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Restore Bracing - Never Ask for Buffs
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hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭SublimeSparo wrote: »@DDuke What exactly is the spindleclutch video meant to prove? I can do exactly that on my healer in light armour, and my magicka nb dps, and solo bloodspawn... a tank is not even needed for that whole dungeon so how in any way is this supposed to represent tanking? Make a video of vWGT or vICP at least, or better yet the first trash pull on MoL/ vMoL.
Edit: extra points for an AA axes HM or Manti vid
As mentioned, I posted the video because someone else posted a video where he was permablocking even single trash mobs in Spindleclutch (and then subsequently complaining on the forums about "new players" going to have stamina issues - of course they are if they do the same ridiculous things as this person in the video.
Block what you have to block only.
And vMoL trash probably falls into the category of "this is where you have to block".GoodOlPinkly wrote: »GoodOlPinkly wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »
In no way are tanks getting nerfed.
And people are still claiming tanks are getting nerfed?
If you think being a tank meant only taping down your right mouse button, you've got bigger problems than block cost being increased.
Yes , it is nerfed in PvE . Because after dungeons got nerfed , only place where tanking matters is trials and in trials you have to block 99% of the time . Only time you drop block is for putting a light attack for Ultimate Regeneration which is less than 0.5 seconds . Nerfing something that matters in something means it is getting nerfed .
I will tell you what block cost increase for a trial tank like me means . Best way to tell is this : imagine your beloved Puncturing Sweeps getting its cost increased by 40-50% . I don't know how I can explain in any other way .
Only the cost wasn't increased 40-50%...you basically pulled that number directly from your ass.
First of all , thanks for your respectful comment . Clearly proves that I made them up . Anyways , I will just put the videos of me tanking in live server and in PTS .
This is the video from live server where you can clearly see ''Drained 479'' every time I successfully block .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93pBXLaiRds
And this is the one from PTS . There is no addon so I just watch the Stamina bar . Most clear time you can see it going down is while I am taking damage from Necromancers in the Watcher boss .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9maBXA5pq0E
I mentioned what I am using in each video in one of the posts above . Only difference is Bracing and increase in the block cost . I am not using any Sturdy in the second video .
Also , I highly recommend learning to discuss things like a normal person .
Sorry, but there's virtually no difference seen in the two videos.
Also, I can see why you're upset about this change - all you do in these videos is hold block (even when nothing is attacking you)
You do know that there's no stamina regeneration while blocking? Also, despite how scary they are, a single trash mob in Spindleclutch wont one shot you if you stop blocking for a second (nor does Blood Spawn hit you for more than 20-30% of your health if you decide not to block one of his attacks, but these are advanced tactics
)
1- My build doesn't have any self healing . That is why I am trying to get the least damage I can get and let the Healer do DPS . That is why I am blocking most of the time . I don't have an option like using sweeps to heal myself . Only healing I have is a joke ( Coagulating Blood )
You have a healer, you still don't need to block 24/7. In fact, your health regen alone is more than enough to outheal a single trash mob and holding block does nothing but prevent you from regening stamina (which often in your video is stuck at around 60% due to this).
Also, you clearly have both Coagulating Blood & Igneous Shield on your bar on the videos. You cast one Igneous Shield & it'll take 15 minutes for that lone trash mob to get through it.
Or you know, you can hold block & then complain about stamina.
Your choice.
Also, what exactly is the problem with Coagulating Blood? It's an awesome skill for tanks. Especially in PvE (also one of the few ways of getting Minor Vitality) - pretty much all DK tanks use it.2- I am trying to tell the difference it will make in the trials . I am trying to point the difference in block cost . I still can't understand how you don't see the difference . Addon clearly shows that block costs 479 stamina and other video shows clearly each block costs around 700 . If Constitution gives 9xx every 4 seconds instead of 2xx ; it will make 7xx more stamina every 4 seconds . which results in less than 200 stamina every second . The difference in block cost is more than 200 , which shows that it is not even after the change .
"Around 700". Wow, so precise.
Are you sure it's not "around 600" or "around 500", or do your spider senses allow you to calculate the exact amount by staring at the stamina pool?3- This is probably fourth time I am trying to tell you it is about trials where PvE tanking matters . Also it will affect new players who are trying to tank veteran dungeons where lots of adds going to attack them and Constitution won't do any good in AOE fights . Not everyone can heal themselves with insane amounts with sweeps in AOE fights .
We've had one of the best tanks in the EU megaserver post here and say it's fine and there's not much of a difference, I'll put much more faith in what he has to say than some random tank who permablocks in Spindleclutch.
Also, DK tanks can survive just as easily as Templars by using Igneous, Coagulating & Deep Breath.
You being disingenuous again. The problem here is not tanking a single nameless mob and you know it.
I am talking about the "comparison" videos where he is tanking even the single nameless mobs by holding block, and then complaining about running out of stamina on the forums.
All I'm saying is that you'll want to adapt your playstyles if you run out of stamina.
Block less, use those defensive skills on bar instead, that's the direction these changes are pushing you towards. You may have more stamina problems while blocking multiple enemies, but if you drop that block for a while you'll also regenerate stamina much faster.
That, and those defensive skills are now much stronger after the other changes to heavy armor and you're less suspectible to getting bursted down (you get +5% more health now, which is a pretty big deal).
A whole lot of over-reacting, just like every time something changes about anything related to tanking (whether good or bad).
Did you just took a PvE video and built a argument based on PvP against it?
What's based on PvP? Please elaborate.
I can't really speak for the PVE side of this because I HealTank in PVE, but for PVP this is a huge Nerf if your taking 10 consecutive hits from a semi good player in pvp your either dead, or wasting that extra 200 wep/ spell damage on healing yourself.
