cough balanced cough

zerosingularity · May 2016

RD seems perfectly fine to me. Of course I should die if the channel is on me and I hit 50% hp in 1 single tick. That makes perfect sense, NOT. As a channel, sure it will do no damage above 50% usually, but the MOMENT you are in execute range, it is already on you ready to tick for full execute damage.

RD has:

Range > Gap closers, what a load of crap this is
Channel - which is a STRENGTH since each tick is based on the HP you are at when the tick happens
Un-dodgeable - Mag users can shield, but I can't dodge-roll

MASSIVE execute range - starts at around 50%, for a channel that is NOT OK
High deeps - in combination with everything else, not acceptable

RD has too much going for it, and needs something toned down. If the damage won't be, then SOMETHING ELSE ON THIS LIST SHOULD BE!

Also, don't stop making these threads, how else will ZoS learn?

GoodOlPinkly · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

I love how this thread is literally about not being able to 1vX templars, that makes them OP. Lololol

Entirely not what I said. I do not struggle to 1vX Templars. Read again pls.

You should read the whole thread again, almost every person begging for Nerf to RD, is claiming that it is OP while being beat on by his friends. No one believes that in a 1v1 a temp spamming RD will out play them.

myrrrorb14_ESO · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Yes because the only change it had to it before it became OP was that they brought back you couldn't dodge it.
Before that people used it properly.

Before that, people didn't use it at all. That whole time it was bugged and dodgeable, you never saw it it pvp. Never.

I destroyed Templars when it was broken in IC. It marks them as easy targets.

IC is close quarters. They aren't such easy targets at upwards of 40m all buffed up across a field in Cyrodiil.

At 40 I take 2 steps back and they are out of range lol

Van_0S · May 2016

Please ZOS, don't nerf this skill for PvE!!

For PvP, do all the nerfs but just leave the PvE stuffs alone!

Joy_Division · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Yes because the only change it had to it before it became OP was that they brought back you couldn't dodge it.
Before that people used it properly.

Before that, people didn't use it at all. That whole time it was bugged and dodgeable, you never saw it it pvp. Never.

I destroyed Templars when it was broken in IC. It marks them as easy targets.

IC is close quarters. They aren't such easy targets at upwards of 40m all buffed up across a field in Cyrodiil.

Move a few meters away from the stationary RD spamming target and get out of range.

Reyals · May 2016

For all the people saying radiant destruction is crap in a 1v1 scenario duel a decent magicka Templar on a stamina build.

edited for profanity

Nifty2g · May 2016

Reyals wrote: »

For all the people saying radiant destruction is crap in a 1v1 scenario duel a decent magicka Templar on a stamina build.

Duel and decent stamina build and come say that again

edited for profanity

GoodOlPinkly · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Venom arrow or crushing shock.

Begins channeling another radiant...while his friends beat you down.

Also should everyone have to run bow or destro staff, with destroy being one of the poorest weapon lines for PvP? That doesn't sound like build diversity to me!

I do not think having RD range reduced to that of gap closer range or lower is so bad. The idea was originally given to me by a magplar main too.

I love how op the rd is when the counter counter argument is "then his friends..."

New definition of overpowered: when outnumbered, this may be able to kill me.

Sigh!

Ok news flash people, in most all those one v many kung fu action theater movies where one took on many, they were many mooks, like average pve mobs, not many other pc.

Combat happens group v group in this game. You can't balance an open world AvAvA around duels.

If your "Group" can't focus on the LightHouse Templar then it sounds like a L2P problem...

GoodOlPinkly · May 2016

Reyals wrote: »

For all the people saying radiant destruction is crap in a 1v1 scenario duel a decent magicka Templar on a stamina build.

This is hilarious!!! Also this argument is about Temps only using RD as his move of choice even if your at 100%, so if you cannot beat a Templar only using RD while your at 100% you need to shelf your pvp days.

edited for profanity

Van_0S · May 2016

Sallington · May 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Reyals wrote: »

For all the people saying radiant destruction is *** in a 1v1 scenario duel a decent magicka Templar on a stamina build.

Duel and decent stamina build and come say that again

Seriously. If between shuffle, dodge rolling, vigor, and LOS, the only attack you land is RD, you're going to have a very bad time.

Ashamray · May 2016

Killed so many roll dodging nbs, dks flapping wings and sorcs that forgot to spam shield. It's a pure positive energy for me!
There are not so many things that are really fun in magplar, but RD is one of them.

Mojomonkeyman · May 2016

Show some common sense, guys. RD is absurdely strong and counters my entire stam sorc. Just one skill...

