Idea to fix OP sorcs: Damage shield does not protect against physical attacks

spoqster · February 2016

Hi all, just wanted to throw out another idea to fix the ubiquitous sorc problem in PvP.

(For those who don't know: Due to their damage shields and mobility sorcs can take and avoid a lot of damage while being able to dish out quite hard. As a result it happens often that even groups of 10 decent players can't kill a good sorc.)

Idea: Change the functionality of damage shields so that they don't shield against physical attacks, but only against magicka based attacks. That solution would not change the balance of the magicka builds, but would make sorcs weaker to stamina based builds.

Please, no hate! I haven't thought this all the way through yet, I just wanted to throw it out and get some thoughts on the matter.

ps. I am not whining or trying to make stam builds OP. The problem is real, and I'm just looking for ways to create a more balanced pvp gameplay, in which a single person can't stand up against 10 others by himself.

EDIT: I can only say this again. This is not a QQ post that I wrote because I got beat up 10 minutes ago. I've seen this happen in PvP again and again and again over the stretch of many months, at least ever since the CS was released.

thelordoffelines · February 2016

No change is necessary one person cant stand up to ten as it is now.

Recremen · February 2016

No way dude their shields aren't even that big of a deal. I mean, they're a big deal, but currently half the players are stam builds using physical attacks. This would instead make sorc shields all but useless. If they really need to adjust the numbers and scaling for it, that will come in time, but I've done a lot of PvP and murdered a lot of sorcs, and it seems to be in an OK spot to me right now.

spoqster · February 2016

thelordoffelines wrote: »

No change is necessary one person cant stand up to ten as it is now.

Wrong. It happens often. It requires good tactical play by the sorc, patience and pulling out individual players if possible. And yes, it's not always possible for the sorc to stand up against 10 players. But it is possible and it happens often.

code65536 · February 2016

1) Harness Magicka does exactly that, except is more cost effective. Remove physical protection, and then why even bother with a sorc shield?

2) This game doesn't center around PvP, and such a foolhardy change would drastically change things in PvE.

threefarms · February 2016

Buff Stamina Templar

lolo_01b16_ESO · February 2016

From my personal experience killing a sorc on a stam build is already easier than doing on a magicka build (even if you don't use shield breaker). So in my opinion that would be an unnecessary nerf. The main thing I'd like to see changed about shields is sweep, so my templar doesn't just tickle them.

thelordoffelines · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

No change is necessary one person cant stand up to ten as it is now.

Wrong. It happens often. It requires good tactical play by the sorc, patience and pulling out individual players if possible. And yes, it's not always possible for the sorc to stand up against 10 players. But it is possible and it happens often.

Not if those players do more than spam light attacks its not. if a sorc (or anyone really) is taking on ten people the problem is with the ten.

PlagueMonk · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

No change is necessary one person cant stand up to ten as it is now.

Wrong. It happens often. It requires good tactical play by the sorc, patience and pulling out individual players if possible. And yes, it's not always possible for the sorc to stand up against 10 players. But it is possible and it happens often.

I actually laughed out loud when I read that original statement. I have seen and actually personally experienced it in PvP. While they did spend the majority of their time keeping their shields up, ONE person being able to out shield 7-10 people beating on you should NOT happen under any circumstance and proves there is a problem.

oh and I don't agree with the OPs suggestion either.

DHale · February 2016

Without hardened ward sorcs would be literally nothing. Yes I main a sorc. I have all classes leveled so I will adapt as I did with my Templar by not playing it.

olsborg · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

Hi all, just wanted to throw out another idea to fix the ubiquitous sorc problem in PvP.

(For those who don't know: Due to their damage shields and mobility sorcs can take and avoid a lot of damage while being able to dish out quite hard. As a result it happens often that even groups of 10 decent players can't kill a good sorc.)

Idea: Change the functionality of damage shields so that they don't shield against physical attacks, but only against magicka based attacks. That solution would not change the balance of the magicka builds, but would make sorcs weaker to stamina based builds.

Please, no hate! I haven't thought this all the way through yet, I just wanted to throw it out and get some thoughts on the matter.

ps. I am not whining or trying to make stam builds OP. The problem is real, and I'm just looking for ways to create a more balanced pvp gameplay, in which a single person can't stand up against 10 others by himself.

Only if we made it so magickal dmg could not be healed by stamina heals.

revonine · February 2016

Sorc shields aren't OP against stamina builds, the shield stacking IS OP against magicka builds.

Wollust · February 2016

Lol stam builds have much less of an issue going through sorcs shield than magicka.

L2p issue

DHale · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

No change is necessary one person cant stand up to ten as it is now.

Wrong. It happens often. It requires good tactical play by the sorc, patience and pulling out individual players if possible. And yes, it's not always possible for the sorc to stand up against 10 players. But it is possible and it happens often.

You are talking about baddies. There really is no one v X against good players. One v X ing against baddies is sometimes comically easy.

Waffennacht · February 2016

Nb magcka shield stacking = sorc bane

If it's 10 v16 against 1 v16 they are horrid

If 10 v1 vs 1 v16 then its cus they too low

2 versus 1 should be gg just spambush stun lock forever

No reason anyone to fight ten and live with gap closer stun o death.

olsborg · February 2016

revonine wrote: »

Sorc shields aren't OP against stamina builds, the shield stacking IS OP against magicka builds.

Well put!