How is it "wasting 200 extra wep/spell dmg" if you heal yourself? It's called taking damage and surviving (aka tanking).
If you have enough mitigation and decent health pool, you don't need to worry about blocking attacks.
There comes a time in PvP when you know exactly how much damage each class & each build can deal to you. Then you only block when you know the incoming damage would kill you (or CC you at a bad moment).
@Liofa
Stop saying your build doesn't have any damage or healing abilities when that simply isn't true. You have Igneous & Coagulating on your bar (as clearly proven by the videos you posted).
Besides, who's fault would it be if you didn't slot any survivability skills?
As for "2 healers not being enough", I'd like to see you try and tank vMoL Rakkhat's gatling gun without using any kind of survivability skill.
But that's besides the point: as a tank, any time you get to low health you should use these survivability skills (just like most decent & semi-decent tanks do). Of course you can just stand there holding block & then die while staring at the skills wondering what to do with them. I saw plenty of these "tanks" when I still bothered pugging dungeons.
Oh, and Craglorn trials are a joke (you don't need to block there 90% of time).
Also, does that 0,7k mean precisely 700 stamina for each block, or does it mean 738, 744, maybe even 651 rounded to 700? That is what I mean. It is impossible to theorycraft anything around numbers that are so flexible based on your bias.
My mitigation is near max and yes certain builds can still two- three shot a "Magicka Templar"
If so, I'm yet to meet one. The best burst I've seen takes around 50% of my health pool and that's by really good players and a combination of 3+ skills. If things are 2-3 shotting you, you're not using proper gear/traits.
Well, with the new update we wont be ABLE to use the traits we need to avoid being 2 or 3 shot, now will we? Impen is out the window because we have to sacrifice it for sturdy.
#logic
On what basis? I'll never drop impenetrable on my templar - I'll have zero problems either because I don't block 24/7.
Adjust your playstyle to block less, problem solved.
@DDuke ,
you say: "On what basis? I'll never drop impenetrable on my templar - I'll have zero problems either because I don't block 24/7.
Adjust your playstyle to block less, problem solved"
There are always play-style synergies with a class/Armor/Racial choice.
But there are also synergies for example simply between Class/Armor type.
You focus in most of your posts, in what you write, very much on the play-style alone.
I think the synergy between Templars and HA is in general better (certainly for PVP) than the synergy between HA and all or most other classes.
This great synergy with HA happens also with Templar high Health & high Health Recovery builds.
IF THAT IS SO:
We get the dilemma that HA is not balanced on par with the other Armor types in general,
because HA creates OP effects with just one class: Templars.
And imo as a consequence the Templar-HA synergy has to made smaller coupled to a further buffing of HA.
Getting HA in general on par with LA,MA for many Class/Racial/role/playstyle combinations is more important.
Edited by hrothbern on May 2, 2016 1:26PM"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU5 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Adjust your playstyle to block less, problem solved.
As you yourself admit, some scenarios/situations require more blocking. Not everything is left as a choice to the player.
Fundamentally, the problem is the lack of scaling with Constitution. This leads a spectrum where on one end, the new HA is more powerful than before, on another end, it's considerably weaker than before, and in the middle, we have a range of scenarios where it's about on par with before. Any straight-up buffs will simply shift this spectrum, making HA overpowered in some places.
If Constitution were to be changed such that it's a 4s cooldown per attacker (with an appropriate adjustment of its base value), then it would scale better across this spectrum of scenarios. But I suspect that sort of coding would be too complicated, if not impossible, for the way this game's engine is set up.
And Sturdy isn't that great of a solution. Assuming they fix the multiplicative/additive calculation problem, not everyone will want to give up Infused or Impenetrable or their other favored traits for Sturdy. If Sturdy were to be buffed such that you'd only need a few pieces, then people who do choose to run all-Sturdy would probably have too much block cost reduction.
Personally, I think the best and easiest solution is this: Replace Rapid Mending with Bracing, and make Constitution return more for unblocked hits and less for blocked hits. This lets us keep the status quo for PvE tanking, while enabling more offensive playstyles for HA that the current Constitution+Wrath enables. Oh, and if you do this, you should keep the current multiplicative diminishing returns for Sturdy so that Sturdy won't overbuff block cost reduction for real tank builds that already have lots of block cost reduction, while enabling LA/MA and other "alternative" builds to benefit somewhat.Edited by code65536 on May 2, 2016 1:07PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information9 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally, I think the best and easiest solution is this: Replace Rapid Mending with Bracing, and make Constitution return more for unblocked hits and less for blocked hits. This lets us keep the status quo for PvE tanking, while enabling more offensive playstyles for HA that the current Constitution+Wrath enables.
That's not a bad compromise.3 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Adjust your playstyle to block less, problem solved.
As you yourself admit, some scenarios/situations require more blocking. Not everything is left as a choice to the player.
Fundamentally, the problem is the lack of scaling with Constitution. This leads a spectrum where on one end, the new HA is more powerful than before, on another end, it's considerably weaker than before, and in the middle, we have a range of scenarios where it's about on par with before. Any straight-up buffs will simply shift this spectrum, making HA overpowered in some places.
If Constitution were to be changed such that it's a 4s cooldown per attacker (with an appropriate adjustment of its base value), then it would scale better across this spectrum of scenarios. But I suspect that sort of coding would be too complicated, if not impossible, for the way this game's engine is set up.
And Sturdy isn't that great of a solution. Assuming they fix the multiplicative/additive calculation problem, not everyone will want to give up Infused or Impenetrable or their other favored traits for Sturdy. If Sturdy were to be buffed such that you'd only need a few pieces, then people who do choose to run all-Sturdy would probably have too much block cost reduction.
