How do *you* measure success in PvP

Astanphaeus

Taking a keep. Defending a keep. Winning the campaign.

Rylana

Close competitive fights, any size really. Moments where I feel a sense of exhilaration at winning something that looked grim, come from behind, against all odds.

Being able to build a char/strat for my group that succeeds. Heh the "Rylana Gamble" or the "Electrogoblin build" being examples. Having a bit of a legacy among my peers, not necessarily a name amongst my enemies (that leads to dead goblin )

A good AP/hr doesnt hurt, gotta make dat money money yeah yeah. But at the end of the day, if I feel like my team has won more than we lost, or at least improved on a tough day, we have succeeded.

AdamBourke

As a VR3, I tend not to take place in PVP directly, but I do attempt to do PvE in Cyrodiil.

I consider a successful trip to Cyrodiil to be one where I make it to a delve without dying. Some of them are a LONG way.

Turelus

If I leave the night having had fun it was a success, if I leave annoyed and bored then it was a failure.

AP is just an afterthought.

Elsir

A successful PvP experience for me is in its simplest of forms: Logging off in my own time. Not the amount of AP per hour I could have gotten, or how close I've become to Empress a couple of times, none of that. Just logging off at my own pace. Not because the server was performing too poorly to move 2 feet without spiking to 4500ms latency or more. Not because of mechanics that are debatable as being "part of the game" or "fair" interfering with my personal view of that subject *cough cough*. Just because I felt like I'd had my fill for the day/night and it was time to get food, or generally go do something else. That is a successful PvP experience for me.

Reb

Turelus wrote: »

If I leave the night having had fun it was a success, if I leave annoyed and bored then it was a failure.

AP is just an afterthought.

This pretty much sums it up for me to

AP and reward bags are just fluff

reften

Winning the campaign. I know, I'm weird

SmalltalkJava

I'm simple. I measure success by how much I help my group. Healing, damage, cc, distraction. After a fight did I help my group? If the answer is yes then I succeeded.

themdogesbite

I messure sucess by how many loadingscreens / crashes / lag i can avoid.

stoop420

Healing. I get upset when I am late on my ward and someone dies. I am the sucker that runs in and tries to save the nightblade 1vXing peeps. They vanish and I get pummeled.

Universe

I measure success in pvp by kill/death ratio, AP an hour gain and if I'm successful in defendning a keep/outpost by myself or a small group.
It would have been great if there was a title & achievement for successfully defendning a number of keeps/outposts by yourself.
I always solo or escorting a group(never join a group).

I like to capture new keeps/outposts but I enjoy more the 1vx(solo a group) or 2v5 fights or defending a keep/outpost against a much larger force(winning against the odds).
The Thieves guild patch has improved the effectiveness of siege weapons, so it is definitely easier to defend the keeps/outposts now(even against a much larger force).
I don't consider myself an AP farmer since I do everything for fun and for the benefit of my Alliance.
I never zerg or join a zerg group.

zZzleepyhead

Success == fun

frozywozy

I feel successful and accomplished when I log in at primetime with Brk and Chal under enemy control because of green alliance and log off before going to bed with all our home keeps re-captured and with a good faction score going.

Tannakaobi

How do *you* measure success in PvP

Me alive, opponent dead.....

Didgerion

When I go solo the Kill/Death ratio is my measurement.

Sometimes I look how many positions I climbed in AP ranking during a session...but as OP said: the AP ranking is a "farm" index and not an actual PVP efficiency indicator.

phillyboy7897

If I beat a group 3+ and as good gear as me

If I beat group 5+

If I get on 8+ killstreak

If it takes 8+ players over 1 min to kill me

Karamis_Vimardon

The quality of the ERP in my /tells with frenemies

JDar

This short clip basically sums it up for me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvjiWQDGQV8

Just kidding. Same way I judge myself in real life: I ask myself if I have the general respect of my peers for the quality of my work, the value of my friendship and the integrity of my character.

Paraflex

Totally agree with the original poster. Smart guy I can see why you are so high ranked. It's about what you can learn in each fight/situation. If you master everything you will become a great player an be able to farm AP in all situations. I believe to be the best you need to have good competition and different competitive enemy group styles. For example if you like group play like I do you need to be able to take on a similar size competitive group and win consistently to be considered successful in my group. I would imagine your groups are ran well and very productive Crown

Johngo0036

What are your goals when you pvp??? My goal is to kill more of the enemy than they do me......

So for me my Kill to Death ratio plays a HUGE part in whether or not i am successful,

Morozov

if I can still maneuver in high lag/fps and kill/not die, then I consider that a win in my book.

RAGUNAnoOne

In azuras arena how many stones I can get before I die without touching the portal chests. My record is around 230 so I guess that is decent...

