PvP ruined

charley222

16 day back in the game , and 2 of my old pvp guild are just close anyone online anymore
sad because cyrodiil have a huge potential but eso team are not able too deliver because after 2 1/2 year the map still lag too dead and pvp are just so unbalance anyway here is what i feel inside

better for me too pve

FleetwoodSmack

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

The biggest issue is there is nothing to do!!! Its not even lag, I dont have lag. I just dont have anything to do. If the other aliances have your towers.. lmao!! good luck gtfo.. wtf is the point. spend 20 min traveling to fight, only to get ambushed by a zerg from stealth. WTF is the point of pvp in eso? There is no such thing. Its so dam lame and the community keeps saying, "eso pvp is not that bad'.. cmon man. its horrible. ther is nothing to do besides zerg up and aoe everything down.

If they simply implemented PvP into the Justice System and let participation be OPTIONAL, that's probably all it would take to keep A LOT of PvPers

Most definitely. However too many people panicked, "ZOMG EXPLOITABLE. Everyone would gang up on the level 10 guy that just stole a tomato!" If they were flagged for it, then obviously they knew the risks coming into it, however reason and logic didn't play out in the decision to ditch the effort. And that's me watering that whole thing down into a nutshell. It's... Sad. A lot of people were expecting that and 1v1/2v2/etc PvP was a lot people were holding onto. But I'm afraid with the latest patch, it was the last nail in the coffin for some folks. =/

Lafer

Oh my god pve dlc ? wtf are you talking about bro the zone is the smalest zone of tamriel and the only new pve that was added is a raid that drop sucky loots please lol.This DLC is much more pvp oriented then pve gear/feature/bug fixing.

Tomato

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Lag is the biggest issue.

Besides being near unplayable, a lot of the wonky things that happen, like 20m wrecking blow, are due to lag.

The big fights are pretty epic in scope and visual effects, but the winner is often whoever has the least lag or uses skills least impacted by lag. AoE, for example, because it doesn't require a target.

Welcome to ALL online games involving pvp.

Not true

Tomato

This game is a joke now

Bashev

Sadly but true. PvP do not bring ZoS money. It is a shame how fast ZoS forgot that the only end game that we had in the game was PvP. More than 1 year we had no new content.

xellink

Bashev wrote: »

Sadly but true. PvP do not bring ZoS money. It is a shame how fast ZoS forgot that the only end game that we had in the game was PvP. More than 1 year we had no new content.

Unless players pay for PVP.

Lysette

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

FleetwoodSmack

Lysette wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

You know, if they made our attacks hurt the same alliance as well I think people would spread out a lot better. Sadly I don't think that'd be a good/happy solution for the issue though.

The_Great_Maldini

sirrmattus wrote: »

its because there is no such thing as PvP in ESO. It's ZvZ (zerg vs zerg)
its #'s vs #'s.
there is no goal, no reward, no mission. its an utter failure
and if you do see someone 1vX'ing, they run behind trees, around rocks, etc...
the lamest shiit on the planet is eso 'pvp'

What's funny is that some people who classify that as "skill" where it's just using the environment. I would classify as resourceful but not quite "skillful".

Elloa

Sallington wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

There has been plenty of discussion about AOE caps where you been?

From the players, sure.

From the developers as well. Which is really the only discussion that matters. They even talked about it on the last ESO live or maybe the one before the last one. Honestly I forget what was said because it doesnt interest me. They did talk about it tho.

"We're looking into it, but no ETA." ?

I cant remember for sure. I am pretty sure they said however it is now its staying like this.

That's not much of a discussion lol

It was a discussion, just not ended the way you hoped maybe

Master_Kas

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

This !!!

Master_Kas

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

You know, if they made our attacks hurt the same alliance as well I think people would spread out a lot better. Sadly I don't think that'd be a good/happy solution for the issue though.

