1.6.1 Numbers for refining raw materials

Gyudan

I refined over 20,000 raw materials on the PTS tonight. Here are the numbers and some basic ratios. I let you draw your own conclusions.

PS: materials refined with quantities below 1,000 can't provide accurate figures. Just ignore those if they bother you.



Enjoy.

oddsmaker

Nice work. A standard statistical analysis reveals no significant differences between the chance for gold for ore/cloth/leather/wood or for purple. Look like chance is about 5.3% of getting gold and 6.7% chance of getting purple per refinement.

Iago

Gyudan wrote: »

I refined over 20,000 raw materials on the PTS tonight. Here are the numbers and some basic ratios. I let you draw your own conclusions.

PS: materials refined with quantities below 1,000 can't provide accurate figures. Just ignore those if they bother you.



Enjoy.

it looks better than the live refining right now as I refined a thousand Voidstone ore and recieved the following as mentioned in this thread http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1509499/#Comment_1509499

Iago wrote: »

I have my Black Smith maxed out and this is what I received after refining 1,000 voistone ore

858 Voidstone Ingots

3 Almandine

2 Amythest

2 Bloodstones

1 Chrysolyte

3 Citirine

1 Diamond

16 Dwarven Oil

3 Emerald

2 Garnet

7 Grain Solvents

14 Honing Stones

3 Jade

2 Quartz

1 Ruby

1 Sapphire

2 Sardonyx

1 Temp Alloy

1 Turquoise



If they nerfed my one hireling then I may as well re-spec and just buy all my *** from other players.

Helluin

Thanks for the accurate testing.

I refined some stacks (not many as you did) but results seemed similar to live server.
Maybe I had just some unlucky attempts.

DeLindsay

oddsmaker wrote: »

Nice work. A standard statistical analysis reveals no significant differences between the chance for gold for ore/cloth/leather/wood or for purple. Look like chance is about 5.3% of getting gold and 6.7% chance of getting purple per refinement.

Even though I only refined 3770 raw mats while NA had their week I got almost the exact same number in the discussion here. I also checked all 8 Character's 3/3 Hirelings twice daily and did the Enchanting Writ on all 8 Characters daily and listed those results. Granted I didn't have such a flashy graph like the OP did (great job btw). Wait until you see what ZoS did to Kuta's drop rates in 1.6

Helluin wrote: »

Thanks for the accurate testing.

I refined some stacks (not many as you did) but results seemed similar to live server.
Maybe I had just some unlucky attempts.

As far as I can tell, ~5% Refine rate of Legendary Tempers on PTS is nearly identical to Live right now. ZoS is feeding us premium Snake Oil when they say they "significantly increased" the drop rate via Refining in 1.6.

ashlee17

Thanks for sharing your results with us

NukeAllTheThings

Good information and thanks for the work. I'll add that I had 70 hireling mails on PTS and got 2 Tempering Alloy

istateres

As far as I can tell, ~5% Refine rate of Legendary Tempers on PTS is nearly identical to Live right now. ZoS is feeding us premium Snake Oil when they say they "significantly increased" the drop rate via Refining in 1.6.

Here's my question:
A) Is the community wrong (i.e. ZOS did what they said)
ZOS thinks they did this (honest communication, poor execution)
C) ZOS didn't do this and they know it

I'm leanning toward "B". you?

AlnilamE

Thank you for this. I was going to test this on the PTS, but I didn't have enough mats on me to create a significant sample, and I had a bug that prevented me from buying anything from Guild Stores (I was only going to pay 2k per stack of raw mats because it was "PTS gold", I'd never do that on Live...)

DeLindsay

istateres wrote: »

As far as I can tell, ~5% Refine rate of Legendary Tempers on PTS is nearly identical to Live right now. ZoS is feeding us premium Snake Oil when they say they "significantly increased" the drop rate via Refining in 1.6.

Here's my question:
A) Is the community wrong (i.e. ZOS did what they said)
ZOS thinks they did this (honest communication, poor execution)
C) ZOS didn't do this and they know it

I'm leanning toward "B". you?

Well it is PTS after all and there is tons of bugs so it's possible ZoS meant to "significantly increase" Refine rate of Legendary Tempers and it just didn't get done.

Robbmrp

Gyudan wrote: »

I refined over 20,000 raw materials on the PTS tonight. Here are the numbers and some basic ratios. I let you draw your own conclusions.

PS: materials refined with quantities below 1,000 can't provide accurate figures. Just ignore those if they bother you.



Enjoy.

Should we be worried from the 0's showing for those smithing materials where you refined over 100 and didn't see 1 gold? Currently on the live server when I'm refinined 100-150 raw ore I get at LEAST 1 gold temper regardless of ore level.

IMO they need to increase the gold and purple drops to double the percentage your listing. If they are already at 10% for gold, they may have a bug.

Iago

Robbmrp wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I refined over 20,000 raw materials on the PTS tonight. Here are the numbers and some basic ratios. I let you draw your own conclusions.

PS: materials refined with quantities below 1,000 can't provide accurate figures. Just ignore those if they bother you.



