Why is the content so easy?

Ep1kMalware

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

I avoided weighing in to much on this topic last month as I was still focused mostly on crafting and working on master angler and had done few dungeons. Now I have done many more (though still focus a lot on fishing as well only a couple zones away from the title.) and feel I have a basis to speak from with a well rounded and thought out answer in several points.

1. Veteran players will always find content to become easier and easier for them that is just how things are. Once you know the mechanics of a boss and how to defeat it that boss will forever more be far easier to you then when you were learning the mechanics. You cannot complain something it to easy for you after you have learned how to defeat it when newer players still have to do that same learning. Constantly cranking up the difficulty of things for the vet players would leave newer players so far behind the learning curve they could never catch up.

2. While I do not agree with things being nerfed to such a degree, in an MMO there does have to be a balance of difficulty where the vast majority of players are capable of completing content, leaving content so only the elite few can complete it causes a divide in the community. However nerfing things to far also causes issues with people then not learning how to handle harder content and needing more and more things nerfed. There is a very fine line of balance for that. That line is always going to favor the newer players because the game will not grow without bringing in more and more new players.

3. Please stop with the comparisons to WOW, or any other game out there. If you think they are so much better go play them, I do not want to see this wonderful game end up just another crappy WOW or SWTOR clone. This game is unique in that it has so many options for both solo or group content. Removing those options to focus on forced group content like what much of late game WOW is would drive away many of us us who love the TES like aspects of soloing and having this be a TES game we can play with friends and group up with them when we wish to but also be able to play solo when not in the mood to group. It is a good mix that traditional MMO's do not have for the most part.

4. No MMO traditional or not should contain content only the elite top few percent can complete and get rewards that are unique from. Should ZOS choose to add elite versions of the dungeons and trials they should contain the same drops and the same drop rates as the normal veteran ones and just be an option for those who want the challenge. Your desire to have a challenge should not mean you get special drop rates or special gear that 95% of the other players do not have access to. Let's face facts the vast majority of players have like myself have jobs and real life responsibilities that mean we cannot play unlimited hours to memorize every little mechanic for every level of challenge. I like a challenge but I do not like the idea of something i will never have the time to learn because it is so difficult only the elite few or those with unlimited play time to learn the mechanics can do it.

;
You just said the game gets easy once you learn the mechanics, and that onlg elite few players can somehow do this.

hate to break it tk you dude, but ad long as you have 2 functioning braincells you can complete any dungeon in this game without many issues.

problem I see with what r]this guy is saying, is he takes on the attitude of 'oops, I died, guess it's only for elitests to figure out'. then comes and demands nerfs. Dude, I have a job, and studies. I don't get to play much, that doesn't stop me from using my goddamned brain. The cool thing about games is, sometimes you loose. don't like it? too much effort you don't want to put in? go play something else.

If it's too much work to try, then it may not bd ,meant for you. There's no harm in that, but there is harm in wanting it damaged for everyone else. what's worse is, once you destroy the content for everybody because of your own lack of ambition, you think you'll be satisfied? Of course not, so you got content nerfed and even yoh=u're not happy about it.

I guess everyone just *** wins don't they?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

You could try to, you know, reset all your Champion points and not spend a single one. Just leave them open without allocating a single one.

why is this the first nonsense people say? You know, if it's too hard for you, you could just not [play? Minecraft is there.

Problem with them is that the people wanting the difficulty braindead easy are the ones that wants everything handed to them for free and not have to put in any work at all for it. Soon we'll see them demand a fully levelled character with all the best gear fully upgraded and all just so that they don't have to do anything themselves and just let ZoS play the game for them......

I like braindead easy content. That's why we have dungeons, quests, and the ENTIRE map of tamriel. I just do want stuff I have to think about . I guess thinking = too hard OP content.

