For the Ladies - Experience as a Woman Playing ESO

Xeven

ArchMikem wrote: »

A "grown up" adult has the ability and responsibility to be kind and accepting and polite to others. A child does not. Telling someone to grow up for asking nicely to refrain from making detrimental comments is the perfect way of saying you, yourself, need some growing up to do.

I've read the whole thread. It's about how some men specifically, are jerks on the internet. Some men are cool though. Really? Well no ***. Don't be sexist though. I'll report you.

BlueViolet

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

wolfninja101b14_ESO wrote: »

Please do not make sexist, racist, hateful, or similar comments or you will be reported.

You mean like this whole thread? WTF is your point? You don't have one.

Your OP says:

"Hi I'm a woman. I play a game on the internet. The majority of players are men. Some men are jerks. Let's talk about how some men are jerks. Don't you dare talk about how some women are jerks. That's sexist."

Here is a little tip. I don't care what's between your legs. I don't ask, most don't tell. I don't mind that you're a woman, the real issue here is, you shouldn't mind either.

I despise this third wave feminist BS. You have been equals for half a century. It has become a cancer on western society, and it is demasculinizing men. Boys will be boys and girls will be girls. We are different. Ther's nothing wrong with that. Get over it.

[snip]
Yeah, women can be obnoxious jerks too.

I don't see this extreme at all in this thread. Nothing hateful has been said until your post. In fact, the women in this thread have said nothing but positive things. I'll never understand why some people have to make everything negative.

I haven't see any extremes in this thread either. And from re-reading it seems most folks are aware that being nasty or impolite to other people isn't restricted to males online, only that the experiences noted here have been ( I believe )
In fact I've known two women from another MMO who have been just as nasty as some men.

The OP didn't ask for experiences regarding males, they simply asked for opinions and experiences within ESO and the community. It just so happens that those who did happen to have an unpleasant experience was due to some ( probable ) random guy. I'm fairly sure mine was, because he said he was. I can't speak for anyone else. If it had been a female who'd said that, I still would have posted it.

I also noticed that a couple of gentlemen in the thread have apologised on behalf of their gender. I find that quite sad to read. Not because of their apology, but because they felt that they should. They don't need to. The onus is on the individual, not for some other poor fellow who's had nothing to do with anything.

And I believe that applies to anyone, male or female. I don't like to be tarred with the same brush as rabid feminists, not all women are like that, just like many of us know that not all men are beer drinking, remote hogging, farting, belching, cover snatching chauvinists. Unless it's my hubby. The poor dear is everything but the last.

Edit - I expect I should also have listed the positive experiences I've also had, rather than just negative.
The first time I logged into the EU server, brand new, with no achievements, unlocks, characters ( except the brand new first one I was playing ) a lovely person I randomly met in the bank gave me about forty recipes for my character who was going to be my crafter on EU.

There was the nice guy who initially helped me level up my enchanting, and the others who have helped me out at Dolmen's, or in public delves or dungeons.
The awesome people in my guild who make me laugh, and who tirelessly help one another out with their crafting, leveling, or questing. And shot nights in Cyrodil or Craglorn.
My experiences have been more pleasant than unpleasant. I'm glad for that, because I love the game. I don't do voice and I don't advertise my gender, but I suppose my @handle is fairly feminine looking.

I generally find it hard to just approach random people, or strike up conversations because I'm somewhat shy, even behind a screen, so I keep to myself most of the time. But there are times that zone has made me laugh and choke on my coffee, instead of being unpleasant. It isn't all bad.

Purdomination33

There are most definitely the 1-2% who sit in cities spouting the most horrific things. Which is why you do not turn on area chat in any of the big cities. No doubt their parents got divorced when they were at a vulnerable age...or are currently divorcing. Or that post high school job at Jimmy John's isn't all it's cracked up to be.

I am a guy in my 'early' 30's. This is my first experience with an MMO of any sort. Not all that surprised really that so many women play, the world is a big diverse place. Honestly its a nice change to hear a woman's voice in chat. I think it's funny, conversation tends to gravitate towards the women. Guys, particularly the more socially awkward ones, perk up a bit, make a couple more jokes than usual and offer to help because you know, it's no big deal. Maybe it's my Dad genes kicking in or the fact I play with my wife's cat on my lap but it's actually kind of....cute. So entertaining listening to those socially awkward souls practice speaking to someone of the opposite sex while 'keeping their cool'. Little things in life.

