Ebonheart Pact needs some Love

Dyride

I just learned I have Type 2 Pvpness. Oh Lordy.

Rylana

Dyride wrote: »

I just learned I have Type 2 Pvpness. Oh Lordy.

At least it hasnt progressed to Type 1. Then youll have Obi-Wan screaming YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE, IT WAS SAID YOU WOULD DESTROY THE SITH NOT JOIN THEM

Humphie

I am seeing Haxus and Unruh trying though. There is hope!

Jules

tinythinker wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Everyone can say that EP should just help themselves, that EP should develop more guilds or just teach each other. Which of course is all well and good, I don't disagree with the sentiment. Haxus as a guild is in the process of making steps toward seeing that come to fruition.

Really? How so? Anyway I wish you (them) luck.

We have made steps to work with guilds already established on this faction.

warpower9

yes tinythinker that's it. It is a work in progress actually but we have been trying. I think its hard to weed out the people who want to get better vs the casual. Some may even find it offensive to a degree but the more "hardcore pvper" is looking for a different home IMO. That is what I would like to create , but I don't really need all that drama that I normally find in guilds. So I am not sure what the outcome will be in the end. And if any are interested drop me a line if you so choose. There is lots to do and tru help is welcomed, one man will not win a war.

Seraph702

Rylana that was the most beautifully orchestrated description of EP pvp that i have ever seen..... must fully agree and ofc i myself am guilty of some of if not alot of what was said there.... but none of us are perfect.

Rylana

Seraph702 wrote: »

Rylana that was the most beautifully orchestrated description of EP pvp that i have ever seen..... must fully agree and ofc i myself am guilty of some of if not alot of what was said there.... but none of us are perfect.

Most of us have had our ups and downs in that list. I know full well i could put GoS is type 1 or 2 depending on whos leading, how much BS i wanted to deal with, whether recruitment was open, what the plan for the day was, etc.

I like to think we were a Type 2 mostly, but listening to our TS youd think immediately were were a Type 1, lolz

Pchela

I am Lord Veleth, which will bring thee out of the land of Arrius Lumbermill, out of the house of bondage and being farmed...

Bfish22090

Not everyone wants to play in AS lagfest

Seraph702

Rylana wrote: »

Seraph702 wrote: »

Rylana that was the most beautifully orchestrated description of EP pvp that i have ever seen..... must fully agree and ofc i myself am guilty of some of if not alot of what was said there.... but none of us are perfect.

Most of us have had our ups and downs in that list. I know full well i could put GoS is type 1 or 2 depending on whos leading, how much BS i wanted to deal with, whether recruitment was open, what the plan for the day was, etc.

I like to think we were a Type 2 mostly, but listening to our TS youd think immediately were were a Type 1, lolz

so true lol come in my ts youd think we were type 1 and i try to be type 2 and help somewhat but i have been leaning towards the type 1 i dont really want to help anyone attitude for months until recently due to the pathetic show of our faction in AZ lately..... though i will state.... i will never leave mah arrius LM undefended for those heathen chuck norris scrubs to farm my faction at again......

kevlarto_ESO

Rylana wrote: »

Here is an illustration of the problem with EP. Keep bias and indignation out of it, some may apply to you, some may not, but I will carefully explain exactly why EP is sorely lacking. I will keep it relatively simple.


There are four general types of mid to large PvP groups in cyrodiil. (there are more, but for the sake of this illustration, i will focus on the four most common, and also ignore solo/duel smallscale as in the larger picture they dont contribute much to the overall play of the map past maybe taking a minor objective here and there)

Type 1 are the elite/closed 12-24 man organized guilds. (they will always claim to run less than they usually have, for ego's sake) For better or for worse, these will include the best players in the faction, gravitated together by common interest or other less noble motivation (dream team mentality has applied here in the past). All too often these guilds/groups are self absorbed, self righteous, quick to place blame on the other types of groups, the most resistant to working with others outside of their comfort zone, and historically the most abrasive and non-cooperative. Some are worse than others, and at the end of the day most of them are only concerned with self-enrichment or personal gain for the guild they represent, not the faction as a whole. They do not help others learn, they do nothing to increase the effectiveness of the faction, if anything they mostly thrive by poaching the best members from Type 2 and 3 groups and concentrating all of that talent into one exclusive group that does nothing but benefit that group. You thankfully see less of these groups today as they inevitably collapse due to egos or loss of interest with the game in general.

