PvP ruined

WalkingLegacy

Moglijuana wrote: »

Doesn't PvP fit into the Elder Scrolls Lore though?...Like isn't there always some massive war effort going on somewhere at some time? Do those armies just fight each other with evil stares and middle fingers?

People that say that don't understand anything about Elder Scrolls to begin with. Their whole life they've been playing single player games.

bardx86

RazielSR wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I'm fine if they shut it down and open IC and Cyrodil as PvE zones. Would be kind of cool.

Exactly. PVP in a TES oriented game is and always will be an enormous failure.

The best thing Zos could do is to remove pvp from this game and will solve a lot of problems.
PVP in ESO will never work as intended. Never.

you have lost your mind, why would anyone play without pop..

Yolokin_Swagonborn

For those of you claiming the PvP never worked in ESO, or for the PvP haters that are trying to get all of PvP removed from the game, here are a few videos of PvP working fine with 100s of players on screen at the same time.

For those new players that just got into PvP now, this is how PvP used to be. Weep for what has been lost.

Giant battles AOE and PFX everywhere. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmmQVheKOk

Skip to 2m 9s. Just look at those numbers!!! This was before pop caps were reduced. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DV9TwsosyI#t=2m9s

More massive battles. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzFW0Y11BM

Pre-emptive argument to hamstring the revisionist history apologists: NO, the performance wasn't better back then because people weren't using aoe, and didn't have max level characters. That argument has no merit. There are plenty of aoe effects, (talons, negate, steel tornado) that you could get very early on and the game didn't lag even in AOE spam. One of the later PvE patches killed PvP. Not aoe. Though having no aoe caps initially probably helped performance too.

Katahdin

This is why we cant have nice things.....Cant we all just get along?

Like other MMOs I have played, I have played mostly PvE in this game so far, BUT as I get my characters leveled, I enjoy going out to Cyrodil and I hope to do more of it as time goes on. It is a nice change of pace from the questing and exploring in PvE. The large scale epic battles are a blast. I just wish the lag wasnt so bad at times, but thats another discussion.

The game was made with both PvE and PvP and I like how they are both in this game as well as how they are implemented (Cyrodil AvAvA and IC) in this game. I dont think having Cyrodil and IC detracts from it at all.

I don't want to see Cyrodil and IC removed or made into PvE only. For those that dont like PvP, just stay out of Cyrodil, problem solved.

llSRRll

I like PvP and get killed all the time, people just need to realize they suck at it and need to learn how to play.

Kalfis

The PvP HAD potential over a year ago. But the lag and framerate drops never got fixed to a reasonable state, so naturally most people stopped caring.

I do not want to see any resources spent on PvP anymore unless ZoE fully intends to fix the many problems it has, which doesn't look likely since after all this time, they still havn't.

PVE is the future of ESO and will be until it ends.

R0M2K

I only PvP, i cant find fun in figthing a machine instead of other humans.

PvP had so much potencial in eso yet devs seems to ignore us.

They could add different objectives/activities to Cyrodill, after 2 years doimg the same is getting a bit boring.

They could give PvP players the chance to get the loot by spending AP, as they have done with monster helms but expanding the concept to more loot, like Maelstrom Weapons or other sets.

Palidon

Cyrodiil PvP had gotten worse with every new update or dlc. The lag, crashing, freezing and now sound issues continue to make game play pathetic and frustrating for players who have to constantly put up with it.

I just left Trueflame 3/12/16 4:00AM est. I personally was caught in 12 load screens resulting from either death, repairing keep walls or trying to get from one keep to another using the transits. In each one I had to finally just alt f4 go get back into the game. I don't know how much AP was lost because of the load screens. The game froze 7 times resulting in complete game crash using the 64bit client many times during fights. Sound issues 64bit and 32bit complete loss of sound during large fights for two or more minutes.

Now I ask you who wants to play with that crap going on continually.

