Idea to fix OP sorcs: Damage shield does not protect against physical attacks

Vaoh

@KoshkaMurka Thank you for saying this. I wish that the majority of forum posters could have this same mindset.

"Magicka Sorcerer" has managed to become a hated playstyle now. Shields are utilized effectively by good players and make 1vXing look easy against bad players (capable with all classes though). So many nerf threads. Nowadays ZOS is considering ways to nerf Hardened Ward and I'm not happy about it. Makes me mad how people literally complaining that they aren't good enough manage to get the developers to do these things.

As a console player I can safely tell you that the most unused playstyle is Magicka DK, because it is so weak in comparison to other playstyles. I'm afraid this may be the magicka sorc eventually if ZOS does something ridiculous to shieldstacking.

Btw, when you said you were against deliberate nerfs I took it as you didn't want a drastic change like a cast time/only absorb physical damage on Hardened Ward, but rather a different tweaking to make shields slightly weaker overall. Nvm though, doesn't matter now.

AOECAPS

easy way to fix sorc shields
1)remove battle spirit with shield effects
2) make shields crittable and allow procs on shields (aedric spear passive) allow DK dots to apply on shields
3) don't allow shield stacks

itscompton

spoqster wrote: »

Hi all, just wanted to throw out another idea to fix the ubiquitous sorc problem in PvP.

(For those who don't know: Due to their damage shields and mobility sorcs can take and avoid a lot of damage while being able to dish out quite hard. As a result it happens often that even groups of 10 decent players can't kill a good sorc.)

Idea: Change the functionality of damage shields so that they don't shield against physical attacks, but only against magicka based attacks. That solution would not change the balance of the magicka builds, but would make sorcs weaker to stamina based builds.

Please, no hate! I haven't thought this all the way through yet, I just wanted to throw it out and get some thoughts on the matter.

ps. I am not whining or trying to make stam builds OP. The problem is real, and I'm just looking for ways to create a more balanced pvp gameplay, in which a single person can't stand up against 10 others by himself.

EDIT: I can only say this again. This is not a QQ post that I wrote because I got beat up 10 minutes ago. I've seen this happen in PvP again and again and again over the stretch of many months, at least ever since the CS was released.

terrible idea.

Digerati

the ratio of scrubs to pros is worse than 10:1.

10 scrubs are often unable to kill 1 good sorc. That's a problem. 10 scrubs can easily kill 1 any other class besides nightblades... The difference is that the nightblade avoids death by dipping out. The sorc is there, in your face, just laughing behind his shields... It's a real problem.

But the problem isn't that their shields are so effective, it's that they can endlessly cover themselves in shields if their magicka regen is right.

The solution: create more abilities that provide effective magicka and stamina regen debuffs, or even straight drains. Every class should have a few ways to do stat damage outside of health. That's a missing dynamic, and it's sorely missed.

Thornen

All they need to do is make wards and harness magicka unstackable while giving sorcs ward a 25% increase in strength to compensate.

spoqster

Digerati wrote: »

the ratio of scrubs to pros is worse than 10:1.

10 scrubs are often unable to kill 1 good sorc. That's a problem. 10 scrubs can easily kill 1 any other class besides nightblades... The difference is that the nightblade avoids death by dipping out. The sorc is there, in your face, just laughing behind his shields... It's a real problem.

But the problem isn't that their shields are so effective, it's that they can endlessly cover themselves in shields if their magicka regen is right.

The solution: create more abilities that provide effective magicka and stamina regen debuffs, or even straight drains. Every class should have a few ways to do stat damage outside of health. That's a missing dynamic, and it's sorely missed.

good points. what about disabling magicka regen while a shield is up?

would be symmerical to blocking and stam regen.

Digerati

spoqster wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

the ratio of scrubs to pros is worse than 10:1.

10 scrubs are often unable to kill 1 good sorc. That's a problem. 10 scrubs can easily kill 1 any other class besides nightblades... The difference is that the nightblade avoids death by dipping out. The sorc is there, in your face, just laughing behind his shields... It's a real problem.

But the problem isn't that their shields are so effective, it's that they can endlessly cover themselves in shields if their magicka regen is right.

The solution: create more abilities that provide effective magicka and stamina regen debuffs, or even straight drains. Every class should have a few ways to do stat damage outside of health. That's a missing dynamic, and it's sorely missed.

good points. what about disabling magicka regen while a shield is up?

would be symmerical to blocking and stam regen.

No I don't think that'd be a good idea... Especially if they add magicka drains or siphons... I think that a player should be able to have the magicka regen to sustain themselves in PvE and against tons of player damage... I'd be down to even make shields stronger, IF there were a hard counter or a way to synergize attacks better...

It seems right now, newbies and weaker characters are stuck hanging out whipping resto staff or they can fly in and get slaughtered while hitting people with a feather pillow... If they had a better way to actively contribute to a fight, a way to make their presence felt by the extremely powerful hard targets, it would be a lot more fun for new players to participate.

