The Bloodletter: An Evolution to Sap Tanking (Nightblade Tank Build, Homestead Ready)

Gilliamtherogue
Gilliamtherogue
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Greetings once again denizens of Tamriel! Gilliam here again with another in depth look at one of my personal builds, this time from a tanking perspective. I've posted a tank build in the past, but it was more of a simple glance at the mess of what I threw together for pledges. This time around I've fleshed out a much more rich purpose and vision for the build, and have made many changes I had been anticipating once I saw the new sets that launched with the Thieves Guild patch. Without further ado, here's a brief look at some of the basics of my build. I will break down further below, for those who are interested in my reasoning/math behind some of the stuff.

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Now for the more nitty gritty details. Here are some simple statements about the build itself- a mix of pros and cons.

-This build revolves around heavy self healing as well as AoE potential. Almost all of my healing abilities/procs grow exponentially in power based on the targets they hit, meaning this build actually gets stronger the more mobs there are. This is rather unique to the build, as many other setups begin struggling the more mobs there are, while this thrives in those situations.

-The identity of the build is a bit more selfish at self glance, compared to the more high end 'meta' builds that competitive guilds run. While it does sacrifice ultimate generation from things such as Tava's Blessing and Bloodspawn for more uptime on Aggressive Warhorn, it allows the healers of the group to focus more on damage and buffing allies instead. It's more of a redistribution of power, rather than a simple gain and loss.

-The item sets from this build all drop from 4 mans or can be bought (BoE), so no trail raiding required! The hardest set to nab will be Leeching, and we'll talk about swappable sets while you work towards that.

-Resource management is truly a breeze with this setup, and gains in ease the more targets there are. It increases in potential with more mastery, since we will net a massive influx of resources if we begin weaving (difficult, but rewarding!)

-Not only does this build have self healing and sustain, but it provides a decent amount of damage as well. I can easily pull upwards of 30k on trash pulls, I can sometimes get around 6-10k single target too, depending on the fight and RNG procs.

Here's a short demonstration of tanking a large group of mobs and what resource management looks like;

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Ability breakdown

While I did cover the abilities in the video, I will explain further why I run things as well as some interchangeable setups.

Sword and Board Bar;
Pierce Armor: Our main taunt available to us, bound to melee range. This applies Major Breach and Fracture to ensure your group members regardless of spec benefit from 24/7 up time on these. It provides 10.56% damage against mobs and 8% damage against v16 players. Make sure you apply this to the major threats in a trash pull, as well as any others around if possible. Remember, the more targets hitting you, the stronger you'll be.

Funnel Health: Unlike DPS builds, this will NOT be our main spammable. Since this skill operates by applying a Heal over Time for 10 seconds, we'll only be casting it a few times every 10s. If you want more self healing instead of group healing, take Swallow Soul.

Sap Essence: Our main form of spammable AoE DPS and heals, also granting us Major Sorcery for a little bit more damage. Keep in mind that Sap and Swallow both scale with Spell Damage, and Swallow scales multiplicatively since the heal is based on damage done. Sap also procs Siphoning Attacks at an absurdly high rate in AoE circumstances, as each of the enemies hit with it has a 10% chance to proc it, once per second. Cast this over Funnel Health if the HoT is already applied from Funnel.

Absorb Magic: Mainly this ability is used simply as a passive slot, for 8% block cost reduction and a bonus 8% block mitigation. However in some scenarios this spell alone can allow you to negate damage and heal instead, allowing a healer to focus purely on damage. Any time a single target SPELL is casted on you, this procs. Knowing fights ahead of time is key for when to use this, so make sure you study the mechanics of a fight and look for places you can utilize this spell for truly incredible results.

Siphoning Attacks: While just a former shadow of itself since the nerfs with Thieves Guild, this skill still allows Nightblades to bypass a lot of resource management issues. This now takes a bit more situational understanding to use, and forces us to drop block for a few fractions of a second here and there to light attack mobs for the base proc + the chance to proc on abilities. If your sense of timing is off this can easily spell death in sticky situations or when fighting beefier mobs such as the Mantikora from Sanctum.

Restoration Staff Bar or 2nd SnB;
Merciless Resolve: A simple and small buff for keeping up, 8% bonus damage and does hefty damage after 4 light attacks. Since we're weaving with Siphoning Attacks up, this should be ready to proc fairly frequently. Just remember that your job is to tank, so don't get caught up trying to rotate this perfectly. We mainly slot this for the Assassination passive, plus 8% damage means 8% more healing on Swallow Soul and Tether.
*Interchangeable with*
Mirage: A reliable source of Major Evasion that lasts a decent duration. It also costs Magicka instead of Stamina, allowing us to block even more. This helps lower incoming damage tremendously but will also lower the efficiency of our Leeching and Malubeth. Still, a very solid skill that synergizes amazingly with sets such as Tava's Favor.

Rapid Regeneration: A small HoT since we don't have terribly high spell damage and max magicka, but that's besides the point. The real reason to run this is when paired with the Maelstrom Restoration Staff, which gives you 481 magicka back whenever it crits, every 4 seconds. Since this can be casted on multiple people, it pretty much procs every 4 seconds, with a 16.5 second duration. With 4 procs per cast, that's 1924 magicka return on a 1609 skill cost (for me), so a net gain. While this isn't earth shattering or even really noticeable, it's still something and the slot was open anyways.
*Interchangeable with*
If you don't take the Resto Staff route, use this as a flex spot with whatever you want! I suggest running Merciless to amp your Funnel Health healing.

Inner Rage: The only ranged taunt in game, used for pulls where you can't devout yourself to running straight to the adds or boss. This helps a lot in places like vICP where there are a lot of high priority targets spread out that you need to get before they reach your allies. Make sure you take this morph so you have 1 taunt that uses different resources so you have a back up in case you somehow run out of a resource. This morph also has an increased chance to proc the Radiate synergy, which is one of the strongest synergies in game for DPS.

Refreshing Path: Usually I really detest this skill for casters, as it severely under performs compared to Twisting Path damage wise, but the heal scales incredibly well due to the CP system. Since this build isn't a full on damage setup, this isn't as much of an issue, and the need for a Shadow ability that would be casted ~ once every 10 seconds to ensure Major Ward/Resolve for mitigation leaves Refreshing as a much more reasonable fill. Add on all the bonus healing taken and this becomes a lot stronger than the tool tip would suggest.

Dark Shades: You may have realized I didn't suggest Heroic Slash with this build on our SnB bar. That's because this beauty of a spell lasts almost double the duration, doesn't have a high cost, and has multiple target potential. It also activates some passives for us, really making it much easier than Slash to manage for the Minor Maim buff. Keep this up on any bosses, to really help control damage output.

Gear Setups

Optimal; 5 Leeching: This is a 5 piece set that has had me drooling over the notion of sap tanking since the day I saw it. Immediately brushed off by most players since the seemingly low proc chance and uninteresting Healing Taken set bonuses, I had grander plans for it. Once I saw a few other sets I figured I'd finally swallow the pain and get back to grinding vICP for this, and boy am I glad. While this set is affected by mob mitigation, which in turn lowers the damage and healing it does- the healing gained from the damage does gain from all % healing passives. Sadly this set can no longer crit, but it still provides amazing results. DPS and Healing both in one, that scales based on targets around you- this set is a keystone to the identity of this build. With an 8% chance to proc per damage tick taken, this easily begins to ramp up in fights with a lot of damage sources, and has no ICD, meaning it can proc while one is already up and stack. This actually scales in power with CP as well from the following trees; Mighty (poison damage), Thaumaturge, Blessed, Spell Erosion, and Quick Recovery.
*Interchangeable with*
On single target fights, the proc rate of this will be rather low. In this case we swap to 5 Sanctuary (Obtainable from Banished Cells I & II normal or vet) to amplify the group's healing received by a whopping 12%. Just make sure you run 3 Jewelry and 2 Weapons so that you can retain maximum efficiency with Heavy Armor, since this set only drops in Light.