I sincerely felt for the guys who stuck with templar through all the hard times. But templar is quite strong now, I just don`t understand why it is so difficult for you to admit that one your skills might be a bit over the top... Oneshot-Silver Shards were also "fun" for some people, but was it good for pvp?

Cyrodiil is all lasers now, with suprise attack spamming nbs inbetween - fun, fun, fun...

GoodOlPinkly · May 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Show some common sense, guys. RD is absurdely strong and counters my entire stam sorc. Just one skill...

I sincerely felt for the guys who stuck with templar through all the hard times. But templar is quite strong now, I just don`t understand why it is so difficult for you to admit that one your skills might be a bit over the top... Oneshot-Silver Shards were also "fun" for some people, but was it good for pvp?

Cyrodiil is all lasers now, with suprise attack spamming nbs inbetween - fun, fun, fun...

So your stam sorc is getting killed by one Templar only using RD???????

Mojomonkeyman · May 2016

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Show some common sense, guys. RD is absurdely strong and counters my entire stam sorc. Just one skill...

I sincerely felt for the guys who stuck with templar through all the hard times. But templar is quite strong now, I just don`t understand why it is so difficult for you to admit that one your skills might be a bit over the top... Oneshot-Silver Shards were also "fun" for some people, but was it good for pvp?

Cyrodiil is all lasers now, with suprise attack spamming nbs inbetween - fun, fun, fun...

So your stam sorc is getting killed by one Templar only using RD???????

Dude, don`t even try that bs on me. I`m a solo player. You will not find 1v1 fights in cyrodiil anymore. Means the ONLY fights I can find are outnumbered. I am no Nightblade and cannot cloak my behind out of uncomfy situations (meaning inc of enemy reinforcements). I cannot spam shield and I cannot spam flash heal.

That means, any fight that occurs will be an uphill battle for me already. I was always able to still win those. With a lot of effort, kiting and foresight. I had a chance, not more, not less.

That skill eliminates all my chances. I can simply stop solo pvping now until that skill is nerfed, because every fight ends in laser spam that isnt counterable in real world scenarios for me.

Is it really worth to have an automatic kill button against the few solo players this game has, who are not NB or MagSorc?

I was asking for common sense and not for your childish attempt to be smart.

myrrrorb14_ESO · May 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Show some common sense, guys. RD is absurdely strong and counters my entire stam sorc. Just one skill...

I sincerely felt for the guys who stuck with templar through all the hard times. But templar is quite strong now, I just don`t understand why it is so difficult for you to admit that one your skills might be a bit over the top... Oneshot-Silver Shards were also "fun" for some people, but was it good for pvp?

Cyrodiil is all lasers now, with suprise attack spamming nbs inbetween - fun, fun, fun...

So your stam sorc is getting killed by one Templar only using RD???????

Dude, don`t even try that bs on me. I`m a solo player. You will not find 1v1 fights in cyrodiil anymore. Means the ONLY fights I can find are outnumbered. I am no Nightblade and cannot cloak my behind out of uncomfy situations (meaning inc of enemy reinforcements). I cannot spam shield and I cannot spam flash heal.

That means, any fight that occurs will be an uphill battle for me already. I was always able to still win those. With a lot of effort, kiting and foresight. I had a chance, not more, not less.

That skill eliminates all my chances. I can simply stop solo pvping now until that skill is nerfed, because every fight ends in laser spam that isnt counterable in real world scenarios for me.

Is it really worth to have an automatic kill button against the few solo players this game has, who are not NB or MagSorc?

I was asking for common sense and not for your childish attempt to be smart.

I think this play style is what channeled skills in general were meant to counter. Solo players vs more than 1 character. To win should be rare and spectacular. But most of the time you should lose (except of course 1vPotaoes).

Latest update looks like it will help Stam sorcs a bit, but they need more love.

Docmandu · May 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Show some common sense, guys. RD is absurdely strong and counters my entire stam sorc. Just one skill...

I sincerely felt for the guys who stuck with templar through all the hard times. But templar is quite strong now, I just don`t understand why it is so difficult for you to admit that one your skills might be a bit over the top... Oneshot-Silver Shards were also "fun" for some people, but was it good for pvp?

Cyrodiil is all lasers now, with suprise attack spamming nbs inbetween - fun, fun, fun...

So your stam sorc is getting killed by one Templar only using RD???????

Dude, don`t even try that bs on me. I`m a solo player. You will not find 1v1 fights in cyrodiil anymore. Means the ONLY fights I can find are outnumbered. I am no Nightblade and cannot cloak my behind out of uncomfy situations (meaning inc of enemy reinforcements). I cannot spam shield and I cannot spam flash heal.