Personally, I think the best and easiest solution is this: Replace Rapid Mending with Bracing, and make Constitution return more for unblocked hits and less for blocked hits. This lets us keep the status quo for PvE tanking, while enabling more offensive playstyles for HA that the current Constitution+Wrath enables. Oh, and if you do this, you should keep the current multiplicative diminishing returns for Sturdy so that Sturdy won't overbuff block cost reduction for real tank builds that already have lots of block cost reduction, while enabling LA/MA and other "alternative" builds to benefit somewhat.
Thank you Code, for supplying the most sobering View of the debates currently going on1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Adjust your playstyle to block less, problem solved.
As you yourself admit, some scenarios/situations require more blocking. Not everything is left as a choice to the player.
Fundamentally, the problem is the lack of scaling with Constitution. This leads a spectrum where on one end, the new HA is more powerful than before, on another end, it's considerably weaker than before, and in the middle, we have a range of scenarios where it's about on par with before. Any straight-up buffs will simply shift this spectrum, making HA overpowered in some places.
If Constitution were to be changed such that it's a 4s cooldown per attacker (with an appropriate adjustment of its base value), then it would scale better across this spectrum of scenarios. But I suspect that sort of coding would be too complicated, if not impossible, for the way this game's engine is set up.
And Sturdy isn't that great of a solution. Assuming they fix the multiplicative/additive calculation problem, not everyone will want to give up Infused or Impenetrable or their other favored traits for Sturdy. If Sturdy were to be buffed such that you'd only need a few pieces, then people who do choose to run all-Sturdy would probably have too much block cost reduction.
Personally, I think the best and easiest solution is this: Replace Rapid Mending with Bracing, and make Constitution return more for unblocked hits and less for blocked hits. This lets us keep the status quo for PvE tanking, while enabling more offensive playstyles for HA that the current Constitution+Wrath enables. Oh, and if you do this, you should keep the current multiplicative diminishing returns for Sturdy so that Sturdy won't overbuff block cost reduction for real tank builds that already have lots of block cost reduction, while enabling LA/MA and other "alternative" builds to benefit somewhat.
Ok, so having blocking cost 20% more=huge tank nerf (lets forget the other things that got buffed), while getting 8% less healing (blocking or not) is no problem.
I really don't understand the logic here.0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok, so having blocking cost 20% more=huge tank nerf (lets forget the other things that got buffed), while getting 8% less healing (blocking or not) is no problem.
I really don't understand the logic here.
When I die from insufficient healing, it's usually not a matter of "oh, healer's heals are too weak", it's usually a matter of "oh, the healer isn't healing because they're dead or not paying attention to health bars".
Similarly, I don't remorph my Funnel Health for vMA because the things that kill me aren't things that 8% more healing would've saved me from. Running out of stamina to block is much more deadly to a tank than losing a little overhealing.Edited by code65536 on May 2, 2016 4:15PMNightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information8 -
VaxtinTheWolf✭✭✭✭✭I may be the minority but I would like to keep incoming healing. I do use swallow soul as an argonian Nightblade sap tank and was considering trying twilights. Atm he was using seducers while leveling up.|| AD - Rah'Jiin Lv50 Khajiit Nightblade (Damage) || EP - Generic Argonian Lv50 Argonian Nightblade (Tank) || DC - Zinkotsu Lv50 Breton Nightblade (Healer) ||
|| DC - Ja'Kiro Feral-Heart Lv50 Khajiit Dragonknight (Damage) || EP - VaxtinTheWolf Lv50 Redguard Templar (Tank) || AD - Velik Iranis Lv50 Dark Elf Sorcerer (Tank ) ||
|| EP - Einvarg The Frozen Lv50 Nord Warden (Tank/Healer) || EP - Keem-Ja Lv4 Argonian Necromancer (Healer/Tank) ||PC - North American Server (Champion 1300+)3 -
Minsc✭✭✭It seems the feedback for the removal of Bracing had the same fate as the one for the AoE caps in the past. They even nerfed Black Rose. No surprise there...2
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NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Personally, I think the best and easiest solution is this: Replace Rapid Mending with Bracing, and make Constitution return more for unblocked hits and less for blocked hits. This lets us keep the status quo for PvE tanking, while enabling more offensive playstyles for HA that the current Constitution+Wrath enables. Oh, and if you do this, you should keep the current multiplicative diminishing returns for Sturdy so that Sturdy won't overbuff block cost reduction for real tank builds that already have lots of block cost reduction, while enabling LA/MA and other "alternative" builds to benefit somewhat.
That's an excellent idea. 8% extra regen is nice to have, but stacking a little more health or health regen to make up for the change is a small matter for most existing builds. And in the harder content, lack of available healing isn't an issue unless things are going very, very sideways.
Meanwhile HA gets the Wrath buff for solo and PvP content, and new & intermediate tanks aren't being penalized with a huge block cost hurdle to get over when they try to break into tougher content.4 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It seems the feedback for the removal of Bracing had the same fate as the one for the AoE caps in the past. They even nerfed Black Rose. No surprise there...
I think that we can convince @Wrobel to make some further changes. He is a smart guy, doesnt want people to feel crappy, and Im therefore sure that he is open to changing some things based on well thought out feedback.1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It seems the feedback for the removal of Bracing had the same fate as the one for the AoE caps in the past. They even nerfed Black Rose. No surprise there...
In other news it is funny to see BR nerfed again after people started some hype. One of the biggest lessons I have learned is not to communicate on the forums unless Im willing to suffer changes to what I discuss.3 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »It seems the feedback for the removal of Bracing had the same fate as the one for the AoE caps in the past. They even nerfed Black Rose. No surprise there...
