"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System."
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JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, I knew this would be scrapped.
It would be a nightmare. Especially when it came to fighting in the middle of a city with killable NPC's around.
Arenas and Duels are being worked on though so there's that.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
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Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!5 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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That was just one example. What about:- gathering provisioning mats or motifs
- leveling up legerdemain for the lock forcing passive
- enforcers camping the entrance to outlaws refuges
- outlaws camping the entrance to enforcer towers
- the current issues with accidentally healing criminals and becoming a criminal yourself
All this stuff would seriously affect new players coming into the game, and not in a good way. I just don't think there's a way to make this work without an entirely separate PvP server.- You can get mats and motives without stealing if you open containers in dungeons or some overland questing areas
- You can steal stuff without getting a bouty
- Add unkillable npc guards infront of the entrances or make them save zones (similar to ic)
- Just stop spamming heals within towns. Also they could add an option to not heal criminals (similar to not hitting innocents)
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Aimora✭✭✭✭✭So pleased this has been scrapped - at least I can still do a bit of looting without the concern of being griefed by a PvPer - it's bad enough avoiding the guards lolAimora Gilidhren - 50 Hybrid Sorcerer
Aimae Gilihdril - 50Templar Healer
Aimsae Astasia - 50 Templar Tank
Aimellie Halfpenny - 50 Nightblade spinning DPS
Sofae Ethelbur - 50 Dragonknight Tank
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Seliene Harbingerin 50 - DK in training
Aims For Equanimity 10 - Magicka DK
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Elysium - Guild 2nd in Command
Auridon Trading Company - Joint GMLooking for a friendly, progress focused guild check us out at thecircleofthephoenix.gamerlaunch.com/Check me out at Anook anook.com/aimora7 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭
Im done too. I was leaning toward leaving the game due to the potential overreach of PvP (I know they would try to make it opt in only. But I was skeptical of how they would make it work).Sallington wrote: »Obviously people don't want any more gameplay depth, and would rather they spend resources on churning out half-baked DLC and cash store mounts.
I'm done.
But now I'm done worrying.
9 -
RAGUNAnoOne✭✭✭✭✭
✭It would have done more harm than good and would hurt new players the most and lead to grieving, I am glad this game isn't going into forced PvP optional can get bad enough.PS4 NA
Argonian Master Race
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
Support Tail armor and tail ribbons: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/236333/concept-tail-armor-for-beast-races#latest
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wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »- You can get mats and motives without stealing if you open containers in dungeons or some overland questing areas
- You can steal stuff without getting a bouty
- Add unkillable npc guards infront of the entrances or make them save zones (similar to ic)
- Just stop spamming heals within towns. Also they could add an option to not heal criminals (similar to not hitting innocents)
Okay, so you're a new player. Either "full safe mode" is enabled by default and they wonder why there's all these containers around they cannot search, or they have to get zerged down a few times before rage-quitting or digging through the settings menu to find the right toggles. Then there's mucking with the toggles every time I do want to do justice activities, and the inevitable nightblades stealthed in the Vulkhel Guard warehouse. How does stealth even work between players in the same alliance?
All in all I think arenas are a much better solution for small-scale PvP. This is a TES game and, as such, should have a very strong PvE component that doesn't surprise people with sudden PvP in towns and such.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion7 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
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There's also one in Stonefalls where you have to break into a house in Ebonheart to confront the guy who's been sabotaging the city. Even though the authorities are explicitly telling you to go in there and confront him, it's still a crime that will get you a bounty if someone sees you picking the lock.
There is a quest in Rivenspire where you have to break into a beggars house to get information (part of the MQ for that zone), there is a quest in Marbruk where you have to break into houses and steak back or place items for the investigation, there are 2 or 3 other ones. Sure they could easily fix those quests and make the doors not locked on those houses (which they should have done anyway).
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
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Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
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Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp7 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sallington wrote: »Obviously people don't want any more gameplay depth, and would rather they spend resources on churning out half-baked DLC and cash store mounts.
