*cough* balanced *cough*

Ampnode

STEVIL wrote: »

block, cloak, interrupt... yes, we agree.

Damn, wish I could afford to block multiple RDs.

Damn, wish my DK or my sorc had a cloak, or that my NBs cloak didn't break all the time.

Damn, wish I always slotted a bow/destro staff to interrupt.
(or)
Damn, wish I didn't have to play pinball with templars going back 'n' forth bashing.

lolo_01b16_ESO

KenaPKK wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

If I post a death recap where I take the same amount of damage over the same time from a nb skill, will you then stop crying?

Do you agree that RD -- an execute -- should be able to kill you 100-0 in half the time that it takes other executes to do so?

I'm pretty sure you can do it with other executes aswell. I did a rough test a few days ago and with similar weapon / spell damage and magicka / stamina, outside execute range animation canceled instant executes like executioner or assassins blade were higher dps. In execute range rd did slightly more damage. I did it without cp on a medicore build, so it might be slightly different on on high damage builds as not everything scales in the same way, but in general it's close.
So why don't we see people using executioner at 100% hp that often? Because you can easiely dodge it.

KenaPKK

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

If I post a death recap where I take the same amount of damage over the same time from a nb skill, will you then stop crying?

Do you agree that RD -- an execute -- should be able to kill you 100-0 in half the time that it takes other executes to do so?

I'm pretty sure you can do it with other executes aswell. I did a rough test a few days ago and with similar weapon / spell damage and magicka / stamina, outside execute range animation canceled instant executes like executioner or assassins blade were higher dps. In execute range rd did slightly more damage. I did it without cp on a medicore build, so it might be slightly different on on high damage builds as not everything scales in the same way, but in general it's close.
So why don't we see people using executioner at 100% hp that often? Because you can easiely dodge it.

WTB dodgeable radiant?

Rune_Relic

I dont have a the problem with a powerful execute.
Its the ability to counter something so powerful should be relatively easy.
LoS needs to be 'constantly' checked with a channel and 100% working.

Option 1 - dodgable, ie avoidable by everyone.
Option 2 - gap closer range only, to ensure its interruptible by everyone.

ginoboehm

the range has to be reduced and i would suggest that radiant should give no increased damage if you start it before execute and the target slips into execute while you channel it. it should only increase in damage if the first tick was on a target already in execute range.

Docmandu

Only thing that needs tweaking (with ALL executes) is that you should be penalized if you use them outside of execute range. Thing with RD is that there's people that build their character with solely RD in mind and use nothing but RD, on 100% health targets... and.. it's effective if there's other people around, as they will all follow the beam and get that person within execute range pretty quickly.

Same can be done with most executes, but other people won't see it, so there's less gang banging up on a target.

Either way.. the damage is fine.. just make executes heal or put a damage shield on a target you hit that is above the execute boundary... maybe even make the shield strength scale with how far the target is outside of execute range.


I'll leave posting pictures of lowby characters with no resists and no gear being executed by the other executes to other people.

Destruent

ginoboehm wrote: »

the range has to be reduced and i would suggest that radiant should give no increased damage if you start it before execute and the target slips into execute while you channel it. it should only increase in damage if the first tick was on a target already in execute range.

If this is the case you will NEVER survive radiant if you have low health and get healed. Better be happy, that it is not scaling the way you want it to.

Docmandu wrote: »

Only thing that needs tweaking (with ALL executes) is that you should be penalized if you use them outside of execute range. Thing with RD is that there's people that build their character with solely RD in mind and use nothing but RD, on 100% health targets... and.. it's effective if there's other people around, as they will all follow the beam and get that person within execute range pretty quickly.

It penalizes you with low DPS (compared to other spam abilitise like jabs/dark flare). And as you already said...it's effective because OTHER people will bring the target into execute range. So it seems like the problem are the other people and not radiant itself. But then you will die anyways if you are on low health...

ginoboehm

Destruent wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

the range has to be reduced and i would suggest that radiant should give no increased damage if you start it before execute and the target slips into execute while you channel it. it should only increase in damage if the first tick was on a target already in execute range.

If this is the case you will NEVER survive radiant if you have low health and get healed. Better be happy, that it is not scaling the way you want it to.

Docmandu wrote: »

Only thing that needs tweaking (with ALL executes) is that you should be penalized if you use them outside of execute range. Thing with RD is that there's people that build their character with solely RD in mind and use nothing but RD, on 100% health targets... and.. it's effective if there's other people around, as they will all follow the beam and get that person within execute range pretty quickly.

