For the Ladies - Experience as a Woman Playing ESO

RDMyers65b14_ESO

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Lynnessa wrote: »

I'd like to shed some light on why Xeven and others might protest a thread like this. It has to do with language, and with connotation.

The subject line of this thread, "For the Ladies - experience as a woman" establishes, from the outset, a sense of division. It creates an "us" and a "them". Denotatively, it is merely someone seeking communication from like-minded individuals. Connotatively, it suggests that females and males have different experiences in gaming simply because of their gender (an aside, this is true regardless of social setting--males and females have always and will always experience society differently). Take the connotation a bit further, and topics discussed in this thread can easily be construed as saying that if a female has had a negative experience, it is due to misogyny, which is not necessarily true. It's not unreasonable that some may react defensively.

The way language is used in relation to minorities and discrimination is unfortunate sometimes--simply by emphasizing differences, those differences can be perpetuated. If we can't change the way we all talk and think about such things--all of us, regardless of whether we belong to "us" or "them"--then discrimination will never go away. Personally, I don't think it ever will.

Well, it is in the mean time scientifically proven that men and women are not the same.
Men think very differently than women, and please note that I am NOT saying "women are less", merely pointing out a fact.
Thus women of course experience games, life, different than men.
Both sexes have their advantages, and disadvantages.
But they complete the other.
Still, I absolutely do not grasp where this anger (or as you so kindly put it: defense) is based on.
And for crying out loud, I have Asperger/Savant, so if anyone had to trip over something, it would've been me, rest assured.

Some just are the jerks I guess?

Ainnit odd that these folks feel addressed upon?

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

I remember the Tandy and Pong was my first console. For high school graduation, I received an Apple IIe. So, I fall into the category of 'older gamer'. When I was growing up, consoles were considered to be toys, not computers. Anything that was serious was on a pc. I remember that the majority of my classmates thought I was strange as 'girls don't play games'. I was considered weird because I was a girl who not only played games but had a computer. Played computer games. Yep, a complete nerd. I was also weird because I watched sci-fi and fantasy instead of soap operas.

Other MMORPGs that I tried in the past were a LOT more derogatory than ESO has been. The only comment here that I have received was not about my being a female but "Wow, you are old enough to be my grandmother."

My my, you're like me, but in a female body.
I remember back in half 1980/1990 where folks asked me: a 40!!!!MB drive?
What on EARTH will you do with that, you cannot EVER fill that thing up" lol...
How times change.

Oh yes. I remember that. I also remember my now ex-husband telling me that we didn't need a 14.4 modem as 300 baud was good enough. As soon as he went on deployment, I bought and installed the 14.4 and a bigger hard drive. I know, bad wife improving the computer while he was out to sea.

Suru

Xeven wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

A "grown up" adult has the ability and responsibility to be kind and accepting and polite to others. A child does not. Telling someone to grow up for asking nicely to refrain from making detrimental comments is the perfect way of saying you, yourself, need some growing up to do.

I've read the whole thread. It's about how some men specifically, are jerks on the internet. Some men are cool though. Really? Well no ***. Don't be sexist though. I'll report you.

Calm down lol

LiquidSchwartz

Sometimes dudes in area chat pick on a girl if she says something in like mournhold but theyre like 15 and usually get told off by someone and leave chat lol

Xeven

Suru wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

A "grown up" adult has the ability and responsibility to be kind and accepting and polite to others. A child does not. Telling someone to grow up for asking nicely to refrain from making detrimental comments is the perfect way of saying you, yourself, need some growing up to do.

I've read the whole thread. It's about how some men specifically, are jerks on the internet. Some men are cool though. Really? Well no ***. Don't be sexist though. I'll report you.

Calm down lol

Read it in a female voice. Better?

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh yes. I remember that. I also remember my now ex-husband telling me that we didn't need a 14.4 modem as 300 baud was good enough. As soon as he went on deployment, I bought and installed the 14.4 and a bigger hard drive. I know, bad wife improving the computer while he was out to sea.

Bad, naughty, but clever. XD


I've always been a freak about computers.
Right now I have "barely" 16TB on drives... and I'm starting to run out of space... *blushes*

Hallothiel

Never had a problem but then do play mainly as a male Khajiit...and area chat thing on the PS4 is just pants so you can't really hear anyone properly anyway. Would quite like it if I could chat.
And the most abuse I get is from my teenage sons for playing what they consider a rubbish game.

Danikat

I've not had any negative experiences in this game. Or in my other MMO for that matter.