Type 2 are the elite/open 12-24 man organized guilds. These guilds are nearly identical to type 1's except for they tend to be much more open and inclusive. This is the type of guild EP sorely lacks. Good, organized, with veteran members willing to take in newcomers and actually help them improve. These are normally the workhorses of any faction, where the up and comers get their best training and experience before they either become veteran members of the guild, or end up being snatched away by a Type 1 group. Most of the long term EP guilds of yesterday were of this type, too many have long since left.

Type 3 are the Casual/Open Zerg groups. These guilds and groups generally run on massive scale and often PvP on specific raid days. Often you will find them with a type 2 group at their center, surrounded by another raid group. Not much is taught here, disinformation is rampant, and very little is learned beyond "do what the crown tells you." Many of the people in the group/zerg wont be in TS besides the core, effectiveness overall is subject to sheer number volume and quantity over quality mindset. Their leader may be very good at herding the cats, and by that virtue they may very well accomplish a lot, but only by virtue of that leader have massive resources to work with. These groups tend to cause the largest problems for lag and game performance, and represent well over half of EP currently.

Type 4 are the PvE/pug/disorganized zone chat 111 groups. Some guy gets in zone chat, tells people to post a number or word, puts together a mass of total strangers not in voice comms and yolo. Fun sometimes, but completely disorganized and suffering from severe lack of coordination/focus. Cannon fodder to a type 1 or 2 group from the other side. Usually seen crossing Alessia Bridge and dying on Alessia front door 10 times an hour.



Now I will go into the problem with EP, having established the four types of groups.

Type 1's think highly of themselves, sneer at the type 2's thinking they are just workhorses that think they are good but are actually bad. Type 3's are zergs getting in the way, and type 4s are just trollbait.

Type 2's hate the type 1's because they never help, try to rally the type 3's and have mostly given up trying to get the type 4's to do anything useful. Type 2's are also an endangered species.

Type 3's think 1 and 2 are the same thing, cheerfully go about their business, and would probably invite the type 4's as long as they at least listen in teamspeak. Spam that steel tornado baby, thats it.

Type 4's think everyone is just taking life too seriously, but will be the first to scream in zone for help if a resource flips, and point out that a keep is lost the moment the outer is at 90 percent. They pray for the aid of the Type 1 raid which will never come, think the Type 2 raid was the one that they were calling for, and are pleased by the Type 3 bailing them out so they can go back to shooting arrows from the walls.


Elites that dont help, Elites that try to help, Zergs that dont get much accomplished but make up the bulk of the faction, and randoms that dont have a clue

Thats EP.

I agree 100% I think it can apply to all alliances in game, to many number ones, problem is the game supports that play style by rewarding the individual more than the faction, this is suppose to be faction based pvp.

Everyone could benefit from more number two's, but overall good summary.

Dutchessx

Rylana wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Wait woldn't GoS leaving make EP stronger? Hear me out they normally play on Campaigns that are not the "Main" Campaign. If there members continue to play solo or with other groups EP would actually be stronger.

To the OP: The post retirement fallout is still resonating internally, but I have a feeling GoS isnt as dead as people think its going to be, even now several are trying to reorganize internally since we told them they are free to run with the roster, even I might give a night or two of leadership just because of nothing better to do. Will we go AZ? Doubtful, but you never know.[/quote]



YaY!!! I love GoS I don't want to play somewhere else...

LazyLewis

An honest suggestion from me would be for Haxus to step back from the EP leaderboards and maybe let another guild prosper with Emp. I have nothing against Haxus having Emp. You guys earn it Jules and also own it like a boss. BUT after Alacrity and DiE stopped getting emp on AD that's when alot of AD guilds prospered because before Alac and DiE they didn't even have a shot at Emp so they didn't even try.