Have seem huge fights with puggroups fighting (no stacked ballgroups) near one keep and it was bs fps and red ping digits.

Sure organized ballgroups create more lag but don't think for a second that without them fps and ping would be solved.

Also when alot of pugs enter chokepoints/breaches they stack uo because of tight spots which also creates lag and fps issues.

Pretty clearly Their servers & code just can't handle what they promised: large scale pvp

mcurley

Interesting. I absolutely love the PvP in BwB.... and so do a lot of people in that campaign. Perhaps you vets should try it out.

Didgerion

Common - it is a game,

People leave when bored and come back when they feel like it.

Being a pvp guild leader is a full time job....maybe people needed to move on for a real full time job and that's why they put the game on hold.

ZOS does a good job so far.
Let me tell you this: I watch a lot of eso streamers, and non of the streamers I know of stuck with other MMOs after leaving ESO.

There is no better PVP/PVE mmos out there..so ZOS does a great job...kudos to them.

Katahdin

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Server performance and lack of attention to issues drove most of the best AvA leadership back to Guild Wars within 6 months of this game coming out.

GW2 WvW is on life support now. ANET killed that game with HOT along with the players that just want to turtle in thier keeps with their arrow carts. Even with the lag, ESO AvA is much better, at least people in this game fight.

Lysette

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

You know, if they made our attacks hurt the same alliance as well I think people would spread out a lot better. Sadly I don't think that'd be a good/happy solution for the issue though.

My suggestion was to scale the effects in a zerg down with the rising effort required to resolve the interactions in a zerg - with the role play reasoning, that people who are too near to each other, hinder each other to perform well. It would make sense and people would spread out instead to clump together in a zerg.

WalkingLegacy

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

It's a shame OP that dedicated PvE players just don't understand the benefits PvP brings to the game. They don't seem to accept that fact that MMOs are all about PvP.

Seems like a lot of them are also the type of people to play a game such as ESO, that is pushing single player content out in masse, and charging for items in the crown store that real single player games have for free and you can mod whatever you want into the game, for free.

If they had their way they would drive the game to the ground and when it dies, go to the next MMO and run it to the ground.

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

FleetwoodSmack

Master_Kas wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

You know, if they made our attacks hurt the same alliance as well I think people would spread out a lot better. Sadly I don't think that'd be a good/happy solution for the issue though.

Have seem huge fights with puggroups fighting (no stacked ballgroups) near one keep and it was bs fps and red ping digits.

Sure organized ballgroups create more lag but don't think for a second that without them fps and ping would be solved.

Also when alot of pugs enter chokepoints/breaches they stack uo because of tight spots which also creates lag and fps issues.

Pretty clearly Their servers & code just can't handle what they promised: large scale pvp

Yeah. I've seen that quite a bit too myself. I try to stay away from them for the most part, but sometimes even then, I stumble on a huge fight (I just run around never looking at my map all that much and I try to keep zone chat off because I do my own thing). After that it becomes a powerpoint slideshow and loading screen bosses of doom.

Lysette wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

You know, if they made our attacks hurt the same alliance as well I think people would spread out a lot better. Sadly I don't think that'd be a good/happy solution for the issue though.

My suggestion was to scale the effects in a zerg down with the rising effort required to resolve the interactions in a zerg - with the role play reasoning, that people who are too near to each other, hinder each other to perform well. It would make sense and people would spread out instead to clump together in a zerg.

Think that'd be doable though? I like that idea, but did they just not take onto it, or was it not that popular? It'd definitely make more sense than mine for sure. xD I was just like "Why not just have friendly fire. That'd give people incentive enough to spread out from dying 100 times." But then again, I could also see loads of people rage quitting because they died to a group member's Caltrops somehow. Definitely like your idea better.

Tandor

Bashev wrote: »

Sadly but true. PvP do not bring ZoS money. It is a shame how fast ZoS forgot that the only end game that we had in the game was PvP. More than 1 year we had no new content.

