"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System."

ThatNeonZebraAgain · January 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

I dunno man... I think this news has greater implications than "no PVP in justice system". It means the justice system will remain unfinished. Whoever has hoped for a more complex gaming environment from ESO can just hang up their hopes now. ESO won't be getting deeper... ZOS is focused on DLC now and not game enhancements.

Yep, this is the real news about the game's future.

wayfarerx · January 2016

Faulgor wrote: »

Jup, exactly this. The Justice System was ESO's attempt to add something dynamic, sandboxy to an otherwise pretty cut-and-dry themepark experience. With that gone, what is supposed to replace that niche? There is absolutely nothing on the horizon in terms of game mechanics. All we get is DLC content à la Orsinium, which I like a lot, but is not enough to keep this game thriving.

I'm desperately hoping that there's gameplay improvements coming to the justice system with the next two DLCs, I agree that the current system feels unfinished.

If the thieves guild is just more stealth-and-pick-locks then I will be greatly disappointed.

Sallington · January 2016

This is the aftermath of the B2P/F2P switch. Instead of adding more depth to the core game, they need to rely on DLC and the cash store.

"A game with meaningful and consistent content — one packed with hundreds of hours of gameplay that can be experienced right away and one that will be supported with premium customer support. Charging a flat monthly (or subscription) fee means that we will offer players the game we set out to make, and the one that fans want to play. Going with any other model meant that we would have to make sacrifices and changes we weren't willing to make."
-Matt Firor

WillhelmBlack · January 2016

That sounds like Lefty Lucy's door closing.

Zorrashi · January 2016

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Zorrashi wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Congratulations Carebears,

PvP community gets screwed again.

Well it was either that or screwing over a more-than-sizable amount of PvEers.
But relax, you still have you PvP zone

..I.. never thought I would dislike PvErs so much, but you guys get a kick out of it.

I really don't. Perhaps in the future you will get a truly opt in PvP zone as they broaden Tamriel but I have had little faith in the PvP portion of the justice system since the beginning.

I will advocate for a lag free Cyrodil, improved imperial city with PvP objectives and all the while I will disagree with anyone who wants a PvE Cyrodil. But a PvP crime system? In PvE land? Only if they can do it right.

But they can barely handle their own PvP zone (lag, class balance, IC griefing) so I don't want it expanding into PvE land so soon. Especially since I don't think they can adequetly prepare and or respond to the guaranteed griefing, exploiting, harassment and trolling that will undoubtedly result from bringing in the two vastly different play styles.

Tallowby · January 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

Exactly, that was the whole concept. Basically an opt-in World PvP cops n' robbers. It would have been amazing.

So, what happens when one of the guild traders moves while I'm trying to shop and I accidentally steal a fish or something? Seems like a mis-click shouldn't result in automatic ZERG DEATH.

Don't steal toggle similar to don't kill toggle.

Easy solutions guys. Quit reinforcing their laziness so readily.

Gidorick wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

Exactly, that was the whole concept. Basically an opt-in World PvP cops n' robbers. It would have been amazing.

So, what happens when one of the guild traders moves while I'm trying to shop and I accidentally steal a fish or something? Seems like a mis-click shouldn't result in automatic ZERG DEATH.

What if they added a "do not steal" toggle similar to the "do not kill" toggle @wayfarerx ?

That was just one example. What about:
gathering provisioning mats or motifs

leveling up legerdemain for the lock forcing passive

enforcers camping the entrance to outlaws refuges

outlaws camping the entrance to enforcer towers

the current issues with accidentally healing criminals and becoming a criminal yourself

All this stuff would seriously affect new players coming into the game, and not in a good way. I just don't think there's a way to make this work without an entirely separate PvP server.

No legal system in the Hollow City/Cold Harbor and provisioning mats & motifs can be found while questing
Open Treasure Chests or take your chance illegally
There are entrances to outlaw refuges in multiple locations in most zones not all will be covered
Don't get this comment
The aforementioned toggle to not steal like harming innocents

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

I hope they work on making guards killable at least.