FENGRUSH

EP lacks the visionary leadership that General Lord FENGRUSH has always provided to the covenant - something to strive for.. a reason to make themselves better in hopes they could one day before worth enough to serve His Lordship. No matter how bad or insignificant you are as a player on the battlefield, fighting under the covenant you know you have the Lord's blessing upon you when you brace the AD zergs and the EP ball groups.

EPs problem is everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other with variations of characters named ragnar and rolo - only to realize these false idols will always pale in comparison to FENGRUSH, a truly indomitable force they must endure every night.

Pchela

LazyLewis wrote: »

An honest suggestion from me would be for Haxus to step back from the EP leaderboards and maybe let another guild prosper with Emp. I have nothing against Haxus having Emp. You guys earn it Jules and also own it like a boss. BUT after Alacrity and DiE stopped getting emp on AD that's when alot of AD guilds prospered because before Alac and DiE they didn't even have a shot at Emp so they didn't even try.

Agreed and i have suggested this recently.

MountainHound

When DC won b2b2b campaigns there was a feel good buzz about, different guilds held emp and it kept everyone fresh / active etc. What Lazy Lewis said about stepping back from the leader board sounds good to allow another person / guild to get active and fight for it.

Also, I'd recommend getting ALL orgnised EP guilds from all campaigns together for one campaign to give a win and morale boost and possibly don't stick to "small" size groups yourself. Take a couple of pugs to train them as If no-one is willing to pick up the newer inexperienced players they'll get bored and leave. Also, all you guys are experienced, cut in half groups and feel the gaps with pugs. Lots of ways to get them included. When I lead groups I pick up from Guild + zone on most occasions as there is always lots of LFG.

Hence the reason CN is so big, we try our best to get everyone involved and in an organized group.

Having Lord @FENGRUSH present yelling from the roof tops also helps greatly.

Junkogen

Ebonheart racial passives suck the most out of all the factions overall in the games current meta of maximum damage. ZOS made EP suck. So when people start characters they gravitate towards the races that they think will produce the most damage. Those races are in DC and AD.

Bfish22090

FENGRUSH wrote: »

EP lacks the visionary leadership that General Lord FENGRUSH has always provided to the covenant - something to strive for.. a reason to make themselves better in hopes they could one day before worth enough to serve His Lordship. No matter how bad or insignificant you are as a player on the battlefield, fighting under the covenant you know you have the Lord's blessing upon you when you brace the AD zergs and the EP ball groups.

EPs problem is everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other with variations of characters named ragnar and rolo - only to realize these false idols will always pale in comparison to FENGRUSH, a truly indomitable force they must endure every night.

What is wrong with you

Hoser450r

I would never re-roll another faction. AD for life! For the Queen! lol....... With that said I can get why people re-roll for the sake of getting more competitive PvP. It just seems that too many people do it at the same time and just leaves a curtain faction struggling.

Minno

FENGRUSH wrote: »

EP lacks the visionary leadership that General Lord FENGRUSH has always provided to the covenant - something to strive for.. a reason to make themselves better in hopes they could one day before worth enough to serve His Lordship. No matter how bad or insignificant you are as a player on the battlefield, fighting under the covenant you know you have the Lord's blessing upon you when you brace the AD zergs and the EP ball groups.

EPs problem is everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other with variations of characters named ragnar and rolo - only to realize these false idols will always pale in comparison to FENGRUSH, a truly indomitable force they must endure every night.

Also we can't forget @Publius_Scipio and his beautiful battle-poetry to commemorate DC's pain and wins.

Crown

frozywozy wrote: »

We need people from competitive guilds to get on Teamspeak once every few weeks and discuss strategies, abilities, gear, cps with more casual...