ZOS has had going on two years to fix the countless issues in Cyrodiil. What they have done is nothing except to say "We are working on it" or "Have some fixes in the Works".

Tonnopesce

Oh the dominion guilds left?
GOOD TO KNOW so maybe you will stop nightcap all the campaigns literally destroying the PVP for everyone else.
And sorry they left for what? BDO? where if you want to do some decent PVP you need to grind goblins and monsters for days, in order to get the money you need to start a guild war?
As soon they realize how that game really is ( an endless grindparty) everyone will come back, for now is just fresh and new nothing else.

DHale

I still have a blast bugs and all but the lag it really is frustrating. I think the classes are the most balanced they have been in 2 years actually. I play Templar, sorc, nb at vr16 and one level 36 dk. I switch around several times a day for pvp and occasionally pve. AD Haderus was packed with pvp ers.

RoxyPhoenix

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

For those of you claiming the PvP never worked in ESO, or for the PvP haters that are trying to get all of PvP removed from the game, here are a few videos of PvP working fine with 100s of players on screen at the same time.

For those new players that just got into PvP now, this is how PvP used to be. Weep for what has been lost.

Giant battles AOE and PFX everywhere. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmmQVheKOk

Skip to 2m 9s. Just look at those numbers!!! This was before pop caps were reduced. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DV9TwsosyI#t=2m9s

More massive battles. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzFW0Y11BM

Pre-emptive argument to hamstring the revisionist history apologists: NO, the performance wasn't better back then because people weren't using aoe, and didn't have max level characters. That argument has no merit. There are plenty of aoe effects, (talons, negate, steel tornado) that you could get very early on and the game didn't lag even in AOE spam. One of the later PvE patches killed PvP. Not aoe. Though having no aoe caps initially probably helped performance too.

I remember this! Its so beautiful, this is what got ppl in to ESO pvp, massive immersive battles...what happened ZOS???! why have you broken this..I refuse to believe its the players fault, I refuse to believe its the hardware limitations, you have gave us a Ferrari to drive around and then put some square wheels on it!!

Farorin

I for one have always enjoyed, and still enjoy the PVP, with my only issues being balance (which isn't THAT bad compared to some other games), and occasional performance issues.

Those two thigns aside, my only real complaint is that the PVP is not very meaningful, with crappy and weak rewards, and little incentive to try and do well or get better besides for the fun of it.

I wish there was more PVP content as well, or more avenues for PVP, because even though Alliance V Alliance is fun, it does get a bit boring when it is all you can really do for some solid PVP action.

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Lag is the biggest issue.

Besides being near unplayable, a lot of the wonky things that happen, like 20m wrecking blow, are due to lag.

The big fights are pretty epic in scope and visual effects, but the winner is often whoever has the least lag or uses skills least impacted by lag. AoE, for example, because it doesn't require a target.

Latency lag...played last night or at least try to play but its really hard if your latency shoots up immediately after entering Cyro. It was hovering the whole time between 700 and 1200ms. Completely unplayable and there is no excuse for it. Fix the software and upgrade the servers.

Darkonflare15

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

For those of you claiming the PvP never worked in ESO, or for the PvP haters that are trying to get all of PvP removed from the game, here are a few videos of PvP working fine with 100s of players on screen at the same time.

For those new players that just got into PvP now, this is how PvP used to be. Weep for what has been lost.

Giant battles AOE and PFX everywhere. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmmQVheKOk

Skip to 2m 9s. Just look at those numbers!!! This was before pop caps were reduced. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DV9TwsosyI#t=2m9s

More massive battles. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzFW0Y11BM

Pre-emptive argument to hamstring the revisionist history apologists: NO, the performance wasn't better back then because people weren't using aoe, and didn't have max level characters. That argument has no merit. There are plenty of aoe effects, (talons, negate, steel tornado) that you could get very early on and the game didn't lag even in AOE spam. One of the later PvE patches killed PvP. Not aoe. Though having no aoe caps initially probably helped performance too.

