"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System."

TheBonesXXX

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm happy that there won't be any PvP outside of cyrodiil. PvP is such a toxic waste anyway and it's not needed outside of cyrodiil, keep it there and leave the rest of the game fun without griefers around every corner.

How venomous, "toxic waste" of "griefers"

I don't grief.

MornaBaine

All they needed to do was implement a PvP flagging system. Wanna play cops & robbers with other players? Flag yourself for PvP and then go steal something. Want to be a thief who only has to worry about the NPC guards? Then just don't flag yourself and carry on as usual. Really, it wouldn't have been that hard.

Magdalina

MornaBaine wrote: »

All they needed to do was implement a PvP flagging system. Wanna play cops & robbers with other players? Flag yourself for PvP and then go steal something. Want to be a thief who only has to worry about the NPC guards? Then just don't flag yourself and carry on as usual. Really, it wouldn't have been that hard.

But effort. Can't spend time on that.
Gotta work on new zebra bear mount or something.

Starshadw

Divinius wrote: »

The way the justice system is designed, committing crimes is almost a necessity (and actually is a necessity to complete some quests). Presumably, the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood DLCs will involve committing a LOT of crimes.

Some people just really hate PvP. Those people shouldn't have to limit their gold-making options, avoid certain quests, and be locked out of entire DLCs because what should be a completed unrelated "justice system" got stupidly incorporated into PvP.

This was by far the smartest decision they could have made.

And this, I think, is the real reason they nixxed it - because while adding in a toggle would certainly stop accidental stealing (and I really wish they would add in such a toggle because I have a character that I don't wish to steal anything with, and it's happened a couple of times accidentally), it wouldn't do anything to help the purposeful crime-committing we're likely to have to do as part of going through the DLC. It's likely too much to hope that ZOS was able to essentially double the content of these DLCs - half for those who don't mind committing crimes, and half for those that prefer to avoid it. No one should be forced into PvP because they purchased a DLC and are going through the quests.

I also suspect that they were having trouble figuring out what to do about AOE skills and how they would function in a PvP situation in the PvE world. When a person can send a random heal out and end up aggroing PvE guards because the heal landed on a player currently in trouble with the law, I can only imagine the headaches involved in deciding what would happen when skills like Steel Tornado were used against a player in PvE-land.

ralonasan

Officially the start of Elder Carebears Online.

Black Desert, here we come.

ralonasan

As I and others said in many threads before this was announced, the justice system died when the lead designer quit.

Just wait until something like this happens to content you've been looking forward to. Then you'll understand the significance of this announcement.

With this the game will fall ever further down the path of cash grab DLC with no depth that can be cleared in 12 hours.

RIP

Islyn

wayfarerx wrote: »

So, what happens when one of the guild traders moves while I'm trying to shop and I accidentally steal a fish or something? Seems like a mis-click shouldn't result in automatic ZERG DEATH.

Nothing, now.

Vlakmir

I don't care what any hardcore anti-pvper says - there is a very easy way to design the game to prevent things from greatly affecting you.

1. Click on options. Enable Justicar system. Enables you to be a part of the system. Warning explains to new players what this entails. Without enabling this, you will not be able to be targeted by players when committing crimes.


That is an incredibly simple solution that would completely solve everyone's irrational fear-mongering about bringing world PVP into the world.

The only complaint people could make is that "Other people are participating in an activity I don't want to see in my PVE area".- which is a complaint that anyone could make about anything in the game itself (I don't like see crafters everywhere. I hate people using the bank. Bla bla bla". It's just an invalid argument.



The lack of the PVP justicar system is not a surprise. You could tell they were explicit not mentioning it because they knew they weren't going to implement it. The biggest let down is not so much of a lack of new and innovating experience, but the incredibly dull typical crap that's coming out.

Need MOAR SOLO QUESTS? ALRIGHT!

NEED MOAR ZONES?! OKAY!

I liked ESO because I started with some fun innovation. It hasn't been innovating much and this road to 2016 post is a huge downer for implementing anything cool or ground breaking. Creating spells? Nope. Full living and breathing Justice system? Nope.

There's so many games coming out in 2016 and 2017. I've enjoyed casually playing ESO. But I don't see it's longevity when it shys away from innovating into their own game rather than focusing on typical DLC.

NobleNerd

More and more Camelot Unchained is looking better and better. ESO has become a single player rpg that sometimes players actually talk and interact with each other.

tinythinker

- Yes, a toggle could have been added to flag yourself as PvP eligible as either a law-abiding enforcer or as a criminal.

- Yes, this would have allowed other non-flagged people to commit crimes -- for achievements, profits, and quests -- without having to PvP.

- No, apparently this was something either ZOS didn't think of or decided it wasn't worth the time to implement because of the back-end work needed for the system when the focus now is on adding DLC and new crown store items. There may also have been a concern that Cyrodiil's performance issues would spill over into the rest of the game because players fighting each other is something that either the game's code or servers can't handle.

Gidorick

wolfwoods wrote: »

Its just making me more sad that it will never happen,

You've pretty much just described my own personal ESO "Endgame".