If you have 10 people, and 9 of them are derpy-derping after a sorc, smacking him with everything they've got as he laughs, then all the sudden that one last guy hits him with a magicka siphon... Shields wear off and sorc goes poof.

I think templars are a perfect candidate for specializing in stamina and magicka drains and regen debuffs. They're supposed to be the masters of sustain... problem is, at the high levels, everyone can sustain with smart stat management... And it really is a burst vs burst fight... Magicka and stamina damage should be a thing. Let templars remain the weakest burst damage but give them real mastery over sustain... Every class should get a way to attack magicka, at least... Throwing simple roots or stuns is effective at removing people's stamina, but there is no solution for an endless magicka pool.

We need a solution for endless magicka. Then, things like shielding yourself indefinitely will become far more difficult...

CP5

spoqster wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

And here I am reading all the sorcerers post screaming "L2P".

Sorcerers don't fight it ZOS even admitted damage shields are OP and are looking for ways to make them balanced be the major system or adding a cast times to them. Face it your 1vX days are near a end accepted like most DKs did when they started to get nerfed shortly after PC launch.

Do shields need to be addressed? Yes, is turning ward into another annulment and make shields in general worthless to stamina builds the answer? No. And the only people who are 1vXing are either kiting and only ever fighting 1v1 or 1v2, or the enemies are potatoes. Seriously, no matter what ZOS does people will always complain about that evil sorc that dared to bolt away and ZOS will always find something to nerf on them.

Do you have any idea how frustrating it can be if another player taunts you by throwing a few spells your way, and you just can't kill him because he teleports away? Even if you ignore him, he comes back to do it again and again until you finally give in and then he finds some way to kill you. I don't usually fall for it, but has happened to me and it's pretty annoying.

Think about it. PvP is like sports. Now think about someone showing that kind of behavior (and being allowed to) on a basketball court. He'd try that two times and the third time some would probably punch him in the nuts. Game over.

That's the whole reason for my suggestion in the first place. If they have streak let them be weak to swords. Either they get away or they get slaughtered. Or keep the shields, but don't let them teleport away. Giving them tanking and mobility just seems odd.

Anyway, it was just an idea.

It was already said but I think its worth repeating. What about those dk's that taunt you by attacking you then use reflective scales when your primary damage source is single target skills? What about when you are trying to kill someone and that someone is able to, self heal? Isn't it so irritating when a sorc bolts or a nb cloaks or anyone uses defensive skills and los to avoid getting killed?

I've been in ts with people who rage sometimes when good players kite them and think about not only their skills but their positioning as well, but if you seriously expect someone to sit still, lay down, and just let you kill them so you don't get frustrated with their attempts to survive, then perhaps open world pvp isn't the best thing.

gamerguy757

Are you serious? I'm a sorc and the shields should be stronger. When you have stam builds dishing out 15k+ damage per Wrecking Blow and Focused Aim, this post doesn't even make sense.

revonine

gamerguy757 wrote: »

Are you serious? I'm a sorc and the shields should be stronger. When you have stam builds dishing out 15k+ damage per Wrecking Blow and Focused Aim, this post doesn't even make sense.

At the same time laughing at other magicka builds that cannot even touch your health while you receive free casts of Harness Magicka fighting them from all the return it gives you sitting under Hardened Ward. If Sorc shields got stronger they would be invincible against other magicka builds.

The shield stacking of Harness and Hardened needs to go. Period.

All stamina builds are getting nerfed next patch while magicka builds are getting stronger with Sorc being the posterchild. Any Sorc next patch with enough potions and stamina recovery will be ridiculously difficult to kill while throwing out top tier burst.

Waffennacht

I have come across stamina builds that can literally take Overload light attacks and NOT have their health move

DKs that completely laugh at sorcs and flap all day long

Magicka NBs stacking healing ward and harness magicka, quite literally a build I could do nothing about as magicka sorc, while they cloak and combine proxy det for 25k

I have not seen a sorcerer escape 2 or more enemies in a year

I can settle for something to inhibit or limit shield stacking.

But my experience knows, if I cannot spam hardened ward, or have it insta cast, then the sorcerer becomes absolutely worthless magicka class.

You may think it'll become "balanced" but let me assure you, this will make every mediocre or bad sorcerer player QQ harder than anything before. It'll make the better players re roll. There would be no reason to roll a sorc especially with the poor selection for stamina sorcs.

revonine

Waffennacht wrote: »

Magicka NBs stacking healing ward and harness magicka, quite literally a build I could do nothing about as magicka sorc, while they cloak and combine proxy det for 25k

I have a magblade and a magicka Sorc. On my magblade my most infuriating opponent is a well played magicka Sorc. Funnily enough my easiest kills on my magicka Sorc are magblades excluding the scenarios where they get the jump on you. However if you have harness and hardened up it's impossible to burst through that much defense immediately on another magicka build you will have time to recover.

If your opponent magblade is dual wielding and you see them load up a proxy det and cloak up, they are moving in for a Concealed Stun. Pop an immovable pot and streak through. If you get the stun you'll have time to unload your own burst. Next patch replace the pot with Inner Light.

americansteel

1 shield and 1 shield only in PvP nuff said.