That means, any fight that occurs will be an uphill battle for me already. I was always able to still win those. With a lot of effort, kiting and foresight. I had a chance, not more, not less.

That skill eliminates all my chances. I can simply stop solo pvping now until that skill is nerfed, because every fight ends in laser spam that isnt counterable in real world scenarios for me.

Is it really worth to have an automatic kill button against the few solo players this game has, who are not NB or MagSorc?

I was asking for common sense and not for your childish attempt to be smart.

But that's actually your own doing, trying to do a playstyle that the game just isn't balanced around... it will work, but it will be an uphill battle, with some classes having more "tools" to pull it off.. stamina sorc isn't one of those.

timidobserver · May 2016

I am against nerfing RD due to PvP QQ. NBs kill much quicker and easier than RD Spam. There are many builds/specs that can ignore RD. I would be in favor of adding some options to deal with it for the specs/builds that are having trouble dealing with it. The new bone shield will probably help with it. I could live with a 1 negative effect removal stam purge for Stam Sorc/DK.

Mojomonkeyman · May 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Show some common sense, guys. RD is absurdely strong and counters my entire stam sorc. Just one skill...

I sincerely felt for the guys who stuck with templar through all the hard times. But templar is quite strong now, I just don`t understand why it is so difficult for you to admit that one your skills might be a bit over the top... Oneshot-Silver Shards were also "fun" for some people, but was it good for pvp?

Cyrodiil is all lasers now, with suprise attack spamming nbs inbetween - fun, fun, fun...

So your stam sorc is getting killed by one Templar only using RD???????

Dude, don`t even try that bs on me. I`m a solo player. You will not find 1v1 fights in cyrodiil anymore. Means the ONLY fights I can find are outnumbered. I am no Nightblade and cannot cloak my behind out of uncomfy situations (meaning inc of enemy reinforcements). I cannot spam shield and I cannot spam flash heal.

That means, any fight that occurs will be an uphill battle for me already. I was always able to still win those. With a lot of effort, kiting and foresight. I had a chance, not more, not less.

That skill eliminates all my chances. I can simply stop solo pvping now until that skill is nerfed, because every fight ends in laser spam that isnt counterable in real world scenarios for me.

Is it really worth to have an automatic kill button against the few solo players this game has, who are not NB or MagSorc?

I was asking for common sense and not for your childish attempt to be smart.

But that's actually your own doing, trying to do a playstyle that the game just isn't balanced around... it will work, but it will be an uphill battle, with some classes having more "tools" to pull it off.. stamina sorc isn't one of those.

Thing is, my playstyle works wonderfully. Just not anymore solely because of how insanely strong jesus beam is - one skill that hardcounters an entire setup that was never fotm, never easy to play to begin with. It hardcounters any build not relying on big spammable flash heals, shields, purge or cloak. Any HP regen build, any hot build wont ever be able to keep up with that kind of sticky damage in real world small scale pvp scenarios. Please think about it.

My question to you guys is, do you really think "op stuff" justifies other "op stuff"? Do you really think we will get a better game that way?

The current output of RD doesnt add anything to the game, it just takes away. Do you really prefer entire playstyles going extinct in favor of keeping jesus beam? Really?

With such a playerbase I don`t wonder anymore about the state of this game`s pvp...

Skitttles · May 2016

If nothing is to be done about RD, at least give it a serious LoS check. Srs...

ZOS_CoriJ · May 2016

This thread is already pushing as a bait discussion, however we are attempting to keep it open due to the more constructive arguments on the topic. Some of the comments here are punchy or off-topic. This is a reminder to keep this thread constructive and civil with responses.

AfkNinja · May 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Show some common sense, guys. RD is absurdely strong and counters my entire stam sorc. Just one skill...

I sincerely felt for the guys who stuck with templar through all the hard times. But templar is quite strong now, I just don`t understand why it is so difficult for you to admit that one your skills might be a bit over the top... Oneshot-Silver Shards were also "fun" for some people, but was it good for pvp?

Cyrodiil is all lasers now, with suprise attack spamming nbs inbetween - fun, fun, fun...

So your stam sorc is getting killed by one Templar only using RD???????

Dude, don`t even try that bs on me. I`m a solo player. You will not find 1v1 fights in cyrodiil anymore. Means the ONLY fights I can find are outnumbered. I am no Nightblade and cannot cloak my behind out of uncomfy situations (meaning inc of enemy reinforcements). I cannot spam shield and I cannot spam flash heal.