I'm done.
Can I have your stuff? :P1 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also, I'm assuming that you have to do a lot of crime in the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, which again would have logistically been a nightmare.
Now just them invincible guards to worry about.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!2 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!
I hope they work on making guards killable at least.
@Gidorick the idea of the 2nd part of justice system was for open world PvP which would have allowed murdering other players. It would have allowed end game players such as VR14 or VR16 players to grief and troll lower level players by killing them over and over again. That's that problem.2 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
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That was just one example. What about:- gathering provisioning mats or motifs
- leveling up legerdemain for the lock forcing passive
- enforcers camping the entrance to outlaws refuges
- outlaws camping the entrance to enforcer towers
- the current issues with accidentally healing criminals and becoming a criminal yourself
All this stuff would seriously affect new players coming into the game, and not in a good way. I just don't think there's a way to make this work without an entirely separate PvP server.
You can gather mats in other ways and motifs are not part of any quest.... and there are other non-stealing receptacles these can be found in.
You don't HAVE to level Legerdemain... this would be part of that "choice" players would have to make.
The camping issue has been discussed in other threads... I'm not going into that here. Those that would want to opt out of this system (what we are discussing here) wouldn't have to worry about these issues.
So.... players need to show some restraint while in towns? oh divines forbid!!! Maybe then players would learn not to spam in town, which would be a GOOD thing, IMO.Edited by Gidorick on January 12, 2016 6:17PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!3 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »
@Gidorick the idea of the 2nd part of justice system was for open world PvP which would have allowed murdering other players. It would have allowed end game players such as VR14 or VR16 players to grief and troll lower level players by killing them over and over again. That's that problem.
No, it wasn't @Forestd16b14_ESO it was for a PVP enforcer system. Players would have to go "sign up" to be an enforcer and those enforcers would only be able to attack criminals. It was at best "selective PVP in PVE zones" it was in not "open world PVP".What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!5 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
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You can gather mats in other ways and motifs are not part of any quest.... and there are other non-stealing receptacles these can be found in.
You don't HAVE to level Legerdemain... this would be part of that "choice" players would have to make.
The camping issue has been discussed in other threads... I'm not going into those that would want to opt out of this system (what we are discussing here) wouldn't have to worry about these issues.
So.... players need to show some restraint while in towns? oh divines forbid!!! Maybe then players would learn not to spam in town, which would be a GOOD thing, IMO.
Don't get me wrong, there's a part of me that wanted to see the whole enforcer thing happen, but let's be serious. ZOS has not historically been the best at balancing the PvE / PvP dynamic. If they went through with this we would likely be looking at months where every major city in the game turned into an IC-like gank fests while the bugs and toggles were all worked out.
I hope the PvP team spends time fixing Cyrodiil, adding objectives to IC and getting the arenas / dueling implemented.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion7 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Elder Scrolls has essentially been a series of story lines in which your character ascends towards godhood. Only a god or another player should be able to stop your crime spree. Unkillable guards policing player activity is the worst immersion buster I have ever seen in a game.
Why don't the leaders of each alliance send just one of their local constabulary from a backwater village to Cold Harbour?
All they had to do was set a bounty level at which you flag for PvP. Don't want to PvP? Pay your bounty off before it gets to that level.
Could make is slightly more complicated by setting levels of crime that flag you. Kill 10 innocent NPCs, flagged. Rob High King Emeric? Flagged. Steal potatoes over and over again from the local merchant, everyone looks the other way.
You saved all of Tamriel after all.Edited by Wreuntzylla on January 12, 2016 6:27PM5 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah. By itself, I wasn't really opposed to the idea of PvP portion of the justice system. But I was always dubious as to if they could do it properly.
Don't get me wrong, there's a part of me that wanted to see the whole enforcer thing happen, but let's be serious. ZOS has not historically been the best at balancing the PvE / PvP dynamic. If they went through with this we would likely be looking at months where every major city in the game turned into an IC-like gank fests while the bugs and toggles were all worked out.