@Gidorick the idea of the 2nd part of justice system was for open world PvP which would have allowed murdering other players. It would have allowed end game players such as VR14 or VR16 players to grief and troll lower level players by killing them over and over again. That's that problem.

Especially since if you don't have enough to pay the bounty and you get killed you don't loose your bounty this feature will lead to endless wayshrine camping and ganking of those low levels just for LOLs.

Gidorick · January 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

Exactly, that was the whole concept. Basically an opt-in World PvP cops n' robbers. It would have been amazing.

So, what happens when one of the guild traders moves while I'm trying to shop and I accidentally steal a fish or something? Seems like a mis-click shouldn't result in automatic ZERG DEATH.

Don't steal toggle similar to don't kill toggle.

Easy solutions guys. Quit reinforcing their laziness so readily.

Gidorick wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

Exactly, that was the whole concept. Basically an opt-in World PvP cops n' robbers. It would have been amazing.

So, what happens when one of the guild traders moves while I'm trying to shop and I accidentally steal a fish or something? Seems like a mis-click shouldn't result in automatic ZERG DEATH.

What if they added a "do not steal" toggle similar to the "do not kill" toggle @wayfarerx ?

That was just one example. What about:
gathering provisioning mats or motifs

leveling up legerdemain for the lock forcing passive

enforcers camping the entrance to outlaws refuges

outlaws camping the entrance to enforcer towers

the current issues with accidentally healing criminals and becoming a criminal yourself

All this stuff would seriously affect new players coming into the game, and not in a good way. I just don't think there's a way to make this work without an entirely separate PvP server.

You can gather mats in other ways and motifs are not part of any quest.... and there are other non-stealing receptacles these can be found in.

You don't HAVE to level Legerdemain... this would be part of that "choice" players would have to make.

The camping issue has been discussed in other threads... I'm not going into those that would want to opt out of this system (what we are discussing here) wouldn't have to worry about these issues.

So.... players need to show some restraint while in towns? oh divines forbid!!! Maybe then players would learn not to spam in town, which would be a GOOD thing, IMO.

Don't get me wrong, there's a part of me that wanted to see the whole enforcer thing happen, but let's be serious. ZOS has not historically been the best at balancing the PvE / PvP dynamic. If they went through with this we would likely be looking at months where every major city in the game turned into an IC-like gank fests while the bugs and toggles were all worked out.

I hope the PvP team spends time fixing Cyrodiil, adding objectives to IC and getting the arenas / dueling implemented.

I think the outright "No, we're not doing this" is the knife twist. If the message were "we're going to fix cyrodiil before we get back to Justice System PVP" that would be one thing, but that's not what they said. They said it's just not coming. They've given up on it.

There are just too many things that are not being added to ESO because ZOS isn't up to the challenge of adding them in an effective way, and the list just keeps growing.

sadownik · January 2016

I cant understand how otherwise intelligent people here (yes even those i dont agree with) miss main aspect of that announcement. Z. makes a show to tell what will be added to game not knowing if it will be possible. I think im done, i really need that 100 gb on my hd.

JD2013 · January 2016

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

Tallowby wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

Exactly, that was the whole concept. Basically an opt-in World PvP cops n' robbers. It would have been amazing.

So, what happens when one of the guild traders moves while I'm trying to shop and I accidentally steal a fish or something? Seems like a mis-click shouldn't result in automatic ZERG DEATH.

Don't steal toggle similar to don't kill toggle.

Easy solutions guys. Quit reinforcing their laziness so readily.

Gidorick wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

Exactly, that was the whole concept. Basically an opt-in World PvP cops n' robbers. It would have been amazing.

So, what happens when one of the guild traders moves while I'm trying to shop and I accidentally steal a fish or something? Seems like a mis-click shouldn't result in automatic ZERG DEATH.

What if they added a "do not steal" toggle similar to the "do not kill" toggle @wayfarerx ?