It penalizes you with low DPS (compared to other spam abilitise like jabs/dark flare). And as you already said...it's effective because OTHER people will bring the target into execute range. So it seems like the problem are the other people and not radiant itself. But then you will die anyways if you are on low health...

it should exactly behave like it does now as long as the first tick was in execute range. nothing should change there. there should only be a new function that checks if the first tick was outside of execute range consequent ticks will not give increased damage even if the target went into execute in the mean time. now in Xvs1 scenarios one templar will put a beam on you and another player will hit you and get you into execute range which will get you killed by the beam although the beam started with you having full health. the execute should recalculate the damage normally with every tick if you start it in execute range. (for example it will tick low if you got healed ut of execute range in between beam ticks )

Destruent

so in fact you say, radiant should only scale its damage downwards, not upwards after you started casting it. Sure...and this change only bc you got outnumbered....
Sry, but better complain about NBs zergbombing with VD/Proxy/tether than about templars getting single kills in a Xv1 situation...

LizardThixvim

Just change the damage scaling from 50% as it is now to 30%

ginoboehm

Destruent wrote: »

so in fact you say, radiant should only scale its damage downwards, not upwards after you started casting it. Sure...and this change only bc you got outnumbered....
Sry, but better complain about NBs zergbombing with VD/Proxy/tether than about templars getting single kills in a Xv1 situation...

i play a templar too. no it should scale upwards exactly like it does now. not sure how you still not understand me. it should just not scale upwards if your first tick (the one when you actually start the beam) is hitting the enemy when the enemy was not in execute range. Like that:
You start at 90% health enemy gets hit and falls to 35% health -> no execute ticks will happen.
you start at 35% -> normal execute ticks will happen.

Destruent

ginoboehm wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

so in fact you say, radiant should only scale its damage downwards, not upwards after you started casting it. Sure...and this change only bc you got outnumbered....
Sry, but better complain about NBs zergbombing with VD/Proxy/tether than about templars getting single kills in a Xv1 situation...

i play a templar too. no it should scale upwards exactly like it does now. not sure how you still not understand me. it should just not scale upwards if your first tick (the one when you actually start the beam) is hitting the enemy when the enemy was not in execute range. Like that:
You start at 90% health enemy gets hit and falls to 35% health -> no execute ticks will happen.
you start at 35% -> normal execute ticks will happen.

hm...k...doesn't sound that bad tbh ^^
It also wouldn't effect PvE and most PvP-templars at all

Kas

KenaPKK wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

hehehe

Way to just stand there and get hit with 24K damage...

Wasn't me, but that's beside the point m8

Kas wrote: »

dunno what i expected when i saw your username. within 8.2 seconds, he couldv'e probably light-attacked him to death.
better ask for something extra on more nb skills

This thread isn't about NB.

like all of your threads, this one is full of hyperbole and a bias towards NBs that has completely gotten out of hand. The nerf threads are just as ridiculous as those asking for further NB buffs

Roymachine

KenaPKK wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Ampnode wrote: »

ZOS stated they're happy with the current state of RD, which clearly means you need to learn to play against an undodgeable, long range, CP double-dipping execute.

/s

block, cloak, interrupt... yes, we agree.

block: you lose stam standing still while the templar and friends beat you to death

cloak: you get detected by something or come out of cloak on your own and he begins a new channel...as his friends beat on you and you can't get to him

interrupt: what if he is shooting from outside of gap closer range?

My goodness the theorycrafting is real here. We could go back and forth all day on these and get nowhere.

Block: you are getting hit by a bunch of people at once? Hope you have friends or enjoy dying to superior numbers. No problems here.

Cloak: Same thing here really. Keep your health up above 50%. Probably the best defense against RD is a heal.

Interrupt: Run the other way? RD has a max range too and it isn't much longer then your gap closer. Or just move the equivalent of melee range closer to him. RD doesn't slow you, but it does slow the Templar.

ManDraKE

Nifty2g wrote: »

The damage on RD is completely fine for how many counters it has, and also being snared while casting it and having mobility stripped away makes up for the damage.

Yeah, you can dodge roll it and done......oh wait

STEVIL

KenaPKK wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Venom arrow or crushing shock.

Begins channeling another radiant...while his friends beat you down.

Also should everyone have to run bow or destro staff, with destroy being one of the poorest weapon lines for PvP? That doesn't sound like build diversity to me!

I do not think having RD range reduced to that of gap closer range or lower is so bad. The idea was originally given to me by a magplar main too.

I love how op the rd is when the counter counter argument is "then his friends..."

New definition of overpowered: when outnumbered, this may be able to kill me.

Sigh!

Ok news flash people, in most all those one v many kung fu action theater movies where one took on many, they were many mooks, like average pve mobs, not many other pc.

susmitds

@Wrobel

KenaPKK

STEVIL wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Venom arrow or crushing shock.

Begins channeling another radiant...while his friends beat you down.

Also should everyone have to run bow or destro staff, with destroy being one of the poorest weapon lines for PvP? That doesn't sound like build diversity to me!