In other news it is funny to see BR nerfed again after people started some hype. One of the biggest lessons I have learned is not to communicate on the forums unless Im willing to suffer changes to what I discuss.
I'm fairly sure that the change happened in 2.4.0. All the other item-set changes listed were changes from Live to 2.4.0, not changes from .0 to .1. It looks like these were notes that were intended for last week, but missed the boat somehow.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information0 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »I may be the minority but I would like to keep incoming healing. I do use swallow soul as an argonian Nightblade sap tank and was considering trying twilights. Atm he was using seducers while leveling up.
I main an Argonian magicka NB tank as well, so I also really like any source of +healing received I can get. In the big picture, +healing received is such an underpowered stat there's no reason not to just keep it on there.
As for the Black Rose nerf, it's not that big of a nerf and the set is still more attractive now than before the Constitution change.Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on May 2, 2016 5:44PMGore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden0 -
Halfwitte✭✭✭Come back to the forums to see whats happening on the tanking scene with the new changes, and what do I find? Why it's the same drivel from the tank haters (name rhymes with puke) that wanted to do away with the stamina regeneration while blocking. Eric Wrobel goal post kicking tanks in the privates again and forcing us to either re-roll or re-gear. Let's sacrifice one of the best tanking passives in the game for a pittance increase of damage and force the tanks to re-craft or farm all over again the gear they spent farming for months in VWGT or VICP, which is an incredibly awful (rhymes with itch) when you're hated by the RNG gods, just to replace what we used to have in a passive trait and sacrifice current traits. Wife is already upset with me because I have no interest in doing the thieves guild or the Dark brother hood content, because the rewards are unremarkable!!! The market is flooded with worthless sets and gear that a small minority of players want or use from all of that dishonesty. Stealing and Murdering isn't for everyone and neither is tanking and apparently tanking will be even less so after these changes. SERIOUSLY!!! WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DMG!! OMG I HAVE AN IDEA GIVE TANKS MOOOAAAR DMG!! Good grief ZOS I know you try hard and you can't please everyone, but don't you think it's time you tried to please the tank community for a change. We know its pretty standard to screw the sorc community which you've demonstrated with due diligence, but the tanks want off that train or wagon or whatever the crud it is you keep dragging us along on with all of the sorcs and inexplicable nerfing.
Thank you Personofsecrets for championing the cause of the tanks which for as long as I can remember you have been carrying that torch, maybe one day ZOS will listen to you.
They say forums are about adding constructive input, so here it is, leave bracing the way it is currently and add a new passive to each Armor type and make this awful new passive part of it, so tanks can add SO MUCH MOOAAR DPS!
I cringe every time I see new content being released on the Log in screen, and yet I still support with ESO plus WTF is wrong with me. /Cries8 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ok, so having blocking cost 20% more=huge tank nerf (lets forget the other things that got buffed), while getting 8% less healing (blocking or not) is no problem.
I really don't understand the logic here.
When I die from insufficient healing, it's usually not a matter of "oh, healer's heals are too weak", it's usually a matter of "oh, the healer isn't healing because they're dead or not paying attention to health bars".
Similarly, I don't remorph my Funnel Health for vMA because the things that kill me aren't things that 8% more healing would've saved me from. Running out of stamina to block is much more deadly to a tank than losing a little overhealing.
Healer's heals?
You can heal yourself you know, whether you're stamina or magicka tank.
The only thing the passive doesn't help you against are things that one shot you, which are coincidentally also what you should be blocking.
If you feel that everything is one shotting you and that you need to block all the time, then maybe you should take a look at your tanking setup & figure out what's wrong.1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok, so having blocking cost 20% more=huge tank nerf (lets forget the other things that got buffed), while getting 8% less healing (blocking or not) is no problem.
I really don't understand the logic here.
When I die from insufficient healing, it's usually not a matter of "oh, healer's heals are too weak", it's usually a matter of "oh, the healer isn't healing because they're dead or not paying attention to health bars".
Similarly, I don't remorph my Funnel Health for vMA because the things that kill me aren't things that 8% more healing would've saved me from. Running out of stamina to block is much more deadly to a tank than losing a little overhealing.
Healer's heals?
You can heal yourself you know, whether you're stamina or magicka tank.
The only thing the passive doesn't help you against are things that one shot you, which are coincidentally also what you should be blocking.
If you feel that everything is one shotting you and that you need to block all the time, then maybe you should take a look at your tanking setup & figure out what's wrong.
Or maybe instead of rebutting every comment in this thread with your own special snide version of L2P, maybe you could stop viewing everything in the game from your narrow perspective of a heavy armor soloist and realize that there are these situations called "group play"--you know, the type of play where tanks make sense--where the people are expected to be getting heals from a healer?Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
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- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information6 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »I may be the minority but I would like to keep incoming healing. I do use swallow soul as an argonian Nightblade sap tank and was considering trying twilights. Atm he was using seducers while leveling up.
I feel the same way. Given the parallel offense and defense of LA and MA that I listed I really don't think we need to sacrifice anything to get wrath, bracing, and the buffed values. Look at MA right now. Mainline stam for bigger hits, bigger heals, bigger shields, longer rolls, and now with the well fitted Dodge roll trait even more rolls. On top of that the maul/mace passive negates all but 1% of the mitigation of 5 gold heavy armor pieces with reinforced. On the otherhand Wrath is perpendicular, forcing you to take damage before you can get it. Respectfully I think the devs are wrong about this. No sacrifice was needed at all for these buffs. If the people designing LA/MA could have just a quarter of the restraint the heavy armor designers show we might not have to have -50% battle Spirit all over Cyrodiil.Edited by Armitas on May 2, 2016 8:17PMRetired.