Pve patch? When has a patch ever been for pve only. If it was a pve patch that broke pvp then It would not have been a pve patch if it affected pvp too. Every major patch always change something in both pvp and pve since everybody shares skills. There are just so many arrogant players that say outrageous and just plain false things. Elder scrolls in general is a pve focus game series this is fact since majority of the games are single player. Does this mean that Eso would be better with out pvp? No. Getting rid of something that already established in game would just hurt it.

Did Zos market the game with some pvp focus? Yes. They did this because everybody and their grandmother knows that Elder scrolls going to have pve focus content since it in the title. The pvp was a new function added to the elder scrolls name thus they had to market that part to attract customers that would enjoy it. Plus when Zos first start talking about their game they market the pve part first anyway meaning that this game was made for both pve and pvp.This game would not be the same without both of it.

Also myth about Zos not caring about pvp. Every patch and I mean every patch always have changes to pvp and pve. Every patch always brings new changes to combat. With these new changes pvp always is changed so is pve as well. All the new gear, ap bonus for delves, new sieges weapons at dolmens, sieges changes, class changes and other skill changes, scaled pvp, now new pvp monster helm vender, and Imperial City. People may not consider Imperial City not for pvp because of the mobs but it still a new place to pvp just like Cyrodil which also have plenty of mobs in it as well. Plus when justice pvp was consider cancel a large number of pvpers complain that this content was for them but it only would allow pvp in a pve area. Which just means that it would just be like Imperial City. So regardless of what people say it is pvp content. Since every pvp content in this game has pve content with it.

There is no such thing as pve'ers or pvpers that will ruin this game. What is going to ruin this game is when the parent company and publishers find they are not making enough money and they pressure the developers to make bad decisions along with a disconnect between developers and players, a toxic community, developers not adding new content, homogenization of classes in a way that you cannot tell the difference between them, over balancing of game mechanics, and negative publicity. No special player or a group of players can cause a downfall of a game. It takes a cycle of a lot of things to ruin a game. There no point in pointing fingers at other players that prefer different types content. Every player came to this game for different reasons but we all share one thing and that is this game.

xellink

RoxyPhoenix wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

For those of you claiming the PvP never worked in ESO, or for the PvP haters that are trying to get all of PvP removed from the game, here are a few videos of PvP working fine with 100s of players on screen at the same time.

For those new players that just got into PvP now, this is how PvP used to be. Weep for what has been lost.

Giant battles AOE and PFX everywhere. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmmQVheKOk

Skip to 2m 9s. Just look at those numbers!!! This was before pop caps were reduced. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DV9TwsosyI#t=2m9s

More massive battles. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzFW0Y11BM

Pre-emptive argument to hamstring the revisionist history apologists: NO, the performance wasn't better back then because people weren't using aoe, and didn't have max level characters. That argument has no merit. There are plenty of aoe effects, (talons, negate, steel tornado) that you could get very early on and the game didn't lag even in AOE spam. One of the later PvE patches killed PvP. Not aoe. Though having no aoe caps initially probably helped performance too.

I remember this! Its so beautiful, this is what got ppl in to ESO pvp, massive immersive battles...what happened ZOS???! why have you broken this..I refuse to believe its the players fault, I refuse to believe its the hardware limitations, you have gave us a Ferrari to drive around and then put some square wheels on it!!

Its wierd. Things were really bad for me at the beginning and then it started improving. Now performance is really good.

Tavore1138

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

For those of you claiming the PvP never worked in ESO, or for the PvP haters that are trying to get all of PvP removed from the game, here are a few videos of PvP working fine with 100s of players on screen at the same time.

For those new players that just got into PvP now, this is how PvP used to be. Weep for what has been lost.