Wollust

Does someone truly believe they would have been able to implement it without breaking something big time? Look what happens when they do small fixes. With the recent patch we lost health points in Cyrodiil and they can't fix it till the next patch. That's how ZoS work standards are. Putting in something as huge as the PvP part of the justice system, something that would change the dynamics of PvE zones and would mean loads of changes to combat system, do you guys really think ZoS would have been able to do that right? I really doubt that.

While I'd love to see something PvP related for once (IC is simply an unwanted child), I'd be happy if they could start fixing things without breaking other things in the process.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm happy that there won't be any PvP outside of cyrodiil. PvP is such a toxic waste anyway and it's not needed outside of cyrodiil, keep it there and leave the rest of the game fun without griefers around every corner.

On the funny side of things, your reply is the most toxic, and biggest attempt at griefing in the whole thread, and you are a care bear. Are you sure you are right about which group is the waste?

TheLaw

Unbelievable... Just unbelievable. ZOS keeps no promises, delivers no relevant content and has literally no idea what PVP is.

Strychnox

They keep wanting to come across as a company who listens to players demands, in the end they don't give a care

AngryNord

ralonasan wrote: »

As I and others said in many threads before this was announced, the justice system died when the lead designer quit.

Just wait until something like this happens to content you've been looking forward to. Then you'll understand the significance of this announcement.

With this the game will fall ever further down the path of cash grab DLC with no depth that can be cleared in 12 hours.

RIP

Can I have your stuff, too?

Detector

PvP-Justice System - RIP =( Bad News(
But will be added in game new pvp-content (pvp mini games, arena)? Or all next DLC only for pve-players?

helediron

If justice system would need PvP, why then the base JS is not in Cyrodiil nor IC? I know the argument it's in lawless state, but that's just empty argument. Turn on JS there and just do the cops&thieves in Cyro. Or would this be actually same kind of failure as TV stones are now when just PvP players are doing it among themselves? Or actually not doing, when they would have to play the victims too.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Strychnox wrote: »

They keep wanting to come across as a company who listens to players demands, in the end they don't give a care

They listened to me, so they do listen.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

They learned after the disaster that was IC they cannot trust players to simply play the game. If given a chance everytime players will exploit cheat and grief other players. Their core audience is NOT pvp. Ive heard of noone who thinks the pvp in this game is balanced and good enough to make another DLC based on it. If you want to "gank newbs" IC or Cyrodill is for you.

Enodoc

wayfarerx wrote: »

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Neoauspex wrote: »

They could've pulled this off. Dying doesn't matter in this game anyway, who cares if you are level 10 and you do a quest that makes you a criminal and then you get jacked up and, oh no, teleported to a nearby wayshrine with your crime gone. The enforcer earns a bounty that cost the criminal nothing but 30 seconds of their life, and who knows maybe the two parties chat about the experience and form a friendship or a rivalry or a lifelong quest for revenge. That **** is fun. Maybe a PvE player branches out and tries PvP when they otherwise would have completed the single player content and moved onto a new game. Back in the old MUD days there was a good chance your character would get deleted when you died, it's not like you have to worry about that. It's such a big world, it'd be so fun to add the competitive aspect and all the roleplaying possibilities of real player interaction to all of it.

I used to think they could pull this off, but IC changed my mind. ZOS tried to mix PvP & PvE and pretty much everyone hated it. PvE players want a faction-locked place to farm in peace, PvP players hate all the OP mobs everywhere. The only people it really worked for were the gankers. While that's good for them, I don't think turning the entire overworld map into another NB gank fest would be a good idea (and this is coming from someone with a v16 stamblade gank character).

Yeah you're probably right there. Justice PvP would have caused too much conflict between players, but not the sort of conflicts they were looking for.

victorhrpereira

I wouldn't be so bothered if they had mentioned anything about pvp arenas or improvements for the imperial city districts, but they didn't. So I guess pvper's have nothing to look forward this year.
I do like pve and pvp, but pve questing and gear grinding is getting very boring already. I would like more sandbox elements in ESO, but the only place I can find it is in cyrodiil when the lag allows me to.

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

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wolfwoods wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I cut down the quote to save space, but I agree with pretty much everything you said. I think many of the ideas you suggested were part of the initial leaked/teased concepts. I think initially they were going to have specific safe zones (other than outlaw refuges) for people specifically taking part in this type of content, but I guess we'll never know now. A damn shame...

Yeah, sorry if I repeated ideas that had been stated. I didn't really follow much of the chatter about it back in the day.

And yeah, it is a damn shame. Could have been a huge aspect of the game that would have set it apart, but oh well now.

I love your ideas @wolfwoods, the idea of a players bounty needing to get to "pvp" status is brilliant! It's not that it can't be done, ZOS just doesn't think it would be worth the effort.