Hopefully ZOS recognise that and are planning on additional end-game PvE content after the Dark Brotherhood DLC (unless that is geared to high level which would seem unlikely and unwise). However they aim to tackle the shortage of end-game content, "fixing" PvP isn't going to address the end-game issues.

Let me see if I understand this topic correctly. PvPers are leaving the game, and it could be because another game has launched, or it could be because of the lag which hasn't stopped them hanging around for a couple of years now. Or it might be due to class balancing. Or perhaps even AOE changes. Then again, it could be because they've only had one PvP DLC out of three as well as the promise of the additional small-scale PvP content they've been asking for. Although all this could be reversed if they could have the PvP element of the Justice System they were so keen on as a back-door way of getting open world PvP in PvE areas. That is unless they haven't really left the game at all and are actually enjoying the PvE content of the Thieves Guild DLC. Although there are plenty who find PvP great fun so that some of the campaigns are regularly full.

Did I miss anything out ?

Lysette

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

It's a shame OP that dedicated PvE players just don't understand the benefits PvP brings to the game. They don't seem to accept that fact that MMOs are all about PvP.

Seems like a lot of them are also the type of people to play a game such as ESO, that is pushing single player content out in masse, and charging for items in the crown store that real single player games have for free and you can mod whatever you want into the game, for free.

If they had their way they would drive the game to the ground and when it dies, go to the next MMO and run it to the ground.

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

Well, the management is not seeing it as the typical MMO at all - quote from Mr. Firor made lately in an interview:

Our bigger challenge has been to educate players that we are not a traditional 2004-style MMO and much more an expansive online Elder Scrolls RPG.

FleetwoodSmack

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

It's a shame OP that dedicated PvE players just don't understand the benefits PvP brings to the game. They don't seem to accept that fact that MMOs are all about PvP.

Seems like a lot of them are also the type of people to play a game such as ESO, that is pushing single player content out in masse, and charging for items in the crown store that real single player games have for free and you can mod whatever you want into the game, for free.

If they had their way they would drive the game to the ground and when it dies, go to the next MMO and run it to the ground.

(I'm an avid PvE and PvP player and always have been)

I'm right there with you. I love PvE and PvP. I've been in the trading community with dipping my toes into the RP (ERP plz) community to lull the boredom while waiting for my friends to log in to do a dungeon. The majority of both the PvE and the RP community seem so keenly against PvP it's ridiculous. It's stupidly easy to get the hang of, provides a few hours of giggles, and you learn things that you can actually USE in PvE.

I simply DON'T get why people (anti-PvPers) don't like it. I mean I respect their opinions and all, but a lot of them that I've talked to that have gave an opinion close to "I don't like it because of the community" have never dipped their toes into PvP at all. Every community has it's bad side, but I've met a lot of good people through PvP and they always give me food for thought every time I have a question. Even MORESO than the PvEers were. Even despite my own grievances to PvP, it's not enough to hate it. I hate the condition it's in, sure... But that's an entirely separate issue.

Lysette

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

You know, if they made our attacks hurt the same alliance as well I think people would spread out a lot better. Sadly I don't think that'd be a good/happy solution for the issue though.

Have seem huge fights with puggroups fighting (no stacked ballgroups) near one keep and it was bs fps and red ping digits.

Sure organized ballgroups create more lag but don't think for a second that without them fps and ping would be solved.

Also when alot of pugs enter chokepoints/breaches they stack uo because of tight spots which also creates lag and fps issues.

Pretty clearly Their servers & code just can't handle what they promised: large scale pvp

Yeah. I've seen that quite a bit too myself. I try to stay away from them for the most part, but sometimes even then, I stumble on a huge fight (I just run around never looking at my map all that much and I try to keep zone chat off because I do my own thing). After that it becomes a powerpoint slideshow and loading screen bosses of doom.

