does ! He makes the guns !




Sure why not . Let's hear all the excuses since "Reasoning" was tossed out . Maybe we can get a "Corporate Responsibility" speech next or ethics .

bitaken

PrinceFabious wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Partly my point. The thing is - on Azura's (non CP) - my group when we reach 10 people - is easily able to take on 40+ and win regularly. I will grant you that not everyone on Azura's is "experienced" but we did this for well over 6 weeks making millions of AP in the process.

We make sure to weave staff attacks to refill magicka, use proxy det and time our ultimates and position them well and stay tight enough to get 3-4 PD's in an area - but not tight enough to get blasted in the same manner.

At the end of the day 10 people working together - knowing how each other plays - and timing abilities / communicating well are going to appear to be cheating to the standard "LFG" crowd based on a lot of what has happened publicly here and in private chat and other places like guild websites and the like, if they wipe out 2-3X their number on a regular basis. However, it has ALWAYS remained my argument that those 10 tightly co-ordinated people in a group that have been working together for years - should ALWAYS be able to wipe out 2-3X their number even if in the midst of that 2-3X their number there are 10 or so experienced PvPer's trying to lead the "LFG" crowd to victory.

Well, this raises an issue doesn't it?

I can gaurantee you have never done that. I actually have a video of my group of 5 wiping FARMING your group of 20+ and will gladly post the youtube link if you dare question it.

The last time EHJ had 20+ was right about the time the lighting patch hit. If you are referring to the BRK siege on Azura's where there were 20 EP with the emperor bombing us with bugged siege....well...as you say. There were 20+ DC in the area in two separate groups. Our group mainly consists of about 10 people with 2-4 floaters who log in once in a while and expand the group to 12-14 people at the VERY top end and the last time I saw that was on a campaign reset.

I am speaking of fighting AD on Azura's - not the best of the best and I openly admitted that in my second post - and yes there were 40 of them fighting us at Faregyl. My group of 10 pushed them from the breach to the farm killing them the entire way. The rest of DC (probably about 20 in total) were operating siege, shooting from the walls etc - but pretty much did not leave the keep - it was our 10 that pushed them to the resource.

Be careful what you guarantee. Providing a link to a youtube video of you and an emperor killing people with siege at a keep doesn't exactly prove much. I do believe we were 8 that night as well. 50K tick...guess that still burns a little.

God_flakes

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I can't wait to see your reaction when you discover templars useing cyrodiils light and the damage mitigation rune. People called sorcs cheaters aswell cause negate healed them for so much pre 1.6. Stop thinking everyone is cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun.

Unmmmm no. People called CERTAIN sorcs cheats and many of those were indeed cheating and banned for such!!

And how many accused have been competely innocent? The point im trying to make is that you wont gain anything from thinking everyone you run across that kills you are cheating, it's only going to ruin your own fun in the game.

Please spare me the condescension. I don't think everyone that kills me is cheating. But I have always been pretty certain there is cheating going on when I see someone running around with go go gadget legs at top speed or one guy taking massive dps without a twitch in his health and running circles around my group without a twitch in his stamina and then wb'ing all of us experienced v16's in under a few seconds. Yeah, I've always suspected cheating and now it's been confirmed and no amount of denying can change that.

Lucifer_Malice

Game should just have a difficulty slider like previous ES games. Then everyone can be ESO ELITE and not have to cheat.

Jules

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I'm sorry but 3v40? With health bars never moving? Please. When has that ever happened? All your numbers are so skewed and impractical.

You have not even the slightest idea of what it's like to fight 3v40. Know what it's like? Run away and line of sight or die. That's what it's like. No one I know, no matter how skilled, could ever defeat these odds unless all 40 of those people dc'd and stood there doing literally nothing. Even if terrible players were light attacking 3 people, the 40 would still win if that 3 man stayed put. Every time.

Maybe you're just so out of touch with reality because your gameplay is directly the opposite. 40v3.

Volla

cheat is always cheat... and perm banning is only option... ofc after a investigation and delivered proof.

Lucifer_Malice

PrinceFabious wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Partly my point. The thing is - on Azura's (non CP) - my group when we reach 10 people - is easily able to take on 40+ and win regularly. I will grant you that not everyone on Azura's is "experienced" but we did this for well over 6 weeks making millions of AP in the process.

We make sure to weave staff attacks to refill magicka, use proxy det and time our ultimates and position them well and stay tight enough to get 3-4 PD's in an area - but not tight enough to get blasted in the same manner.

At the end of the day 10 people working together - knowing how each other plays - and timing abilities / communicating well are going to appear to be cheating to the standard "LFG" crowd based on a lot of what has happened publicly here and in private chat and other places like guild websites and the like, if they wipe out 2-3X their number on a regular basis. However, it has ALWAYS remained my argument that those 10 tightly co-ordinated people in a group that have been working together for years - should ALWAYS be able to wipe out 2-3X their number even if in the midst of that 2-3X their number there are 10 or so experienced PvPer's trying to lead the "LFG" crowd to victory.

Well, this raises an issue doesn't it?

I can gaurantee you have never done that. I actually have a video of my group of 5 wiping FARMING your group of 20+ and will gladly post the youtube link if you dare question it.

Never wiped me or any group I run with. Show vid.

God_flakes

Jules wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

bitaken wrote: »

Lucifer_Malice wrote: »

I have only seen a handful of scroll runners out of thousands since launch running without a hack. Even with pots, cp, sets, rapids, or whatever they shouldn't have perma-stam/where'd he go speed outrunning everyone on maxxed out mounts. Also no matter skill level a group of three people no matter the skill level "elite" or novice should be able to wipe 30+ experienced PvP groups. Saying they are just that good is insane and you're saying that 1% of the players are 100% better than the rest. C'mon, bro. Everyone pretty much runs exact same build/skill set for each class and uses same rotations. Playing field should be a little more level than it is if these "elites" are playing fair.

So what do you say when a group of 10 smokes 40+ repeatedly?

Are they cheating?

Just curious.

10 experienced v 40 experienced?
Would have to say cheating, but that happening would make more sense with synergy, ward ally/etc abilites, but thats not where my post was going. My post is unlimited resources for 3 and them "smoking" 30. With that post there is no debate to be had.

In group on sorc i usually play seducer and 3x cost reduction, thats more or less infinite resources togheter with CPs. Am i cheating cause i know how to manage my resources?..

Stop it. If you're in a group of 3 and 40 people are single targeting you and you're jumping around in massive dps and your health bar isn't even twitching....yeah YOU ARE CHEATING. No way around it. You aren't managing resources cleverly. Just please. The more I see these lame claims the more suspicious I become.

I'm sorry but 3v40? With health bars never moving? Please. When has that ever happened? All your numbers are so skewed and impractical.

You have not even the slightest idea of what it's like to fight 3v40. Know what it's like? Run away and line of sight or die. That's what it's like. No one I know, no matter how skilled, could ever defeat these odds unless all 40 of those people dc'd and stood there doing literally nothing. Even if terrible players were light attacking 3 people, the 40 would still win if that 3 man stayed put. Every time.

Maybe you're just so out of touch with reality because your gameplay is directly the opposite. 40v3.

I'd be careful poking this bull, Jules.