Enjoy.

Should we be worried from the 0's showing for those smithing materials where you refined over 100 and didn't see 1 gold? Currently on the live server when I'm refinined 100-150 raw ore I get at LEAST 1 gold temper regardless of ore level.

IMO they need to increase the gold and purple drops to double the percentage your listing. If they are already at 10% for gold, they may have a bug.

1 Temp Alloy out of every 100? I get one tenth of that currently on the live server.




RNG Hates Me.........................

Lynx7386

I linked this thread over in the pts bug report forum, it's obvious that the values have not been increased from live as the patch notes claim.

AlnilamE

Iago wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I refined over 20,000 raw materials on the PTS tonight. Here are the numbers and some basic ratios. I let you draw your own conclusions.

PS: materials refined with quantities below 1,000 can't provide accurate figures. Just ignore those if they bother you.



Enjoy.

Should we be worried from the 0's showing for those smithing materials where you refined over 100 and didn't see 1 gold? Currently on the live server when I'm refinined 100-150 raw ore I get at LEAST 1 gold temper regardless of ore level.

IMO they need to increase the gold and purple drops to double the percentage your listing. If they are already at 10% for gold, they may have a bug.

1 Temp Alloy out of every 100? I get one tenth of that currently on the live server.




RNG Hates Me.........................

I hates both of us. Never got that average...

Iago

AlnilamE wrote: »

Iago wrote: »

Robbmrp wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

I refined over 20,000 raw materials on the PTS tonight. Here are the numbers and some basic ratios. I let you draw your own conclusions.

PS: materials refined with quantities below 1,000 can't provide accurate figures. Just ignore those if they bother you.



Enjoy.

Should we be worried from the 0's showing for those smithing materials where you refined over 100 and didn't see 1 gold? Currently on the live server when I'm refinined 100-150 raw ore I get at LEAST 1 gold temper regardless of ore level.

IMO they need to increase the gold and purple drops to double the percentage your listing. If they are already at 10% for gold, they may have a bug.

1 Temp Alloy out of every 100? I get one tenth of that currently on the live server.




RNG Hates Me.........................

I hates both of us. Never got that average...

I get 1 temp alloy for every thousand Voidstone I refine and he gets 1 out of every 100.....

Gyudan

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I linked this thread over in the pts bug report forum, it's obvious that the values have not been increased from live as the patch notes claim.

I never tested samples of this size on live, but the refining rates seem ok to me.

DeLindsay

Gyudan wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I linked this thread over in the pts bug report forum, it's obvious that the values have not been increased from live as the patch notes claim.

I never tested samples of this size on live, but the refining rates seem ok to me.

I regularly Refine multiple stacks/day on Live and I can say for certain that I average about 5% with 3/3 Extraction. ZoS specifically said they "significantly increased" the drop rates of Legendary Tempers via Refining for 1.6. My results and others in 1.6 and your results in 1.6.1 show they did in fact NOT raise the drop rates at all. They did however significantly reduce Hireling drop rates, and nullified Kuta drop rates entirely.

Another poster pointed out the likely reason and it makes sense. Once ESO is B2P what will stop People from making multiple free accounts just to spam 8 Characters with 3/3 Hirelings to literally drown themselves in Legendaries if ZoS didn't reduce the rate. I have no problem with that change other than the insulting removal of Kuta from Hirelings altogether and the sheer lack of any "significant increase" to other methods of acquiring Legendary Tempers and Kutas. A grand total from all sources of 1.8% for Kuta is absurd.

There has to be a better way to prevent Gold sellers from exploiting multiple free accounts for Hirelings once it's B2P than to destroy all the hard work valid paying Customers have done, many since 5-day early access. Understand, I'm not terribly bothered by the reduction to Legendary Tempers as it's still running about 5% via Hirelings, that's reasonable. I'm upset about the removal of Kuta from the Hireling table (from what we've seen so far) and the complete lack of increase via Refining that ZoS said they added as well as the horrible drop rate of Kuta via non-Hireling sources. This is coming from a Player who goes out and farms mats every day usually for 1-hour a day as well as running the Gold Pledge daily, AA/HR at least weekly, and various other fun stuff in ESO. So I'm not one of those who just logs in once or twice a day for 5 min to get free stuff in the mail.

Nestor

DeLindsay wrote: »

Once ESO is B2P what will stop People from making multiple free accounts just to spam 8 Characters with 3/3 Hirelings to literally drown themselves in Legendaries if ZoS didn't reduce the rate.

It is a ton of work to get a Mule to L32 in a craft to unlock L3 Hirelings. I don't think Gold Sellers would go down this road. I don't see the Justice System having much of an impact on Temper prices as those sources are never owned.

I think I represent the higher end of the casual crafter (in that I am not interested in maximizing my Hireling Returns, just want enough materials to not have to buy everything). Here are my personal results with my hirelings since June/July

Nestor wrote: »

I have 4 Mules with 3 Eq Hirelings at L2, and each Master Crafter has an L3 for their respective crafts, so one more Wood, Cloth and Blacksmith Hireling at L3. I have one master enchanter with a L3 Hireling. I have had these hirelings since June/July. The enchanter hireling since the patch that made enchanting easier. I have also probably had 3000 refining operations between the 3 of them, so 30,000 plus raw mats have been refined. This number could be much higher, its just a guess.