I hope the PvP team spends time fixing Cyrodiil, adding objectives to IC and getting the arenas / dueling implemented.
Slapping PvP on it and calling it a day wouldn't cover it. How would they account for potential lag? What about toggles? If the toggles don't work? What about general player balance (I.e a VR16 vs. lvl 13)? By and large no PvP has yet to come up a system that even adequetly accounts for player initiated griefing, trolling and exploiting.
And that's not even accounting for the PvEers that don't even want to SEE PvP in 'their' zone much less be potentially dragged into it or hindered by it.Edited by Zorrashi on January 12, 2016 6:36PM4 -
Crimsonwolf666✭✭✭✭So happy. While I like the idea, too many ppl would have exploited this to the extreme. One reason why we can't have more immersion is because people, like cats, are jerks. Besides, I have a feeling that putting an "opt out" or "don't steal" button to reduce the uh ooohhhs of ppl accidently clicking E and stealing somethang would probably introduce new and horribly irreversible bugs into the game. It might be too "complex" to write up the code to toggle that on or off.
As for the quests t he do cause you to commit crimes, one in da von watch asks you to steal wine and then again in Ebonheart city. Also in Ebonheart you have to pick the lock on the door to expose the traitor helping Dagger fall Covenant and then kill him. I vaguely remember helping a khajiit in Ali kir desert steal back some skooma or what not. I know there are more quests that had my character commit a crime, those were a few off the top of my head.0 -
Aimora✭✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Congratulations Carebears,
PvP community gets screwed again.
I love being a carebear
Not for messing up the Pvper players game play just because the name is so cute Aimora Gilidhren - 50 Hybrid Sorcerer
Aimae Gilihdril - 50Templar Healer
Aimsae Astasia - 50 Templar Tank
Aimellie Halfpenny - 50 Nightblade spinning DPS
Sofae Ethelbur - 50 Dragonknight Tank
Sha'Mash 50 - Nightblade - Former Empress
Saelenor Wilihfren 50 - Templar No. 3
Seliene Harbingerin 50 - DK in training
Aims For Equanimity 10 - Magicka DK
Circle of the Phoenix - Guild Mistress
Elysium - Guild 2nd in Command
Auridon Trading Company - Joint GMLooking for a friendly, progress focused guild check us out at thecircleofthephoenix.gamerlaunch.com/Check me out at Anook anook.com/aimora4 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How would they account for potential lag?
Cyrodiil lag in Elden Root.
Do. Not. Want.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion7 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭In terms of the overall design direction of the game, it's very sad that they are canning the PvP part of the Justice System. All of the low hanging fruit complaints about the system that everyone gets so scared about (e.g. camping lowbies when they loot desks) are easily avoidable with smart design. Think about what such a system would represent: a constantly evolving and actually meaningful player experience, where your actions in the world matter. Making player actions matter in the shared space of an MMO world is an area where the game genre needs to innovate. With this system, as well as Spellcrafting and Housing, among others, ESO had a chance to start straddling the line between theme park and sandbox in a unique way, and also get an edge over upcoming MMOs that are building more sandboxy worlds and bringing the challenge back to MMO gaming.
To me, it seems like spellcrafting and PvP justice system are the remnants of pre-B2P design direction that prioritized player-driven, dynamic (as opposed to grindy, easily parsable, and monetized) gameplay. As such, it sounds like finishing them would be more work than they would stand to generate in revenue because, in the game's current economic model, 'short-term' transactions are valued more than 'long-term' subscriptions. On one hand, if they implemented these two big, combat-focused systems into the base game it would not generate any significant new revenue like DLCs do. On the other hand, if they somehow monetized them, it would likely condemn the game to pay-to-win status. Seems like a lose-lose for ZOS with either direction, though at least that would mean they still seem to be still avoiding the P2W abyss.Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden9 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭
Well it was either that or screwing over a more-than-sizable amount of PvEers.TheBonesXXX wrote: »Congratulations Carebears,
PvP community gets screwed again.