KenaPKK

I measure success in PvP by receiving Rewards for the Worthy.

...oh wait.

Morozov

KenaPKK wrote: »

I measure success in PvP by receiving Rewards for the Worthy.

...oh wait.

iseewhatyoudidthere

tinythinker

Crown wrote: »

There are many different ways to look at success. What's yours?

Having fun, which for me includes (but is not limited to):

- making a useful contribution to battles, which is why I've suggested changes to increase the number of ways to do that, such as adding moving flags and adding gear sets/skill lines for different roles

Bringing Specialists to the battlefield:

- limit each character to one Alliance War skill line at a time. If you want to run Support, fine, but you can't pick anything from the Assault tree. You can always respec, of course, to change specializations. Maybe something at one of the Gates? Get your skill point from the Alliance War skill line back and be free to choose another. For a modest fee, of course, perhaps using AP?

- Modify the existing Alliance War skill lines to reflect specialization. For those upset about the 50% Battle Spirit Nerf, how about one of the passives (maybe Battle Frenzy?) add in something that makes it 40% instead. It can be done/worded various ways, but the idea is still there. Or maybe add it to Continuous Attack? Who knows? Maybe add a new passive? This would be balanced by a similar change under Support. Effectively, those who choose Assault have their healing nerfed at present (or even slightly higher levels), and those who choose Support see mirror results. Other changes could be made to make different specialists valuable to any group (might update later with some examples). There could also be changes that that would limit how often things like Barrier and Purge could be cast/the effects received, or, see the next bullet...

- Add a new Alliance War skill line. My preference would be for something like an Engineer type. Deploy/retrieve siege faster than at present (and have others do so slower), do more damage with siege equipment/have additional or boosted effects, etc. For example, an active or passive skill at the bottom of the list (high rank) where (at least some) siege effects cannot be purged/cleansed. Partially mitigated by such abilities? Maybe. But not always entirely erased for all effects. There could be some some fun and creative skills thought up for this that are not immediately obvious as well, so put on your thinking caps. Should be at least one that is useful for open-field play that would be powerful and something you'd want to have for your group.

- Add new mechanics/deployable equipment/personal gear to take advantage of specialization. We see this with a couple of gear sets added in 2.1 but more would be needed to take advantage of the new specialist roles, especially for Engineers in the field. Maybe some kind of fast arming trap? Or a mobile defense structure? Again, get creative! Specific engines I would add include moveable siege towers that could allow people to climb over walls and net throwers (for AoE snares that can't be purged, have to hack/burn through them with normal weapon attacks).

-Add new Alliance War gear to encourage specialiazation. I gave some examples in another thread and republish them here:

Siegeproof - Wearer takes 70% less from siege engines.

Engineer - Siege engines decay 50% slower when run by the wearer and fire 25% faster for 15% more damage.

Standard Bearer - Wearer takes 60% less damage and deals 40% more damage when fighting on a capturable flag.

These sets encourage people who enjoy different roles. Not everyone wants to play extreme damage dealer/ganker or clutch healer. Siegeproof has obvious benefits at battles for strongholds and outposts, especially as siege damage is getting buffed. Many players like to run siege when taking/defending strongholds and outposts, and Engineer makes them much more effective by allowing them to fire faster and hit harder for longer. Standard Bearer is kind of strange when you first look at it, but it could produce some interesting results on cap and defense fights. It creates a role for flag-taker/defender. While the generic DPS may die quickly on the flag, the Standard Bearer can outlast several opponents. The numbers for these support sets are high because they need to be to make the roles worth it and encourage diversity.


The idea here with these various bullets, again, is to spice things up and let people of varying levels of skill make meaningful contributions/be desirable for groups without "nerfing" how other, more skilled players who would want to jump on the revised "Assault" skill line like to play. Tired of playing Support or Engineer and want to play Assault? OK, but you need to practice, gain experience with combat, use the right gear, etc. And make sure things are not only useful from each specialization but challenging to play as well in their own ways. Again, skill line, gear, and equipment would need to be designed with this in mind.

Add "moving flags" for small group objectives:
There was a thread about supply lines a good while back, but it was more about capping stronghold resources. What if there were supply convoys, like a wagon, that acted like a moving "flag" to be defended or capped, no new quest needed. They would periodically leave from one stronghold or town to a destination with a contingent of NPC guards. You could choose to escort or not at any time, either because you planned to or just ran across one of them. They would stop moving when attacked, and you would get an O-tick for capturing the wagon or a D-tick for defending it, just like a stronghold or outpost.

There are already NPC guards who escort captured NPC prisoners in Cyrodiil, so that could be added as another type of "moving flag".