I've been thinking about doing an hour or so stream to answer questions about group builds, comps, strategies, and general NB stuff. Similar to what the current streamers do for the solo players when they're not being sensationalistic.

frozywozy

Xiphyla wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

PosternHouse wrote: »

Adonikam wrote: »

EP were always the dominating faction @Jules. EP won Wabbajack when I was playing with Vokundein and Condemned. To prove a point Vokundein and Condemned went to Auriel's Bow (which was suppose to be the baddest campaign) during prime time, dethroned their emperor, and crowned an EP emperor just because we couldn't be stopped. Shortly after Condemned left the game I played in IR (around June/July 2014) with Crystalized and EP still dominated. EP has never been as weak as it is now.

Gonna call BS. AD had the highest density of organized guilds and pug herders at launch. They zerged all the competition of Auriel's Bow. They also were not present in large force on Wabbajack until the end, during which they outgained and out AP'd everyone there. Once Alacrity migrated from Hopesfire and No Mercy from the blue resurgence on Auriel's Bow 2, the Condemned and all of red got wrecked on a daily basis. IR even tried to switch servers, which still didn't work out for them.

Red's prime came when Alacrity and No Mercy quit, and DiE rerolled. It was all incidental, but that's more or less the gist of things.

You're mixing two different concepts.

1) Guild VS Guild
2) Overall faction coordination and organisation to win a campaign

You're right, during Wabbajack, AD and DC had very competitive guilds. I would not say they were better than Condemned though. Condemned was way up there and there is a reason why Fixate got Praetorian rank in less than 2months.

But organisation wise, EP really deserved the victories they earned in Wabbajack.

Regarding IR switching to Chillrend, we didn't switch there to run away, we switched to Chillrend to chase DC groups running away from Thornblade blaming it on the lag. Get your facts straight.

Overall faction coordination + organisation , i would say condemned maybe they are good in Those etc , but if you talk about official Guild vs Guild 8v8 or 12vs12 fights , everything differs . All right , let's get back to topic .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6chAisOPIs

Dutchessx

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. Training is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

Cormore

The way i see it is that EP is facing what AD has been facing for the past 5 months. Most leaders have been burnt out teaching people how to play and leading at the same time. Its just now that more guilds are showing up in PvP now for AD b/c of pve guilds have nothing to do now. People are going to have to step up and make a guild or start teaching and leading. They just have to make sure they dont turn it into a job and still in enjoy the game even with bugs in it.

Pchela

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

It is difficult. I have joined up with PUGs lately and offered suggestions to them on how to siege, where to siege, how to handle breaches and most of the time it is shrugged off (and I'll do as they ask, I'm not here to take over a group and be an arrogant ***) and they get mowed over or I get told that they're going to do it their way even if they're going to get stomped every single time. And you know what? Sometimes you have to let them fail over and over again, and hope they learn from mistakes. That's how we learn. There are a lot of all around egos in EP who don't want help, don't think they need it, and egos of people who believe they don't want to be arsed to help. The only thing we as a faction can do is keep trying and hope that people are open to it. Every little victory, even if it's to get a PUG to put down 12 siege instead of 3, is a step in the right direction.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

Seraph702

Varen- Guild Relations? we have those on EP? please post pics of these guild relations the next time you catch one since they are like big foot ^.^ i am probably the absolute worst about it though.... lol the pugs are so painful to work with cuzz dead on breach

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

I should not be awake at this ungodly hour of the day after a overnight shift but there is loud construction going on outside hence I cannot sleep.

Suffice to say all this boo-hooing and negative nancyism going on about 'the game dying' and 'players quitting en masse' just reinforces my stance on never joining any guilds in ESO whatsoever. I don't work for my money to put up with that kind of crap, and I sure as hell don't sub to the game to put up with it either. I understand the game will have its hills and valleys and things go in cycles. Not long ago it was DC that was "dying" and before that it was AD. People would get alot less stressed out if they just played the game for what it offers and enjoy what they can do, feel comfortable with their accomplishments, and if you feel burnout take a break and play something else for a while. I tend to go in cycles of 1-2 months nonstop pvping and 1-2 months of break. As much as I'd like to commit all the time, I just can't do that both because of RL work and just my own personal temperment. This is hardly the deathknell of the game, but that being said, there are alot of changes that should have happened weeks ago that ZOS insist they're 'working on' for the next 'big patch'.