5 Bahraha's Curse: This set drops from Hew's Bane zone events (bosses, chests, etc) as well as the quests for the Thieves Guild. This means it's kind of hard to obtain in the ideal, but far from Leeching difficulty. Again this set is kind of brushed off by most players for its wonky looking bonuses. With a staggering 25% chance to proc off of any damage DONE, this means this set is up almost indefinitely. It does have an ICD of the duration of the proc itself, so you will not see more than one up at a time. This is alright though, as the AoE is rather sizable for a proc (About 3-4m) and everything in it triggers the damage and heal. Again like Leeching, mob mitigation lowers the effectiveness, so penetration is good for healing as well. The minor set bonuses of this give us a bit of well rounded stats, with Max Health+Stamina+Magicka. This also scales in power with CP, similar to Leeching. The following trees boost the set; Elemental Expert (magic damage), Thaumaturge, Blessed, Spell Erosion, and Quick Recovery. The trap damage reduction granted by this set actually works inside trials when taking AoE damage, leaving it to be deceptively powerful.

2 Malubeth: A monster helm obtained from Veteran Wayrest Sewers and Undaunted Chests, with a chance to be put in the Cyordiil vendor every weekend. This set takes everything this build can do and multiplies the values by a ground breaking 30%, in form of Major Vitality. The only downside is the set has a lower proc chance than anything else in our kit, at 6% per damage source taken. Still, in large density pulls this set is going off quite a bit. It's received a few nerfs due to the toxicity of this set in Cyrodiil, but it has everything we need for big AoE fights in PvE.
Again this scales with CP, however I have not fully tested which nodes it all scales with. I know Blessed and Quick Recovery have this scale, but I'm not sure if the offensive nodes do.

Honorable Mentions or alternatives (break away from identity of build, more 'meta' esque);

5 Alkosh (Obtainable from Maw of Lorkhaj, any difficulty): While this strays far away from the identiy of this build, the group damage potential from this set is staggering. Reducing Armor (Physical and Spell Resistance) by a whopping 3010, it enables tons and tons of group wide DPS in trials. I don't like all that much in 4 man groups however.

5 Tava's Blessing (Craftable set from Hew's Bane) : Again going into more of a utility meta role, this set enables absurd ultimate generation. Just make sure you pair Mirage with this to make use of the 5 piece.

2 Bloodspawn (Obtainable from Spindleclutch II) : An alternative to Malubeth, that also gives you spikes of Ultimate generation as well as some much desired Resistances for mitigation. The stamina regeneration bonus is a bit wasted for the most part, but the 2 piece is the main focus here. If you're trying to dish out more Warhorns for the group, I'd pair this with Tava's on a Nightblade tank since we have the highest Ulti gen in game for truly efficient results.

2 Swarm Mothers (Obtainable from Spindleclutch I): Since we lack any form of Chains, this set will help pull enemies to you if you block their attacks. This means you'll need to hold block and taunt them for it to work.



Traits;

Armor: The truly optimal setup for this build has you running Infused on every Major armor slot with Prismatic Enchants. This allows our stat pools to be enormous for a tanking role, giving us plenty of room for a rotation and healthy block/bash/dodge pool. I then run the Sturdy trait on our minor pieces to get a little bit of block cost reduction for trials, although it's not needed with this build.

Weapons & Shield: For group utility, go with an Infused 1h weapon to buff up the enchant. Otherwise you can run Powered for group healing, Sharpened for self healing (to increase damage of Bahraha's, Funnel, and Leeching), Decisive for stupid high ultimate generation, or Defending for tankiness. Go with either Reinforced or Infused on the Shield (you can't get Nirnhoned Leeching or Bahraha's Curse).

Jewelry: I run all 3 slots as Arcane, as my offensive spells scale dually in nature with damage and heals. This allows me to become even more self sufficient, so my group can focus on them instead of me. You can run pretty much whatever trait here, based on your preference. Arcane is definitely the most efficient in my opinion though. In trials you may want to opt to take Healthy or Robust depending on your race and stats.

If you're looking for mathematical data here are the values for possible traits;
Infused legendary: 20% bonus enchant
Reinforced legendary: 16% bonus to Armor's rating (gives armor and spell res)
Divines legendary: 7.5% bonus to Mundus Stone

Running Prismatic enchants + Infused is a 20% bonus to 434 Max Magicka and Stamina, and 477 Max Health. This ups the enchant to 520 Max Magixa and Stamina, and 572 Max health; a gain of 86 Magicka and Stamina, and 95 Max Health. This doesn't seem like much, as it's only ~8.9% of the value of a single resource pool set bonus (967 stamina/magicka and 1064 Health), but multiplied by 3 it's 26.7% of a set bonus gained (a little over 1/5th). This means after 5 infused prismatic enchants, you're gaining a whole additional set bonus worth of stats.

Reinforced changes based on the armor piece it is applied to. The order of highest to lowest Armor Rating is as follows; Chest > Helmet, Shoulders, Boots, Legs > Gloves > Belt. Let's look at the first two orders of power to get a more ideal picture.
Trait-less Legendary Chest: 2772 Armor Rating
Trait-less Legendary Helm/Shoulder/Boots/Legs: 2425 Armor Rating
Reinforced Legendary Chest: 3215 Armor Rating (+443, or .67% damage mitigation)
Reinforced Legendary Helm/Shoulder/Boots/Legs: 2813 Armor Rating (+388, or .58% damage mitigation)

A legendary set bonus of Armor or Spell resist is 1935, but since Armor Rating gives both of these we need to multiply the efficiency value by 2, since it's getting two different set bonuses in one. 443/1935 = 22.89% x 2 = 45.79% the value of a set bonus, meaning after 2 (technically 3 but let's round up) you're getting an additional set bonus of mitigation. This seems to be more than double the value of Infused paired with Prismatic enchants, but mitigation is valued in a different way than resources. Let's convert mitigation to something called Effective Health, which pretty much means how much health you gain by lowering the amount of damage you take. For example if I take a hit of 5000 but mitigate 10% of it, or 500, I have effectively gained 500 health in the process, since I ignored that much damage. Since Effective Health changes in value based on the amount of damage received, let's look at the epitome of values, Mantikora. Mantikora is currently the heaviest hitting mob in the game, hitting upwards of 50k true damage (no mitigation, block, etc). With this build we have ~ 26500 mitigation in the final setup, which is ~40% damage mitigation (50% is cap), so that 50k now becomes 30k. Now apply our CP passive Hardy of 16% Physical reduction, which makes 30k into 25,200. Then apply block which is a base of 50% mitigation, then add 20% of that from Sword and Board passive which makes it 60% damage mitigation, and then apply the 8% from Absorb Magic which gives us a final mitigation of 64.8% mitigation while blocking and it becomes 8870 incoming damage. This means against Mantikora our Effective Health is increased by 41,130, since we mitigate that much damage when he attacks with his Power Attack. To find out where Reinforced fits into Effective Health we simply go back and add in the value of one Reinforced trait to our mitigation values and then finish the calculation and look at how much incoming damage we take. 26500 becomes 26943 so we take 50k x (100-(26943/660)) = 29590 x (1-.16) = 24855 x (1-.648) = 8749 incoming damage. That's 121 effective health for one Legendary Reinforced Trait. Recall Infused's Prismatic value of 95 Health and 86 Magicka AND Stamina, which both get increased by % passives such as racials/etc. We can clearly see that Infused is now more efficient in every way possible to Reinforced in this build.

On Shields this changes a little bit. A base Legendary Shield has an Armor Rating of 3010, while Reinforced has a Rating of 3491. a 481 increase compared to a 443 increase is rather marginal, so if you have a lot of % amps for stats, go with Infused instead of Reinforced on your Shield, and pop another Prismatic on there. Since my tank is a Khajiit, I don't have as many useful passives as other races, so I opt for Reinforced.

Mundus Stone, Consumables, and Enchants

With this build there are two pretty clear cut choices to run; Atronach or Ritual. They each offer unique utilities, and the choice kind of depends based on what race you are.