Rex-Umbra · February 2016

So make it so only stam builds can beat sorcs? Terrible idea.

spoqster · February 2016

Recremen wrote: »

No way dude their shields aren't even that big of a deal. I mean, they're a big deal, but currently half the players are stam builds using physical attacks. This would instead make sorc shields all but useless. If they really need to adjust the numbers and scaling for it, that will come in time, but I've done a lot of PvP and murdered a lot of sorcs, and it seems to be in an OK spot to me right now.

Earlier today I had an encounter where I hit a sorc with 3 or 4 full distance Crit Rushes while chasing him. The sorc did not lose health at all. At the end I was out of stamina. You're saying that's the way it should be?

revonine · February 2016

I will add though that next patch magicka builds will pull ahead and Sorcs will be at the forefront. Their shields will inherent the new Hardy changes. I suspect alot of stamina builds will switch to shieldbreaker.

Jhunn · February 2016

spoqster · February 2016

Wollust wrote: »

Lol stam builds have much less of an issue going through sorcs shield than magicka.

L2p issue

I'd love for it to be a L2P issue. But that would mean it's a L2P issue for all of the 10, not only for me. I've seen this so often that it's not coincidence. And it's not even that the 10 people can't get the sorc down. Most of the time they can, but that requires all of them to hit on the sorc for over a minute while he out-shields a whole group.

If I were the game's designer I wouldn't allow that.

spoqster · February 2016

DHale wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

No change is necessary one person cant stand up to ten as it is now.

Wrong. It happens often. It requires good tactical play by the sorc, patience and pulling out individual players if possible. And yes, it's not always possible for the sorc to stand up against 10 players. But it is possible and it happens often.

You are talking about baddies. There really is no one v X against good players. One v X ing against baddies is sometimes comically easy.

Well it is my opinion, that 1 v Xing even against baddies shouldn't be possible. And seriously I might not be the best pvp player out there, but I wouldn't consider myself a baddie. If I crit rush someone three times and hit him with a Wrecking Blow, I expect his health to be at least at 50%, no questions asked.

revonine · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Lol stam builds have much less of an issue going through sorcs shield than magicka.

L2p issue

I'd love for it to be a L2P issue. But that would mean it's a L2P issue for all of the 10, not only for me. I've seen this so often that it's not coincidence. And it's not even that the 10 people can't get the sorc down. Most of the time they can, but that requires all of them to hit on the sorc for over a minute while he out-shields a whole group.

If I were the game's designer I wouldn't allow that.

Stam builds only need to cut through Hardened Ward + Healing Ward. Magicka builds need to outdps Hardened + harness + healing + whatever points that Sorc has in Hardy.

AlnilamE · February 2016

Does the sorc kill the 10, though? Or do they just spend all their time casting shields and have no time to attack?

There are shields that resits physical damage and shields that resist magickal damage and shileds that do both.

spoqster · February 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

If 10 v1 vs 1 v16 then its cus they too low.

Players are scaled up in PvP. A v1 should not be weaker than a v16.

mtwiggz · February 2016

spoqster wrote: »

Hi all, just wanted to throw out another idea to fix the ubiquitous sorc problem in PvP.

(For those who don't know: Due to their damage shields and mobility sorcs can take and avoid a lot of damage while being able to dish out quite hard. As a result it happens often that even groups of 10 decent players can't kill a good sorc.)

Idea: Change the functionality of damage shields so that they don't shield against physical attacks, but only against magicka based attacks. That solution would not change the balance of the magicka builds, but would make sorcs weaker to stamina based builds.

Please, no hate! I haven't thought this all the way through yet, I just wanted to throw it out and get some thoughts on the matter.

ps. I am not whining or trying to make stam builds OP. The problem is real, and I'm just looking for ways to create a more balanced pvp gameplay, in which a single person can't stand up against 10 others by himself.

A group of 10 players that can't kill one Sorc are no where near decent.

spoqster · February 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

Does the sorc kill the 10, though? Or do they just spend all their time casting shields and have no time to attack?

There are shields that resits physical damage and shields that resist magickal damage and shileds that do both.

I've seen it every which way, and it depends on the skill of the players.

What usually happens, is that the sorc can take a lot of damage from a lot of players and still has enough magicka to get away. Sometimes he'll get away completely, sometimes he gets chased down and gets eventually killed, and sometimes he kills a few players or the whole group by picking them off one by one.

byCrux · February 2016

If sorc shields were just magicka based, every Stam build would beat the *** out of sorcs.

Ragnaroek93 · February 2016

You don't want to fix shieldstacking, you want to destroy the sorc class (and magicka classes in general). Use shieldbreaker if you have so many problems against sorcs.

Decado · February 2016

I didn't read all the comment so I have no idea if these points have been mentioned but I shall list them anyway,

1) what you are suggesting is already in the game, it's a shield in the light armour tree

2) next patch there is actually a CP tree dedicated to killing shields

3) there is also a set to kill shields (yes I know it's niche and not used often)

4) such a change would effect PvE aswel

5) the real "problem" isn't hardened ward, the real "problem" is healing ward, hardened ward together, healing ward is an awesome heal that can save you from certain death, add that into a instant 9k damage shield you start to become very hard to kill

Wollust · February 2016

If 10 people can't take down even the best sorc out there, they are just crap players. That's it.
And if you say you are against 1vX you just admit that you want to make the game rather number based instead of skill based, which also says you're just a crap player yourself.