Giant battles AOE and PFX everywhere. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmmQVheKOk

Skip to 2m 9s. Just look at those numbers!!! This was before pop caps were reduced. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DV9TwsosyI#t=2m9s

More massive battles. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzFW0Y11BM

Pre-emptive argument to hamstring the revisionist history apologists: NO, the performance wasn't better back then because people weren't using aoe, and didn't have max level characters. That argument has no merit. There are plenty of aoe effects, (talons, negate, steel tornado) that you could get very early on and the game didn't lag even in AOE spam. One of the later PvE patches killed PvP. Not aoe. Though having no aoe caps initially probably helped performance too.

Pve patch? When has a patch ever been for pve only. If it was a pve patch that broke pvp then It would not have been a pve patch if it affected pvp too. Every major patch always change something in both pvp and pve since everybody shares skills. There are just so many arrogant players that say outrageous and just plain false things. Elder scrolls in general is a pve focus game series this is fact since majority of the games are single player. Does this mean that Eso would be better with out pvp? No. Getting rid of something that already established in game would just hurt it.

Did Zos market the game with some pvp focus? Yes. They did this because everybody and their grandmother knows that Elder scrolls going to have pve focus content since it in the title. The pvp was a new function added to the elder scrolls name thus they had to market that part to attract customers that would enjoy it. Plus when Zos first start talking about their game they market the pve part first anyway meaning that this game was made for both pve and pvp.This game would not be the same without both of it.

Also myth about Zos not caring about pvp. Every patch and I mean every patch always have changes to pvp and pve. Every patch always brings new changes to combat. With these new changes pvp always is changed so is pve as well. All the new gear, ap bonus for delves, new sieges weapons at dolmens, sieges changes, class changes and other skill changes, scaled pvp, now new pvp monster helm vender, and Imperial City. People may not consider Imperial City not for pvp because of the mobs but it still a new place to pvp just like Cyrodil which also have plenty of mobs in it as well. Plus when justice pvp was consider cancel a large number of pvpers complain that this content was for them but it only would allow pvp in a pve area. Which just means that it would just be like Imperial City. So regardless of what people say it is pvp content. Since every pvp content in this game has pve content with it.

There is no such thing as pve'ers or pvpers that will ruin this game. What is going to ruin this game is when the parent company and publishers find they are not making enough money and they pressure the developers to make bad decisions along with a disconnect between developers and players, a toxic community, developers not adding new content, homogenization of classes in a way that you cannot tell the difference between them, over balancing of game mechanics, and negative publicity. No special player or a group of players can cause a downfall of a game. It takes a cycle of a lot of things to ruin a game. There no point in pointing fingers at other players that prefer different types content. Every player came to this game for different reasons but we all share one thing and that is this game.

I think it is described as a PvE patch because it dropped Craglorn iirc and also contained all the 'new' lighting effects.

So the point is not to get angry about the semantics but to realise that there was a time when the huge PvP battles described by the marketing people at launch were a reality for some months before they got 'broken' almost overnight. In a single patch we lost the ability to have huge rolling battles without lag and every attempt to 'fix' it has in fact simply been to try and make large battles less and less viable... to force people in a group based game to avoid grouping with each other because it is easier to try and reduce localised server load than to fix the code... heck they even removed dear and insects.... now we even have no-CP empty campaigns to focus all players onto one epic lagfest...

And aoe trains were very much a part of that early meta with impulse and bat swarms everywhere before stamina builds became really viable and more popular.

So it is understandable, if not totally reasonable, that PvP players get annoyed by the care lavished on PvE over the life of the game when compared to their favourite aspect being broken and not yet fixed after well over a year.

So while I have no plans to go to 'that other recently launched game' I know a number of my guildies who are and I know of several other PvP guilds who have left in part or in whole - maybe they will come back, maybe they won't but the fact that they have left so fast to try the first apparently possible option suggest there is an underlying deep seated unhappiness in the PvP community.

SymbioteKing26

Mojmir

I like how the devs are camping the audio bug thread,but hey what we see isn't as important as hearing.

Lysette

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

For those of you claiming the PvP never worked in ESO, or for the PvP haters that are trying to get all of PvP removed from the game, here are a few videos of PvP working fine with 100s of players on screen at the same time.