Keep women gaming...just not my wife.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Xeven wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

A "grown up" adult has the ability and responsibility to be kind and accepting and polite to others. A child does not. Telling someone to grow up for asking nicely to refrain from making detrimental comments is the perfect way of saying you, yourself, need some growing up to do.

I've read the whole thread. It's about how some men specifically, are jerks on the internet. Some men are cool though. Really? Well no ***. Don't be sexist though. I'll report you.

Dude, grow up.
We men in generally ARE jerks on the internet.
I'm not even going to start with "proof".
Join any a forum/game to see what I mean.

Yes, in here folks are fairly decent.
But we all know, there are other places.

BTW: Xeven, why do you act as if personally addressed?
Makes me wonder.
As they say: Whom the shoe fits...?

NBrookus

PC NA

I've seen some pretty toxic things in zone chat, but that's not certainly not limited to sexist comments! I think I've heard a lot more gay-bashing than sexism. And I've encountered a few minor cases of sexual harassment or misogyny, but it's been about at the same rate as offline life. Overall, the ESO community is welcoming and polite.

I do know that when I play my big, burly male toon I am far more likely to get attacked in PvP than when I am on my petite female sorc. My male also gets a lot more rage whispers. I find this humorous, since my sorc is far more likely to turn you into a pile of ash, and there are lots of female toons being piloted by men.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

What's on my mind:
This.
Because.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFl32g-Ro3U

Moonscythe

I leave voice chat off for many reasons not related to a fear of being insulted/threatened/etc. I am an introvert who really doesn't do crowds and voice chat is still a crowd. I am serious when I say I am older than nearly all of you and that means it is not my culture to use the language I hear so casually. It is better all together for me to leave it off. I have a retired marine friend from Skyrim and the xbox forums who has two young daughters who like to game with him and he indulges them while still being very protective. He asked me about ESO on the Xbox for them (they are very young). The one thing I cautioned him about was monitoring voice chat if he left it on.

For me, voice chat can be extremely invasive and I wish players were more aware of that. It's not like going to a bar or club and hearing conversation around you because the voices are in your home which is your safe place. It's worse than having a window open next to a ballpark. All of that means I will pass on voice chat unless it is over a safe guild line and I have had no success with guilds. Text chat, when I was on PC, I turned off too but that was because I resented it taking up real estate on my screen while carrying nothing but a combination of inane blather, obscene insults, and huckstering.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Ummm aren't any pvp'ers going to make the obligatory "fix the lag" post?? My wife is a gamer too. Rock on, ladies!

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

@Moonscythe: Yep, the world is screwed, sadly.
Global IQ is dropping like a skyscraper elevator in free fall.
It's the year 1016, and still there is hunger, thirst, poverty.
No one cares about the other.

I fear, in all honesty, for my future as old fart... and I'm "only" 46.
Things aren't going well, that much is sure.

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ummm aren't any pvp'ers going to make the obligatory "fix the lag" post?? My wife is a gamer too. Rock on, ladies!

As PvE'er, I have THE solution for LAG: remove PvP. XD

Now you heard the other side, HAH. :P

rotaugen454

I wonder if there is a difference in jerk rates between systems? My sister says she gets harassed much more on console than PC and I've wondered if the age of the average user is a factor?

Nestor

Speaking as a Man here.

I don't care about the gender of the people I am grouped with, I just care if I am having fun with them. I have never said anything negative about or to anyone in the game, but, I do yell at my character from time to time. Things like "Why won't you move" or "why won't you attack" (the last is due to lag). So, I have to explain to group members that if they hear me trash talking something, it is my character that is the focus of my ire. Yes, it's really me I am yelling at, but I feel better directing it at a bunch of pixels on the screen. Besides, unless healing, I am usually focused on my task, not what others are doing unless I am Healing, then its just health bars.

Now, I have called bosses in the game the B word from time to time. Ironically, I picked that up from my mom back in the late 70's and early 80's when playing on the first consoles. She would call out you little *** when something killed her character. I asked her one day and she said it's ok to say to a game character, but not a real person. So, if I backslide sometimes in Teamspeak or Discord when in a boss fight, I try to tell everyone it's the boss I am yelling at. I have also used other cussword type of names, so I am an equal opportunity boss insulter.

Ilsabet

My gender really isn't a factor in my gaming experience, largely because it just doesn't come up. I'm on PC so I don't need to use voice chat, and I haven't made the jump to Teamspeak although I'm considering it since people seem to like to use it for dungeon groups. I guess people can assume what they want about me, although I think I generally assume that I come across as female, which is probably biased in itself just because I already know I'm female and like why wouldn't I be. I've noticed myself occasionally seeing other people as female for no particular reason, and then I have to remind myself that they might just as easily be guys with female characters or something. With no other information, though, I usually just go with the gender of the character or what the name sounds like when I'm referring to someone, since that's all I have to go on, and they can correct me if they want to.