Well, you can go through all the original zones spamming 1-2 buttons and you'll be fine, I mean I was levelling a NB in the nerfed down content and I have 2 skills I actually use, the rest are on my bar to get levelled, lol. You don't even need to think about moving out of a red circle or blocking/dodging a heavy hitting attack these days as it just doesn't hurt. That's why when people actually get to the vet dungeons etc they suck as they just haven't learned half the stuff you need to do to succeed. I've had people that doesn't even know you can block or dodge roll and they were vr1+

I blow peoples minds when I dodgeroll attks and shieldbash channeling abilities. There's no ridk of dying outsidd group activities.

Yep, that's exactly what I mean. You basically can't die unless you go afk on 99% of the open world stuff solo. Only things I can understand people dying on are the dlc worldbosses. Not the non-dlc ones though, they're a complete joke.

ADarklore

Well, then it appears it's good that they'll be "battle leveling" all the areas once again, so people can stop complaining about how 'easy' content is... even though I still see new players dying even in the Wailing Prison and all questing zones. Not everyone is a good player and ZOS can easily check game data to see how often players are dying and in which content, so it seems to me THEY know more about how 'easy' content is for the majority of players versus players just speculating based upon their own personal skill level. It's like, "well this content is so easy for me, therefore it must be so easy for everyone else" mentality that really irks me... people love to think everyone is or should be exactly like them when the reality is people are all different with all different sets of skill levels, intellect, physical impairments, etc. A game has to be created with ALL people in mind, not just YOU and YOUR abilities.

Ep1kMalware

ADarklore wrote: »

Well, then it appears it's good that they'll be "battle leveling" all the areas once again, so people can stop complaining about how 'easy' content is... even though I still see new players dying even in the Wailing Prison and all questing zones. Not everyone is a good player and ZOS can easily check game data to see how often players are dying and in which content, so it seems to me THEY know more about how 'easy' content is for the majority of players versus players just speculating based upon their own personal skill level. It's like, "well this content is so easy for me, therefore it must be so easy for everyone else" mentality that really irks me... people love to think everyone is or should be exactly like them when the reality is people are all different with all different sets of skill levels, intellect, physical impairments, etc. A game has to be created with ALL people in mind, not just YOU and YOUR abilities.

games don't have to be created for all, or anyone. games are what they are. Not calling you out, as I don't know your intent, but the aspect of it MUST BE FOR EVERYONE is part of the entitlement people have been ragimg about. Eso shouldn't be for anyone except eso players. Half the troubles people have seem to be from a fixable lack of knowledge, not genuinely difficult content.

ADarklore

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Well, then it appears it's good that they'll be "battle leveling" all the areas once again, so people can stop complaining about how 'easy' content is... even though I still see new players dying even in the Wailing Prison and all questing zones. Not everyone is a good player and ZOS can easily check game data to see how often players are dying and in which content, so it seems to me THEY know more about how 'easy' content is for the majority of players versus players just speculating based upon their own personal skill level. It's like, "well this content is so easy for me, therefore it must be so easy for everyone else" mentality that really irks me... people love to think everyone is or should be exactly like them when the reality is people are all different with all different sets of skill levels, intellect, physical impairments, etc. A game has to be created with ALL people in mind, not just YOU and YOUR abilities.

games don't have to be created for all, or anyone. games are what they are. Not calling you out, as I don't know your intent, but the aspect of it MUST BE FOR EVERYONE is part of the entitlement people have been ragimg about. Eso shouldn't be for anyone except eso players. Half the troubles people have seem to be from a fixable lack of knowledge, not genuinely difficult content.