I honestly feel alot of what's been going on with PVP in general is not so much because of ZoS 'botching the game', but just egos running rampant. Regardless if its a individual or a group, some people have such a poisonous mentality that the game exists to serve them and them alone. I've been playing since early access, and I've run out of fingers counting how many times I'll hang with a guild/pvp group thinking 'hey, these guys are cool' only for someone or several people to cross a line with me that I will not suffer to be crossed. The most recent incident led me to decide that from then until the end of time that I would never run with a pvp guild or group in any capacity, relegating myself to being strictly solo.

I'm seeing too many very good and considerate players dropping out of the game and too many of these insipid, egomaniacal players persisting. Those are the players that will run this game into the ground, the ones who behave as though everyone else not themselves is beneath them and insist on denigrating everyone, regardless of whether its a friend or guildie.

I disagree wholly that a good pvper should change their playstyle to 'what works'. That mentality is what created the current horribly disfigured meta we have to put up with now. A good pvper should be someone who will call out information in chat, instead of being overly paranoid about 'omg spies!" A good pvper should take the time to rez everyone and anyone, because you never knew if that lvl 33 can turn the tide of a siege. A good pvper should be a GOOD PLAYER, someone who knows what they like and how to play their respective class, and isn't a complete utter irredemable excuse for humanity like some people I can think of.

Good pvpers are far and few in between, and I've seen way too many pvp guilds/groups fall to pieces because of an individual or a handful of. I think the most recent group I was with utterly collapsed because their leader is a callous insensitive little skunk who scammed out his own guildmates out of materials and alienated most of his faithful. I had several of those guildmates on my buddies list and I ended up having to remove them because they hadn't been on in over 2 months. That alone told me how bad things were. Woe betide whoever trusts someone who demands they 'pool mats' then that guild leader will turn around and put those items on open market to profit from.

Unless its a day that I am off, I can't commit more than 3-4 hrs to pvping a night, but that time I do have to pvp I want to play as I see fit. I want to siege keeps, run scrolls, kill the enemy because thats what PVPing should be, not listening to someone insult everyone in the raid in TS when the group wipes to a superior group, or someone so inebriated you cant make heads or tails of what they're saying, and CERTAINLY not watching a scroll get picked up then run all the way to *** Timbuktu instead of being docked in a timely manner.

I will print this page out and eat the paper if 'the next big game' becomes the greatest contribution to online gaming in the past 30 years, but there's been a lot of 'next big games' that have launched since ESO did almost 2 years ago and except for maybe ARR, none of them have come close, so people holding their breaths instead of making do with what they got are just going to end up punishing themselves in the long run.

Alomar

LazyLewis wrote: »

An honest suggestion from me would be for Haxus to step back from the EP leaderboards and maybe let another guild prosper with Emp. I have nothing against Haxus having Emp. You guys earn it Jules and also own it like a boss. BUT after Alacrity and DiE stopped getting emp on AD that's when alot of AD guilds prospered because before Alac and DiE they didn't even have a shot at Emp so they didn't even try.

Honestly nothing about the progress EP should be making has to do with emp. EP is not strong enough to get emp or hold it often enough for it to matter or be of any value. EP got emp 3 times in the last 30 day campaign and 1 time so far in this campaign. We are double teamed for the majority of primetime as it is, the other factions don't need more incentive.

Example: For 3.5 hours two nights ago we had to run back and forth from BRK to Chal fighting 40-60 DC at Chal and 50+ AD at BRK during which there was no engagement between those two factions. We even had this to deal with (which we won btw):

manny254 wrote: »

Numbers are clearly not the issue.



If anything AD needs some love. I frankly also don't buy the lack of organization argument.
Looking at the AD Leader Boards 6 play solo or small scale, and numbers 1-3 got their ap this way.
On EP the entire top 10 play in an organized group.
I am not fully familiar with the DC players, but I am fairly certain most are group players.