In general though it just isn't an issue. People are who they are and I'm just here doing my thing. Zone chat gets stupid sometimes, of course, but that's because people are stupid and will say stupid things about just about anything. When that happens I just go about my business and don't pay attention to it, whether it's people making crude jokes or debating politics or being rude to people asking questions. If someone were being hateful to me personally it would be harder to ignore, but ultimately it's more a reflection of the other person than me, so I'd just deal with it appropriately and move on.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I wonder if there is a difference in jerk rates between systems? My sister says she gets harassed much more on console than PC and I've wondered if the age of the average user is a factor?

Console is MUCH more child based.
PC on the other hand is the "hardcore console" for real gamers (where real gamers are older folks like me).
We grew up playing games on PC, some consoles were far more expensive than a 'decent' computer back then.

I remember this Tandy game, that had pong on it... costed an arm and 4 legs.

My dog still hates me for that.
Never comes when I call his name...

jkemmery

I'm male and my main is a female toon. One of the first games I played was Tomb Raider, so playing a female toon in a game is really nothing unusual for me. I don't see the character as an extension of myself, it's just a character in a game. For me it's just a lot more fun when creating a character to make an attractive female than some guy.

I do have many in-game female friends that I play with, and I do a lot of PvP where you are in TeamSpeak (I play on PC so there is no in game voice chat). I have heard on a few occasions heard some borderline sexist joking in TS. Most of the women players either just take it in stride or sling it back. All of these instances were just jokes, and I'm sure the people who said them intended them as such. I've never heard any "real" sexism from any of my guild mates, but again, I'm a guy so I'm not as sensitive or in tune to those things.

I appreciate the female gamers in ESO. I'm happy to have made friends with as many as I have, and it seems to me the community as a whole is generally welcoming and accepting, with the exception of the few d-bags that are inevitable.

Keep playing ESO! You make the place much nicer.

Lynnessa

I'd like to shed some light on why Xeven and others might protest a thread like this. It has to do with language, and with connotation.

The subject line of this thread, "For the Ladies - experience as a woman" establishes, from the outset, a sense of division. It creates an "us" and a "them". Denotatively, it is merely someone seeking communication from like-minded individuals. Connotatively, it suggests that females and males have different experiences in gaming simply because of their gender (an aside, this is true regardless of social setting--males and females have always and will always experience society differently). Take the connotation a bit further, and topics discussed in this thread can easily be construed as saying that if a female has had a negative experience, it is due to misogyny, which is not necessarily true. It's not unreasonable that some may react defensively.

The way language is used in relation to minorities and discrimination is unfortunate sometimes--simply by emphasizing differences, those differences can be perpetuated. If we can't change the way we all talk and think about such things--all of us, regardless of whether we belong to "us" or "them"--then discrimination will never go away. Personally, I don't think it ever will.

failkiwib16_ESO

I have met some females in the game who have encountered various levels of offences, however these same females tend to be extremely defensive, vocal about their opinions and if someone mistakes them for being a guy they make a big public case out of it... such attention seeking attitude and behavior attract a lot of trolls, of both female and male kind.

The other females that I have met have been like any other player out there. They get treated good in general, wether people know that they are females or not. If they encounter offences, it's usually not related to their gender.

---

In regard to sexualization, I personally like to make my female chars attractive, and I don't mind others sexualizing them - as long as they don't go too far up the creep scale. I mean pervyness and crude jokes are alright, but I have no intention of creating an intimate relationship or romantically invest in people I meet through ESO. I have an IRL husbando-coffee machine and that is enough for me.

I've experienced a random player telling a song about my char's beauty in zonechat lol and it didn't hurt anybody and gave me and my guildies a good laugh. It just got a bit creepy once he repeatedly tried to coerce me to remove my helmet, so he could see my pretty face, however he ended up getting chased and killed by guards because I was at the bank and he had a bounty on him
I have also experienced a player inviting me to friends list, and I thought fair, cool...shortly after he kept calling me baby, honey etc. and normally I wouldn't care, but this just got worse and worse + he kept asking personal questions - I just told him I was a man, it all stopped ^^

---

In regard of getting items etc.
I think in ESO it's easy if you are social and contribute to guilds or groups, because I spent millions on my guild, both females and males.
-if I know that they need something but struggle and can't get it in time and that it doesn't go to waste. I have also met male gamers who helped both males and females by giving them with gear, and spent hours helping them through content.