For those new players that just got into PvP now, this is how PvP used to be. Weep for what has been lost.

Giant battles AOE and PFX everywhere. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmmQVheKOk

Skip to 2m 9s. Just look at those numbers!!! This was before pop caps were reduced. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DV9TwsosyI#t=2m9s

More massive battles. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzFW0Y11BM

Pre-emptive argument to hamstring the revisionist history apologists: NO, the performance wasn't better back then because people weren't using aoe, and didn't have max level characters. That argument has no merit. There are plenty of aoe effects, (talons, negate, steel tornado) that you could get very early on and the game didn't lag even in AOE spam. One of the later PvE patches killed PvP. Not aoe. Though having no aoe caps initially probably helped performance too.

Performance was better, because ZOS did not stick to the basic client-server architecture and calculated a lot of stuff on the client machines, which should be done on the server - and this way they gained performance - much like a lot of korean MMOs do it to gain performance. But this has a downside, it opens the game up to hacking and botting, because those calculations which are pushed to the client machine can be intercepted and manipulated. This is less a problem in a korean game and for korean players, because in Korea the IP is bound to the ID of a person, and if you ban a person there, it will never be able to get into the game again with an own account - the same is not true outside of korea and why korean games are so hard to transfer to the west. Look at Archeage, they use a hack shield, but it does not help at all to solve the hacking problem.

When ZOS was going against bots and hacking, they had to get back to a proper client-server architecture and that means, that a lot of the mass calculations had to return to the server and be performed there - what is then causing a problem, when a lot of people are in the same spot and effected by a lot of AoE effects. If you look at the first video for example, you see a massive battle, but what you don't see are zergs - people are distributed over the scene what is less a performance drain. the other mass scenes have a lot of people, but no AoE effects at the same time - big zergs and AoE together are the problem.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

PVP is still great. You know that I think the worst thing about it is? "Top PVP Guilds" acting like they own the place or that 95% of people know who they are and fear them. We don't. You're just wearing a matching outfit and letting us randoms do most of the work then swooping in when a keep is 80% taken already.

Even worse is that a majority of these guilds are run by people who think they are General Custer. Get over yourself.

kuro-dono

How the heck people dont realize that aoe blobbing is ruining pvp atm? check those videos, how many ppl use aoe? maybe 1/10? currently? 10/10? and casuals just get facerolled since they have no clue whats going on and what is meta.

Lysette

kuro-dono wrote: »

How the heck people dont realize that aoe blobbing is ruining pvp atm? check those videos, how many ppl use aoe? maybe 1/10? currently? 10/10? and casuals just get facerolled since they have no clue whats going on and what is meta.

That is in short what I pointed out above - AoE and zergs together are causing the problems.

kuro-dono

and with that i mean, its the gamers themself who ruin the pvp, since you want to faceroll everyone and your enemy faction is there only to be farmed by you, nothing else you get fun, and they feed you ap, remove ap, and remove aoe blobbing, sweet victory!

kuro-dono

Azura star eu atleast currently, great fun thanks to lack of aoe trains since everyone so scared of not having their cp and that they have to make balanced builds instead of minmax builds.

Tankqull

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

It's a shame OP that dedicated PvE players just don't understand the benefits PvP brings to the game. They don't seem to accept that fact that MMOs are all about PvP.

Seems like a lot of them are also the type of people to play a game such as ESO, that is pushing single player content out in masse, and charging for items in the crown store that real single player games have for free and you can mod whatever you want into the game, for free.

If they had their way they would drive the game to the ground and when it dies, go to the next MMO and run it to the ground.

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

I have to say, I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

I've played MMO's since Asheron's Call. I can name at least 20+ MMo's that I've spent significant time in, and in nigh all of them, PvE was always the heaviest focus. PvP was thrown in for those who liked it, but in most every MMO, PvP is not the end-all-be-all for End Game play.