That means, any fight that occurs will be an uphill battle for me already. I was always able to still win those. With a lot of effort, kiting and foresight. I had a chance, not more, not less.

That skill eliminates all my chances. I can simply stop solo pvping now until that skill is nerfed, because every fight ends in laser spam that isnt counterable in real world scenarios for me.

Is it really worth to have an automatic kill button against the few solo players this game has, who are not NB or MagSorc?

I was asking for common sense and not for your childish attempt to be smart.

But that's actually your own doing, trying to do a playstyle that the game just isn't balanced around... it will work, but it will be an uphill battle, with some classes having more "tools" to pull it off.. stamina sorc isn't one of those.

Thing is, my playstyle works wonderfully. Just not anymore solely because of how insanely strong jesus beam is - one skill that hardcounters an entire setup that was never fotm, never easy to play to begin with. It hardcounters any build not relying on big spammable flash heals, shields, purge or cloak. Any HP regen build, any hot build wont ever be able to keep up with that kind of sticky damage in real world small scale pvp scenarios. Please think about it.

My question to you guys is, do you really think "op stuff" justifies other "op stuff"? Do you really think we will get a better game that way?

The current output of RD doesnt add anything to the game, it just takes away. Do you really prefer entire playstyles going extinct in favor of keeping jesus beam? Really?

With such a playerbase I don`t wonder anymore about the state of this game`s pvp...

Every build in the game is meant to have counters good sir. Radiant has counters of it's own. It's Rock > Paper > Scissors as intended.

Also your build isn't going extinct, it just has a counter now that you need to play around.

STEVIL · May 2016

With a run time of 2.5 sec and 24k dmg... are we supposed to be wetting ourselves at how OP less than 10k dps is?

Mojomonkeyman · May 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Show some common sense, guys. RD is absurdely strong and counters my entire stam sorc. Just one skill...

I sincerely felt for the guys who stuck with templar through all the hard times. But templar is quite strong now, I just don`t understand why it is so difficult for you to admit that one your skills might be a bit over the top... Oneshot-Silver Shards were also "fun" for some people, but was it good for pvp?

Cyrodiil is all lasers now, with suprise attack spamming nbs inbetween - fun, fun, fun...

So your stam sorc is getting killed by one Templar only using RD???????

Dude, don`t even try that bs on me. I`m a solo player. You will not find 1v1 fights in cyrodiil anymore. Means the ONLY fights I can find are outnumbered. I am no Nightblade and cannot cloak my behind out of uncomfy situations (meaning inc of enemy reinforcements). I cannot spam shield and I cannot spam flash heal.

That means, any fight that occurs will be an uphill battle for me already. I was always able to still win those. With a lot of effort, kiting and foresight. I had a chance, not more, not less.

That skill eliminates all my chances. I can simply stop solo pvping now until that skill is nerfed, because every fight ends in laser spam that isnt counterable in real world scenarios for me.

Is it really worth to have an automatic kill button against the few solo players this game has, who are not NB or MagSorc?

I was asking for common sense and not for your childish attempt to be smart.

But that's actually your own doing, trying to do a playstyle that the game just isn't balanced around... it will work, but it will be an uphill battle, with some classes having more "tools" to pull it off.. stamina sorc isn't one of those.

Thing is, my playstyle works wonderfully. Just not anymore solely because of how insanely strong jesus beam is - one skill that hardcounters an entire setup that was never fotm, never easy to play to begin with. It hardcounters any build not relying on big spammable flash heals, shields, purge or cloak. Any HP regen build, any hot build wont ever be able to keep up with that kind of sticky damage in real world small scale pvp scenarios. Please think about it.

My question to you guys is, do you really think "op stuff" justifies other "op stuff"? Do you really think we will get a better game that way?

The current output of RD doesnt add anything to the game, it just takes away. Do you really prefer entire playstyles going extinct in favor of keeping jesus beam? Really?

With such a playerbase I don`t wonder anymore about the state of this game`s pvp...

Every build in the game is meant to have counters good sir. Radiant has counters of it's own. It's Rock > Paper > Scissors as intended.

Also your build isn't going extinct, it just has a counter now that you need to play around.

You don`t seem to understand that there already is a wide range of counters to anything I do, as I said stamsorc isn`t easy to play solo (no spammable flash heals, no shields and the likes) - RD is a hardcounter, a totally overtuned shutdown.

You cannot play around RD as a solo stam sorc, period. Try it. Go out there solo and tell me how great your counters to RD are working in real life.

Morbash · May 2016

RD should be dodgeable. Every other execute in the game can be dodged. Why is RD the exception?