Atronach Stone base: 210 Magicka Regen
Ritual Stone base: 10% bonus healing

Since we run no divines these are rather static, although Magica Regen gets some minor amps thanks to CP (20.4% for my allocation) and a few other passives. Refreshing Shadows grants a 15% bonus and Recovery grants 4%. If you drink a tri pot you also gain another 20% bonus. Each of these adds separately as follows
210 + (210 x .204)42.84 + (210 x .15)31.5 + (210 x .04)8.4 + (210 x .20)42 for a total of 334 Magicka Regen. You can add in another 10% if you're a High Elf, but that's pushing the sustain past where it's pretty much impossible to run out.

The 10% bonus healing from Ritual stone is a static % that gets added separately to healing, similar to how the regen sources added. This means you'll simply get a bonus 10% healing done (not received!) which is nothing to laugh at. I average about 6k single target to 10k aoe HPS with my current setup (non optimal remember) so the ritual would add a bonus 600-1k+ HPS in efficiency. Pretty nice, but I prefer regeneration so I can ensure I never run out of Magicka.

Make sure to run the Orzorga's Red Frothgar, which is Maximum Health and Magicka Regeneration food. This ensures maximum sustain management as well as some bonus Health for taking more damage. You can opt to take Tri food or even Bi food if you feel your sustain is fine without this.

If you're tanking Trials or with groups that have Healing Orbs and Minor Magickasteal, go with Tri Stat food to buffer up all of your stat pools.

I also run Tri Pots for clutch moments where I need that little added health or magicka back, although this is rare. This also gives us a flat 20% bonus to all regeneration sources, which is pretty nice. Sap Essence gives us Major Sorcery for damage/healing potential, so running Spell Power Pots would be silly. You can also run Major Mending potions now, to bring this build to entirely new heights in terms of healing.

Armor/Shield Enchants: As stated in the trait section, I run all Prismatic Enchants on my Armor+Shield. This is because you get half of the value of a normal enchant, but three. This means you have 150% bonus overall enchantments, per Prismatic. At a total of 8 possible enchants, that's 4 (8 x 1.5 = 12 enchant values) additional enchantments you couldn't have gotten otherwise.

Weapon Enchants: I opt to run the Crushing Enchant to ensure my team does maximum damage. However in a situation where all team members are Caster spec, you are free to run whatever you like. From a tanking perspective none of the enchants are all too great mitigation or resource wise, due to the 6 second ICD to enchants, so I still run Crushing even if no one is around to benefit from it. The Maelstrom Restoration staff also has a unique enchant, and applying a new enchant removes it, so don't do that!

Jewelry Enchants: Most tank builds run the same exact setup for jewelry; 3 Block/Bash Cost reduction enchants to ensure the least amount of stamina drain possible. However, thanks to Siphoning Attacks we don't need these enchants! Since this is the case, I'm able to run 2 Magicka Regen enchants and 1 Spell Damage enchant. This is to help my Magicka sustain to stay at a high enough rate where I can spam all my healing skills and never run out, which also means I can keep proccing Siphoning Attacks for Stamina. This means my Magicka Regen operates as a pseudo Stamina Regen, that I actually benefit from while blocking. The Spell Damage enchant is for bonus damage and healing done with my spells as well. If mitigation enchants (armor/resist) got buffed, I could potentially see running one, but at 927 Armor OR Spell Resistance (1.4% mitigation) there just isn't enough efficiency gained.

Race Choices

Honestly from a tank perspective, racials are more fluff due to the nature of the game. You're pretty free to choose what you want based on play style or even appearance. However, there still is optimal choices based on what you're looking for. Here's a brief breakdown of the top of the line races.

Argonian: Yes, you read that right. Argonian's have one thing that no other race has, and it's unparalleled resource management for EACH resource pool; 12% resources returned on potion consumption (45 second cooldown if you keep it up 100%). To put that in perspective, the ideal setup of this build is looking to have around 30k health, 20k magicka, and 18k stamina. That translates to 3600 health, 2400 Magicka, and 2160 Stamina back every time you drink a potion, or 80 Health regen, 53 Magicka regen, and 48 Stamina regen. While weaker than a flat boost to a single resource, this covers them all. Not only do Argonians have great sustain, but they also have a hefty 9% Health bonus, which is nothing to laugh at. This easily equates to ~ 2 set bonuses of Max health when applied to this build. Finally, we have another really nice passive of 9% bonus healing received. This is a slightly weaker Ritual Mundus stone (1% less), which is a pretty nice bonus to our healing potential. Finally, a use for Argonians!

Altmer: Any caster oriented build can find itself scaling exceptionally well with this race. With a great bonus to Max Magicka (10%) as well as Magicka Regeneration (another 10%) they are definitely the option to go for a more offensive look to this build. The Max Magicka will let your offensive and healing spells do more, so you'll be more efficient. Not only that but the bonus regen will let you spec other sources into different stats. You could opt to only run 1 Magicka Regen enchant and 2 Spell Damage, or use the Ritual over The Atronach.

Dunmer: With 9% Max Magicka, 6% Max Stamina, Increased Fire/Lightning/and Ice Damage, AND 3.15% Fire damage reduction (2079 Flame Resist) the Dunmer now contests as an extremely capable race for non-Dragonknights. The Max Magicka helps increase our damage and sustain, while Max Stamina increases our blocking capabilities. The Elemental damage increase is mute since we run only Magic+Poison damage in this build, but it's great if you plan on switching between DPS + Tank.

Imperial: The sturdy Imperial always serves a nice purpose for tank builds. An unparalleled bonus to Health (12%) and a nice boon to Stamina (10%) leaves them with sizable resource pools. However this build is primarily Magicka and it has no benifit to that. To make up for this though, there is the West Star passive, which gives a nice little bit of Health back on Melee attacks.

Nord: A truly under appreciated race overall, this is by far the best race for a full on tank. The 6% raw damage mitigation offers so much effective health and allows you to reach a damage mitigation no other race can hit. Pair that with a 9% Max Health bonus and you're going to be one beefy tank. The Health Regen passive is a bit shoddy, but it serves better on a tank than any other role.

Champion Point Allocation

This is what I like for the current 600 CP cap. Try and hit these numbers as you progress, focusing mainly on the nodes with the highest dump in them first.
The Mage
100 Blessed
75 Elemental Expert
1 Elfborn
8 Spell Erosion
16 Thaumaturge
Progression; Focus on Blessed and Elemental Expert first. Once you hit those numbers, start splitting between the rest at your own pace.

The Warrior
89 Hardy
89 Elemental Defender
1 Thick Skinned
1 Expert defender
20 Quick Recovery
Progression; Focus on Ele Defender and Hardy first, and then start filling in the rest.

The Thief
100 Magician
75 Arcanist
25 Shadow Ward
Progression; Put 10 into Shadow Ward first, then 75 into Magician, then 30 into Arcanist, and then fill in any order after you've hit those numbers.
Edited by Gilliamtherogue on March 10, 2017 5:15PM
Founder and guild lead of The Order of Mundus. Old member of Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. Stay strong my brethren, our day will return.
In game Feats;
Patch 1.6/2.0 #1 in all Trials on NA, and World Record vDSA
Patch 1.7/2.1 #1 in AA/SO on NA, and World Record vDSA and HRC.
Patch 1.8/2.2 #1 in all trials on NA.
NA PC first clear of vMoL with Crown Store Heroes and friends.
NA PC first clear of Hard mode vMoL + Dro-m’Athra Destroyer title with The Order of Mundus.
NA PC first clear of all Hard mode Trials after Tamriel Unlimited update.
Current NA Record holder of Stamina Nightblade, All Sorcerers, and All Templars in vMA.
Co-Founder and website author of thearcaneacademy.com
Lead PvE Build author at deltiasgaming.com/
Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue
  • Anti_Virus
    Anti_Virus
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    Nice build, bumping this thread.
    Let the sun melt your body so that you may flow through the rivers of time.
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
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    Thanks for sharing Gilliam. I will swing back by later to re-read and pay more attention to the little details. A couple of things I note at first glance:

    Double-Take is a major source of mitigation, and with a magicka-based setup it will be very easy to incorporate. I usually run it on my primary bar (but I don't do a 1h+s / resto setup, I do 2h+s on both bars). Since it doesn't provide any notable passive benefits for your tanking bar, it could just as easily be put on your resto bar, which would up you crit chance for healing.

    I really appreciate that you showcased Bahraha's Curse here with Leeching. I've done pretty extensive testing on both. I ran Leeching the second I finished my ~200th run and got my last piece. I can, with confidence, say that right now Bahraha's is superior, which is great for anyone taking the opportunity to glance through this showcase and is considering giving it a shot, because it is substantially easier to obtain. There are a couple of major reasons why this is better than Leeching:

    1) The up-time on it is far superior, and is at the beck and call of the tank. We can proc this by choice, rather than waiting for an enemy to attack us. 2) The damage dealt by Bahraha's is of the Magic type, meaning it scales from the CP we're using as magicka NB tanks (e.g. Elemental Expert, Elfborn, Thauma). Leeching would scale from Mighty and Thauma, so the synergy potential is far greater with Bahraha's for a magicka tank. One minor correction for you here, all due respect, but Bahraha's ICD is actually shorter than the duration of the proc itself. You can proc the next AoE before the first one wears off, but only by a fraction of a second. This means that potential maximum up-time is 100%.

    I might also suggest using Deep Slash (from 1h+s) instead of Shadow Image, because Deep Slash hits 3 targets instead of 1, meaning you have 3x the likelihood of a Siphoning Attacks proc for one cast. 2). You lose a negligible amount of health for this trade, the real concern is having the stamina to cast it reliably.

    A couple of general side-notes:
    - NB tanks need very little recovery due to Siphoning Attacks. I run with <1k magicka or stam recovery.
    - A setup like this benefits most when stacked with very high max magicka. If resources are proving not to be an issue, stack spell damage on jewelry glyphs. Sap Essence ensures your Major Sorcery is up 100% of the time, and virtually everything in this build will be stronger with magicka. As such, I recommend the Mage over the Atronach.
    - Bahraha's Curse is one of the best self-healing tanking sets for dungeons in the game currently. Very, very little can take down a NB tank running 5pc Footman and 5pc BC, if done properly and with enough practice. I've pulled entire floors of WGT and held them without a healer using this set, for as long as I see fit (yes, I'm serious, for as long as I see fit. I do this in vWGT and vIP to skip trash, and while I'm holding everything and self-healing, my group goes stealth so as to avoid unnecessary deaths).

    Thank you for noting the advtanges of Argonian passives in this showcase. People tend to not even look at Argonian passives anymore, simply writing them off because that's the cool thing to do now. But Argonians arguably have the best tanking racials in the game. Healing received is much more important than people tend to give it credit for, and has been the case since we only had HRC and AA (not a ton of healing received, but Argonians have the luxury of stacking it more easily or foregoing it on their gear entirely). The resource regains from the potion passives are incredibly useful for tanking, restoring a superior amount of resources to any other race. This becomes especially effective when paired with NB siphoning passives (ult gain for drinking a potion) and something like Tava's Blessing or Blood Spawn.

    Thanks Gilliam! I'll drop by later to say hello again.
    Edited by Autolycus on April 4, 2016 9:15PM
  • Gilliamtherogue
    Gilliamtherogue
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    Autolycus wrote: »
    Double-Take is a major source of mitigation, and with a magicka-based setup it will be very easy to incorporate. I usually run it on my primary bar (but I don't do a 1h+s / resto setup, I do 2h+s on both bars). Since it doesn't provide any notable passive benefits for your tanking bar, it could just as easily be put on your resto bar, which would up you crit chance for healing.

    One minor correction for you here, all due respect, but Bahraha's ICD is actually shorter than the duration of the proc itself. You can proc the next AoE before the first one wears off, but only by a fraction of a second. This means that potential maximum up-time is 100%.

    I might also suggest using Deep Slash (from 1h+s) instead of Shadow Image, because Deep Slash hits 3 targets instead of 1, meaning you have 3x the likelihood of a Siphoning Attacks proc for one cast. 2). You lose a negligible amount of health for this trade, the real concern is having the stamina to cast it reliably.

    A couple of general side-notes:
    - NB tanks need very little recovery due to Siphoning Attacks. I run with <1k magicka or stam recovery.
    - A setup like this benefits most when stacked with very high max magicka. If resources are proving not to be an issue, stack spell damage on jewelry glyphs. Sap Essence ensures your Major Sorcery is up 100% of the time, and virtually everything in this build will be stronger with magicka. As such, I recommend the Mage over the Atronach.
    - Bahraha's Curse is one of the best self-healing tanking sets for dungeons in the game currently. Very, very little can take down a NB tank running 5pc Footman and 5pc BC, if done properly and with enough practice. I've pulled entire floors of WGT and held them without a healer using this set, for as long as I see fit (yes, I'm serious, for as long as I see fit. I do this in vWGT and vIP to skip trash, and while I'm holding everything and self-healing, my group goes stealth so as to avoid unnecessary deaths).

    Thanks Gilliam! I'll drop by later to say hello again.

    Double Take is fantastic for damage mitigation, but since my setup revolves around receiving damage to proc Leeching+Malubeth, this actually lowers the efficiency of these sets. I heal more damage than I would have dodged, with minor exceptions such as tanking Mantikora.

    I haven't noticed that happen with Bahraha's, I'll have to keep a closer eye on it. Thanks for that bit of information, I'm interested in seeing what the maximum yield is then!

    That's a very good point with Deep Slash, but my main bar is extremely rigid in terms of slots. I could opt to move Siphoning Attacks to my back bar in order to run this, but I really prefer the ability to cast Siphoning without having to bar swap. Shadowy Imagine is more of a tool I run for fun, rather than maim. I haven't noticed a situation where I needed more mobs to have their damage reduced, as you've mentioned the ability to tank whole floors of dungeons, which I am familiar with.

    -On AoE pulls this is true, however on single target fights where Siphoning Attack's efficiency takes a dip since it can't proc on as many targets I like to have a little bit of a buffer. I'll try swapping to spell damage on jewelry over regen and see how it feels.
    -Agreed, I just have really high Stamina here because I had swapped over from my normal Stamina DPS build. Once I get optimal gear pieces I'll get some proper screen shots and showcases.

    Thanks for your feedback, information and new view points like these is how I'm able to flesh out more well rounded and accurate builds.
    Founder and guild lead of The Order of Mundus. Old member of Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. Stay strong my brethren, our day will return.
    In game Feats;
    Patch 1.6/2.0 #1 in all Trials on NA, and World Record vDSA
    Patch 1.7/2.1 #1 in AA/SO on NA, and World Record vDSA and HRC.
    Patch 1.8/2.2 #1 in all trials on NA.
    NA PC first clear of vMoL with Crown Store Heroes and friends.
    NA PC first clear of Hard mode vMoL + Dro-m’Athra Destroyer title with The Order of Mundus.
    NA PC first clear of all Hard mode Trials after Tamriel Unlimited update.
    Current NA Record holder of Stamina Nightblade, All Sorcerers, and All Templars in vMA.
    Co-Founder and website author of thearcaneacademy.com
    Lead PvE Build author at deltiasgaming.com/
    Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue
  • Kartalin
    Kartalin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm still leveling my magicka nightblade (have tried it on my bosmer and didn't feel I was reaching my potential), but I've got 4 pieces of Elf Bane saved up with good traits (divines with infused on big). Is there a place for that set in a sap build like this? Like maybe 5 Bahrara's Curse, 4 Elf Bane, and 2 Blood Spawn? I'm asking based on what I have available versus trying to get Leeching which I assume took a lot of work for the right traits.
    ~800 CP
    Kartalin, AD Stamblade, AR 34
    Karllotta, AD Magplar, AR 33
    Others:
    Larinon, AD StamDK, AR 16
    Tarkilan, DC Magplar, AR 16
    Miralys, AD MagSorc, AR 14
    M'Lia Dharven, DC Stamblade, AR 14
    -Issac Dian, EP Stamblade, AR 10
    Kerkenez, AD Magblade, AR 9
    Charllotta, EP Magplar, AR 6
    Llanira, AD MagDK, AR 3
    Tertiary Meat - Republic of Bananas - Angry Barbers - NA/PC
    @ Larinon - Youtube
  • nordickittyhawk
    nordickittyhawk
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nightblade tanks:

    clapping_joker_batman_dark_knight.gif
  • Gilliamtherogue
    Gilliamtherogue
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kartalin wrote: »
    I'm still leveling my magicka nightblade (have tried it on my bosmer and didn't feel I was reaching my potential), but I've got 4 pieces of Elf Bane saved up with good traits (divines with infused on big). Is there a place for that set in a sap build like this? Like maybe 5 Bahrara's Curse, 4 Elf Bane, and 2 Blood Spawn? I'm asking based on what I have available versus trying to get Leeching which I assume took a lot of work for the right traits.