No one said numbers were the issue. Also anyone can post a random screenshot from one particular time and claim that represents the total population over a period of time, it is quite dumb to do though. I've seen DC be pop locked first in AZ and AD just as often if not more in the past few months. I've also seen the AD pop lock drop quicker than any other faction over the past few months as soon as they have a couple hours of difficult pvp where it isn't an EP double-team (the pop doesn't actually drop it just goes to a locked AD pop Had and a med-high AD pop TF).

frozywozy

Rylana wrote: »

Here is an illustration of the problem with EP. Keep bias and indignation out of it, some may apply to you, some may not, but I will carefully explain exactly why EP is sorely lacking. I will keep it relatively simple.


There are four general types of mid to large PvP groups in cyrodiil. (there are more, but for the sake of this illustration, i will focus on the four most common, and also ignore solo/duel smallscale as in the larger picture they dont contribute much to the overall play of the map past maybe taking a minor objective here and there)

Type 1 are the elite/closed 12-24 man organized guilds. (they will always claim to run less than they usually have, for ego's sake) For better or for worse, these will include the best players in the faction, gravitated together by common interest or other less noble motivation (dream team mentality has applied here in the past). All too often these guilds/groups are self absorbed, self righteous, quick to place blame on the other types of groups, the most resistant to working with others outside of their comfort zone, and historically the most abrasive and non-cooperative. Some are worse than others, and at the end of the day most of them are only concerned with self-enrichment or personal gain for the guild they represent, not the faction as a whole. They do not help others learn, they do nothing to increase the effectiveness of the faction, if anything they mostly thrive by poaching the best members from Type 2 and 3 groups and concentrating all of that talent into one exclusive group that does nothing but benefit that group. You thankfully see less of these groups today as they inevitably collapse due to egos or loss of interest with the game in general.

Type 2 are the elite/open 12-24 man organized guilds. These guilds are nearly identical to type 1's except for they tend to be much more open and inclusive. This is the type of guild EP sorely lacks. Good, organized, with veteran members willing to take in newcomers and actually help them improve. These are normally the workhorses of any faction, where the up and comers get their best training and experience before they either become veteran members of the guild, or end up being snatched away by a Type 1 group. Most of the long term EP guilds of yesterday were of this type, too many have long since left.

Type 3 are the Casual/Open Zerg groups. These guilds and groups generally run on massive scale and often PvP on specific raid days. Often you will find them with a type 2 group at their center, surrounded by another raid group. Not much is taught here, disinformation is rampant, and very little is learned beyond "do what the crown tells you." Many of the people in the group/zerg wont be in TS besides the core, effectiveness overall is subject to sheer number volume and quantity over quality mindset. Their leader may be very good at herding the cats, and by that virtue they may very well accomplish a lot, but only by virtue of that leader have massive resources to work with. These groups tend to cause the largest problems for lag and game performance, and represent well over half of EP currently.

Type 4 are the PvE/pug/disorganized zone chat 111 groups. Some guy gets in zone chat, tells people to post a number or word, puts together a mass of total strangers not in voice comms and yolo. Fun sometimes, but completely disorganized and suffering from severe lack of coordination/focus. Cannon fodder to a type 1 or 2 group from the other side. Usually seen crossing Alessia Bridge and dying on Alessia front door 10 times an hour.



Now I will go into the problem with EP, having established the four types of groups.

Type 1's think highly of themselves, sneer at the type 2's thinking they are just workhorses that think they are good but are actually bad. Type 3's are zergs getting in the way, and type 4s are just trollbait.

Type 2's hate the type 1's because they never help, try to rally the type 3's and have mostly given up trying to get the type 4's to do anything useful. Type 2's are also an endangered species.

Type 3's think 1 and 2 are the same thing, cheerfully go about their business, and would probably invite the type 4's as long as they at least listen in teamspeak. Spam that steel tornado baby, thats it.

Type 4's think everyone is just taking life too seriously, but will be the first to scream in zone for help if a resource flips, and point out that a keep is lost the moment the outer is at 90 percent. They pray for the aid of the Type 1 raid which will never come, think the Type 2 raid was the one that they were calling for, and are pleased by the Type 3 bailing them out so they can go back to shooting arrows from the walls.


Elites that dont help, Elites that try to help, