One of the biggest issues with this game is the players

Horus6

I know, I know the title is going to bring fourth endless rage in waves of salty tears but it's a fact.

Every instance I run people are not understanding basic mmorpg concepts, and the sad thing is that if you're good enough you don't have to follow the rules of a standard mmo but it's still good practice to do so.

Example: When adds spawn on a boss you don't ignore the adds you kill the adds and then the boss.

Example: You don't stand in the red, you interrupt the boss when possible (which should be every time) so that you don't get stomped into the ground. I mean come on even console gamers should know not to stand in the fire.

ZoS you need to give out some training videos for all the gamer's that came here so that they can understand how to play an mmo better.


[Minor edit for context]

WalkingLegacy

Gotta love the Skyrim crowd.

Tryxus

Horus6 wrote: »

I mean come on even console gamers should know not to stand in the fire.

There are games where you have to stand in the fire to transform and gain pyrokinetic powers

tinythinker

Same thing for PvP. People *know* not to stack in giant balls and spam, yet, regularly a large percentage of players in PvP stack in giant balls and spam. Yes, the code should be able to handle it better, yes, things like removing or (better yet) inverting AoE caps might help, *but*, that doesn't change the massive contribution by players to making PvP just awful sometimes.

ADarklore

Horus6 wrote: »

ZoS you need to give out some training videos for all the console gamer's that came here so that they canl understand how to play an mmo better.

There are already videos out there which show various ways to play ESO, just because you're on console doesn't mean you don't have internet access to watch YouTube videos. From my experience with another MMO (DCUO) on console, players play how THEY want, most of them (again, speaking of console players) have an attitude believing they already know what they're doing and refuse to accept anyone's advice. I used to read countless forum posts like this over there, players complaining about the 'lack of skill or training' in playing the game, but the fact remains, even when other players tried to help teach someone, they would refuse to listen and argue about how they knew what they were doing.

Also keep in mind that ESO is not a 'typical' MMO in that the majority of players are single player gamers who are Elder Scrolls fans and are not interested in playing ESO in a regular MMO way. Most of the game (solo content) doesn't revolve around learning roles and many who do group content don't do it regularly enough to care about learning their role.

NewBlacksmurf

It's you and I who are to teach and share our strategies. If you go in and assume ppl either know the fights or assume they're going to play a certain way then you are also those people you describe.

Be open to different ways and be open to reality...some ppl are very bad at video games and team work but they play for fun....sometimes screwing up is fun for some

Horus6

ADarklore wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

ZoS you need to give out some training videos for all the console gamer's that came here so that they canl understand how to play an mmo better.

There are already videos out there which show various ways to play ESO, just because you're on console doesn't mean you don't have internet access to watch YouTube videos. From my experience with another MMO (DCUO) on console, players play how THEY want, most of them (again, speaking of console players) have an attitude believing they already know what they're doing and refuse to accept anyone's advice. I used to read countless forum posts like this over there, players complaining about the 'lack of skill or training' in playing the game, but the fact remains, even when other players tried to help teach someone, they would refuse to listen and argue about how they knew what they were doing.

Also keep in mind that ESO is not a 'typical' MMO in that the majority of players are single player gamers who are Elder Scrolls fans and are not interested in playing ESO in a regular MMO way. Most of the game (solo content) doesn't revolve around learning roles and many who do group content don't do it regularly enough to care about learning their role.

I can agree with most of this except for the fact that virtually all end game content revolves around playing with other people which means bad players (more specifically the players you're talking about) hurt the end game content.

The ones that are just bad over time will inevitably learn I can concede to that, but these guys that come from their silly consoles and think an mmorpg (regardless of how different it is from a tab target) is the same as their single player game..

Some thing has to be done about them.

Gidorick

I say this EXACT thing about the world in general... It would be pretty great if it weren't for all the people around.

Alucardo

Some people are just casual gamers, generally not very adept at picking up skills or simply don't care enough.

I get where you're coming from though, it can be frustrating. While I don't PVE, the same thing goes for PVP. I was in a 2v5, feeling pretty confident even though outnumbered, but then the guy I was with started hard casting frags and not putting his shields up. He died very early in the fight, leaving me to deal with them all. I didn't say anything to him because he apologised in private before I even said anything. I think he knew he underperformed, and you can't really get angry about that - we've all been there.
Tbf he was a VR16 Tyro, so obviously not too experienced in PVP. We can wish they were better all we want, but all you can really do is have patience and give them tips along the way.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

The problem with this game is that large groups get the same stealth bonus as solo players and they get more AP.

If you go in solo you know that it's better to kill the adds cause they die fast and you wouldn't have the boss and adds hitting you.
But if you're in a group why care the Tank can taunt the big hitters and boss a good healer and tank will make adds ignorable.