Nord mDK2 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really cannot understand ZoS. Now they nerfed black rose set and this was the only way to increase the values from constitution. It is not like it scales with the multiplicative recovery that light and medium armors have.
Because I can!2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Thank you Personofsecrets for championing the cause of the tanks which for as long as I can remember you have been carrying that torch, maybe one day ZOS will listen to you.
Agree. Thank you for always fighting for us tanks.Edited by Armitas on May 2, 2016 8:03PMRetired.
Nord mDK0 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SublimeSparo wrote: »@DDuke What exactly is the spindleclutch video meant to prove? I can do exactly that on my healer in light armour, and my magicka nb dps, and solo bloodspawn... a tank is not even needed for that whole dungeon so how in any way is this supposed to represent tanking? Make a video of vWGT or vICP at least, or better yet the first trash pull on MoL/ vMoL.
Edit: extra points for an AA axes HM or Manti vid
As mentioned, I posted the video because someone else posted a video where he was permablocking even single trash mobs in Spindleclutch (and then subsequently complaining on the forums about "new players" going to have stamina issues - of course they are if they do the same ridiculous things as this person in the video.
Block what you have to block only.
And vMoL trash probably falls into the category of "this is where you have to block".GoodOlPinkly wrote: »GoodOlPinkly wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »
In no way are tanks getting nerfed.
And people are still claiming tanks are getting nerfed?
If you think being a tank meant only taping down your right mouse button, you've got bigger problems than block cost being increased.
Yes , it is nerfed in PvE . Because after dungeons got nerfed , only place where tanking matters is trials and in trials you have to block 99% of the time . Only time you drop block is for putting a light attack for Ultimate Regeneration which is less than 0.5 seconds . Nerfing something that matters in something means it is getting nerfed .
I will tell you what block cost increase for a trial tank like me means . Best way to tell is this : imagine your beloved Puncturing Sweeps getting its cost increased by 40-50% . I don't know how I can explain in any other way .
Only the cost wasn't increased 40-50%...you basically pulled that number directly from your ass.
First of all , thanks for your respectful comment . Clearly proves that I made them up . Anyways , I will just put the videos of me tanking in live server and in PTS .
This is the video from live server where you can clearly see ''Drained 479'' every time I successfully block .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93pBXLaiRds
And this is the one from PTS . There is no addon so I just watch the Stamina bar . Most clear time you can see it going down is while I am taking damage from Necromancers in the Watcher boss .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9maBXA5pq0E
I mentioned what I am using in each video in one of the posts above . Only difference is Bracing and increase in the block cost . I am not using any Sturdy in the second video .
Also , I highly recommend learning to discuss things like a normal person .
Sorry, but there's virtually no difference seen in the two videos.
Also, I can see why you're upset about this change - all you do in these videos is hold block (even when nothing is attacking you)
You do know that there's no stamina regeneration while blocking? Also, despite how scary they are, a single trash mob in Spindleclutch wont one shot you if you stop blocking for a second (nor does Blood Spawn hit you for more than 20-30% of your health if you decide not to block one of his attacks, but these are advanced tactics )
1- My build doesn't have any self healing . That is why I am trying to get the least damage I can get and let the Healer do DPS . That is why I am blocking most of the time . I don't have an option like using sweeps to heal myself . Only healing I have is a joke ( Coagulating Blood )
You have a healer, you still don't need to block 24/7. In fact, your health regen alone is more than enough to outheal a single trash mob and holding block does nothing but prevent you from regening stamina (which often in your video is stuck at around 60% due to this).
Also, you clearly have both Coagulating Blood & Igneous Shield on your bar on the videos. You cast one Igneous Shield & it'll take 15 minutes for that lone trash mob to get through it.
Or you know, you can hold block & then complain about stamina.
Your choice.
Also, what exactly is the problem with Coagulating Blood? It's an awesome skill for tanks. Especially in PvE (also one of the few ways of getting Minor Vitality) - pretty much all DK tanks use it.2- I am trying to tell the difference it will make in the trials . I am trying to point the difference in block cost . I still can't understand how you don't see the difference . Addon clearly shows that block costs 479 stamina and other video shows clearly each block costs around 700 . If Constitution gives 9xx every 4 seconds instead of 2xx ; it will make 7xx more stamina every 4 seconds . which results in less than 200 stamina every second . The difference in block cost is more than 200 , which shows that it is not even after the change .
"Around 700". Wow, so precise.
Are you sure it's not "around 600" or "around 500", or do your spider senses allow you to calculate the exact amount by staring at the stamina pool?3- This is probably fourth time I am trying to tell you it is about trials where PvE tanking matters . Also it will affect new players who are trying to tank veteran dungeons where lots of adds going to attack them and Constitution won't do any good in AOE fights . Not everyone can heal themselves with insane amounts with sweeps in AOE fights .
We've had one of the best tanks in the EU megaserver post here and say it's fine and there's not much of a difference, I'll put much more faith in what he has to say than some random tank who permablocks in Spindleclutch.
Also, DK tanks can survive just as easily as Templars by using Igneous, Coagulating & Deep Breath.
You being disingenuous again. The problem here is not tanking a single nameless mob and you know it.
I am talking about the "comparison" videos where he is tanking even the single nameless mobs by holding block, and then complaining about running out of stamina on the forums.
All I'm saying is that you'll want to adapt your playstyles if you run out of stamina.
Block less, use those defensive skills on bar instead, that's the direction these changes are pushing you towards. You may have more stamina problems while blocking multiple enemies, but if you drop that block for a while you'll also regenerate stamina much faster.