That was just one example. What about:
gathering provisioning mats or motifs

leveling up legerdemain for the lock forcing passive

enforcers camping the entrance to outlaws refuges

outlaws camping the entrance to enforcer towers

the current issues with accidentally healing criminals and becoming a criminal yourself

All this stuff would seriously affect new players coming into the game, and not in a good way. I just don't think there's a way to make this work without an entirely separate PvP server.

No legal system in the Hollow City/Cold Harbor and provisioning mats & motifs can be found while questing

Open Treasure Chests or take your chance illegally

There are entrances to outlaw refuges in multiple locations in most zones not all will be covered

Don't get this comment

The aforementioned toggle to not steal like harming innocents

1. Agreed but still I suspect a nerf is in the works...
2. Bad argument unless they boost high level lock exp
3. Only 2 in each location 30 total not that hard to cover them all
4. Not sure about this one I mean I doubt they will get rid of NPC guards in those places
5. Don't heal spam in towns

Sallington · January 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

JD2013 · January 2016

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

Well if you don't want to wait, I suggest finding another MMO that better suits your PVP needs? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tamanous · January 2016

Lack of vision and conforming to the masses waters down yet another mmo. Let's be truthful to ourselves though ... we all knew the game already suffered from this and only clung to hope that things would change.

Some indie developer will have the balls to make a truly immersive mmorpg game world but we'll of course have to live with graphics from 10 years ago. Can't say I even care anymore.

I can't level another toon in ESO because of the painful 1-50 experience of linear progression, chasing lore books and skyshards and ZOS refusing to open up more scaling zones. Vet zones turn out to still be easy mode as I solo most everything other than group dungeons. I can't wait for more Orsinium scaling zones in order to fix these issues (which wouldn't as I'd still be forced to chase down skyshards and lorebooks).

I am not seeing the open and immersive world I though could have been created and these changes do not appear to change this enough at this point to keep me here. A million $$$ would at least keep my sub up. lol

Gidorick · January 2016

Tamanous wrote: »

Lack of vision and conforming to the masses waters down yet another mmo. Let's be truthful to ourselves though ... we all knew the game already suffered from this and only clung to hope that things would change.

Some indie developer will have the balls to make a truly immersive mmorpg game world but we'll of course have to live with graphics from 10 years ago. Can't say I even care anymore.

I can't level another toon in ESO because of the painful 1-50 experience of linear progression, chasing lore books and skyshards and ZOS refusing to open up more scaling zones. Vet zones turn out to still be easy mode as I solo most everything other than group dungeons. I can't wait for more Orsinium scaling zones in order to fix these issues (which wouldn't as I'd still be forced to chase down skyshards and lorebooks).

I am not seeing the open and immersive world I though could have been created and these changes do not appear to change this enough at this point to keep me here. A million $$$ would at least keep my sub up. lol

well said @Tamanous , well said.

I have used this meme before... while I don't feel THIS passionately about ESO, the following pretty much sums up my feelings about ESO:

Sallington · January 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

Well if you don't want to wait, I suggest finding another MMO that better suits your PVP needs? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If there was one, a whole lot of people would be there. Sadly, this is the best the market can offer right now.

Ackwalan · January 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

Exactly, that was the whole concept. Basically an opt-in World PvP cops n' robbers. It would have been amazing.

So, what happens when one of the guild traders moves while I'm trying to shop and I accidentally steal a fish or something? Seems like a mis-click shouldn't result in automatic ZERG DEATH.

Turn off 'auto loot'. Turn on 'do not attack npc'.

TheBull · January 2016

No sub for me. No sub in the foreseeable future judging by this road map.

JD2013 · January 2016

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

Well if you don't want to wait, I suggest finding another MMO that better suits your PVP needs? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If there was one, a whole lot of people would be there. Sadly, this is the best the market can offer right now.

Actually you may know, is Camelot Unchained still happening? What's the progress on it? I stopped following it a while ago. Must read up on it again.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · January 2016

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

Well if you don't want to wait, I suggest finding another MMO that better suits your PVP needs? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If there was one, a whole lot of people would be there. Sadly, this is the best the market can offer right now.