The best skill builder is going solo for a week when you can live and kill solo being in a small group will make you seem like a God.
This is an MMO but it's geared toward solo play. Solo is too core to TES gaming it's hard to balance MMO norms & TES exceptions.

Horus6

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's you and I who are to teach and share our strategies. If you go in and assume ppl either know the fights or assume they're going to play a certain way then you are also those people you describe.

Be open to different ways and be open to reality...some ppl are very bad at video games and team work but they play for fun....sometimes screwing up is fun for some

[snip]

1. It's hard enough to convince your typical pc gamer that they're not doing some thing right, and that they should listen to you so that you can explain to them what to do.

2. When you try to explain fights to people 50 % will rage quit, 45 % will ignore you completely and the remaining 5 % will listen

3. Now think about the fact that not every one speaks English Which can also make It more difficult to explain fights to people when you're in that situation.

Now as pointed out the majority of the console gamer's aren't playing this because they want to interact with other players or even because they want to play an mmorpg to them this is just not part of the elder scrolls saga.

And those guys/girls have no interest what so ever in learning how to play the game properly they just want to have their fun and couldn't careless if you get yours.


[Edited for baiting]

Horus6

Alucardo wrote: »

Some people are just casual gamers, generally not very adept at picking up skills or simply don't care enough.

I get where you're coming from though, it can be frustrating. While I don't PVE, the same thing goes for PVP. I was in a 2v5, feeling pretty confident even though outnumbered, but then the guy I was with started hard casting frags and not putting his shields up. He died very early in the fight, leaving me to deal with them all. I didn't say anything to him because he apologised in private before I even said anything. I think he knew he underperformed, and you can't really get angry about that - we've all been there.
Tbf he was a VR16 Tyro, so obviously not too experienced in PVP. We can wish they were better all we want, but all you can really do is have patience and give them tips along the way.

Even casuals (in regards to casual pc gamers) understand the basic concepts of an mmorpg, I'm not saying they will accept or follow the standard conventions because you know they don't most of the time... But the console gamer's are just point blank refusing to accept that this game is an mmorpg and because of this they treat like it's a single player game.

ADarklore

Horus6 wrote: »

I can agree with most of this except for the fact that virtually all end game content revolves around playing with other people which means bad players (more specifically the players you're talking about) hurt the end game content.

The ones that are just bad over time will inevitably learn I can concede to that, but these guys that come from their silly consoles and think an mmorpg (regardless of how different it is from a tab target) is the same as their single player game..

Some thing has to be done about them.

First off, you can't force players to play how you want them to play, which means you either accept that pug groups may suck or you only group with Guildmates.

Second, not sure what 'end game' content you're referring to but ESO continues to provide solo content in DLCs- so there really is no standard for what 'end game' is in ESO- end game content means different things to different people.


[Minor edit for quote

Horus6

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

The problem with this game is that large groups get the same stealth bonus as solo players and they get more AP.

If you go in solo you know that it's better to kill the adds cause they die fast and you wouldn't have the boss and adds hitting you.
But if you're in a group why care the Tank can taunt the big hitters and boss a good healer and tank will make adds ignorable.

The best skill builder is going solo for a week when you can live and kill solo being in a small group will make you seem like a God.
This is an MMO but it's geared toward solo play. Solo is too core to TES gaming it's hard to balance MMO norms & TES exceptions.

[snip]

Yes it's geared towards solo play in the beginning of the game but running end game content like veteran instances, pvp etc.. Is geared for group play.

And if you don't follow simple mmorpg rules you will fail.

You can bend them but you can't break them.


[Edited to remove bait]

NewBlacksmurf

@Horus6
[snip] I don't know you but I'm picking up on a certain form or style that while it may fit your personal definition of how a MMORPG should be played, it's helpful to consider there are many other "right ways".

Another point is the developers designed this game as a game and made great attempts to remove any MMORPG stigma as the term MMORPG is only a role playing game on servers with massive players. The trinity, call n response combat and conventional gear and weapon limitations don't apply here.

I believe you'd have more positive experiences if you open up to people, and only offer advice when they ask for it.
Happy gaming

[Edit for baiting]

ADarklore

Horus6 wrote: »

[snip] ESO is not a TYPICAL MMO yet he insists on trying to force everyone to play like it is a traditional MMO. He even adds the MMORPG but doesn't seem to understand exactly what RPG means- and it has nothing to do with the usual MMO 'roles'.


[Edited for baiting and to remove quote]

Reverb

If your dps is high enough, ignoring the adds and just burning the boss is exactly the right strategy.

People who don't understand group play aren't like that because of a lack of videos. The 'net abounds with videos, on this game and all others.

The biggest problem with sharing anything with other people will always be...other people. You don't sound like you're doing much to help.

sekou_trayvond

I dunno...

I play on PC NA.

I run dungeons and either I have forgotten the mechanics for a particular boss or another person says, " hey, never done this one..lil help."