That, and those defensive skills are now much stronger after the other changes to heavy armor and you're less suspectible to getting bursted down (you get +5% more health now, which is a pretty big deal).
A whole lot of over-reacting, just like every time something changes about anything related to tanking (whether good or bad).
Did you just took a PvE video and built a argument based on PvP against it?
What's based on PvP? Please elaborate.
I can't really speak for the PVE side of this because I HealTank in PVE, but for PVP this is a huge Nerf if your taking 10 consecutive hits from a semi good player in pvp your either dead, or wasting that extra 200 wep/ spell damage on healing yourself.
How is it "wasting 200 extra wep/spell dmg" if you heal yourself? It's called taking damage and surviving (aka tanking).
If you have enough mitigation and decent health pool, you don't need to worry about blocking attacks.
There comes a time in PvP when you know exactly how much damage each class & each build can deal to you. Then you only block when you know the incoming damage would kill you (or CC you at a bad moment).
@Liofa
Stop saying your build doesn't have any damage or healing abilities when that simply isn't true. You have Igneous & Coagulating on your bar (as clearly proven by the videos you posted).
Besides, who's fault would it be if you didn't slot any survivability skills?
As for "2 healers not being enough", I'd like to see you try and tank vMoL Rakkhat's gatling gun without using any kind of survivability skill.
But that's besides the point: as a tank, any time you get to low health you should use these survivability skills (just like most decent & semi-decent tanks do). Of course you can just stand there holding block & then die while staring at the skills wondering what to do with them. I saw plenty of these "tanks" when I still bothered pugging dungeons.
Oh, and Craglorn trials are a joke (you don't need to block there 90% of time).
Also, does that 0,7k mean precisely 700 stamina for each block, or does it mean 738, 744, maybe even 651 rounded to 700? That is what I mean. It is impossible to theorycraft anything around numbers that are so flexible based on your bias.
My mitigation is near max and yes certain builds can still two- three shot a "Magicka Templar"
If so, I'm yet to meet one. The best burst I've seen takes around 50% of my health pool and that's by really good players and a combination of 3+ skills. If things are 2-3 shotting you, you're not using proper gear/traits.
Well, with the new update we wont be ABLE to use the traits we need to avoid being 2 or 3 shot, now will we? Impen is out the window because we have to sacrifice it for sturdy.
#logic
On what basis? I'll never drop impenetrable on my templar - I'll have zero problems either because I don't block 24/7.
Adjust your playstyle to block less, problem solved.
So, then what are you doing when you don't block? Why do you not block on certain occasions? I don't even see a reason to drop block (unless playing in DD gear). I mean, if it's sustain that makes you drop block, well, then you;re doing something wrong. (Edit: assuming a pve standpoint)
But seriously, you either play spindleclutch without a tank, or with one, not with some kind of "in the middle, but not really anything" handicap. And it is easily doable without a tank, making it a stupid example on the spot.Edited by Woeler on May 2, 2016 8:32PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SublimeSparo wrote: »@DDuke What exactly is the spindleclutch video meant to prove? I can do exactly that on my healer in light armour, and my magicka nb dps, and solo bloodspawn... a tank is not even needed for that whole dungeon so how in any way is this supposed to represent tanking? Make a video of vWGT or vICP at least, or better yet the first trash pull on MoL/ vMoL.
Edit: extra points for an AA axes HM or Manti vid
As mentioned, I posted the video because someone else posted a video where he was permablocking even single trash mobs in Spindleclutch (and then subsequently complaining on the forums about "new players" going to have stamina issues - of course they are if they do the same ridiculous things as this person in the video.
Block what you have to block only.
And vMoL trash probably falls into the category of "this is where you have to block".GoodOlPinkly wrote: »GoodOlPinkly wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »
In no way are tanks getting nerfed.
And people are still claiming tanks are getting nerfed?
If you think being a tank meant only taping down your right mouse button, you've got bigger problems than block cost being increased.
Yes , it is nerfed in PvE . Because after dungeons got nerfed , only place where tanking matters is trials and in trials you have to block 99% of the time . Only time you drop block is for putting a light attack for Ultimate Regeneration which is less than 0.5 seconds . Nerfing something that matters in something means it is getting nerfed .
I will tell you what block cost increase for a trial tank like me means . Best way to tell is this : imagine your beloved Puncturing Sweeps getting its cost increased by 40-50% . I don't know how I can explain in any other way .
Only the cost wasn't increased 40-50%...you basically pulled that number directly from your ass.
First of all , thanks for your respectful comment . Clearly proves that I made them up . Anyways , I will just put the videos of me tanking in live server and in PTS .
This is the video from live server where you can clearly see ''Drained 479'' every time I successfully block .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93pBXLaiRds
And this is the one from PTS . There is no addon so I just watch the Stamina bar . Most clear time you can see it going down is while I am taking damage from Necromancers in the Watcher boss .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9maBXA5pq0E
I mentioned what I am using in each video in one of the posts above . Only difference is Bracing and increase in the block cost . I am not using any Sturdy in the second video .
Also , I highly recommend learning to discuss things like a normal person .
Sorry, but there's virtually no difference seen in the two videos.
Also, I can see why you're upset about this change - all you do in these videos is hold block (even when nothing is attacking you)
You do know that there's no stamina regeneration while blocking? Also, despite how scary they are, a single trash mob in Spindleclutch wont one shot you if you stop blocking for a second (nor does Blood Spawn hit you for more than 20-30% of your health if you decide not to block one of his attacks, but these are advanced tactics )
1- My build doesn't have any self healing . That is why I am trying to get the least damage I can get and let the Healer do DPS . That is why I am blocking most of the time . I don't have an option like using sweeps to heal myself . Only healing I have is a joke ( Coagulating Blood )
You have a healer, you still don't need to block 24/7. In fact, your health regen alone is more than enough to outheal a single trash mob and holding block does nothing but prevent you from regening stamina (which often in your video is stuck at around 60% due to this).