Capping these moving flags could have benefits beyond AP, such as loot. But capping and defending them could also have additional effects, either on resources, strongholds, or the players involved in he fight. Buffs, debuffs, etc.

Excerpts originally from or eventually copied into this thread on PvP improvements:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/213766/cyrodiil-overhaul-bads-v-elite-pvdoor-etc

- earning achievements, which doesn't happen often on my most experienced PvP characters anymore.

New achievements from a list I started back in September of 2014, another smaller set from last month, and a few new to this comment...

Righteous Vengeance - Score 50 Revenge kills in the Alliance War
Deadly Avenger - Score 50 Avenge kills in the Alliance War

Unending Retribution - Score 100 Revenge kill in the Alliance War [new]
Dedicated Vigilante - Score 100 Avenge kills in the Alliance War [new]


Exalted Dragonknight Slayer - Kill 250 enemy Dragonknights
Exalted Sorcerer Slayer - Kill 250 enemy Sorcerers
Exalted Templar Slayer - Kill 250 enemy Templars
Exalted Nightblade Slayer - Kill 250 enemy Nightblades

Illustrious Dragonknight Slayer - Kill 500 enemy Dragonknights [new]
Illustrious Sorcerer Slayer - Kill 500 enemy Sorcerers [new]
Illustrious Templar Slayer - Kill 500 enemy Templars [new]
Illustrious Nightblade Slayer - Kill 500 enemy Nightblades [new]

Supreme Dragonknight Slayer - Kill 1000 enemy Dragonknights
Supreme Sorcerer Slayer - Kill 1000 enemy Sorcerers
Supreme Templar Slayer - Kill 1000 enemy Templars
Supreme Nightblade Slayer - Kill 1000 enemy Nightblades


Ravager - Score 5 enemy kills in a minute
Decimator - Score 10 enemy kills in a minute
Devastator - Score 15 enemy kills in a minute
Annihilator - Score 20 enemy kills in a minute

King Maker - Help capture every ring keep on the day your Alliance crowns a new Emperor.
Defender of the Crown - Help successfully defend the last ring keep when your Alliance has Emperor.



Alliance Defender - Defend every home keep in your Alliance's starting territory once.
Cyrodiil Defender - Defend every keep in Cyrodiil once.

Alliance Conqueror - Capture every home keep in the other Alliances' starting territories once.
Cyrodiil Conqueror - Capture every keep in Cyrodiil once.

Resource Management - Defend every resource in your Alliance's starting territory once.
Extended Supply Chain - Defend every resource in Cyrodiil once.

Resource Procurement - Capture every resource in the other Alliances' starting territories once.
Outsourcing - Capture every resource in Cyrodiil once.


Ten in Five - Defeat 5 enemy players from each rival alliance in 5 minutes
Twenty in Ten - Defeat 10 enemy players from each rival alliance in 10 minutes


Scroll Thief - Steal a scroll from an enemy keep.
Scroll Keeper - Place an enemy scroll at a keep controlled by your Alliance.


Buff This - Kill a player while wearing no armor.
Killing Streaker - Kill 10 players while wearing no armor.
Naked Ambition - Kill 50 players while wearing no armor.

With Your Bare Hands - Strike a killing blow with no weapon equipped.
Pernicious Pugilist - Strike 5 killing blows with no weapon equipped.
Unarmed and Extremely Dangerous - Strike 20 killing blows with no weapon equipped.

All except those marked as new from are from these threads/comments:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/131606/small-ish-item-alliance-war-wish-list-for-future-updates
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/243683/naked-and-unarmed-achievements

- having memorable moments connected to a particular campaign/alliance, which works better with campaign/alliance pride.

Millerman34n

Lord-Stien wrote: »

A good way to measure success.

Are you getting a larger amount of Hate mail / death threats from the opposing faction?>

Butt Really.. death threats... when i start getting those .. i know for a fact made an effort theat night ..

And you would think.... After getting death threats.. an d those said players getting reported ... they would no longer be in the game ....

.................

Tankqull

Minno wrote: »

Also: success measured in increments of "fun".

Nothing will ever beat "Friday night drunk raids" with friends or that feeling you get when you and a fellow friend try to solo a reinforment lane.

this. in any hobby success is measured in "fun" wich is impossible to press into numbers as everybody has a different definition of fun.

dRudE

I used to farm for leaderboard positions when the campaign rewards were useful, but between the lag and the removal of master weps from them I lost interest in what position I was in and looked for fun fights. Now I only pvp for the fun of it and to have a laugh with the people in fighting with and against.

ku5h

If I dont ALT+F4 out of the game, because of X reasons that make me rage, I call it a good day!

X-bugs, exploits, lag, loading screen...

zyk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHohEY-IQ_w