So communicate. Help out. Be encouraging, like "good job tank" or "fantastic heals" or "hey, we were sharper that time around"

Makes a world of difference in my enjoyability.

But, hey, YMMV, I suppose.

Alucardo

ADarklore wrote: »

ESO is not a TYPICAL MMO yet he insists on trying to force everyone to play like it is a traditional MMO. He even adds the MMORPG but doesn't seem to understand exactly what RPG means- and it has nothing to do with the usual MMO 'roles'.

I do understand his frustration. If you're spending time and working hard to achieve something, yet people keep standing in red circles, or generally playing really bad it lets the whole team down. You just want to scream at them to GET GOOD.
Publicly raging on the forums is the wrong way to go about it though, and makes you look like a bit of a jerk. Telling them where they went wrong and how to fix it for next time might get him places however.


[Minor Edit for Quote]

ADarklore

sekou_trayvond wrote: »

I play on PC NA.

And ^this is the difference. Having played MMOs on console and PC, I can say that my experiences with other players on PC has been vastly different from those on console.

TequilaFire

#nerfplayers

smh

ADarklore

Alucardo wrote: »

I do understand his frustration. If you're spending time and working hard to achieve something, yet people keep standing in red circles, or generally playing really bad it lets the whole team down. You just want to scream at them to GET GOOD.
Publicly raging on the forums is the wrong way to go about it though, and makes you look like a bit of a jerk. Telling them where they went wrong and how to fix it for next time might get him places however.

Absolutely agree!

failkiwib16_ESO

..the majority of the most horrible players I've met, have been sweet and aware that they didn't do so good, but I do admit that I have met 3-4 people with a horrible attitude on top of horrible play xD

OP if you want to avoid trouble with groups, don't do dailies and focus on socializing a little... once you get good players as friends and guildies, then stick to doing dungeons with them. It solves a lot of headache

Alucardo

JoshenReborn

The console vs pc platform debate is really ridiculous. As a person who has played mmos on pc, and has consistently owned various generations of consoles, I simply consider myself a gamer. The superiority complex you gentleman feel based on your method of input into the game is astounding. Players will come in all levels of skill, you can't force someone to your skill level by aggressively explaining mechanics. Just play the game, if you don't like pugs play with friends. [snip]

[Edited to remove insult]

Lysette

Tryxus wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

I mean come on even console gamers should know not to stand in the fire.

There are games where you have to stand in the fire to transform and gain pyrokinetic powers

As a character with the atronach birthsign - like in oblivion - or the atronach stone - in skyrim - that is exactly what you do, stand in magic fire and absorb the magic to refill your magicka.

tinythinker

Lysette wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

I mean come on even console gamers should know not to stand in the fire.

There are games where you have to stand in the fire to transform and gain pyrokinetic powers

As a character with the atronach birthsign - like in oblivion - or the atronach stone - in skyrim - that is exactly what you do, stand in magic fire and absorb the magic to refill your magicka.

This could use a separate thread on some new mechanics...

Voxicity

As someone who plays and has played various MMO's for fun since I was 13, I actually love these kind of people and much prefer them to those people who treat this game (and others) so damn seriously.

If someone is dying in my group, I'll give them tips. If they continue to die, we'll make a joke about it. If they continue to die and we just can't progress, I'll say thank you for the group and wish them a great rest of their day.

Casual gamer, Skyrim crowd, Console peasant... I'd much rather be called one of these.

[snip]

EDIT: Just been in a vet dungeon with a tank using a bow and no taunts, I changed my mind


[Edited for baiting comment]

Strider_Roshin

As a player that has played both on PC and console, I can safely say that this is not just a console issue. Although this issue is easier to fix on console due to the majority of players having a mic, and players are more receptive to auditory criticism rather than through text.

NewBlacksmurf

JoshenReborn wrote: »

The console vs pc platform debate is really ridiculous. As a person who has played mmos on pc, and has consistently owned various generations of consoles, I simply consider myself a gamer. The superiority complex you gentleman feel based on your method of input into the game is astounding. Players will come in all levels of skill, you can't force someone to your skill level by aggressively explaining mechanics. Just play the game, if you don't like pugs play with friends.

<applause>


[Minor edit for quote

Lysette

tinythinker wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Horus6 wrote: »

I mean come on even console gamers should know not to stand in the fire.

There are games where you have to stand in the fire to transform and gain pyrokinetic powers

As a character with the atronach birthsign - like in oblivion - or the atronach stone - in skyrim - that is exactly what you do, stand in magic fire and absorb the magic to refill your magicka.

This could use a separate thread on some new mechanics...

There are absorption glyphs for weapons in ESO - for example you can put stamina absorption on a blade and make all the weapon abilities with it less costly, if you use a mix of skills and normal attacks. Same is possible for magicka. I think those are glyphs which are helpful when you have a hybrid build - might not be that useful in a pure min/max build though.