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

Well if you don't want to wait, I suggest finding another MMO that better suits your PVP needs? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If there was one, a whole lot of people would be there. Sadly, this is the best the market can offer right now.

Actually you may know, is Camelot Unchained still happening? What's the progress on it? I stopped following it a while ago. Must read up on it again.

Camelot Unchained is progressing very, very well. It is going into Beta this year.

TheBonesXXX · January 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Why in the bucked tooth chuck would I believe that we're going to get arenas when they continually blow smoke up our (PvPers) rear posteriors?

TheBull · January 2016

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

Well if you don't want to wait, I suggest finding another MMO that better suits your PVP needs? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If there was one, a whole lot of people would be there. Sadly, this is the best the market can offer right now.

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

Well if you don't want to wait, I suggest finding another MMO that better suits your PVP needs? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If there was one, a whole lot of people would be there. Sadly, this is the best the market can offer right now.

Actually you may know, is Camelot Unchained still happening? What's the progress on it? I stopped following it a while ago. Must read up on it again.

Camelot Unchained is progressing very, very well. It is going into Beta this year.

In the meantime give Black Desert a look. We are all waiting on CU.

wayfarerx · January 2016

Ackwalan wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

Exactly, that was the whole concept. Basically an opt-in World PvP cops n' robbers. It would have been amazing.

So, what happens when one of the guild traders moves while I'm trying to shop and I accidentally steal a fish or something? Seems like a mis-click shouldn't result in automatic ZERG DEATH.

Turn off 'auto loot'. Turn on 'do not attack npc'.

Currently does not prevent you from stealing things that are just sitting around, not in containers. This is just one of many issues that would have to be addressed.

Justice PvP would have been cool, but I don't think they can pull it off. Maybe someday we'll get a zone with this sort of gameplay enabled. At least that would be something ZOS can sell.

JD2013 · January 2016

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

Well if you don't want to wait, I suggest finding another MMO that better suits your PVP needs? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If there was one, a whole lot of people would be there. Sadly, this is the best the market can offer right now.

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Arenas and Duels are coming calm your jimmies PVP players. I'm willing to bet that they did a turnaround on Duels because they scrapped the enforcer system.

It could have been fun, but it could also have been a massive logistical nightmare insofar as implementing it in cities with lots of killable NPC's around. There would also have been lots and lots and lots of opportunity for griefing, ganking and the such.

I look forward to Arenas/Battlegrounds and duels so maybe the PVP community will have something new to do. I also enjoy PVP myself, but let's face it - PVP in this game is anything but hardcore. And I don't think that it ever will be.

Lol

Coming "soon".

Well if you don't want to wait, I suggest finding another MMO that better suits your PVP needs? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If there was one, a whole lot of people would be there. Sadly, this is the best the market can offer right now.

Actually you may know, is Camelot Unchained still happening? What's the progress on it? I stopped following it a while ago. Must read up on it again.

Camelot Unchained is progressing very, very well. It is going into Beta this year.

I'm very happy to hear that. I'll definitely be trying that game out for sure.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

No big surprise.

Would have been a nightmare to implement without it affecting people who didn't want to participate.

It totally wouldn't have been... Don't want to participate? Don't commit crimes!

I hope they work on making guards killable at least.

I'm in 100% agreement with @Gidorick here. If they made the guards killable it would be completely fair, and a lot more believable. I never understood how all the town guard was tougher than Molag Bal, much less a dungeon boss or even a bandit chief. I realize for the sake of resources it would be hard for guards to blow a whistle and call in their friends... but that's what the pvp side of things would do for players. If people can escape other people in Cyrodiil, I don't see why you can't just run away in the Justice system. I'm hopeful they change their mind about this, because I love the idea of playing Cops or Robbers in this game.

gw2only1b14_ESO · January 2016

yea sucks what can we say

Kwivur · January 2016

Divinius wrote: »

The way the justice system is designed, committing crimes is almost a necessity (and actually is a necessity to complete some quests). Presumably, the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood DLCs will involve committing a LOT of crimes.