Also, you clearly have both Coagulating Blood & Igneous Shield on your bar on the videos. You cast one Igneous Shield & it'll take 15 minutes for that lone trash mob to get through it.
Or you know, you can hold block & then complain about stamina.
Your choice.
Also, what exactly is the problem with Coagulating Blood? It's an awesome skill for tanks. Especially in PvE (also one of the few ways of getting Minor Vitality) - pretty much all DK tanks use it.2- I am trying to tell the difference it will make in the trials . I am trying to point the difference in block cost . I still can't understand how you don't see the difference . Addon clearly shows that block costs 479 stamina and other video shows clearly each block costs around 700 . If Constitution gives 9xx every 4 seconds instead of 2xx ; it will make 7xx more stamina every 4 seconds . which results in less than 200 stamina every second . The difference in block cost is more than 200 , which shows that it is not even after the change .
"Around 700". Wow, so precise.
Are you sure it's not "around 600" or "around 500", or do your spider senses allow you to calculate the exact amount by staring at the stamina pool?3- This is probably fourth time I am trying to tell you it is about trials where PvE tanking matters . Also it will affect new players who are trying to tank veteran dungeons where lots of adds going to attack them and Constitution won't do any good in AOE fights . Not everyone can heal themselves with insane amounts with sweeps in AOE fights .
We've had one of the best tanks in the EU megaserver post here and say it's fine and there's not much of a difference, I'll put much more faith in what he has to say than some random tank who permablocks in Spindleclutch.
Also, DK tanks can survive just as easily as Templars by using Igneous, Coagulating & Deep Breath.
You being disingenuous again. The problem here is not tanking a single nameless mob and you know it.
I am talking about the "comparison" videos where he is tanking even the single nameless mobs by holding block, and then complaining about running out of stamina on the forums.
All I'm saying is that you'll want to adapt your playstyles if you run out of stamina.
Block less, use those defensive skills on bar instead, that's the direction these changes are pushing you towards. You may have more stamina problems while blocking multiple enemies, but if you drop that block for a while you'll also regenerate stamina much faster.
That, and those defensive skills are now much stronger after the other changes to heavy armor and you're less suspectible to getting bursted down (you get +5% more health now, which is a pretty big deal).
A whole lot of over-reacting, just like every time something changes about anything related to tanking (whether good or bad).
Did you just took a PvE video and built a argument based on PvP against it?
What's based on PvP? Please elaborate.
I can't really speak for the PVE side of this because I HealTank in PVE, but for PVP this is a huge Nerf if your taking 10 consecutive hits from a semi good player in pvp your either dead, or wasting that extra 200 wep/ spell damage on healing yourself.
How is it "wasting 200 extra wep/spell dmg" if you heal yourself? It's called taking damage and surviving (aka tanking).
If you have enough mitigation and decent health pool, you don't need to worry about blocking attacks.
There comes a time in PvP when you know exactly how much damage each class & each build can deal to you. Then you only block when you know the incoming damage would kill you (or CC you at a bad moment).
@Liofa
Stop saying your build doesn't have any damage or healing abilities when that simply isn't true. You have Igneous & Coagulating on your bar (as clearly proven by the videos you posted).
Besides, who's fault would it be if you didn't slot any survivability skills?
As for "2 healers not being enough", I'd like to see you try and tank vMoL Rakkhat's gatling gun without using any kind of survivability skill.
But that's besides the point: as a tank, any time you get to low health you should use these survivability skills (just like most decent & semi-decent tanks do). Of course you can just stand there holding block & then die while staring at the skills wondering what to do with them. I saw plenty of these "tanks" when I still bothered pugging dungeons.
Oh, and Craglorn trials are a joke (you don't need to block there 90% of time).
Also, does that 0,7k mean precisely 700 stamina for each block, or does it mean 738, 744, maybe even 651 rounded to 700? That is what I mean. It is impossible to theorycraft anything around numbers that are so flexible based on your bias.
My mitigation is near max and yes certain builds can still two- three shot a "Magicka Templar"
If so, I'm yet to meet one. The best burst I've seen takes around 50% of my health pool and that's by really good players and a combination of 3+ skills. If things are 2-3 shotting you, you're not using proper gear/traits.
Well, with the new update we wont be ABLE to use the traits we need to avoid being 2 or 3 shot, now will we? Impen is out the window because we have to sacrifice it for sturdy.
#logic
On what basis? I'll never drop impenetrable on my templar - I'll have zero problems either because I don't block 24/7.
Adjust your playstyle to block less, problem solved.
So, then what are you doing when you don't block? Why do you not block on certain occasions? I don't even see a reason to drop block (unless playing in DD gear). I mean, if it's sustain that makes you drop block, well, then you;re doing something wrong. (Edit: assuming a pve standpoint)
Well, whatever you want basicly. Personally I prefer DPSing when I dont have to block - saves time (I do play in a 5/1/1 heavy dps gear that's made for PvP, which tells a lot about dungeon difficulty....).
But I'm mostly saying this to the people that think 20% block cost reduction is going to destroy their sustain, I'm fully aware people are (and certainly will be) able to permablock.
If someone's sustain is making them drop block, they are doing something wrong - either the wrong gear for permablocking or too much blocking for a non-permablocking setup.Edited by DDuke on May 2, 2016 8:41PM1 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭But I'm mostly saying this to the people that think 20% block cost reduction is going to destroy their sustain, I'm fully aware people are (and certainly will be) able to permablock.