Lysette wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

You know, if they made our attacks hurt the same alliance as well I think people would spread out a lot better. Sadly I don't think that'd be a good/happy solution for the issue though.

My suggestion was to scale the effects in a zerg down with the rising effort required to resolve the interactions in a zerg - with the role play reasoning, that people who are too near to each other, hinder each other to perform well. It would make sense and people would spread out instead to clump together in a zerg.

Think that'd be doable though? I like that idea, but did they just not take onto it, or was it not that popular? It'd definitely make more sense than mine for sure. xD I was just like "Why not just have friendly fire. That'd give people incentive enough to spread out from dying 100 times." But then again, I could also see loads of people rage quitting because they died to a group member's Caltrops somehow. Definitely like your idea better.

Well, my personal impression is, that Mr. Wrobel is underestimating the effect zergs have - he might know, that they are not good, but what he is not getting is that they are actually horrible, because they scale with the factorial of players in a zerg and not linearily or geometrically - geometrically would already be bad enough, but factorial is even worse.

Reevster

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

I'm fine if they shut it down and open IC and Cyrodil as PvE zones. Would be kind of cool.

I agree...

Inarre

I think ruined might be a bit strong of a word... x)

PVP is different this patch no doubt and there are bugs that still need fixing. The balance is a bit wonky but I've seen Zos respond to different posts, answer some bigger questions the community has and even take into account and work in community ideas into game development. I don't get this "Zos NEVER LISTENS. Everything is RUINED. OMG."

Anyone who left game were probably going to anyway... Not many people, even dedicated MMOers spend more than a few years in one game.

PlagueMonk

halkjear wrote: »

So as the title says you finally did it! You finally completely ruined PvP.

Not directly though but by not focusing and maintaining the PvP aspect of the game enough. Because of that most of the entire organized PvP community has left the game because of other, in particular one, games. At least that seems to be the case on the European server on the Aldmeri Dominion side.

I have just this evening contacted all the well known good and organized PvP guilds that I could think of, which is quite a few, and the story is the same pretty much all around. Most of their members including officers and leaders have left the game. Will they come back eventually? No one can tell.

As soon as the PvP'ers had an alternative they took it, of course they did.

Honestly I do not blame them I do however blame you, developers. For far too long you have ignored their voices or simply done nothing about it.

But I guess you do not care. You just sold a ton of PvE DLC this week. You are happy. The PvP in this game has so much potential! But you do not care. Have you ever?

Mind sharing with us exactly what "one" game you are referring to is? Or is it taboo to even mention that other MMOs exist? I would personally like to know because I have looked and not found anything better than ESO....yet (CU is just around the corner though )

FleetwoodSmack

Lysette wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

You know, if they made our attacks hurt the same alliance as well I think people would spread out a lot better. Sadly I don't think that'd be a good/happy solution for the issue though.

Have seem huge fights with puggroups fighting (no stacked ballgroups) near one keep and it was bs fps and red ping digits.

Sure organized ballgroups create more lag but don't think for a second that without them fps and ping would be solved.

Also when alot of pugs enter chokepoints/breaches they stack uo because of tight spots which also creates lag and fps issues.

Pretty clearly Their servers & code just can't handle what they promised: large scale pvp

Yeah. I've seen that quite a bit too myself. I try to stay away from them for the most part, but sometimes even then, I stumble on a huge fight (I just run around never looking at my map all that much and I try to keep zone chat off because I do my own thing). After that it becomes a powerpoint slideshow and loading screen bosses of doom.

Lysette wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

I could take any class imbalance, any zerg and whatever else. If it only wasn't for the lag. That is the one thing that prevents this games pvp from being simply amazing.

Zergs (as in too many people in a too small spot) are the reason for the lag, because it has an overproportional effort in resolving the interactions - and this is already putting it mildly - zergs are horror performance-wise. This has to end then the lag will go away.