I think if I needed something, I could ask within my guilds and get it in seconds - but it's not because I am a female rather it's because I have contributed a lot to my guilds, and I have gained peoples trust. A lot of my friends and members from my own guild are still not aware that I'm a female, because I get called "bra, brah, bruh, bro, man, brother, dude" pretty often lol

CherryCake

've experienced a random player telling a song about my char's beauty in zonechat lol and it didn't hurt anybody and gave me and my guildies a good laugh.

You made me curious, would you like to show us your character? xD

RDMyers65b14_ESO

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I wonder if there is a difference in jerk rates between systems? My sister says she gets harassed much more on console than PC and I've wondered if the age of the average user is a factor?

Console is MUCH more child based.
PC on the other hand is the "hardcore console" for real gamers (where real gamers are older folks like me).
We grew up playing games on PC, some consoles were far more expensive than a 'decent' computer back then.

I remember this Tandy game, that had pong on it...

I remember the Tandy and Pong was my first console. For high school graduation, I received an Apple IIe. So, I fall into the category of 'older gamer'. When I was growing up, consoles were considered to be toys, not computers. Anything that was serious was on a pc. I remember that the majority of my classmates thought I was strange as 'girls don't play games'. I was considered weird because I was a girl who not only played games but had a computer. Played computer games. Yep, a complete nerd. I was also weird because I watched sci-fi and fantasy instead of soap operas.

Other MMORPGs that I tried in the past were a LOT more derogatory than ESO has been. The only comment here that I have received was not about my being a female but "Wow, you are old enough to be my grandmother."

Pchela

I mostly play as male characters in game, but it's not really a secret that I am a female IRL... I still get very disgusting hate tells in PVP, which are met with a simple "You okay bro?" and an addition to my ignore list.

I have never seen my gender play any part in how I play this game. That's not how I was raised. I sadly know some women who use their feminine wits and bat their eyelashes to get what they want, only to drop the dudes that they've swindled like they're hot... but blame the person not the gender.

waterfairy

Video games aren't a boys club anymore, MMO's and RPG's have a big female fan base.

As a man I welcome my gamer sisters and get angry with the dudes who disrespect them or make them feel uncomfortable playing....I'll mess with the guy in return and make them equally uncomfortable.

ArchMikem

Xeven wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

A "grown up" adult has the ability and responsibility to be kind and accepting and polite to others. A child does not. Telling someone to grow up for asking nicely to refrain from making detrimental comments is the perfect way of saying you, yourself, need some growing up to do.

I've read the whole thread. It's about how some men specifically, are jerks on the internet. Some men are cool though. Really? Well no ***. Don't be sexist though. I'll report you.

Was that directed at me? Or the person I was quoting?

ArchMikem

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

A "grown up" adult has the ability and responsibility to be kind and accepting and polite to others. A child does not. Telling someone to grow up for asking nicely to refrain from making detrimental comments is the perfect way of saying you, yourself, need some growing up to do.

I've read the whole thread. It's about how some men specifically, are jerks on the internet. Some men are cool though. Really? Well no ***. Don't be sexist though. I'll report you.

Dude, grow up.
We men in generally ARE jerks on the internet.
I'm not even going to start with "proof".
Join any a forum/game to see what I mean.

Thank you very much for proving my point.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Lynnessa wrote: »

I'd like to shed some light on why Xeven and others might protest a thread like this. It has to do with language, and with connotation.

The subject line of this thread, "For the Ladies - experience as a woman" establishes, from the outset, a sense of division. It creates an "us" and a "them". Denotatively, it is merely someone seeking communication from like-minded individuals. Connotatively, it suggests that females and males have different experiences in gaming simply because of their gender (an aside, this is true regardless of social setting--males and females have always and will always experience society differently). Take the connotation a bit further, and topics discussed in this thread can easily be construed as saying that if a female has had a negative experience, it is due to misogyny, which is not necessarily true. It's not unreasonable that some may react defensively.

The way language is used in relation to minorities and discrimination is unfortunate sometimes--simply by emphasizing differences, those differences can be perpetuated. If we can't change the way we all talk and think about such things--all of us, regardless of whether we belong to "us" or "them"--then discrimination will never go away. Personally, I don't think it ever will.

Well, it is in the mean time scientifically proven that men and women are not the same.
Men think very differently than women, and please note that I am NOT saying "women are less", merely pointing out a fact.
Thus women of course experience games, life, different than men.
Both sexes have their advantages, and disadvantages.
But they complete the other.
Still, I absolutely do not grasp where this anger (or as you so kindly put it: defense) is based on.
And for crying out loud, I have Asperger/Savant, so if anyone had to trip over something, it would've been me, rest assured.