Yeah, that's the way we thought it would work. If your bounty reached the Fugitive level (the point at which Guards will kill you on sight), that would be when the Enforcers would be able to kill you too. You wouldn't be killed by an Enforcer just for stealing a potato

The biggest issue that I remember discussing is player level imbalance; a Lvl 5 Outlaw against a Lvl 40 Enforcer, or a Lvl 40 Outlaw against a Lvl 5 Enforcer. In Cyrodiil's PvP, this is taken care of by battle-levelling, but there's no battle-levelling in zones where Justice is active.

ralonasan wrote: »

As I and others said in many threads before this was announced, the justice system died when the lead designer quit.

@ralonasan When did Mandi quit? She was here in November telling us all about Justice System updates. I would have thought her leaving would have been news around the forums.

victorhrpereira wrote: »

I wouldn't be so bothered if they had mentioned anything about pvp arenas or improvements for the imperial city districts, but they didn't. So I guess pvper's have nothing to look forward this year.

@victorhrpereira Those things are happening some time, we just don't know when. There's still the possibility they will be in for the Q3 or Q4 updates.

Messy1

tinythinker wrote: »

In case anyone was still hoping for that. It is officially dead.

You're right the issue is officially dead. Unofficially, we can still talk about it and players can still clamor that it be added.

Syntse

Think this decision is bit of lessons learned from IC. IC was supposed to have quite similar setup where one could rob stones from another (one could claim bounty of criminal). How success was that? That in mind how many would actually then participate into the JS. Most likely only a handful of people. Much effort into making something and only few would enjoy.

Adding that the JS part 2 would have been PvP addition, how many actual PvP players would come out from cyro to attend this? Login to the game and sit in some town waiting to see someone with bounty on their head... "damn none today, maybe tomorrow". Of course there would be rush at the start to try out the new system but it would die quickly and people would return to cyrodiil. Again reminding how the robber concept worked out in IC.

Think it was wise choice to scrap that and direct the resources to do something that most likely majority of the player base would enjoy.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Enodoc wrote: »

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victorhrpereira wrote: »

I wouldn't be so bothered if they had mentioned anything about pvp arenas or improvements for the imperial city districts, but they didn't. So I guess pvper's have nothing to look forward this year.

@victorhrpereira Those things are happening some time, we just don't know when. There's still the possibility they will be in for the Q3 or Q4 updates.

Just like the pvp part of the justice system was coming we just didnt know when. Or are these different for some reason?

Tandor

Autolycus wrote: »

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Tandor wrote: »

Excellent news, there was never any justification for introducing PvP into the open world as part of a PvE system. If the community's reaction to IC has taught ZOS anything, it is surely that PvP and PvE content don't mix well in the same zone.

I think you're right, provided it was ever intended to be a pvp/pve hybrid like IC. My understanding is that it would be purely pvp, though it would occur in the existing pve zones. Seems to me that there are a variety of options for implementation. Likely the reason it was scrapped was due to a desire to focus on other content or crown store junk.

It wouldn't have been purely PvP, because it was intended to apply PvP penalties to PvE crimes. It was the introduction of open world PvP masquerading as a Justice System and would have created a lot of issues for those who wanted the PvE content of both the Justice System and, in due course, the Thieves Guild which will very likely be tied in some way to the Justice System, but who didn't want to be forced into a choice between having to do PvP or opting out of a significant PvE content.

NeillMcAttack

This was to be an immersion based PvE update over a PvP update IMO.
I mean, to all those self proclaimed strict PvE'rs, this is an MMO. I fail to see how this would not have expanded on the immersion of the story based areas.
Why does it scare people so much to have another player attack them, it's a GAME!!?
I also find it amusing that many of those against it were the same people that didn't agree that the notorious, 4,000,000 gold bounty outlaw known as 'found', should be able to complete the main quest because he was a filthy murderous were-beast.
Like, where do people get off deciding that the game is better off with less depth and less unique and exciting mechanics!?
It really speaks to an individuals insecurity (and i don't want to sound offensive but it's true) when they would rather zero challenge, unkillable, immersion-less NPC's can put an end to a crime spree but to allow another challenging, kill-able, player to do so, literally scares them. But when it comes to someone else's chosen playstyle they are the first to judge.

Anyway, it's a massive shame this is being scrapped. It would have been immensely exciting and unique, especially for those that appreciate ZOS's efforts, and enjoy all aspects of this game.

TheBonesXXX

RIP ESO 2016.

Lefty is gone, its a matter of time before Sypher, KR, Kris, Feng and the rest of Legend pulls the plug.

and when they pull the plug, the rest of the PvP community will go.

That IS damaging enough to where they will never produce content.

Not Elder Scrolls Online: Paywall Edition

Enodoc

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

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Enodoc wrote: »

victorhrpereira wrote: »

I wouldn't be so bothered if they had mentioned anything about pvp arenas or improvements for the imperial city districts, but they didn't. So I guess pvper's have nothing to look forward this year.

@victorhrpereira Those things are happening some time, we just don't know when. There's still the possibility they will be in for the Q3 or Q4 updates.

Just like the pvp part of the justice system was coming we just didnt know when. Or are these different for some reason?

@vyndral13preub18_ESO That's different, because Justice PvP was only ever an "if", not a "when"; discussion of it was always accompanied with a caveat of "only if we can make it work".