I'm playing on PC EU, mainly DC but I have characters in all alliances. I don't use voice chat simply because it's not practical for me most of the time and I'm too cheap to buy a microphone for the rare times I could use it. I don't mention being female unless I think it's relevant (e.g. when discussing playing the same or opposite gender characters) but I don't keep it a secret either.

Honestly in my experience 99% of people really do not care. On rare occasions someone may be surprised but more often than not that's because they've known me for a while and just assumed I was male. (Fun fact: I met my husband on a forum and he thought I was a guy for a couple of months, but then I thought he was a girl, as did the admin, so it goes both ways.)

I think I've only seen negative comments about women a handful of times, and most of those were one individual who was spouting negative comments about all sorts of people. (And of course people ranting at bosses. But I do that too. I can't tell you some of the things I've called bosses before now because I'd really like to keep my account. But only in the privacy of my house, or in chat with friends who I know won't mind.)

I do sometimes wonder about the horror stories I hear from other people though. I don't know if it's because they're on different servers and the behaviour is actually that different or if I somehow simply don't notice. That's possible I suppose, I've been on the internet since the late 90's: the days of AOL chat rooms and Ultima Online and pretty much anything you see today seems tame compared to what people used to get away with back then. You'd think people would have found better ways to spend their time when we were all on dial-up and time online was so precious everyone would write their emails offline and only connect to send it (which could take 5 minutes). And we had to walk 5 miles up hill in the snow to connect the thing.

Danikat

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Oh yes. I remember that. I also remember my now ex-husband telling me that we didn't need a 14.4 modem as 300 baud was good enough. As soon as he went on deployment, I bought and installed the 14.4 and a bigger hard drive. I know, bad wife improving the computer while he was out to sea.

Bad, naughty, but clever. XD


I've always been a freak about computers.
Right now I have "barely" 16TB on drives... and I'm starting to run out of space... *blushes*

My dad still complains about letting my mum go out and buy the ZX Spectrum. He had decided on the 16KB model and she went and got the 48KB one!

48KB of RAM! Why would anyone ever need a computer like that?

(Thankfully we established fairly early on that I know more about computers than my husband, so now if I decide we need an SSD, 1TB minimum but as big as we can reasonably afford he'll just tell me to leave his files where they are and stop threatening to change the C drive to the A drive because computers don't have to be in alphabetical order.)

vyndral13preub18_ESO

All you women out there need to play male characters more often. It is pretty interesting to see how the other sex is treated.

Although it does get awkward at times... Oh you just mailed me a bunch of stuff? Ok... Wait what? You want me to come on teamspeak? Im a dude you chucklehead! Hello? Odd he blocked me... I wonder if i should send this stuff back... Nah.

Although really it isnt nearly as bad as it use to be. The gaming community has changed a whole lot over the years. Or maybe im a lot less lady like now...

Ripsyn

Sexism, no.. I have not experienced that.

Shameless flirting, yes. But never aggressive or uncomfortable. Sometimes its from other women.

Nifty2g

BomblePants wrote: »

@Nifty2g - wind up....

why are you white knighting for
ill help all you girls up just holla at me right quick

pm me for more details

Serpace

There are no women on the internet, its an urban legend.

ZOS_CoriJ

It seems that most of the conversation on this thread has been constructive from all parties. However we wanted to post a reminder that politics are not to be discussed on the forums. Debate is encouraged however gender is already a loaded discussion and we want to discourage disruptive, personal, or baiting commentary. So please be sure to keep this on topic with the OP.

Thanks guys, you may continue

Lynnessa

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Still, I absolutely do not grasp where this anger (or as you so kindly put it: defense) is based on.

Divisive language. See, threads like this create division, encourage stereotypes, and can in fact be argued to be "-ist" (in this case, sexist) in the sense that they perpetuate the very "-isms" they ostensibly decry--through the use of divisive language.

Objective thinkers are bound to point this out in any such thread.

Xeven wrote: »

Defensively is not the word I would have used. I see what I see and I tell it like it is. I also found it interesting that you used the words minorities and discrimination. Women are the majority, and men have to deal with their own set of problems and discrimination. Let's be real here.

You engaged in the defense of your viewpoint. Interesting that you pointed out that women are the majority--but, these days the ideas of minority and majority have less to do with numbers and more to do with political correctness.

Mrs_Quietus

Ladies, grow a pair and don't ALLOW yourself to be treated that way.

failkiwib16_ESO

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

All you women out there need to play male characters more often. It is pretty interesting to see how the other sex is treated.