Apparently you forget that games are made to MAKE MONEY, and games make money by appealing to ALL PEOPLE... to encourage the most population. Not appealing to all people means the game has limited appeal which means limited income which equates to limited shelf life.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

ADarklore wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Well, then it appears it's good that they'll be "battle leveling" all the areas once again, so people can stop complaining about how 'easy' content is... even though I still see new players dying even in the Wailing Prison and all questing zones. Not everyone is a good player and ZOS can easily check game data to see how often players are dying and in which content, so it seems to me THEY know more about how 'easy' content is for the majority of players versus players just speculating based upon their own personal skill level. It's like, "well this content is so easy for me, therefore it must be so easy for everyone else" mentality that really irks me... people love to think everyone is or should be exactly like them when the reality is people are all different with all different sets of skill levels, intellect, physical impairments, etc. A game has to be created with ALL people in mind, not just YOU and YOUR abilities.

games don't have to be created for all, or anyone. games are what they are. Not calling you out, as I don't know your intent, but the aspect of it MUST BE FOR EVERYONE is part of the entitlement people have been ragimg about. Eso shouldn't be for anyone except eso players. Half the troubles people have seem to be from a fixable lack of knowledge, not genuinely difficult content.

Apparently you forget that games are made to MAKE MONEY, and games make money by appealing to ALL PEOPLE... to encourage the most population. Not appealing to all people means the game has limited appeal which means limited income which equates to limited shelf life.

They can also make the game more appealing to everyone by teaching them how to play the game instead of them just nerfing everything because people can't play the game..... There's tons of things they can do to help teach them to block, roll dodge etc, but they chose the easy way out.

martinhpb16_ESO

Tavore1138 wrote: »

It has to be easy because if it was really really tough and took months to complete for only the top players who then got a well fitted belt of the set they did not want then they might snap and go on a serial killing spree that would end up in negative press for ZOS... and that's just one possible scenario... others could quite literally lead to global war. So just be careful what you ask for....

cant it be both?

martinhpb16_ESO

ADarklore wrote: »

Apparently you forget that games are made to MAKE MONEY, and games make money by appealing to ALL PEOPLE... to encourage the most population. Not appealing to all people means the game has limited appeal which means limited income which equates to limited shelf life.

It doesnt appeal to me its too easy, to such an extent its way off the chart.

I think what you are talking about is "accessible", what we have hear is like reading a book with all the big words taken out.

martinhpb16_ESO

The Uninvited wrote: »

https://youtu.be/vlv6BrrxD_4

THIS ^^^^^^^^

kylewwefan

The game is way better now than it was. And it will be way better with one tamriel. The battle leveling works as intended and tweaks are making it much better. If you need a challenge that bad, go run around open world naked. Normal dungeons should be FUN for everyone. You can set dungeon level to the leaders level and burn through a L10 dungeon helping them out, or random and battle leveled so everyone in group can be included and it's a bit more challenging. Vet dungeons are still quite the challenge for many players...even those that think they're so great and tell everyone how easy things are now SMH.

Destruent

kylewwefan wrote: »

The game is way better now than it was. And it will be way better with one tamriel. The battle leveling works as intended and tweaks are making it much better. If you need a challenge that bad, go run around open world naked. Normal dungeons should be FUN for everyone. You can set dungeon level to the leaders level and burn through a L10 dungeon helping them out, or random and battle leveled so everyone in group can be included and it's a bit more challenging. Vet dungeons are still quite the challenge for many players...even those that think they're so great and tell everyone how easy things are now SMH.

So everyone should have fun but not those, who mastered or atleast know the basics of the game? nice one!

edit: and btw. if you can do 4-man-content in a group of two/solo it is easy, doesn't matter if you struggle sometimes in a group of 4

Clerics1985

same reason the nightblade is so cheezy, They need to make an Ez-button for their Casuals.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

kylewwefan wrote: »

The game is way better now than it was. And it will be way better with one tamriel. The battle leveling works as intended and tweaks are making it much better. If you need a challenge that bad, go run around open world naked. Normal dungeons should be FUN for everyone. You can set dungeon level to the leaders level and burn through a L10 dungeon helping them out, or random and battle leveled so everyone in group can be included and it's a bit more challenging. Vet dungeons are still quite the challenge for many players...even those that think they're so great and tell everyone how easy things are now SMH.

They're a challenge to many people as they just won't bother to L2P, seriously if you guys want an easy mode watch a movie, I promise you that you won't have to think at all and you will win in the end.

clocksstoppe

If the content is so easy then why do I struggle to find a team that can do vWGT properly?

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

clocksstoppe wrote: »

If the content is so easy then why do I struggle to find a team that can do vWGT properly?

Because the rest of the game is so easy that most people don't even get to learn how to play the game properly and then when there are things that hurt they freak out and die over and over as they just can't play at all. And because of that the players that can play stay away from the newbies as they just can't be bothered to teach every single one of them.

kylewwefan

There is no need to become so toxic after you have mastered one bit of content many struggle with. Try helping the community rather than belittling them.

Dubhliam

sadownik

kylewwefan wrote: »

There is no need to become so toxic after you have mastered one bit of content many struggle with. Try helping the community rather than belittling them.

Why? Seriously, why? Its my time and its limited, very limited in fact and i want to spend it having fun. When i run dungeon i dont want to see players absolutely ignorant about most basic mechanisms in game.

Mind you im mostly Pvp player adn i cant say im especially good at farming pve content - too lazy to grind for pve specific gear to be honest, but at least i know when to move, when to block and when to dodge. Many of the players rolling though 99% of ESO content dont know even that.

Bromburak

Lysette wrote: »

In an interview they stated, that they watch the data closely of how many people are doing the content, how many get through it and how many abandon it. And based on this data they decide about the difficulty of the content

While ignoring every other player that skip the Mickey Mouse PvE content for a reason.

Dubhliam

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

I avoided weighing in to much on this topic last month as I was still focused mostly on crafting and working on master angler and had done few dungeons. Now I have done many more (though still focus a lot on fishing as well only a couple zones away from the title.) and feel I have a basis to speak from with a well rounded and thought out answer in several points.

1. Veteran players will always find content to become easier and easier for them that is just how things are. Once you know the mechanics of a boss and how to defeat it that boss will forever more be far easier to you then when you were learning the mechanics. You cannot complain something it to easy for you after you have learned how to defeat it when newer players still have to do that same learning. Constantly cranking up the difficulty of things for the vet players would leave newer players so far behind the learning curve they could never catch up.

2. While I do not agree with things being nerfed to such a degree, in an MMO there does have to be a balance of difficulty where the vast majority of players are capable of completing content, leaving content so only the elite few can complete it causes a divide in the community. However nerfing things to far also causes issues with people then not learning how to handle harder content and needing more and more things nerfed. There is a very fine line of balance for that. That line is always going to favor the newer players because the game will not grow without bringing in more and more new players.

3. Please stop with the comparisons to WOW, or any other game out there. If you think they are so much better go play them, I do not want to see this wonderful game end up just another crappy WOW or SWTOR clone. This game is unique in that it has so many options for both solo or group content. Removing those options to focus on forced group content like what much of late game WOW is would drive away many of us us who love the TES like aspects of soloing and having this be a TES game we can play with friends and group up with them when we wish to but also be able to play solo when not in the mood to group. It is a good mix that traditional MMO's do not have for the most part.

4. No MMO traditional or not should contain content only the elite top few percent can complete and get rewards that are unique from. Should ZOS choose to add elite versions of the dungeons and trials they should contain the same drops and the same drop rates as the normal veteran ones and just be an option for those who want the challenge. Your desire to have a challenge should not mean you get special drop rates or special gear that 95% of the other players do not have access to. Let's face facts the vast majority of players have like myself have jobs and real life responsibilities that mean we cannot play unlimited hours to memorize every little mechanic for every level of challenge. I like a challenge but I do not like the idea of something i will never have the time to learn because it is so difficult only the elite few or those with unlimited play time to learn the mechanics can do it.

Very well put post, and I agree with most of what you wrote.

The part about same drops in a higher difficulty dungeon is almost exactly the same suggestion I made in another thread where people were suggesting a Nightmare mode.
Nightmare dungeons should be exactly the same as Veteran, only harder. Same loot tables and percentages, with only two differences:
-last boss drops one item of highest quality-Legendary (if there is no set item dropped, one of the normal items is gold)
-Veteran pledges award 2 Gold keys instead of 1 if they are completed in a Nightmare dungeon
The Nightmare mode could be activated one inside the veteran dungeon (before the timer) by interacting with a tome, following a vote-to-upscale for all group members.

MuddledMuppet

I see the biggest problem is that bis gear is only achieved through the hardest content. I appreciate that people want rewards ( although a point could be made that completion of hard content could be reward enough of itself) but the rewards should be polymorphs, new armour styles, mounts, things that scream out 'Look at me I'm awesome!'

Too many good sets are only available from wgt/ICP etc, to say nothing of maelstrom weapons.

Right now, Mr average fights Mr awesome, not only will he get beat, he'll get utterly destroyed, does Mr awesomne really need the skill differential widened?

So Mr average asks for advice, gets told to join the biggest zerg he can, then gets vilified for being a zergling.

I'm all in favour of better players having content I'll never complete, and all in favour of them getting rewarded for it, having to choose between getting annihilated without a chance or running with a zerg is less appealing.

Destruent

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I see the biggest problem is that bis gear is only achieved through the hardest content. I appreciate that people want rewards ( although a point could be made that completion of hard content could be reward enough of itself) but the rewards should be polymorphs, new armour styles, mounts, things that scream out 'Look at me I'm awesome!'

Too many good sets are only available from wgt/ICP etc, to say nothing of maelstrom weapons.

Right now, Mr average fights Mr awesome, not only will he get beat, he'll get utterly destroyed, does Mr awesomne really need the skill differential widened?

So Mr average asks for advice, gets told to join the biggest zerg he can, then gets vilified for being a zergling.

I'm all in favour of better players having content I'll never complete, and all in favour of them getting rewarded for it, having to choose between getting annihilated without a chance or running with a zerg is less appealing.

You can get all those vWGT/ICP-sets in normal mode or by downscaling the dungeons to CP10 and farming the trophys. The only thing which is really hard to get are maelstrome weapons. All other gear is extremely easy (there is RNG, but content is easy) to get.

MuddledMuppet

Destruent wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I see the biggest problem is that bis gear is only achieved through the hardest content. I appreciate that people want rewards ( although a point could be made that completion of hard content could be reward enough of itself) but the rewards should be polymorphs, new armour styles, mounts, things that scream out 'Look at me I'm awesome!'

Too many good sets are only available from wgt/ICP etc, to say nothing of maelstrom weapons.

Right now, Mr average fights Mr awesome, not only will he get beat, he'll get utterly destroyed, does Mr awesomne really need the skill differential widened?

So Mr average asks for advice, gets told to join the biggest zerg he can, then gets vilified for being a zergling.

I'm all in favour of better players having content I'll never complete, and all in favour of them getting rewarded for it, having to choose between getting annihilated without a chance or running with a zerg is less appealing.

You can get all those vWGT/ICP-sets in normal mode or by downscaling the dungeons to CP10 and farming the trophys. The only thing which is really hard to get are maelstrome weapons. All other gear is extremely easy (there is RNG, but content is easy) to get.

Well... ish. Dropped sets will be cp150

Not sure what you mean by downscaling to cp10 and farming trophies, mind explaining?

Destruent

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I see the biggest problem is that bis gear is only achieved through the hardest content. I appreciate that people want rewards ( although a point could be made that completion of hard content could be reward enough of itself) but the rewards should be polymorphs, new armour styles, mounts, things that scream out 'Look at me I'm awesome!'

Too many good sets are only available from wgt/ICP etc, to say nothing of maelstrom weapons.