    If I were to replace Leeching I'd likely take something like Tava's Blessing for ulti gen, or the usual Hist Bark/Armor Master. Armor Master would give some much favored mitigation, and since resource management isn't really an issue you don't feel the constraint of having to cast Evasion. Hist Bark is a lot easier/brainless since you just gain the benefit whenever you hold block, and has no operational cost aside from other sets you could have run. If you're newer to tanking try that out.

    From a PvP approach though, 4 Elfbane sounds fine for some extra damage in there, and you could activate a 2 or 3 piece bonus on your off bar if you decide to run SnB on your back bar over a resto, or a non Maelstrom Resto staff.
    Founder and guild lead of The Order of Mundus. Old member of Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. Stay strong my brethren, our day will return.
    In game Feats;
    Patch 1.6/2.0 #1 in all Trials on NA, and World Record vDSA
    Patch 1.7/2.1 #1 in AA/SO on NA, and World Record vDSA and HRC.
    Patch 1.8/2.2 #1 in all trials on NA.
    NA PC first clear of vMoL with Crown Store Heroes and friends.
    NA PC first clear of Hard mode vMoL + Dro-m’Athra Destroyer title with The Order of Mundus.
    NA PC first clear of all Hard mode Trials after Tamriel Unlimited update.
    Current NA Record holder of Stamina Nightblade, All Sorcerers, and All Templars in vMA.
    Co-Founder and website author of thearcaneacademy.com
    Lead PvE Build author at deltiasgaming.com/
    Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Autolycus wrote: »
    Double-Take is a major source of mitigation, and with a magicka-based setup it will be very easy to incorporate. I usually run it on my primary bar (but I don't do a 1h+s / resto setup, I do 2h+s on both bars). Since it doesn't provide any notable passive benefits for your tanking bar, it could just as easily be put on your resto bar, which would up you crit chance for healing.

    One minor correction for you here, all due respect, but Bahraha's ICD is actually shorter than the duration of the proc itself. You can proc the next AoE before the first one wears off, but only by a fraction of a second. This means that potential maximum up-time is 100%.

    I might also suggest using Deep Slash (from 1h+s) instead of Shadow Image, because Deep Slash hits 3 targets instead of 1, meaning you have 3x the likelihood of a Siphoning Attacks proc for one cast. 2). You lose a negligible amount of health for this trade, the real concern is having the stamina to cast it reliably.

    A couple of general side-notes:
    - NB tanks need very little recovery due to Siphoning Attacks. I run with <1k magicka or stam recovery.
    - A setup like this benefits most when stacked with very high max magicka. If resources are proving not to be an issue, stack spell damage on jewelry glyphs. Sap Essence ensures your Major Sorcery is up 100% of the time, and virtually everything in this build will be stronger with magicka. As such, I recommend the Mage over the Atronach.
    - Bahraha's Curse is one of the best self-healing tanking sets for dungeons in the game currently. Very, very little can take down a NB tank running 5pc Footman and 5pc BC, if done properly and with enough practice. I've pulled entire floors of WGT and held them without a healer using this set, for as long as I see fit (yes, I'm serious, for as long as I see fit. I do this in vWGT and vIP to skip trash, and while I'm holding everything and self-healing, my group goes stealth so as to avoid unnecessary deaths).

    Thanks Gilliam! I'll drop by later to say hello again.

    Double Take is fantastic for damage mitigation, but since my setup revolves around receiving damage to proc Leeching+Malubeth, this actually lowers the efficiency of these sets. I heal more damage than I would have dodged, with minor exceptions such as tanking Mantikora.

    I haven't noticed that happen with Bahraha's, I'll have to keep a closer eye on it. Thanks for that bit of information, I'm interested in seeing what the maximum yield is then!

    That's a very good point with Deep Slash, but my main bar is extremely rigid in terms of slots. I could opt to move Siphoning Attacks to my back bar in order to run this, but I really prefer the ability to cast Siphoning without having to bar swap. Shadowy Imagine is more of a tool I run for fun, rather than maim. I haven't noticed a situation where I needed more mobs to have their damage reduced, as you've mentioned the ability to tank whole floors of dungeons, which I am familiar with.

    -On AoE pulls this is true, however on single target fights where Siphoning Attack's efficiency takes a dip since it can't proc on as many targets I like to have a little bit of a buffer. I'll try swapping to spell damage on jewelry over regen and see how it feels.
    -Agreed, I just have really high Stamina here because I had swapped over from my normal Stamina DPS build. Once I get optimal gear pieces I'll get some proper screen shots and showcases.

    Thanks for your feedback, information and new view points like these is how I'm able to flesh out more well rounded and accurate builds.

    I agree with, well, all of it! Hopefully my first post came off as intended. I was purely trying to be constructive. My build is still quite different from yours, and I wouldn't suggest that my methods, even those that are of the slightest impact, would be optimal for your setup, simply because they work for me.

    The point you made about running double-take is very strong one. It really is difficult to argue against this point. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and I certainly wouldn't want you to change to something that inherently contradicts the build setup. That being said, double-take only accounts for 20% of your overall mitigation. There's plenty of other "wiggle room" to proc Leeching and Malubeth anyway. However, that doesn't mean you should change it. I also keep Siphoning Attacks on my primary bar for the same reason you mentioned.

    Should you decide to run Bahraha's instead of Leeching, I would revisit the idea of running Double-Take. At least in that case, you won't be worrying about missing the chance to proc Leeching, so it wouldn't contradict the nature of the build. There's still the issue of how it contradicts Malubeth, however I would suggest that, at least in theory, 80% of the time you are getting hit, which is still pretty high odds of getting a proc. Admittedly though, the proc chance on Malubeth is pretty low, so I wouldn't be able to say without further testing. Something else to consider, although it may not be your preference, is utilizing Blood Spawn and Siphoning passives to boost ultimate regen, and then utilize the healing morph of Soul Tether. I think it would play very nicely with the setup you have going!

    I'm also curious about something. Awhile back I was going to use Malubeth, but had many runs of bad luck and didn't get the helm until well after the following update, at which point I no longer wanted to run it. If I had to pick one reason not to use Malubeth, based solely on the tooltips and not from personal experience, is how the tether itself will be severed if you travel out of range. In pretty much every example I can think of in vet dungeons, this isn't really a concern. But for certain situations, like the Hiath fight of vDSA, the tether is virtually guaranteed to sever when the heals would be needed most (running back and forth with the fire debuff, but maximum range is something like 10m right?). What are your thoughts?
  • Gilliamtherogue
    Gilliamtherogue
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Autolycus wrote: »
    Autolycus wrote: »
    Double-Take is a major source of mitigation, and with a magicka-based setup it will be very easy to incorporate. I usually run it on my primary bar (but I don't do a 1h+s / resto setup, I do 2h+s on both bars). Since it doesn't provide any notable passive benefits for your tanking bar, it could just as easily be put on your resto bar, which would up you crit chance for healing.

    One minor correction for you here, all due respect, but Bahraha's ICD is actually shorter than the duration of the proc itself. You can proc the next AoE before the first one wears off, but only by a fraction of a second. This means that potential maximum up-time is 100%.

    I might also suggest using Deep Slash (from 1h+s) instead of Shadow Image, because Deep Slash hits 3 targets instead of 1, meaning you have 3x the likelihood of a Siphoning Attacks proc for one cast. 2). You lose a negligible amount of health for this trade, the real concern is having the stamina to cast it reliably.

    A couple of general side-notes:
    - NB tanks need very little recovery due to Siphoning Attacks. I run with <1k magicka or stam recovery.
    - A setup like this benefits most when stacked with very high max magicka. If resources are proving not to be an issue, stack spell damage on jewelry glyphs. Sap Essence ensures your Major Sorcery is up 100% of the time, and virtually everything in this build will be stronger with magicka. As such, I recommend the Mage over the Atronach.
    - Bahraha's Curse is one of the best self-healing tanking sets for dungeons in the game currently. Very, very little can take down a NB tank running 5pc Footman and 5pc BC, if done properly and with enough practice. I've pulled entire floors of WGT and held them without a healer using this set, for as long as I see fit (yes, I'm serious, for as long as I see fit. I do this in vWGT and vIP to skip trash, and while I'm holding everything and self-healing, my group goes stealth so as to avoid unnecessary deaths).

    Thanks Gilliam! I'll drop by later to say hello again.

    Double Take is fantastic for damage mitigation, but since my setup revolves around receiving damage to proc Leeching+Malubeth, this actually lowers the efficiency of these sets. I heal more damage than I would have dodged, with minor exceptions such as tanking Mantikora.

    I haven't noticed that happen with Bahraha's, I'll have to keep a closer eye on it. Thanks for that bit of information, I'm interested in seeing what the maximum yield is then!

    That's a very good point with Deep Slash, but my main bar is extremely rigid in terms of slots. I could opt to move Siphoning Attacks to my back bar in order to run this, but I really prefer the ability to cast Siphoning without having to bar swap. Shadowy Imagine is more of a tool I run for fun, rather than maim. I haven't noticed a situation where I needed more mobs to have their damage reduced, as you've mentioned the ability to tank whole floors of dungeons, which I am familiar with.

    -On AoE pulls this is true, however on single target fights where Siphoning Attack's efficiency takes a dip since it can't proc on as many targets I like to have a little bit of a buffer. I'll try swapping to spell damage on jewelry over regen and see how it feels.
    -Agreed, I just have really high Stamina here because I had swapped over from my normal Stamina DPS build. Once I get optimal gear pieces I'll get some proper screen shots and showcases.

    Thanks for your feedback, information and new view points like these is how I'm able to flesh out more well rounded and accurate builds.

    I agree with, well, all of it! Hopefully my first post came off as intended. I was purely trying to be constructive. My build is still quite different from yours, and I wouldn't suggest that my methods, even those that are of the slightest impact, would be optimal for your setup, simply because they work for me.

    The point you made about running double-take is very strong one. It really is difficult to argue against this point. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and I certainly wouldn't want you to change to something that inherently contradicts the build setup. That being said, double-take only accounts for 20% of your overall mitigation. There's plenty of other "wiggle room" to proc Leeching and Malubeth anyway. However, that doesn't mean you should change it. I also keep Siphoning Attacks on my primary bar for the same reason you mentioned.

    Should you decide to run Bahraha's instead of Leeching, I would revisit the idea of running Double-Take. At least in that case, you won't be worrying about missing the chance to proc Leeching, so it wouldn't contradict the nature of the build. There's still the issue of how it contradicts Malubeth, however I would suggest that, at least in theory, 80% of the time you are getting hit, which is still pretty high odds of getting a proc. Admittedly though, the proc chance on Malubeth is pretty low, so I wouldn't be able to say without further testing. Something else to consider, although it may not be your preference, is utilizing Blood Spawn and Siphoning passives to boost ultimate regen, and then utilize the healing morph of Soul Tether. I think it would play very nicely with the setup you have going!

    I'm also curious about something. Awhile back I was going to use Malubeth, but had many runs of bad luck and didn't get the helm until well after the following update, at which point I no longer wanted to run it. If I had to pick one reason not to use Malubeth, based solely on the tooltips and not from personal experience, is how the tether itself will be severed if you travel out of range. In pretty much every example I can think of in vet dungeons, this isn't really a concern. But for certain situations, like the Hiath fight of vDSA, the tether is virtually guaranteed to sever when the heals would be needed most (running back and forth with the fire debuff, but maximum range is something like 10m right?). What are your thoughts?

    Most definitely, I never have any issues when people approach with feedback, and I hope it didn't seem like I was responding with any hostility or whatnot. I actually prefer it when people question my choices, so that I can further explain my reasoning. I won't say I'm always right because I can name plenty of times I was wrong (The Bahraha's ICD!) so thanks again.

    Most definitely, in terms of Effective Health 20% dodge chance has the ability to provide absurd values. The more mobs there are, the more it gets closer to its listed value, as well as the harder mobs hit the more Effective Health it gains by ignoring damage. If I was to drop Leeching for Tava's or Armor Master, I would most definitely run Double Take or Evasion, so that I could utilize it. I'd likely swap over to Blood Spawn as well for the same reasons, which is why I listed these options in Honorable Mentions. Simply stated this build was made for fun and effectiveness, to push away from the same ol' same ol' of what we're discussing.

    The range is rather accommodating, as 10m is farther than melee range (7m) so I've never really noticed the loss. There are definitely fights I could see where it could be an issue (vMoL 2nd and 3rd boss) as well as a few others. For your question on Hiath though, my group does not deal with splits. We either burn him so quickly he does not do the fire circles, or we simply sit through the damage. I could see it being an issue for groups that aren't packed with meta builds/etc so I'd likely opt to run something else here. I carry extra sets just for these sorts of occasions. Other than that, mobs usually shuffle with you, so if you simply don't B-line to your destination you won't have an issue with losing the proc.
    Founder and guild lead of The Order of Mundus. Old member of Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. Stay strong my brethren, our day will return.
    In game Feats;
    Patch 1.6/2.0 #1 in all Trials on NA, and World Record vDSA
    Patch 1.7/2.1 #1 in AA/SO on NA, and World Record vDSA and HRC.
    Patch 1.8/2.2 #1 in all trials on NA.
    NA PC first clear of vMoL with Crown Store Heroes and friends.
    NA PC first clear of Hard mode vMoL + Dro-m’Athra Destroyer title with The Order of Mundus.
    NA PC first clear of all Hard mode Trials after Tamriel Unlimited update.
    Current NA Record holder of Stamina Nightblade, All Sorcerers, and All Templars in vMA.
    Co-Founder and website author of thearcaneacademy.com
    Lead PvE Build author at deltiasgaming.com/
    Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue
  • Inarre
    Inarre
    ✭✭✭✭
    Nice i always love reading about others ideas for unique builds. Thanks for sharing.
    Edited by Inarre on April 5, 2016 12:02AM
  • Gilliamtherogue
    Gilliamtherogue
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    Glad to see others have seen the potential in these sets. I've been running this build since the first week of Thieves Guild and was testing some minor stuff with it on the PTS to see if I could make something work. Ever since live I've been annoying all of my friends about how awesome it was.
    Edited by Gilliamtherogue on April 5, 2016 12:24AM
    Founder and guild lead of The Order of Mundus. Old member of Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. Stay strong my brethren, our day will return.
    In game Feats;
    Patch 1.6/2.0 #1 in all Trials on NA, and World Record vDSA
    Patch 1.7/2.1 #1 in AA/SO on NA, and World Record vDSA and HRC.
    Patch 1.8/2.2 #1 in all trials on NA.
    NA PC first clear of vMoL with Crown Store Heroes and friends.
    NA PC first clear of Hard mode vMoL + Dro-m’Athra Destroyer title with The Order of Mundus.
    NA PC first clear of all Hard mode Trials after Tamriel Unlimited update.
    Current NA Record holder of Stamina Nightblade, All Sorcerers, and All Templars in vMA.
    Co-Founder and website author of thearcaneacademy.com
    Lead PvE Build author at deltiasgaming.com/
    Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue
  • Logicbomb00
    Logicbomb00
    ✭✭✭✭
    yup yup. tonsa fun.
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bump. This is waaaaay more interesting than annoying lying cakes.
  • Ajaxduo
    Ajaxduo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very interested in this :D never tried tanking yet. What's your opinion on the ebon armoury set? Also I'm a bit lost when it comes to armor traits for tanks, would it better to run a mix of reinforced and divines if one isn't using tri stat glyphs?
    - - -
    Stormclaw, Stormproof.
    EU PC
    - - -
  • Usara
    Usara
    ✭✭✭✭
    Looks a lot like my Argonian NB tank setup, that I have been playing for a few weeks now.
    I chose Barhara over Leeching, though I have a full Leeching with perfect traits. I prefer the proc on Barhara. Mostly because I love the visual design of the rune, too :D
    What? Lead? Me? No, no, no. No leading. Bad things happen when I lead. We get lost, people die, and the next thing you know I’m stranded somewhere without any pants.

    Usara v531 - Usara2 v322 - Escouade Sauvage - PC - EU - EP

    Usara Den Thasnet - Retainer of House Hlaalu (Dunmer Templar, heal)
    Livia Augustus - Deserter of the Imperial 7th Legion (Imperial DK, tank)
    Aspen Vael - Battlemage of King Casimir III (Breton Sorcerer, tank/dd magicka)
    Caris Vael - Missing Student of the Mage Guild of Shornhelm (Breton NB, dd magicka, vampire)
    Eugene Fitzherbert - Wanted con artist hiding in Wayrest (Imperial Templar, tank/dd magicka)

    Chante-avec-les-escargots - House Hlaalu snail breeder (Argonian NB, tank)
    Ryl Serandas - Mournhold Ordinator (Dunmer DK, dd magicka)
    Dar'Aiean - House Hlaalu Smuggler (Khajiit NB, dd stamina)
    Ferinwe - Alteration Instructor of the Mage Guild of Ebonheart (Altmer Sorcerer, dd magicka, retired)
    Torafhilde Frostdottir - Winterhold Cryomancer (Nord Sorcerer, dd magicka)
    Senecar - Daedra hunter, former Thalmor corps (Altmer Templar, dd magicka)
    Ondres Hlaalu - House Hlaalu Skooma Trader (Dunmer NB, dd magicka)
  • Usara
    Usara
    ✭✭✭✭
    Ajaxduo wrote: »
    Very interested in this :D never tried tanking yet. What's your opinion on the ebon armoury set? Also I'm a bit lost when it comes to armor traits for tanks, would it better to run a mix of reinforced and divines if one isn't using tri stat glyphs?

    I go with Infused on big pieces and divines on small ones. With Major and Minor Guardian/Ward buff, you don't need reinforced.
    What? Lead? Me? No, no, no. No leading. Bad things happen when I lead. We get lost, people die, and the next thing you know I’m stranded somewhere without any pants.

    Usara v531 - Usara2 v322 - Escouade Sauvage - PC - EU - EP

    Usara Den Thasnet - Retainer of House Hlaalu (Dunmer Templar, heal)
    Livia Augustus - Deserter of the Imperial 7th Legion (Imperial DK, tank)
    Aspen Vael - Battlemage of King Casimir III (Breton Sorcerer, tank/dd magicka)
    Caris Vael - Missing Student of the Mage Guild of Shornhelm (Breton NB, dd magicka, vampire)
    Eugene Fitzherbert - Wanted con artist hiding in Wayrest (Imperial Templar, tank/dd magicka)

    Chante-avec-les-escargots - House Hlaalu snail breeder (Argonian NB, tank)
    Ryl Serandas - Mournhold Ordinator (Dunmer DK, dd magicka)
    Dar'Aiean - House Hlaalu Smuggler (Khajiit NB, dd stamina)
    Ferinwe - Alteration Instructor of the Mage Guild of Ebonheart (Altmer Sorcerer, dd magicka, retired)
    Torafhilde Frostdottir - Winterhold Cryomancer (Nord Sorcerer, dd magicka)
    Senecar - Daedra hunter, former Thalmor corps (Altmer Templar, dd magicka)
    Ondres Hlaalu - House Hlaalu Skooma Trader (Dunmer NB, dd magicka)
  • Gilliamtherogue
    Gilliamtherogue
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ajaxduo wrote: »
    Very interested in this :D never tried tanking yet. What's your opinion on the ebon armoury set? Also I'm a bit lost when it comes to armor traits for tanks, would it better to run a mix of reinforced and divines if one isn't using tri stat glyphs?

    Ebon is a very niche set at the moment, as the 5 piece offers bonus health. The more targets it effects, the stronger its value becomes. In 4 mans I can't find much use out of it, but it could serve as a buffer to trials, since many DPS run the bare minimum of health. Still, in terms of this build I wouldn't run it since it leaves the identity of the build.

    If you're not using Prismatic enchants, then yes you'd opt for Reinforced unless you're already really close to Armor/Spell Resist caps. If that is the case then you're free to run Divines or Infused with single stats, although Divines is pretty weak when paired with Mundus Stones that aren't the Thief or Shadow.
    Founder and guild lead of The Order of Mundus. Old member of Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. Stay strong my brethren, our day will return.
    In game Feats;
    Patch 1.6/2.0 #1 in all Trials on NA, and World Record vDSA
    Patch 1.7/2.1 #1 in AA/SO on NA, and World Record vDSA and HRC.
    Patch 1.8/2.2 #1 in all trials on NA.
    NA PC first clear of vMoL with Crown Store Heroes and friends.
    NA PC first clear of Hard mode vMoL + Dro-m’Athra Destroyer title with The Order of Mundus.
    NA PC first clear of all Hard mode Trials after Tamriel Unlimited update.
    Current NA Record holder of Stamina Nightblade, All Sorcerers, and All Templars in vMA.
    Co-Founder and website author of thearcaneacademy.com
    Lead PvE Build author at deltiasgaming.com/
    Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue
  • code65536
    code65536
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Ah, interesting. I was wondering about your build. So you're still stam. When I ran with you yesterday and saw you sapping, swallowing, and detting, I thought you had re-spec'ed for magicka. Hehe.

    I hadn't really considered tanking as a stamblade because it seems like all the useful abilities are magicka, and I think the results would be even better with more focus on magicka.

    My magblade has a purely gear-swap tank setup: 5p Kag, 2p Torug, 3p Willpower, 2p monster set (doesn't matter that much which one). With 25K health, 17K stam, 33K magicka and 2K spell damage, it's a very good tank setup for when I run with PUGs and don't know what kind of DPS or healer I'll get. With that much stacked into mag and SD, I have very high (well, by tank standards) DPS and self-healing and can solo entire nonvet dungeons as a tank. It's not something I'd want to take into a trial, of course, but it's quite lovely in 4-man content.
    Edited by code65536 on April 8, 2016 7:20PM
    PC/NA ― GM of The Merchant's Reserve ― Raid Lead for Nightfighters

    @code65536
    DC – Breton Nightblade – DD/Tank – Snow Oryx   ☙
    DC – Dunmer Dragonknight – DD/Tank – Cinder Oryx   ☙
    EP – Altmer Sorcerer – DD – Dark Crake
    DC – Breton Templar – Healer/DD – Zebulon the Spirit Bear
    AD – Bosmer Nightblade – DD – Higgs Bosmer
    DC – Redguard Dragonknight – Tank – Swagstasy   ☙
    DC – Redguard Sorceress – DD – Rallina Oryx

    @code4096
    DC – Dunmer Nightblade – DD/Tank – Raven Oryx   ☙

    vMA Flawless  •  vDSA  •  vAA HM  •  vHRC HM  •  vSO HM  •  vMoL HM

    Guides: Magicka Nightblade PvE build for the mainstream player
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  • Gilliamtherogue
    Gilliamtherogue
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    code65536 wrote: »
    Ah, interesting. I was wondering about your build. So you're still stam. When I ran with you yesterday and saw you sapping, swallowing, and detting, I thought you had re-spec'ed for magicka. Hehe.

    I hadn't really considered tanking as a stamblade because it seems like all the useful abilities are magicka, and I think the results would be even better with more focus on magicka.

    My magblade has a purely gear-swap tank setup: 5p Kag, 2p Torug, 3p Willpower, 2p monster set (doesn't matter that much which one). With 25K health, 17K stam, 33K magicka and 2K spell damage, it's a very good tank setup for when I run with PUGs and don't know what kind of DPS or healer I'll get. With that much stacked into mag and SD, I have very high (well, by tank standards) DPS and self-healing and can solo entire nonvet dungeons as a tank. It's not something I'd want to take into a trial, of course, but it's quite lovely in 4-man content.

    Yeah I haven't decided to fully respec attribute points over to Magicka/etc until I get all of my optimal pieces, but I still am a "caster" tank when I put my stuff on. I reswap CP, bars, etc. I just have all stamina dps attributes, which I mentioned in the video is not ideal.

    This setup actually works really well in trials too. I make some slight adjustments (Like running Bloodspawn instead of Malubeth) for more group utility, but my self heals allow me to heal myself rather than depending on a healer for it, which allows them to focus more DPS.
    Edited by Gilliamtherogue on April 8, 2016 8:12PM
    Founder and guild lead of The Order of Mundus. Old member of Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. Stay strong my brethren, our day will return.
    In game Feats;
    Patch 1.6/2.0 #1 in all Trials on NA, and World Record vDSA
    Patch 1.7/2.1 #1 in AA/SO on NA, and World Record vDSA and HRC.
    Patch 1.8/2.2 #1 in all trials on NA.
    NA PC first clear of vMoL with Crown Store Heroes and friends.
    NA PC first clear of Hard mode vMoL + Dro-m’Athra Destroyer title with The Order of Mundus.
    NA PC first clear of all Hard mode Trials after Tamriel Unlimited update.
    Current NA Record holder of Stamina Nightblade, All Sorcerers, and All Templars in vMA.
    Co-Founder and website author of thearcaneacademy.com
    Lead PvE Build author at deltiasgaming.com/
    Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue
  • Ajaxduo
    Ajaxduo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey again, got lucky today with a heavy infused malubeth helm :D still debating on what to run as I don't own any of the leeching set. Thinking maybe twice born or hist bark/spectres eye, but considering you can run mirage/double take it kinda makes hist bark seem meh. With all the healing output the redistributor set could be interesting...Thoughts? :)
    Edited by Ajaxduo on April 15, 2016 10:43PM
    - - -
    Stormclaw, Stormproof.
    EU PC
    - - -
  • Gilliamtherogue
    Gilliamtherogue
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Instead of Leeching I'd like run Tava's and pair it with Mirage for crazy ulti gen for more Warhorns or Soul Tether depending on game play. Redistributor set looks interesting but the static heal kinda kills the potential. If it took the overheal and used it on the player instead of just shooting out a static heal I could see a niche use maybe.
    Founder and guild lead of The Order of Mundus. Old member of Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. Stay strong my brethren, our day will return.
    In game Feats;
    Patch 1.6/2.0 #1 in all Trials on NA, and World Record vDSA
    Patch 1.7/2.1 #1 in AA/SO on NA, and World Record vDSA and HRC.
    Patch 1.8/2.2 #1 in all trials on NA.
    NA PC first clear of vMoL with Crown Store Heroes and friends.
    NA PC first clear of Hard mode vMoL + Dro-m’Athra Destroyer title with The Order of Mundus.
    NA PC first clear of all Hard mode Trials after Tamriel Unlimited update.
    Current NA Record holder of Stamina Nightblade, All Sorcerers, and All Templars in vMA.
    Co-Founder and website author of thearcaneacademy.com
    Lead PvE Build author at deltiasgaming.com/
    Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue
  • Ajaxduo
    Ajaxduo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ahh I see yeah Tava's looks very interesting. Just need to decide on what traits to run :D thanks again.
    - - -
    Stormclaw, Stormproof.
    EU PC
    - - -
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is pretty much the set up I always wanted to run on my Argonian NB tank but never could because Lord Warden is a stingy f*** and won't give me the Leeching Gloves (or his helm for that matter).

    Instead, I had to opt for a more manageable set up of 5 BC, 5 Worm Cult and whatever Undaunted set I felt like using at the time. I find Worm Cult really helped out with the whole leech tanking set up because it offers everything you could want; extra spell damage, magic, increased healing received, and cost reduction, which isn't much of a problem for NBs but does mean you can forgo some regen as a result, on top of the group utility. As an Argonian, I already make up for the 8% extra healing received that Leeching plate offers so I'm not missing all that much for forgoing it.

    Still, I would like to try out Leeching Plate+BC one day.

    Argonian forever
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Gilliamtherogue what are your attributes?
    64m, 0h, 0st?
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • Gilliamtherogue
    Gilliamtherogue
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    In the ability break down page you can see an example break down of 30 Magicka 30 Health 0 Stamina, but it honestly depends on the content. I usually run my stamina DPS setup of 0 0 64stam since it saves me money and I don't have issues with health or magicka pools, but for maximum efficiency you'd want more health (for trials) or more magicka to increase effectiveness.
    Founder and guild lead of The Order of Mundus. Old member of Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. Stay strong my brethren, our day will return.
    In game Feats;
    Patch 1.6/2.0 #1 in all Trials on NA, and World Record vDSA
    Patch 1.7/2.1 #1 in AA/SO on NA, and World Record vDSA and HRC.
    Patch 1.8/2.2 #1 in all trials on NA.
    NA PC first clear of vMoL with Crown Store Heroes and friends.
    NA PC first clear of Hard mode vMoL + Dro-m’Athra Destroyer title with The Order of Mundus.
    NA PC first clear of all Hard mode Trials after Tamriel Unlimited update.
    Current NA Record holder of Stamina Nightblade, All Sorcerers, and All Templars in vMA.
    Co-Founder and website author of thearcaneacademy.com
    Lead PvE Build author at deltiasgaming.com/
    Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue
  • Korsario
    Korsario
    ✭✭✭
    Hey guys is this build still updated? Is this ok for a newbie tank? For leveling up as well, would any random gear work on normal dungeons?

    Also as a tank am i supposed to block 100% of the time while doing my skills? Also im khajit would it be ok even if not 100% optimal?

    Thank you!
  • phreatophile
    phreatophile
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The gear required excludes a newbie really. By that I mean that by the time you acquire 5pc of leeching in remotely acceptable traits you won't be a newbie.
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Korsario wrote: »
    Hey guys is this build still updated? Is this ok for a newbie tank? For leveling up as well, would any random gear work on normal dungeons?

    Also as a tank am i supposed to block 100% of the time while doing my skills? Also im khajit would it be ok even if not 100% optimal?

    Thank you!

    Several pieces of gear recommended here are not "readily accessible" by someone who is new to the game. Leeching Plate alone has extremely high barriers to entry, given its incredibly low drop rate, and the difficulty level of the dungeon, which tends to punish players who are undergeared, underleveled, or lack experience.

    However, Tava's is a crafted set - totally accessible to a new player (you could buy it if you don't have the research). Blood Spawn (which pairs very nicely with Tava's) is all about RNG, not whether or not you are experienced. Footman gear is currently very difficult to obtain, given the fact that it drops out of vDSA (which is old content) with fairly low drop rates. It can be purchased (but tends to be very expensive) or farmed (which could be very time consuming for an inexperienced player).
  • SmalltalkJava
    SmalltalkJava
    ✭✭✭
    Korsario wrote: »
    Hey guys is this build still updated? Is this ok for a newbie tank? For leveling up as well, would any random gear work on normal dungeons?

    Also as a tank am i supposed to block 100% of the time while doing my skills? Also im khajit would it be ok even if not 100% optimal?

    Thank you!
    As you level start getting used to the style of play. Get 5 tavas as a start and fill in with what you can get for the rest. as you play you will learn how you react to situations and can adapt the fill in gear as you prefer. Focus on gilliams key abilities and go from there. Have fun, I don't have the yea yet and it is solid so far. I'm vr8 so I'm learning as I go.

    Regarding blocking 100%, play around with it. As you get exp you will get a feel for when to block cast hardcore and when to relax block.
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Korsario
    Korsario wrote: »
    Hey guys is this build still updated? Is this ok for a newbie tank? For leveling up as well, would any random gear work on normal dungeons?

    Also as a tank am i supposed to block 100% of the time while doing my skills? Also im khajit would it be ok even if not 100% optimal?

    Thank you!

    Regarding blocking 100%, play around with it. As you get exp you will get a feel for when to block cast hardcore and when to relax block.

    The strongest aspect of tanking as a NB is the sustain. Permablocking as a NB tank is easier than on any other class. It's also the most demanding for animation cancelling light attacks between blocks. If you get good at weaving light attacks, you'll almost never run out of resources, but you also have to be good at determining when to keep your block up.
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