You know, if they made our attacks hurt the same alliance as well I think people would spread out a lot better. Sadly I don't think that'd be a good/happy solution for the issue though.

My suggestion was to scale the effects in a zerg down with the rising effort required to resolve the interactions in a zerg - with the role play reasoning, that people who are too near to each other, hinder each other to perform well. It would make sense and people would spread out instead to clump together in a zerg.

Think that'd be doable though? I like that idea, but did they just not take onto it, or was it not that popular? It'd definitely make more sense than mine for sure. xD I was just like "Why not just have friendly fire. That'd give people incentive enough to spread out from dying 100 times." But then again, I could also see loads of people rage quitting because they died to a group member's Caltrops somehow. Definitely like your idea better.

Well, my personal impression is, that Mr. Wrobel is underestimating the effect zergs have - he might know, that they are not good, but what he is not getting is that they are actually horrible, because they scale with the factorial of players in a zerg and not linearily or geometrically - geometrically would already be bad enough, but factorial is even worse.

Holy crap. Yeah I can see how that'd be way worse. Mathematically, that's just a mess. =/ Have you/others tried sending this through ESO Live? Like really pushing them to think about something like this? I figure you/others might've, but I hardly keep up with it myself.

Lysette

Inarre wrote: »

I think ruined might be a bit strong of a word... x)

PVP is different this patch no doubt and there are bugs that still need fixing. The balance is a bit wonky but I've seen Zos respond to different posts, answer some bigger questions the community has and even take into account and work in community ideas into game development. I don't get this "Zos NEVER LISTENS. Everything is RUINED. OMG."

Anyone who left game were probably going to anyway... Not many people, even dedicated MMOers spend more than a few years in one game.

It is quite normal to take a break to play something else, what comes up - I am a long-term EVE online player and currently I have just my skill-queue filled and am not really playing it - I am still subscribed, so my skills keep increasing in EVE - but I am currently playing ESO if I can find the time to do so. this does not mean I would have left EVE, I am just taking a break to play something else more often. I guess a lot of those who left for playing another game might be of the same kind, and return once in a while - when they are fed up enough by the bugs in those games - every game has bugs, even a very well maintained one like EVE online - this is just the nature of a complex game, that it is hard to get rid of bugs and any attempt produces new bugs and side-effects, which are not obvious when making those changes. This is the nature of complexity basically.

Reevster

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

They don't seem to accept that fact that MMOs are all about PvP.

Not totally true, EQ1 did just fine without PvP in the first few years, they had PvP but few actually did the PvP.
EQ1 was number one MMO for a few years back then. So MMO are not all about PvP sorry, maybe to some but not everyone.

Inarre

Lysette wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

I think ruined might be a bit strong of a word... x)

PVP is different this patch no doubt and there are bugs that still need fixing. The balance is a bit wonky but I've seen Zos respond to different posts, answer some bigger questions the community has and even take into account and work in community ideas into game development. I don't get this "Zos NEVER LISTENS. Everything is RUINED. OMG."

Anyone who left game were probably going to anyway... Not many people, even dedicated MMOers spend more than a few years in one game.

It is quite normal to take a break to play something else, what comes up - I am a long-term EVE online player and currently I have just my skill-queue filled and am not really playing it - I am still subscribed, so my skills keep increasing in EVE - but I am currently playing ESO if I can find the time to do so. this does not mean I would have left EVE, I am just taking a break to play something else more often. I guess a lot of those who left for playing another game might be of the same kind, and return once in a while - when they are fed up enough by the bugs in those games - every game has bugs, even a very well maintained one like EVE online - this is just the nature of a complex game, that it is hard to get rid of bugs and any attempt produces new bugs and side-effects, which are not obvious when making those changes. This is the nature of complexity basically.

Exactly. So these vacant guilds could be for any number of reason. I know my PVP guild is vacant recently even though none have quit game. It's because they are playing the new DLC and farming the new motifs/sets to make dough and new gear... xD