Right now, Mr average fights Mr awesome, not only will he get beat, he'll get utterly destroyed, does Mr awesomne really need the skill differential widened?

So Mr average asks for advice, gets told to join the biggest zerg he can, then gets vilified for being a zergling.

I'm all in favour of better players having content I'll never complete, and all in favour of them getting rewarded for it, having to choose between getting annihilated without a chance or running with a zerg is less appealing.

You can get all those vWGT/ICP-sets in normal mode or by downscaling the dungeons to CP10 and farming the trophys. The only thing which is really hard to get are maelstrome weapons. All other gear is extremely easy (there is RNG, but content is easy) to get.

Well... ish. Dropped sets will be cp150

Not sure what you mean by downscaling to cp10 and farming trophies, mind explaining?

The difference between CP150 and CP160 gear is really small, it only matters for min/maxing. If you don't care about it, CP150 is more than fine.

Get someone with 10CP and give him lead, then port into vWGT/vICP and all the mobs will be CP10. You can now farm the trophys from bosses easily and will get CP160 equip from trophy-vaults.

MuddledMuppet

Destruent wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I see the biggest problem is that bis gear is only achieved through the hardest content. I appreciate that people want rewards ( although a point could be made that completion of hard content could be reward enough of itself) but the rewards should be polymorphs, new armour styles, mounts, things that scream out 'Look at me I'm awesome!'

Too many good sets are only available from wgt/ICP etc, to say nothing of maelstrom weapons.

Right now, Mr average fights Mr awesome, not only will he get beat, he'll get utterly destroyed, does Mr awesomne really need the skill differential widened?

So Mr average asks for advice, gets told to join the biggest zerg he can, then gets vilified for being a zergling.

I'm all in favour of better players having content I'll never complete, and all in favour of them getting rewarded for it, having to choose between getting annihilated without a chance or running with a zerg is less appealing.

You can get all those vWGT/ICP-sets in normal mode or by downscaling the dungeons to CP10 and farming the trophys. The only thing which is really hard to get are maelstrome weapons. All other gear is extremely easy (there is RNG, but content is easy) to get.

Well... ish. Dropped sets will be cp150

Not sure what you mean by downscaling to cp10 and farming trophies, mind explaining?

The difference between CP150 and CP160 gear is really small, it only matters for min/maxing. If you don't care about it, CP150 is more than fine.

Get someone with 10CP and give him lead, then port into vWGT/vICP and all the mobs will be CP10. You can now farm the trophys from bosses easily and will get CP160 equip from trophy-vaults.

Ah, thought that's what you meant. I don't know anyone of cp10, or under 160, and obviously once one character is 160 they all are. Do-able under vet system, less so now I think.

As to the smaller difference, it's the less skilled players who NEED to main/Max, not the ones whose skills alloiw them to cut a few corners.

Destruent

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I see the biggest problem is that bis gear is only achieved through the hardest content. I appreciate that people want rewards ( although a point could be made that completion of hard content could be reward enough of itself) but the rewards should be polymorphs, new armour styles, mounts, things that scream out 'Look at me I'm awesome!'

Too many good sets are only available from wgt/ICP etc, to say nothing of maelstrom weapons.

Right now, Mr average fights Mr awesome, not only will he get beat, he'll get utterly destroyed, does Mr awesomne really need the skill differential widened?

So Mr average asks for advice, gets told to join the biggest zerg he can, then gets vilified for being a zergling.

I'm all in favour of better players having content I'll never complete, and all in favour of them getting rewarded for it, having to choose between getting annihilated without a chance or running with a zerg is less appealing.

You can get all those vWGT/ICP-sets in normal mode or by downscaling the dungeons to CP10 and farming the trophys. The only thing which is really hard to get are maelstrome weapons. All other gear is extremely easy (there is RNG, but content is easy) to get.

Well... ish. Dropped sets will be cp150

Not sure what you mean by downscaling to cp10 and farming trophies, mind explaining?