Some people just really hate PvP. Those people shouldn't have to limit their gold-making options, avoid certain quests, and be locked out of entire DLCs because what should be a completed unrelated "justice system" got stupidly incorporated into PvP.

This was by far the smartest decision they could have made.

Then play a game that doesn't have PvP..

Divinius · January 2016

There really was no good way of implementing it. Many people have already pointed out why "not committing any crime if you don't want to PvP" would be a completely non-viable option.

I then saw people that say, "They could have just made it so you are only flagged as attackable by PvP enforcers if your bounty got too high!"

That still wouldn't really work. There's always going to be a large number of players that want to be able to commit petty crimes (intentionally or accidentally) but don't want to deal with getting instantly zerg ganked by the enforcers. If they made the bounty "PvP threshold" level too low, and it could be easily reached, that would obviously be bad.

If they made the threshold sufficiently high such that you could only hit it if you were obviously knowingly doing it, the only people that would let their bounties get that high would be the people that really wanted to fight the PvP enforcers, which would be an incredibly small portion of the PvE playerbase (i.e. only the other PvP players that wanted to play the "bad guys"), and the PvP enforcers would get bored. Don't beleive me?

It's ultimately the same thing as PvE players wanting their own version of Cyrodiil, or TV stone farmers that don't want to get ganked by other players in IC. Everyone is opposed to those things because the vast majority of PvP in this game is based on the strong PvP players preying on the weaker PvE ones. By giving the PvE players that don't really want to PvP a way to accomplish those things without the threat of other players, there would be far fewer players participating in PvP.

tl;dr
Not giving players a way to "opt out" of justice system PvP (other than "don't steal") is non-viable. And implementing the enforcer system in a way that allows players to easily choose whether they can be attacked by PvP players or not would be equally as bad as giving PvE players a PvP -free version of Cryodiil. It would kill the vast majority of PvP.

Also:

Kwivur wrote: »

Then play a game that doesn't have PvP.

I could just as easily tell you to go play CoD if all you care about is PvP.

But that would be an equally worthless suggestion.

CromulentForumID · January 2016

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Congratulations Carebears,

PvP community gets screwed again.

As a PVPer, I would think you would want to test your skills against other PVPers, people who build their characters for that and practice their skills against other players.

The justice system would not seem to represent that player base at all. It is a lot more likely you would be fighting PVE-specced players who never PVP'd, forgot to manage their settings, or otherwise stumbled into your path.

That sounds more like someone who is looking to grief or otherwise ruin another player's day instead of engaging in challenging PVP content.

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt and not generalize, but then I read your signature. You seem to be proud of ruining the experience of others.

I would be willing to bet real money that a lot of the "PVP Community" has better things to do than to kill players who offer no challenge.

The only way that you could say you are actually looking for a challenge and not easy pickings is if you think large quantities of PVPers will flock to the PVE zones, start to steal things, then run around in the open world looking for challenges. That seems to be a really inefficient way of getting the open world PVP you can get right now.

I don't think you need to look much farther than IC and all of the ladder and entrance camping that goes on to see just some of the headaches adding PVP to the justice system would bring about.

Neoauspex · January 2016

They could've pulled this off. Dying doesn't matter in this game anyway, who cares if you are level 10 and you do a quest that makes you a criminal and then you get jacked up and, oh no, teleported to a nearby wayshrine with your crime gone. The enforcer earns a bounty that cost the criminal nothing but 30 seconds of their life, and who knows maybe the two parties chat about the experience and form a friendship or a rivalry or a lifelong quest for revenge. That **** is fun. Maybe a PvE player branches out and tries PvP when they otherwise would have completed the single player content and moved onto a new game. Back in the old MUD days there was a good chance your character would get deleted when you died, it's not like you have to worry about that. It's such a big world, it'd be so fun to add the competitive aspect and all the roleplaying possibilities of real player interaction to all of it.