Although it does get awkward at times... Oh you just mailed me a bunch of stuff? Ok... Wait what? You want me to come on teamspeak? Im a dude you chucklehead! Hello? Odd he blocked me... I wonder if i should send this stuff back... Nah.

Although really it isnt nearly as bad as it use to be. The gaming community has changed a whole lot over the years. Or maybe im a lot less lady like now...

You mean like my beloved sorc?

RoyalPink06

This is my first mmo. I am a chick. I have really bad social anxiety. Seems like a good mix, doesn't it?

I've been pleasantly surprised though. I always assumed my gamer tag, "RoyalPink06", was a fairly good indicator that I'm not a dude. Most of my characters are male though, and it's interesting to hear the surprise when I speak and ppl go "oh a chick, cool". I've been told on a few occasions that I have a "nice voice" or that I "sound like I'm hot", but that's hardly offensive to me. Everyone has been pretty cool to me, which definitely helps to build the confidence and helps me to just be me (social anxiety is horrible). I've yet to have any sexist comments directed at me. But it's almost impossible to offend me, so chances are I wouldn't care anyway. I haven't heard anything like that in area chat directed at anyone else, either.

@Taisynn I'm with you on this. A fellow victim myself (you are not alone), I would definitely always report that type of behaviour if I think it's crossing a line. Luckily I haven't had to. I do think ZOS takes that seriously.

Dromede

Just couple days ago met up in TS with 3 other players for vWGT. 3 girls and 1 guy. We all were kind of surprised and laughed about it since the ratio is usually 1-3 or 2-2 girls to guys

The weirdest -slightly sexist- moment happened in one guild's TS when after a succesful trial run when we engaged in a conversation about women's traditional roles in different societies/cultures (we had a really diverse group of people there from different countries. Still not sure how the conversation took that turn though lol).

Basically, one of the guys insisted that most girls play healers because of nurturing instincts and so on. We all experienced awkward silence at first, then people started disagreeing. It's not even sexism, it's more of stereotyping i think.

Dromede

BomblePants wrote: »

I have chat turned on and I've had a few moments where things go quiet every now and then, I've wondered if it's cause I'm a female, but my dog is always lying at my side and he snores - maybe people are just wondering what the sound is

My husband snores REALLY loud, and i scared a couple people in TS this way - people must have assumed i fell asleep on the keyboard or something lol

Inarre

I think it helps that in game most people assume 90% of female characters to be male in real life.

That said, when singling yourself out and labeling yourself as female, it is likely to get your harassment. Our guild started a "ladies only trial night" to enjoy female company and have fun. Unfortunately it was invaded by some jerks who made sexist comments in team speak (who were then kicked and banned from TS).

I don't think it's necessarily just females though. Any reason people can find to harass others those types of people will take it. I don't necessarily feel any shame or injustice in being female though, so if they feel offended by my gender I feel it's more their issue to handle than mine. I'm just here to play a game and have fun.

Lysette

Dromede wrote: »

Just couple days ago met up in TS with 3 other players for vWGT. 3 girls and 1 guy. We all were kind of surprised and laughed about it since the ratio is usually 1-3 or 2-2 girls to guys

The weirdest -slightly sexist- moment happened in one guild's TS when after a succesful trial run when we engaged in a conversation about women's traditional roles in different societies/cultures (we had a really diverse group of people there from different countries. Still not sure how the conversation took that turn though lol).

Basically, one of the guys insisted that most girls play healers because of nurturing instincts and so on. We all experienced awkward silence at first, then people started disagreeing. It's not even sexism, it's more of stereotyping i think.

I do not even think, that the thesis that most women play healers would hold true. When I think about those women, which I played with in MMOs, not one of them was in a supportive role (as in healing/repairing others), some were in a leading role (fleet commander, wing commander, CEO/guild leaders) other playing solo roles (piracy, assassins, bounty hunters). Given that a fleet commander in EVE has a form of support due to warfare links, which give boni to the fleet, but their main role is leadership. Ok, EVE is maybe a bad example, because the type of woman, who play this game, are rather tough ones.

Edit: Now when I think about it, it is rather strange, that I do not have any female friend in ESO ingame, all are male. I wonder why that is, there are much more women in ESO than in EVE.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Dromede wrote: »

My husband snores REALLY loud, and i scared a couple people in TS this way - people must have assumed i fell asleep on the keyboard or something lol

LONG time ago, we had, with DTM (Dragon Talon Marauders) a REALLY long Unreal Tournament marathon.
At some point, I woke up, apparently I had my face on the keyboard whilst falling asleep, with as result a "keyboardface".
At some point I even might have had the enter key stuck up my nose...