The difference between CP150 and CP160 gear is really small, it only matters for min/maxing. If you don't care about it, CP150 is more than fine.

Get someone with 10CP and give him lead, then port into vWGT/vICP and all the mobs will be CP10. You can now farm the trophys from bosses easily and will get CP160 equip from trophy-vaults.

Ah, thought that's what you meant. I don't know anyone of cp10, or under 160, and obviously once one character is 160 they all are. Do-able under vet system, less so now I think.

As to the smaller difference, it's the less skilled players who NEED to main/Max, not the ones whose skills alloiw them to cut a few corners.

The difference between CP150 and CP160 won't make or brake the game...only on weapons (and jewelry) its important to have them at C160 and gold (for weapons).
A CP150 Set will give ~2k maybe 3k less magicka/stamina from enchants and setbonus. The difference in wep/spelldmg is somewhere between 10 and 20. This accounts for 5...7% less stats and somewhere around 2...3% less dps. Assuming you do 30k DPS with this gear, DPS will increase by ~ 1k DPS. I don't think this is extremely huge...Rotation and CP have a far bigger impact.

MuddledMuppet

Destruent wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I see the biggest problem is that bis gear is only achieved through the hardest content. I appreciate that people want rewards ( although a point could be made that completion of hard content could be reward enough of itself) but the rewards should be polymorphs, new armour styles, mounts, things that scream out 'Look at me I'm awesome!'

Too many good sets are only available from wgt/ICP etc, to say nothing of maelstrom weapons.

Right now, Mr average fights Mr awesome, not only will he get beat, he'll get utterly destroyed, does Mr awesomne really need the skill differential widened?

So Mr average asks for advice, gets told to join the biggest zerg he can, then gets vilified for being a zergling.

I'm all in favour of better players having content I'll never complete, and all in favour of them getting rewarded for it, having to choose between getting annihilated without a chance or running with a zerg is less appealing.

You can get all those vWGT/ICP-sets in normal mode or by downscaling the dungeons to CP10 and farming the trophys. The only thing which is really hard to get are maelstrome weapons. All other gear is extremely easy (there is RNG, but content is easy) to get.

Well... ish. Dropped sets will be cp150

Not sure what you mean by downscaling to cp10 and farming trophies, mind explaining?

The difference between CP150 and CP160 gear is really small, it only matters for min/maxing. If you don't care about it, CP150 is more than fine.

Get someone with 10CP and give him lead, then port into vWGT/vICP and all the mobs will be CP10. You can now farm the trophys from bosses easily and will get CP160 equip from trophy-vaults.

Ah, thought that's what you meant. I don't know anyone of cp10, or under 160, and obviously once one character is 160 they all are. Do-able under vet system, less so now I think.

As to the smaller difference, it's the less skilled players who NEED to main/Max, not the ones whose skills alloiw them to cut a few corners.

The difference between CP150 and CP160 won't make or brake the game...only on weapons (and jewelry) its important to have them at C160 and gold (for weapons).
A CP150 Set will give ~2k maybe 3k less magicka/stamina from enchants and setbonus. The difference in wep/spelldmg is somewhere between 10 and 20. This accounts for 5...7% less stats and somewhere around 2...3% less dps. Assuming you do 30k DPS with this gear, DPS will increase by ~ 1k DPS. I don't think this is extremely huge...Rotation and CP have a far bigger impact.

Yeah don't get me wrong and I appreciate the validity of what you're saying, but...

I still believe that anything that widens the skill differential is a bad thing.

Let's just assume you are a more skilled player than me, would you need better gear to face me? When athletes win a gold medal, they don't also get a 1 metre headstart in subsequent races. The medal is enough. In the earliest Olympics, athletes would kill for the laurels, not because it gave an advantage, but because it symbolised there were the best.

I'm content to lost the better players have their laurels, less content to give them a 1 metre head start, and if I was the better player, I wouldn't want it.