I do not think having RD range reduced to that of gap closer range or lower is so bad. The idea was originally given to me by a magplar main too.

I love how op the rd is when the counter counter argument is "then his friends..."

New definition of overpowered: when outnumbered, this may be able to kill me.

Sigh!

Ok news flash people, in most all those one v many kung fu action theater movies where one took on many, they were many mooks, like average pve mobs, not many other pc.

Combat happens group v group in this game. You can't balance an open world AvAvA around duels.

Nifty2g

i don't even think OP has came up with any ideas in what to balance and how to balance it, just a random bait thread?

KenaPKK

Nifty2g wrote: »

i don't even think OP has came up with any ideas in what to balance and how to balance it, just a random bait thread?

Those are in other threads on the same subject. I've suggested reducing the range of the ability, reducing its execute range, and making it dodgeable again. My favorite suggestion is to reduce the range to within gap closer range. My concern is mainly with melee characters' inability to get onto the templar to stop them from beam spamming.

KenaPKK

Kas wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

hehehe

Way to just stand there and get hit with 24K damage...

Wasn't me, but that's beside the point m8

Kas wrote: »

dunno what i expected when i saw your username. within 8.2 seconds, he couldv'e probably light-attacked him to death.
better ask for something extra on more nb skills

This thread isn't about NB.

like all of your threads, this one is full of hyperbole and a bias towards NBs that has completely gotten out of hand. The nerf threads are just as ridiculous as those asking for further NB buffs

This thread isn't about nightblades... Where are you even getting this from? You sound more jaded than you oddly accuse me of being. haha

Sallington

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Kena, I've beaten down every single one of your attempts thus far because you're unable to actually come up with strong evidence and/or a strong argument. At this point, I'll let others tell you how wrong you are

Funny how there are more and more agreements as time goes on.

And I don't see how "radiant should need to be cast within gap closer range so that melee classes have an opportunity to reach the templar" is so irrational. When radiant is cast from far away, the risk that the skill is supposed to put the templar under is simply not present. You're repeating the same abstract accusations instead of actually reading the argument and looking at it outside of your biased magplar perspective.

It's always the same argument. "I got kill by Rd while 1 v Xing. ZOS, this is so unbalanced and sooooooo unacceptable."

willymchilybily

to be fair radiant for me atm is so bad im thinking of double bar'ing cloak

oibam

@KenaPKK

The more nerf threads you create, the sooner Zenimax will nerf RD.

But wouldn't i t be better if you cry 1000 times for an "I-WIN-BUTTON"? Zenimax will give you that.

myrrrorb14_ESO

maxjapank wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Yes because the only change it had to it before it became OP was that they brought back you couldn't dodge it.
Before that people used it properly.

Before that, people didn't use it at all. That whole time it was bugged and dodgeable, you never saw it it pvp. Never.

I destroyed Templars when it was broken in IC. It marks them as easy targets.

Sublime

KenaPKK wrote: »

Those are in other threads on the same subject.

Ever heard of consolidating feedback?

KenaPKK

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Yes because the only change it had to it before it became OP was that they brought back you couldn't dodge it.
Before that people used it properly.

Before that, people didn't use it at all. That whole time it was bugged and dodgeable, you never saw it it pvp. Never.

I destroyed Templars when it was broken in IC. It marks them as easy targets.

IC is close quarters. They aren't such easy targets at upwards of 40m all buffed up across a field in Cyrodiil.

GoodOlPinkly

I love how this thread is literally about not being able to 1vX templars, that makes them OP. Lololol

KenaPKK

GoodOlPinkly wrote: »

I love how this thread is literally about not being able to 1vX templars, that makes them OP. Lololol

Entirely not what I said. I do not struggle to 1vX Templars. Read again pls.

Nifty2g

KenaPKK wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

i don't even think OP has came up with any ideas in what to balance and how to balance it, just a random bait thread?

Those are in other threads on the same subject. I've suggested reducing the range of the ability, reducing its execute range, and making it dodgeable again. My favorite suggestion is to reduce the range to within gap closer range. My concern is mainly with melee characters' inability to get onto the templar to stop them from beam spamming.

I'll tell you why these are not the greatest idea.

Reducing the range: That doesn't make sense, I'd like snipe to be reduced in range of my gap closer so I can counter it.

Reducing the execute range: It's been adjusted about 5 times now, it's at a good spot, the execute range kicks in at 25%, the damage amp kicks in at 40%, please read the tooltips, 40% is not execute damage, 25% is.

This is like saying my concern with snipe is melee characters inability to get to them, because play style 1 can't counter play style 2 effectively doesn't mean it should be adjusted at all.

Being made dodgeable I like the idea of it and it seems like the smartest action to take rather than the other 2