If someone's sustain is making them drop block, they are doing something wrong - either the wrong gear for permablocking or too much blocking for a non-permablocking setup.
Alright, then you and I are pretty much on one line.0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »It seems the feedback for the removal of Bracing had the same fate as the one for the AoE caps in the past. They even nerfed Black Rose. No surprise there...
In other news it is funny to see BR nerfed again after people started some hype. One of the biggest lessons I have learned is not to communicate on the forums unless Im willing to suffer changes to what I discuss.
I'm fairly sure that the change happened in 2.4.0. All the other item-set changes listed were changes from Live to 2.4.0, not changes from .0 to .1. It looks like these were notes that were intended for last week, but missed the boat somehow.
Well, I have to hand it to the devs if they remembered about the Black Rose set.0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭20% + (x - 2160), with x being the newly increased block cost will be around 700 more stamina lost per block. That will be around a 33% increase compared to the current value of block.
I for one hope that block cost become 15,000 stamina per block.0 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »It seems the feedback for the removal of Bracing had the same fate as the one for the AoE caps in the past. They even nerfed Black Rose. No surprise there...
In other news it is funny to see BR nerfed again after people started some hype. One of the biggest lessons I have learned is not to communicate on the forums unless Im willing to suffer changes to what I discuss.
I'm fairly sure that the change happened in 2.4.0. All the other item-set changes listed were changes from Live to 2.4.0, not changes from .0 to .1. It looks like these were notes that were intended for last week, but missed the boat somehow.
Well, I have to hand it to the devs if they remembered about the Black Rose set.
You guys are not being fair.
Nobody said that build X was destroyed, but rather that we would need to make adjustments to compensate for the sake of a change that introduces weapon damage, which is a resource of little to no interest in PvE.0 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Incoming! Just released pts patch notes.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH
Exploration & Itemization
Item Sets- Black Rose: Reduced the bonus this item set provides to the Constitution Heavy Armor passive to 40% from 50% to account for the recent buff to Constitution.
Edited by Woeler on May 2, 2016 9:56PM1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WolfingHour wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »It seems the feedback for the removal of Bracing had the same fate as the one for the AoE caps in the past. They even nerfed Black Rose. No surprise there...
In other news it is funny to see BR nerfed again after people started some hype. One of the biggest lessons I have learned is not to communicate on the forums unless Im willing to suffer changes to what I discuss.
I'm fairly sure that the change happened in 2.4.0. All the other item-set changes listed were changes from Live to 2.4.0, not changes from .0 to .1. It looks like these were notes that were intended for last week, but missed the boat somehow.
Well, I have to hand it to the devs if they remembered about the Black Rose set.
You guys are not being fair.
Nobody said that build X was destroyed, but rather that we would need to make adjustments to compensate for the sake of a change that introduces weapon damage, which is a resource of little to no interest in PvE.
That's what I have been saying, right?0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Come back to the forums to see whats happening on the tanking scene with the new changes, and what do I find? Why it's the same drivel from the tank haters (name rhymes with puke) that wanted to do away with the stamina regeneration while blocking. Eric Wrobel goal post kicking tanks in the privates again and forcing us to either re-roll or re-gear. Let's sacrifice one of the best tanking passives in the game for a pittance increase of damage and force the tanks to re-craft or farm all over again the gear they spent farming for months in VWGT or VICP, which is an incredibly awful (rhymes with itch) when you're hated by the RNG gods, just to replace what we used to have in a passive trait and sacrifice current traits. Wife is already upset with me because I have no interest in doing the thieves guild or the Dark brother hood content, because the rewards are unremarkable!!! The market is flooded with worthless sets and gear that a small minority of players want or use from all of that dishonesty. Stealing and Murdering isn't for everyone and neither is tanking and apparently tanking will be even less so after these changes. SERIOUSLY!!! WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DMG!! OMG I HAVE AN IDEA GIVE TANKS MOOOAAAR DMG!! Good grief ZOS I know you try hard and you can't please everyone, but don't you think it's time you tried to please the tank community for a change. We know its pretty standard to screw the sorc community which you've demonstrated with due diligence, but the tanks want off that train or wagon or whatever the crud it is you keep dragging us along on with all of the sorcs and inexplicable nerfing.
Thank you Personofsecrets for championing the cause of the tanks which for as long as I can remember you have been carrying that torch, maybe one day ZOS will listen to you.
They say forums are about adding constructive input, so here it is, leave bracing the way it is currently and add a new passive to each Armor type and make this awful new passive part of it, so tanks can add SO MUCH MOOAAR DPS!
I cringe every time I see new content being released on the Log in screen, and yet I still support with ESO plus WTF is wrong with me. /Cries
Thank you for stopping by. I enjoyed reading your post. I, honestly, am not sure the best tone to use when I write.0 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »It seems the feedback for the removal of Bracing had the same fate as the one for the AoE caps in the past. They even nerfed Black Rose. No surprise there...
In other news it is funny to see BR nerfed again after people started some hype. One of the biggest lessons I have learned is not to communicate on the forums unless Im willing to suffer changes to what I discuss.
I'm fairly sure that the change happened in 2.4.0. All the other item-set changes listed were changes from Live to 2.4.0, not changes from .0 to .1. It looks like these were notes that were intended for last week, but missed the boat somehow.
Well, I have to hand it to the devs if they remembered about the Black Rose set.
You guys are not being fair.
Nobody said that build X was destroyed, but rather that we would need to make adjustments to compensate for the sake of a change that introduces weapon damage, which is a resource of little to no interest in PvE.
That's what I have been saying, right?
You make that point abundantly clear in your initial post.0