Some just are the jerks I guess?

Ainnit odd that these folks feel addressed upon?

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

I remember the Tandy and Pong was my first console. For high school graduation, I received an Apple IIe. So, I fall into the category of 'older gamer'. When I was growing up, consoles were considered to be toys, not computers. Anything that was serious was on a pc. I remember that the majority of my classmates thought I was strange as 'girls don't play games'. I was considered weird because I was a girl who not only played games but had a computer. Played computer games. Yep, a complete nerd. I was also weird because I watched sci-fi and fantasy instead of soap operas.

Other MMORPGs that I tried in the past were a LOT more derogatory than ESO has been. The only comment here that I have received was not about my being a female but "Wow, you are old enough to be my grandmother."

My my, you're like me, but in a female body.
I remember back in half 1980/1990 where folks asked me: a 40!!!!MB drive?
What on EARTH will you do with that, you cannot EVER fill that thing up" lol...
How times change.

waterfairy

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Dude, grow up.
We men boys in generally ARE jerks on the internet.

Fixed for you

A grown ass man doesn't act like a jerk to women, that's some playground stuff that boys do to girls they like.

failkiwib16_ESO

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

Elsir wrote: »

No "OMG, YOU'RE A GIRL!?!?!" type reactions.

I think that died out in about 2009, at least on PC.

I thought so too.
I play on PC/EU server and never had any issues related to sexism. Its really sad if voice chat on consoles is so problematic.

@KoshkaMurka the starter zone chats like Auridon, Glenumbra, Stonefalls have usually discuss politics on a daily base, and sometimes they go further with gender and race based jokes. I have seen a bit of everything there lol the same players tend to behave better in other zones, so I guess it's those zones are just sh*tposting hotspots.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Vigarr wrote: »

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

Dude, grow up.
We men boys in generally ARE jerks on the internet.

Fixed for you

A grown ass man doesn't act like a jerk to women, that's some playground stuff that boys do to girls they like.

Thank you, you are the best.

failkiwib16_ESO

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

've experienced a random player telling a song about my char's beauty in zonechat lol and it didn't hurt anybody and gave me and my guildies a good laugh.

You made me curious, would you like to show us your character? xD

@EstelioVeleth lol it happened a while ago, so here's an old picture of how my char used to look ..sorry for the bad quality, it's the fastest picture I could find.

Highelf templar v14. (the image is ooold)

Xeven

Lynnessa wrote: »

I'd like to shed some light on why Xeven and others might protest a thread like this. It has to do with language, and with connotation.

The subject line of this thread, "For the Ladies - experience as a woman" establishes, from the outset, a sense of division. It creates an "us" and a "them". Denotatively, it is merely someone seeking communication from like-minded individuals. Connotatively, it suggests that females and males have different experiences in gaming simply because of their gender (an aside, this is true regardless of social setting--males and females have always and will always experience society differently). Take the connotation a bit further, and topics discussed in this thread can easily be construed as saying that if a female has had a negative experience, it is due to misogyny, which is not necessarily true. It's not unreasonable that some may react defensively.

The way language is used in relation to minorities and discrimination is unfortunate sometimes--simply by emphasizing differences, those differences can be perpetuated. If we can't change the way we all talk and think about such things--all of us, regardless of whether we belong to "us" or "them"--then discrimination will never go away. Personally, I don't think it ever will.

Defensively is not the word I would have used. I see what I see and I tell it like it is. I also found it interesting that you used the words minorities and discrimination. Women are the majority, and men have to deal with their own set of problems and discrimination. Let's be real here.

The fact is we are different and by that very definition, we can never be equal.

Men objectify women. That's why they make female characters with big boobs. That's why you see white knights in this thread telling me to grow up. You must be defended and cherished.

Women objectify men. Watch 50 Shades of Grey or Twilight. We should all be filthy rich with super human strength.

When you actually "grow up", you will see both sides of this coin for the BS that it all really is, and you don't make treads like these anymore. You accept your gender, and understand that the other gender has it's own set of problems and discrimination.

ArchMikem

Xeven wrote: »

Men objectify women. That's why they make female characters with big boobs.

slowly hides my Khajiit...

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

ArchMikem wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Men objectify women. That's why they make female characters with big boobs.

slowly hides my Khajiit...

Well, he's got a point there.
I only play males, but yes, I've seen this first hand...