Refined 860 Rubedire Ore and reaped 1 Tempering Alloy

failkiwib16_ESO · May 2016

helediron wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Well this is a year old thread, but I find it pretty useful still. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150087/1-6-1-numbers-for-refining-raw-materials

Last time I refined was before the exploit got fixed, so I don't know if they have changed anything since then. I am at the moment collecting & buying raw materials only, since I dislike refining small amounts.

The numbers are still valid. I have not seen any change during the year. I also tested PTS few days ago, and the droprates continue the same in DB. Overall rate from 16700 mats was 5.8% .

BTW, have you heard about Imperial Luck? Supposedly imperials get higher droprates. Guess what, it's a myth. I refined with high elf and sadly it was as lucky as my main crafter, which is imperial.

@helediron thank you so much for clearifying about the drop rates on PTS, then I don't have to hurry and refine ..I really hate refining small stacks x_x I have around 4-5k in total of raw materials atm. and just don't want to bother.

Yes I am aware of the Imperial "luck" bonus, but I have never tested it myself. I always thought they gained more, but that the difference is low enough to not make any significant difference - otherwise it would be argued that ESO was a Pay-to-Win game from pre-release

GreenhaloX · May 2016

xilfxlegion wrote: »

it might be superstition but what i do is change locations if i refine 100 or and dont get anything. or i will log out and back in.

seems to work --- i usually average 3 alloys out of every stack of ore this way.

Haaa.. thanks for the tip. I will have to try this. See if it works as for you. I been dropping 1000 each time at one locale.

xilfxlegion · May 2016

GreenhaloX wrote: »

xilfxlegion wrote: »

it might be superstition but what i do is change locations if i refine 100 or and dont get anything. or i will log out and back in.

seems to work --- i usually average 3 alloys out of every stack of ore this way.

Haaa.. thanks for the tip. I will have to try this. See if it works as for you. I been dropping 1000 each time at one locale.

another thing i do is if i do 100 ore and dont get anything i will walk away from the anvil to reset it, this seems to work sometimes also.

Cherryblossom · May 2016

I think there is more to the RNG in this game than just chance. Unlike the OP, I do quite well with Tempering Alloy and have a few hundred.

But Kuta, damn I'm starting to believe they no longer exist! From launch have accumulated 18. I have not seen 1 in the last year! Never in a mail!

Whilst I'm happy to believe that RNG can be a fickle Mistress, it seems like different people have hugely different results, which should not be the case with normal RNG (I'm sure there are matheticains on here who can explain why). So either there is something else in the game that also effects your chances or something is actually broken!

brandonv516 · May 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

I think there is more to the RNG in this game than just chance. Unlike the OP, I do quite well with Tempering Alloy and have a few hundred.

But Kuta, damn I'm starting to believe they no longer exist! From launch have accumulated 18. I have not seen 1 in the last year! Never in a mail!

Whilst I'm happy to believe that RNG can be a fickle Mistress, it seems like different people have hugely different results, which should not be the case with normal RNG (I'm sure there are matheticains on here who can explain why). So either there is something else in the game that also effects your chances or something is actually broken!

Last time I saw Kuta was 10 from a heavy sack a couple months ago. Haven't seen one since.

socivL · May 2016

sounds like this is working as intended.

xilfxlegion · May 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

I think there is more to the RNG in this game than just chance. Unlike the OP, I do quite well with Tempering Alloy and have a few hundred.

But Kuta, damn I'm starting to believe they no longer exist! From launch have accumulated 18. I have not seen 1 in the last year! Never in a mail!

Whilst I'm happy to believe that RNG can be a fickle Mistress, it seems like different people have hugely different results, which should not be the case with normal RNG (I'm sure there are matheticains on here who can explain why). So either there is something else in the game that also effects your chances or something is actually broken!

i havent picked one up in months --- but this week, i got two back to back from my hireling.

xilfxlegion · May 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

I think there is more to the RNG in this game than just chance. Unlike the OP, I do quite well with Tempering Alloy and have a few hundred.

But Kuta, damn I'm starting to believe they no longer exist! From launch have accumulated 18. I have not seen 1 in the last year! Never in a mail!

Whilst I'm happy to believe that RNG can be a fickle Mistress, it seems like different people have hugely different results, which should not be the case with normal RNG (I'm sure there are matheticains on here who can explain why). So either there is something else in the game that also effects your chances or something is actually broken!

i havent picked one up in months --- but this week, i got two back to back from my hireling.

Nestor · May 2016

xilfxlegion wrote: »

another thing i do is if i do 100 ore and dont get anything i will walk away from the anvil to reset it, this seems to work sometimes also.

Have you ever noticed that if you get very few Tempers in the first few batches, you get very few for the entire stack? I won't even waste 100 before I walk away. If in the first two refines I don't get a Temper, of any color, I exit the station and re-activate it. If I start getting Tempers, then I keep going. I do get a nice return of golds for sure.

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2016

Someone didn't say their prayers to RNGesus.