But relax, you still have you PvP zone4 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes it would have been. They could have added a toggle to "not steal items" like the toggle to not kill NPC. I have never EVER used this term before, but this decision was a move catering to the Care Bears.... and I would actually fit into that group.
Except, they were never going to implement that, either. Because someone at ZoS felt having all of those potentially stolen items between you and a vendor "added to the challenge." They even went so far as to compare it to players asking to be exempted from hostile mobs.
If the PvP system ever went into effect, you can bet that there wouldn't have been an item lockout for theft.4 -
Zaldan✭✭✭✭✭At present there are 3 levels to a player bounty, ZO$ could've increased that to maybe 10(random number) and only at level 10 would a player become a target of player enforcers, no chance of anyone accidentally becoming involved in PVP.
Being killed by a player enforcer would reduce bounty level to 9 making them again immune to player enforcers preventing the alleged griefing that the justice system would've filled cities with.
Instead we get yet another feature abandoned and the game made simpler
3 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »To me, it seems like spellcrafting and PvP justice system are the remnants of pre-B2P design direction that prioritized player-driven, dynamic (as opposed to grindy, easily parsable, and monetized) gameplay. As such, it sounds like finishing them would be more work than they would stand to generate in revenue because, in the game's current economic model, 'short-term' transactions are valued more than 'long-term' subscriptions. On one hand, if they implemented these two big, combat-focused systems into the base game it would not generate any significant new revenue like DLCs do. On the other hand, if they somehow monetized them, it would likely condemn the game to pay-to-win status. Seems like a lose-lose for ZOS with either direction, though at least that would mean they still seem to be still avoiding the P2W abyss.
I think there's a lot of truth to this. What's the ROI for ZOS on implementing these things, without invoking the dreaded pay-to-win?@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion1 -
Preyfar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭On one hand, it sucks to see it go, but I could see it being brutally abused at the same time. That said, I'm hoping the Thieves Guild update adds more content to the system and can expand the current system a bit more.
I'd love to see town guards have an AI/pathing similar to the Daedric roamers in IC, so you can't just watch the guard patterns alone to make stealing easy.Edited by Preyfar on January 12, 2016 6:39PM2 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭At present there are 3 levels to a player bounty, ZO$ could've increased that to maybe 10(random number) and only at level 10 would a player become a target of player enforcers, no chance of anyone accidentally becoming involved in PVP.
Being killed by a player enforcer would reduce bounty level to 9 making them again immune to player enforcers preventing the alleged griefing that the justice system would've filled cities with.
Instead we get yet another feature abandoned and the game made simpler
Yep. Soooo many ways to implement it without the "griefing" people worry about.Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden1 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Devastating news. Guess I can delete my roleplay Ordinator now I had in the works. Yay, another free char slot
I dunno man... I think this news has greater implications than "no PVP in justice system". It means the justice system will remain unfinished. Whoever has hoped for a more complex gaming environment from ESO can just hang up their hopes now. ESO won't be getting deeper... ZOS is focused on DLC now and not game enhancements.
Jup, exactly this. The Justice System was ESO's attempt to add something dynamic, sandboxy to an otherwise pretty cut-and-dry themepark experience. With that gone, what is supposed to replace that niche? There is absolutely nothing on the horizon in terms of game mechanics. All we get is DLC content à la Orsinium, which I like a lot, but is not enough to keep this game thriving.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.7 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've been saying for months this would never make it in game. No surprise here.I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4501 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well it was either that or screwing over a more-than-sizable amount of PvEers.
But relax, you still have you PvP zone
..I.. never thought I would dislike PvErs so much, but you guys get a kick out of it.Edited by TheBonesXXX on January 12, 2016 6:44PM0