Don't get me wrong BTW I was number one on PvP leaderboard briefly, I'm not exactly a noob, but let's just say 'differently skilled'

Anyhoo we'll probably just have to respectfully disagree here I think.

Destruent

The most important question is, what you are going ro do. For normal pvp (i rly suck there ^^) i only run around in purple gear and wouldn't mind my equip being CP150, bc i know most people on my skillevel don't run around in perfect gear.
But i also play pve-trials in a progress-group where i want to have all of my equipment in CP160 and golden bc i know, i compete against equally skilled players. Against better players, those high end equip wouldn't help me in any way.

I think i got what you tried to say, but the less DPS (or hps or whatever) you do the less impact perfect gear has, bc you always get percentage increases. Lower those 30k DPS to 20k for example. Your V16-gear will now giv you some awesome extra 600 DPS...this on't help you in any way. Timing of abilities, kepping up buffs and playing your rotation therefore can amp up your DPS by ~10k (no proved number...but i gues it's somewhat realistic).

Dubhliam

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I see the biggest problem is that bis gear is only achieved through the hardest content. I appreciate that people want rewards ( although a point could be made that completion of hard content could be reward enough of itself) but the rewards should be polymorphs, new armour styles, mounts, things that scream out 'Look at me I'm awesome!'

Too many good sets are only available from wgt/ICP etc, to say nothing of maelstrom weapons.

Right now, Mr average fights Mr awesome, not only will he get beat, he'll get utterly destroyed, does Mr awesomne really need the skill differential widened?

So Mr average asks for advice, gets told to join the biggest zerg he can, then gets vilified for being a zergling.

I'm all in favour of better players having content I'll never complete, and all in favour of them getting rewarded for it, having to choose between getting annihilated without a chance or running with a zerg is less appealing.

There is no room for PvP in this discussion about difficulty.
PvP "difficulty" is not something ZOS can affect. It is a sum of your skill and investment in the game compared to the same sum of other players.
Those players worked hard to learn and beat the hard content so that they can gain a slight advantage over other players.
Why would you want to belittle their efforts? Does their time have lower value than your own?

That being said, if we talk purely about PvE, what do you need BiS gear for if you can't/don't want to complete hard content?
You want to have a full set of Scathing Mage so you can have an easier time in Wayrest Sewers?

Logic.

MuddledMuppet

Dubhliam wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

I see the biggest problem is that bis gear is only achieved through the hardest content. I appreciate that people want rewards ( although a point could be made that completion of hard content could be reward enough of itself) but the rewards should be polymorphs, new armour styles, mounts, things that scream out 'Look at me I'm awesome!'

Too many good sets are only available from wgt/ICP etc, to say nothing of maelstrom weapons.

Right now, Mr average fights Mr awesome, not only will he get beat, he'll get utterly destroyed, does Mr awesomne really need the skill differential widened?

So Mr average asks for advice, gets told to join the biggest zerg he can, then gets vilified for being a zergling.

I'm all in favour of better players having content I'll never complete, and all in favour of them getting rewarded for it, having to choose between getting annihilated without a chance or running with a zerg is less appealing.

There is no room for PvP in this discussion about difficulty.
PvP "difficulty" is not something ZOS can affect. It is a sum of your skill and investment in the game compared to the same sum of other players.
Those players worked hard to learn and beat the hard content so that they can gain a slight advantage over other players.
Why would you want to belittle their efforts? Does their time have lower value than your own?

That being said, if we talk purely about PvE, what do you need BiS gear for if you can't/don't want to complete hard content?
You want to have a full set of Scathing Mage so you can have an easier time in Wayrest Sewers?

Logic.

I actually went out out of my way to say their efforts should be recognised and rewarded, I gave examples of how rewards don't have to be related to gaining an advantage. If you won an Olympic sport would you rather get a gold medal or a headstart the next race?

Logic? Logically correct arguments never require a condescending or aggressive tone.