The PvE side is the side that makes the development/publishing company's money.
The various versions of Cash Shops bring in revenue.
DLC (when properly timed) keeps players invested and coming back for more.
The depth of story and expansiveness of the various worlds and exploration zones keep players engaged and exploring.

Very little about PvP keeps an MMO running.

No, MMO's are all about heavy focus on PvE.

Your comment about players "running a game into the ground and then moving on to the next game" fits more in line with the PvP community than PvE players. Most PvP communities run from shiny new game to shiny new game at a feverish pace. they'll bombard a games PvP, beat it into the ground, blow up the associated Forums with "this needs to be fixed now!!!!!!" posts; but once a new game with PvP launches, they all run like lemmings to the next thing that lets them form the largest zergs and stomp mud-holes in each other.

No, most MMO's are ruined by PvP players, and they also (typically but not always) are the most toxic people when leaving feedback. Especially when changes don't get made to their exacting specifications.

I'll tell you a bit of truth though. PvP for ESO could disappear like vapor tomorrow, and the game would still have a very healthy population. Healthy enough, in fact, that ESO could keep running for many years. There has never, in all of my decades playing MMO's and Online RPG's, never been an MMO where the PvP community abandoned it and the game died as a result.

PvE is everything in MMO's.

That's just fact.

nope actually PvP(and funnily RP) is what keeps MMOs allive.
PvE is what makes them decline.
the reason is rather simple, you cant push out PvE as fast as the PvE crowds get through it, once they are done the majority switches to another game depleting the income of that game entirely while demanding more content.

on the other hand PvP(and RPler) create their content by them selfes (if the game offers options to do so aka sandboxish PvP) and aslong the balance issues implemented by pve upgrades (power creep thx to better equip or implemented set bonis or skill overhauls) have been addressed PvP are pretty much selfsufficient. and thus are the spine of the community they might not be the biggest part, they might not be the biggest cash cows, but they are the steady cash cows wich keep the game running.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

For those of you claiming the PvP never worked in ESO, or for the PvP haters that are trying to get all of PvP removed from the game, here are a few videos of PvP working fine with 100s of players on screen at the same time.

For those new players that just got into PvP now, this is how PvP used to be. Weep for what has been lost.

Giant battles AOE and PFX everywhere. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmmQVheKOk

Skip to 2m 9s. Just look at those numbers!!! This was before pop caps were reduced. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DV9TwsosyI#t=2m9s

More massive battles. No lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUzFW0Y11BM

Pre-emptive argument to hamstring the revisionist history apologists: NO, the performance wasn't better back then because people weren't using aoe, and didn't have max level characters. That argument has no merit. There are plenty of aoe effects, (talons, negate, steel tornado) that you could get very early on and the game didn't lag even in AOE spam. One of the later PvE patches killed PvP. Not aoe. Though having no aoe caps initially probably helped performance too.

the game had AOE caps but alot of the most powerfull aoes were bugged and didnt aplyed them to name a few, Dks standart, vampire bats, impulse while e.g. templars nova had a cap of 6 players.

kuro-dono

Zergs by themself do not cause terrifying lagg, but add into loads of aoe users who just spam like mindless ap leeches, hell yeah, then it laggs. azura atm, blob vs blob, but no major aoe spamming= fun for everyone when it doesnt lagg massively

Lysette

Tankqull wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

It's a shame OP that dedicated PvE players just don't understand the benefits PvP brings to the game. They don't seem to accept that fact that MMOs are all about PvP.

Seems like a lot of them are also the type of people to play a game such as ESO, that is pushing single player content out in masse, and charging for items in the crown store that real single player games have for free and you can mod whatever you want into the game, for free.

If they had their way they would drive the game to the ground and when it dies, go to the next MMO and run it to the ground.

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

I have to say, I wholeheartedly disagree with you.

I've played MMO's since Asheron's Call. I can name at least 20+ MMo's that I've spent significant time in, and in nigh all of them, PvE was always the heaviest focus. PvP was thrown in for those who liked it, but in most every MMO, PvP is not the end-all-be-all for End Game play.