CP5

americansteel wrote: »

1 shield and 1 shield only in PvP nuff said.

What about 1 attack and 1 attack only, or is insane burst with animation canceling allowed but defenses against it not?

Recremen

spoqster wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

No way dude their shields aren't even that big of a deal. I mean, they're a big deal, but currently half the players are stam builds using physical attacks. This would instead make sorc shields all but useless. If they really need to adjust the numbers and scaling for it, that will come in time, but I've done a lot of PvP and murdered a lot of sorcs, and it seems to be in an OK spot to me right now.

Earlier today I had an encounter where I hit a sorc with 3 or 4 full distance Crit Rushes while chasing him. The sorc did not lose health at all. At the end I was out of stamina. You're saying that's the way it should be?

Yes, this is definitely fine. The fact that you never hit their health seems indicative of a different problem, either because your damage is extremely low or they had the opportunity to recast shields. That you were only able to do 3 or 4 Crit Rushes shows that you have resource management issues. Both are fixable on your end and aren't an issue with sorc shields. Case and point, I can half-distance Crit Rush and take out most escaping sorc shields in 2 hits. There's a lot of different factors playing into this, but I'm sure with more experience you'll be able to fight them better.

Bofrari

Sure I'm okay with this as soon as they make bol only heal magic damage received, flappy wings on reflect physical damage and clock only while attacked my magic damage dealers

Mettaricana

[Edited to removing insulting content]

Just no

Recremen

[Quoted content removed]

Wow, rude.

Bofrari

Mettaricana wrote: »

[Edited to removing insulting content]

Just no

It's not his ideas are dumb he honestly thinks it needs done. Me and 2 other players last night were running around ic top side jumping people we came across a 10 man ep zerg and wipe them with ease over and over too the point they wouldn't come back not counting all the other 5 and 6 man groups we wiped. It's the fact that some players are just horrible they get this crap in their head that its the other persons fought they are loosing when in fact it's them. We should not be able to wipe a 10 man group at all but it's just the fact some people are new or just simply can't play

americansteel

CP5 wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

1 shield and 1 shield only in PvP nuff said.

What about 1 attack and 1 attack only, or is insane burst with animation canceling allowed but defenses against it not?

yet it fine to have super defenses against UP mag plars and mag knights? 1 shield!

Kova

We've already solved the problem. There shouldn't be anymore threads about shields until it gets accepted.

Increase shield strength and make them crittable.

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CP5

americansteel wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

1 shield and 1 shield only in PvP nuff said.

What about 1 attack and 1 attack only, or is insane burst with animation canceling allowed but defenses against it not?

yet it fine to have super defenses against UP mag plars and mag knights? 1 shield!

The game favors damage far to much at the moment, and as long as people have this insane damage we have 2 choices, allow strong defense or go full FPS mode and have fights be won by who strikes first. Your call.

dday3six

There's the thing, CC is your friend. In a long fight stop being dense and using it every 6s. Use it to create to openings to win.

What some people seem to misunderstand about 1vX is that there is most often at least one randscum jack-off who will give the 1 CC immunity every 6s like clockwork. That lets to them living through the close to dead moments because they cannnot be pinned down during them.

Winning solo against a disorganized blob of pug players, operating on zerg auto-pilot is not near as impressive as some seem to think it is. 1vX wins rarely happen against balanced groups with communication and leadership.

Artjuh90

Kova wrote: »

We've already solved the problem. There shouldn't be anymore threads about shields until it gets accepted.

Increase shield strength and make them crittable.

i think most people can agree with this. with the exception of some sorc. but those sorc are the same like the NB who think the class will be dead because the cloak nerf.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Kova wrote: »

We've already solved the problem. There shouldn't be anymore threads about shields until it gets accepted.

Increase shield strength and make them crittable.

i think most people can agree with this. with the exception of some sorc. but those sorc are the same like the NB who think the class will be dead because the cloak nerf.

Yeah, I'd be fine with shields being crittable, DoTable etc and have only one shield up at any time, but then that one shield needs to be buffed up too to not make it useless as right now there's already lots of people doing 10-15k dps and that's just about what a single shield will be right now.

Cinnamon_Spider

FFS what made you think this was at all a good idea? You want to completely remove the purpose of Hardened Ward.

If you and nine friends can't take down a solo sorc, the issue is with you and your friends.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

FFS what made you think this was at all a good idea? You want to completely remove the purpose of Hardened Ward.

If you and nine friends can't take down a solo sorc, the issue is with you and your friends.

Yeah, the suggestion from OP wasn't very well thought out in terms of balance, but some other things they can do is to make only 1 shield usable at any time, or a major/minor system with them making shields crittable, dotable etc while buffing up overall shield strength so that they're viable to use as a defence against the most hard hitting skills.

Brutusmax1mus

Can this thread get deleted please? !

Change the title to "ignore this thread" or "delete this thread "

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Asherons_Call

Not broken, no fix needed. Constant nerf threads need to stop