Let me help, OP:

Yea though I walk through the Valley of Shadowy loot,
I shall fear no Random Number Gens.
For Thou art with me.
Thou loadeth mine enemies with items to plunder,
And assureth me that mine damage procs a chance at gain.
When mine enemies falter and fall,
Thou assureth that there art items of wonder amongst the fodder.
Thou leadest me to calm thoughts of Motif Pages,
Thy bounty of Purple Items for deconstruction art plentiful.
Mine coffers runneth over.
Mine refinement will know no bounds, and Gold tempers shall shower upon me.

Surely those damnable Monster Shoulders shall be mine.
And wealth and the jealousy of mine Group members shall follow me,
for all the days of my life.

Amen.

Chant this before using a crafting table.

Wreuntzylla · May 2016

helediron wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Well this is a year old thread, but I find it pretty useful still. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150087/1-6-1-numbers-for-refining-raw-materials

Last time I refined was before the exploit got fixed, so I don't know if they have changed anything since then. I am at the moment collecting & buying raw materials only, since I dislike refining small amounts.

The numbers are still valid. I have not seen any change during the year. I also tested PTS few days ago, and the droprates continue the same in DB. Overall rate from 16700 mats was 5.8% .

BTW, have you heard about Imperial Luck? Supposedly imperials get higher droprates. Guess what, it's a myth. I refined with high elf and sadly it was as lucky as my main crafter, which is imperial.

Back when they switched from hireling to refining for tempers, tens of thousands of refines demonstrated a 5% chance. If they haven't changed it, you are a very lucky person!

Eshelmen · May 2016

I've refined 850 rubedite before and not one temp alloy. THEN other times I've refined about 30 and got 2 alloys.

RNG, it's crappy and good at different times.

Last week I recieved a boat load of temp alloys, this week, not so many.

Eshelmen · May 2016

I've refined 850 rubedite before and not one temp alloy. THEN other times I've refined about 30 and got 2 alloys.

RNG, it's crappy and good at different times.

Last week I recieved a boat load of temp alloys, this week, not so many.

Khaos_Bane · May 2016

This is CLEARLY L2P issue !

waterfairy · May 2016

How are you finding so much ore?

Reorx_Holybeard · May 2016

Talemire wrote: »

Um... ZOS... Address this? RNG is good and all, but I don't enjoy wasting my time... Make it so we net a base value of 1 Tempering Alloy per stack of 200 refined ore... Please and thank you.

This is unfortunately normal and to be expected. If the chance of a gold temper is 5% with each refine of 10 then we would expect a run of 86 refines to result in no tempers 1.2% of the time (0.95^86 = 0.012). Now 1% is a pretty low chance but with 1000s of player refining materials you would expect a few of them to experience it.

The bad news is given the large number of players refining ore there's a good chance that someone has, or will have, a run of 200 refines (2000 ore) without any gold temper. Hats off to whoever that unlucky fool may be....

SirAndy · May 2016

Vangy wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

How many temp alloys do you have in your bank / on toon?

Funny you should ask this. Ive always noticed my RNG is far better when I move all my gold mats to a mule vs keeping them on my farming toon/bank...... Don't know if there is any truth behind this or if its just rng...

Mhmmm ...

Never thought of it that way but i have 3 crafter toons that have all the mats and tempers in their inventory yet i always do the refining on my main who has everything at max. (but nothing researched).

I get plenty of gold tempers from refining, usually about 1 in 150.

Shadesofkin · May 2016

As a superstition, I never refine more than 200 at once, I stop go refine something else, then go back and do another 200. I don't know if it works or not, but it makes me feel like I wasted less ore between Alloys.

Sunver · May 2016

Reading this was like seeing a bunch of village people(no, not the band) chanting over the fire for better crops.

RNG is what it is - Random Number Generator and it is not affected by the amount of items you have...

It's just something that makes you feel happy and get over the failure(it's not a failure, these are gold tempers, those are rarer than rarer than rare, remember?). Get real people.

failkiwib16_ESO · May 2016

How much do you refine at a time? (general question to anyone reading this post)

I wait till I have minimum 1k minimum but preferably 5k-20k materials to refine ..so I don't to bother tabbing in and out of the menu, or teleporting to new locations for better RNG, I use an addon that clicks R button for me and refines everything >.<

I don't want much more than 20k at a time, because I end up lacking inventory or bank space.

@Sunver it's a computer game, there is no such thing as a real random number generator. ^^ RNG = a simple algorithm that works for the purpose of giving us the illusion of randomness.

xeNNNNN · May 2016

I miss the old days where you were guaranteed at least one or two tempering alloys or dreugh wax from hirelings

Sunver · May 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@Sunver it's a computer game, there is no such thing as a real random number generator. ^^ RNG = a simple algorithm that works for the purpose of giving us the illusion of randomness.

I know that sir, I'm a developer. I just don't want to unfold the secrets behind the screen causing brain aneurysms to most of the society

One step at a time I just want to lead them to the light

failkiwib16_ESO · May 2016

@Sunver you just admitted to have lied, and you claim it's to lead us to the truth? O___o

..oh the road to Oblivion is truely paved with good intentions

gamerguy757 · May 2016

The gold drops are so bad. Since gold gear is like 75% necessary end game (I play with purple and gold with no problems), it needs to be easier to get. Or make them TelVar merchandise for like 10k stones or something. Now with the buff to heavy armor, everyone will want Alloys

Sunver · May 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@Sunver you just admitted to have lied, and you claim it's to lead us to the truth? O___o

..oh the road to Oblivion is truely paved with good intentions

If you think so I'm in no position to change your mind.

Just remember about that next time you try to explain something hard or inappropriate to a child

Oversimplifying is not lying.

Over and out.

Ghost-Shot · May 2016

REKT

Reorx_Holybeard · May 2016

Sunver wrote: »

Reading this was like seeing a bunch of village people(no, not the band) chanting over the fire for better crops.

RNG is what it is - Random Number Generator and it is not affected by the amount of items you have...

It's just something that makes you feel happy and get over the failure(it's not a failure, these are gold tempers, those are rarer than rarer than rare, remember?). Get real people.

Just because there is a RNG in there somewhere doesn't tell you exactly how its implemented though. I guess we tend to imagine it to look something like:

function GetRandomNumber()
{
     Chance = random(1, 100);

     if (player.CanUseItem())
          Chance = Chance / 2;
     else
          Chance = Chance * 3;

     if (IsItemTraitUseless()) Chance = Chance * 3 + 25;
     if (IsItemTraitDivines()) Chance = Chance - 10;

     if (IsItemMonsterHelm() and player.HasMonsterShoulder()) 
             Chance = 0;

     if (player.IsArgonian()) Chance = Chance - 15;

     if (player.LootedItemLastTime()) Chance = Chance * 1.2 + 5;

     if (player.name == "Reorx") Chance = Chance / 25 + 1;

     return Chance;
}

At least that is how *I* imagine the RNG to be based on my experiences.

Valrien · May 2016

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »
Sunver wrote: »

Reading this was like seeing a bunch of village people(no, not the band) chanting over the fire for better crops.

RNG is what it is - Random Number Generator and it is not affected by the amount of items you have...

It's just something that makes you feel happy and get over the failure(it's not a failure, these are gold tempers, those are rarer than rarer than rare, remember?). Get real people.

Just because there is a RNG in there somewhere doesn't tell you exactly how its implemented though. I guess we tend to imagine it to look something like:
function GetRandomNumber()
{
     Chance = random(1, 100);

     if (player.CanUseItem())
          Chance = Chance / 2;
     else
          Chance = Chance * 3;

     if (IsItemTraitUseless()) Chance = Chance * 3 + 25;
     if (IsItemTraitDivines()) Chance = Chance - 10;

     if (IsItemMonsterHelm() and player.HasMonsterShoulder()) 
             Chance = 0;

     if (player.IsArgonian()) Chance = Chance - 15;

     if (player.LootedItemLastTime()) Chance = Chance * 1.2 + 5;

     if (player.name == "Reorx") Chance = Chance / 25 + 1;

     return Chance;
}
At least that is how *I* imagine the RNG to be based on my experiences.

Wouldn't that mean you could have a negative chance to get an item and thus OWE your perfect items?

Talemire · May 2016

mr1sho wrote: »

Talemire wrote: »

Um... ZOS... Address this? RNG is good and all, but I don't enjoy wasting my time... Make it so we net a base value of 1 Tempering Alloy per stack of 200 refined ore... Please and thank you.

I'm going share a secret some of us crafters have known for a long time if you want alloys to drop you have to farm in in low area I get 2 to 3 alloys out of a stack of 250 iron just a tip to help

You know, that's funny. One of my guildies said he refined 60 iron ore and got like 2 alloys. I was like what??? I honestly thought it was a freak fluke... But since you can confirm this... Hmm. I will try it. Thank you.

Talemire · May 2016

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Well this is a year old thread, but I find it pretty useful still. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150087/1-6-1-numbers-for-refining-raw-materials

Last time I refined was before the exploit got fixed, so I don't know if they have changed anything since then. I am at the moment collecting & buying raw materials only, since I dislike refining small amounts.

The numbers are still valid. I have not seen any change during the year. I also tested PTS few days ago, and the droprates continue the same in DB. Overall rate from 16700 mats was 5.8% .

BTW, have you heard about Imperial Luck? Supposedly imperials get higher droprates. Guess what, it's a myth. I refined with high elf and sadly it was as lucky as my main crafter, which is imperial.

@helediron thank you so much for clearifying about the drop rates on PTS, then I don't have to hurry and refine ..I really hate refining small stacks x_x I have around 4-5k in total of raw materials atm. and just don't want to bother.

Yes I am aware of the Imperial "luck" bonus, but I have never tested it myself. I always thought they gained more, but that the difference is low enough to not make any significant difference - otherwise it would be argued that ESO was a Pay-to-Win game from pre-release

If this sheds any light on the topic, I'm an Imperial... Lol...