In that time I have just acquired enough Gold Tempers to make a Set of Metal Armor/Weapons and enough to either make a set of Cloth or Leather armor, but not both. It's not like the Hirelings have made me rich with Gold Tempers, nor has the refining process.

helediron

Comparison of hirelings between live and PTS with EU characters, in same spirit as @DeLindsay has done HERE .

PTS: 39 mails
1 Rosin

Live: 56 mails
2 Tempering Alloys
4 Dreugh Wax
1 Rosin
4 Kuta

There is a different amount of emails because i haven't been on PTS so much yet.

Instead of nerfing this badly, i prefer to make reaching maximized hirelings hard. As in enchanting the hireling also needs many points to other enchanting skills, needing a well developed alt. We surely have put lots of skillpoints to crafts, and even hireling alts are VR level now, so there is no problem if we need to put lots of points there to maximize output from hirelings. E.g. to get Tempering Alloys with highest probability, you need maximized skill line and three points to Hireling, Metal Extraction and Temper Expertise.

I'll continue to track hirelings on PTS until EU toons get wiped, but i think then yankees can continue

helediron

A new batch of hireling mails. These include now provisioning, because i wanted to track Frost Mirriam/Bervez Juice too. One alt on PTS got it's points reset for some reason and on live i had to clean manually away some emails from low level mules. So these emails are from five maxed crafters with slight chance of mistake because of me. I do get Rekutas and stuff on both sides, but i am too lazy to count them, sorry.

Live: 44 mails
4 Dreugh Wax
2 Rosin
4 Kuta
5 Oats

PTS: 44 mails
1 Tempering Alloy
1 Kuta
6 Bervez Juice

I wonder, am i on 1.6 PTS first to get Kuta from hirelings?

DeLindsay

helediron wrote: »

PTS: 44 mails
1 Tempering Alloy
1 Kuta
6 Bervez Juice

I wonder, am i on 1.6 PTS first to get Kuta from hirelings?

It would seem so. So my previous findings of Kuta having a 0% drop rate for Hirelings on PTS can be adjusted to 0.01% lmao.

Gyudan

helediron wrote: »

I wonder, am i on 1.6 PTS first to get Kuta from hirelings?

I got one earlier this week with only one hireling since I didn't bother putting my skillpoints in all 8 characters. I let you guys figure out the drop rates.

helediron

DAMN, but can i put "second fastest Kuta in PTS" to my sig please? Make that drop rate 0,02% then.

Seriously, i feel bad for new or average players. Full legendary gear is going to be out of their reach.

s7732425ub17_ESO

From these numbers, it's quite apparent that they doubled the chance of getting a gold temper but kept everything else the same. I'm ok with this.

Snit

You should add this thread to the PTS forum, so the devs see it.

DeLindsay

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

From these numbers, it's quite apparent that they doubled the chance of getting a gold temper but kept everything else the same. I'm ok with this.

You mean halved? Legendary Tempers via Hirelings actually got reduced by almost 80%, and Kuta got reduced almost entirely. Via Refining of nearly 40K raw materials so far on PTS the Refine rate is nearly identical to Live right now, ZoS is either lying about the increase or it didn't actually make it into either the 1.6 or the 1.6.1 patch.

Snit wrote: »

You should add this thread to the PTS forum, so the devs see it.

They can see it, I don't think they care or they would've commented by now about the lack of "significant increase" we are seeing on PTS.

Leeric

so go buy all the kuta you can find is what your telling me lol

helediron

This may be the last letter that gets through. There is writing on the wall that a massive invasion is coming across the ocean. My hirelings have sent 22 posts but didn't contain any legendary materials. Auri El, have mercy upon us!

clocksstoppe

DeLindsay wrote: »

[As far as I can tell, ~5% Refine rate of Legendary Tempers on PTS is nearly identical to Live right now. ZoS is feeding us premium Snake Oil when they say they "significantly increased" the drop rate via Refining in 1.6.

No, it is doubled chance. All of the gold tempers will crash because of the massive spike in supply. I've already seen multiple guild stores being bought out in terms of raw mats by people who will refine them as soon as 1.6 launches.

This update will HURT crafters alot.

DeLindsay

clocksstoppe wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

[As far as I can tell, ~5% Refine rate of Legendary Tempers on PTS is nearly identical to Live right now. ZoS is feeding us premium Snake Oil when they say they "significantly increased" the drop rate via Refining in 1.6.

No, it is doubled chance. All of the gold tempers will crash because of the massive spike in supply. I've already seen multiple guild stores being bought out in terms of raw mats by people who will refine them as soon as 1.6 launches.

This update will HURT crafters alot.

It's NOT doubled, it's almost identical to Live right now. I Refine stacks/day and am getting pretty much exactly the same drop rate as on PTS.

Greagor

@leeric i can sell mine