Minno · May 2016

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

This thread is already pushing as a bait discussion, however we are attempting to keep it open due to the more constructive arguments on the topic. Some of the comments here are punchy or off-topic. This is a reminder to keep this thread constructive and civil with responses.

It would help the conversation if ZOS could reiterate why RD functions the way it does. Maybe explain why this execute differs from other executes and how the combat team envisions DPS templars with how RD fits into that design intent.

I know that @ZOS_GinaBruno mentioned the team is OK with this DMG. But maybe they can chime in confirming that they indeed left a counter via gear/builds? The community already knows about the skill based counters.Just some thoughts!

KenaPKK · May 2016

Minno wrote: »

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

This thread is already pushing as a bait discussion, however we are attempting to keep it open due to the more constructive arguments on the topic. Some of the comments here are punchy or off-topic. This is a reminder to keep this thread constructive and civil with responses.

It would help the conversation if ZOS could reiterate why RD functions the way it does. Maybe explain why this execute differs from other executes and how the combat team envisions DPS templars with how RD fits into that design intent.

I know that @ZOS_GinaBruno mentioned the team is OK with this DMG. But maybe they can chime in confirming that they indeed left a counter via gear/builds? The community already knows about the skill based counters.Just some thoughts!

I agree that this would be helpful simply because it would start a conversation about the skill.

The community won't be satisfied with them reiterating why they think it's balanced, though. The opinions and impressions of the many many players is that the skill isn't balanced for one reason or another, regardless of what ZOS says. Dev teams don't bestow balance on a skill with words. The balance of the skill is determined by play testing with player feedback, and regardless of what the templar forum zerg says, the mere fact that there is this much controversy over RD indicates that something is off and in need of adjustment. No other skill in the game creates this much frustration (that I've seen).

Kattemynte · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

hehehe

Well, seeing how there were at least 2 people attacking you I would say you never even tried to fight. (Otherwise the second person would have used other skills as well).

Minno · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

This thread is already pushing as a bait discussion, however we are attempting to keep it open due to the more constructive arguments on the topic. Some of the comments here are punchy or off-topic. This is a reminder to keep this thread constructive and civil with responses.

It would help the conversation if ZOS could reiterate why RD functions the way it does. Maybe explain why this execute differs from other executes and how the combat team envisions DPS templars with how RD fits into that design intent.

I know that @ZOS_GinaBruno mentioned the team is OK with this DMG. But maybe they can chime in confirming that they indeed left a counter via gear/builds? The community already knows about the skill based counters.Just some thoughts!

I agree that this would be helpful simply because it would start a conversation about the skill.

The community won't be satisfied with them reiterating why they think it's balanced, though. The opinions and impressions of the many many players is that the skill isn't balanced for one reason or another, regardless of what ZOS says. Dev teams don't bestow balance on a skill with words. The balance of the skill is determined by play testing with player feedback, and regardless of what the templar forum zerg says, the mere fact that there is this much controversy over RD indicates that something is off and in need of adjustment. No other skill in the game creates this much frustration (that I've seen).

We need a starting point.

There were plenty of skills that are "ZOS approved-player hated" that we called for review. But they are still here and have now built for. Like NB stealth AC combos, meteor non-reflects, WB spam, etc.

Either way have to respect the developers vision because we are buying their product and their communication has been better this patch.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch · May 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

I agree that this would be helpful simply because it would start a conversation about the skill.

The community won't be satisfied with them reiterating why they think it's balanced, though. The opinions and impressions of the many many players is that the skill isn't balanced for one reason or another, regardless of what ZOS says. Dev teams don't bestow balance on a skill with words. The balance of the skill is determined by play testing with player feedback, and regardless of what the templar forum zerg says, the mere fact that there is this much controversy over RD indicates that something is off and in need of adjustment. No other skill in the game creates this much frustration (that I've seen).

What community are you referring to? The opinions are split, either you find it balanced or you don't. For one reason or another is just a sweet way of saying, "grasping for straws here" cause there is NO empirical evidence to support it is over performing. Players have tried and each time scrutinizing their claims has won out. Often times with hilarious results shown to be nothing more than disingenuous intentions or misrepresented data from the author. Yeah "something" is off but it's clear you don't know what cause that magic bullet for your argument doesn't exist.

Controversy over this ability is minimal. It's more like well I died to a Templar hitting me with JB, I need to bio break while I run to the forums to make another post about it. Yeah the frustration must be real cause you've created several new threads on the subject in the span of a few days.

*cough* balanced *cough*

cough balanced cough