The PvE side is the side that makes the development/publishing company's money.
The various versions of Cash Shops bring in revenue.
DLC (when properly timed) keeps players invested and coming back for more.
The depth of story and expansiveness of the various worlds and exploration zones keep players engaged and exploring.

Very little about PvP keeps an MMO running.

No, MMO's are all about heavy focus on PvE.

Your comment about players "running a game into the ground and then moving on to the next game" fits more in line with the PvP community than PvE players. Most PvP communities run from shiny new game to shiny new game at a feverish pace. they'll bombard a games PvP, beat it into the ground, blow up the associated Forums with "this needs to be fixed now!!!!!!" posts; but once a new game with PvP launches, they all run like lemmings to the next thing that lets them form the largest zergs and stomp mud-holes in each other.

No, most MMO's are ruined by PvP players, and they also (typically but not always) are the most toxic people when leaving feedback. Especially when changes don't get made to their exacting specifications.

I'll tell you a bit of truth though. PvP for ESO could disappear like vapor tomorrow, and the game would still have a very healthy population. Healthy enough, in fact, that ESO could keep running for many years. There has never, in all of my decades playing MMO's and Online RPG's, never been an MMO where the PvP community abandoned it and the game died as a result.

PvE is everything in MMO's.

That's just fact.

nope actually PvP(and funnily RP) is what keeps MMOs allive.
PvE is what makes them decline.
the reason is rather simple, you cant push out PvE as fast as the PvE crowds get through it, once they are done the majority switches to another game depleting the income of that game entirely while demanding more content.

on the other hand PvP(and RPler) create their content by them selfes (if the game offers options to do so aka sandboxish PvP) and aslong the balance issues implemented by pve upgrades (power creep thx to better equip or implemented set bonis or skill overhauls) have been addressed PvP are pretty much selfsufficient. and thus are the spine of the community they might not be the biggest part, they might not be the biggest cash cows, but they are the steady cash cows wich keep the game running.

This is all about game design - not really about the technical side of the servers. Look at an MMO like EVE online - there are no levels, it is purely skill-driven - there is no "best gear" (ships, equipment), the game is very well balanced - are there FotM ships, a few, sometimes - but this is taken care of on a regular basis and the parameters get adjusted by the Devs so that the overall experience in EVE is "there is no best ship" - there is just a best ship for a certain role - but no overpowered gear. Someone who is using top-gear is as well risking to loose it - what is not the case in ESO, you keep your gear when you die. Game design decides about the quality of the game - ESO is fantastic in landscape art - but it is lame in combat design, it looks cool, but it is not cool at all, because it is not a system, which would work properly - instead it is causing technical issues which cannot be solved on a technical level - the game design has to change, this cannot be solved by the IT guys.

Lysette

kuro-dono wrote: »

Zergs by themself do not cause terrifying lagg, but add into loads of aoe users who just spam like mindless ap leeches, hell yeah, then it laggs. azura atm, blob vs blob, but no major aoe spamming= fun for everyone when it doesnt lagg massively

Oh zergs are really bad, because they scale with the factorial of players inside the zerg - this gets critical real fast.

MidnightBlue

Pvp is better than pve in this game at least you can find people to play with in pvp. Pve to find people to play with? Forget it. Most don't take new people outside their cliques even if they have the potential to be good.

Lysette

MidnightBlue wrote: »

Pvp is better than pve in this game at least you can find people to play with in pvp. Pve to find people to play with? Forget it. Most don't take new people outside their cliques even if they have the potential to be good.

My experience with this is - some people do not even talk to others before they offer friendship or want you to join a group. This is not how it works - it might work in pvp, but it does not work in a role play environment. You have to talk to people to get to know them, you are not just a "dps number" in a role play group, but you have to be a character to interact with. And that means you need to talk to people - and this means you need to have real life social skills.