Awesome times.

Dromede

Lysette wrote: »

Dromede wrote: »

Just couple days ago met up in TS with 3 other players for vWGT. 3 girls and 1 guy. We all were kind of surprised and laughed about it since the ratio is usually 1-3 or 2-2 girls to guys

The weirdest -slightly sexist- moment happened in one guild's TS when after a succesful trial run when we engaged in a conversation about women's traditional roles in different societies/cultures (we had a really diverse group of people there from different countries. Still not sure how the conversation took that turn though lol).

Basically, one of the guys insisted that most girls play healers because of nurturing instincts and so on. We all experienced awkward silence at first, then people started disagreeing. It's not even sexism, it's more of stereotyping i think.

I do not even think, that the thesis that most women play healers would hold true. When I think about those women, which I played with in MMOs, not one of them was in a supportive role (as in healing/repairing others), some were in a leading role (fleet commander, wing commander, CEO/guild leaders) other playing solo roles (piracy, assassins, bounty hunters). Given that a fleet commander in EVE has a form of support due to warfare links, which give boni to the fleet, but their main role is leadership. Ok, EVE is maybe a bad example, because the type of woman, who play this game, are rather tough ones.

Edit: Now when I think about it, it is rather strange, that I do not have any female friend in ESO ingame, all are male. I wonder why that is, there are much more women in ESO than in EVE.

I feel like that statement is irrelevant to any game that allows several characters on one account - for example, i have all classes and all roles. My role of choice is dps, but i rolled a healer out of need (my initial guild had very few healers around launch time) and eventually a tank out of curiosity. It has nothing to do with gender, but it does scale off my personality lol

I haven't played any MMO's you mentioned, but i feel like ESO is so diverse in every possible meaning of the word that stereotyping of any kind is bound to fail.

milkbox

Oddly enough, the most blatant sexism I've experienced was from a female guild-leader who disliked having other women around (and expressed as much, freely and frequently). It made for some *really* awkward interactions, because despite this, the guild was at least 1/3 female. If everyone else in the guild hadn't been awesome, I think it would have fallen apart much quicker.

Nestor

@milkbox

Just goes to show that there are all kinds of people in every kind of group and no one individual can define the group.

notimetocare

Nova Sky wrote: »

Being 42 and all, I really don't understand this penchant for some male gamers to insult female gamers.

Grow up, because if they cannot treat a woman in-game with respect, it really makes me wonder how those gamers treat women outside of gaming.

Oh, and last but not least, always keep in mind, fellow males, is that it was a woman who gave birth to you. Most of us love our mothers, so let's treat other women the same we'd treat the woman who brought us into the world.

Gamers insult gamers. I get gendered insults as a woman just because it tends to sting more. Has nothing to do with 'because woman' it is 'because effective'

CherryCake

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@EstelioVeleth lol it happened a while ago, so here's an old picture of how my char used to look ..sorry for the bad quality, it's the fastest picture I could find.

Highelf templar v14. (the image is ooold)

She is beautiful with a big heart xDDDDDDDDDDD!

ArchMikem

Dromede wrote: »

Basically, one of the guys insisted that most girls play healers because of nurturing instincts and so on. We all experienced awkward silence at first, then people started disagreeing. It's not even sexism, it's more of stereotyping i think.

Odd, but understandable. I personally viewed Healing more as a supporting role when you can't bring damage to the table. Never thought of it as a Nurturing role. Then again, the role of Healer in pop culture always does tend to be a girl or woman.

Whenever I've done a group dungeon I've always been the Healer, and I haven't even maxed my Restoration Skill to 50 yet, but that's the best I can do since I'm definitely not on par with other damage dealers.

bottleofsyrup

I'm not a girl but I have two female characters (my main's a guy) because the ideas for their personalities came to me at the time. It almost amazes me how often I get unsolicited friend requests, group invites and whispers from guys when playing either of them. All they can think is "omg grill".

VodkaVixen1979

I have gotten a few flirty Xbox messages. I stay out of area chat, so that helps. My fiancé and two sons play also, so they shield me most of the time. My fiancé is in some guilds that play with girls and will have the chat playing on the normal tv volume. It would be great if a bunch of girls out there wouldn't be giggly, valley girl bit€hes on chat. They aren't doing the rest of us women any favors for in game reputation.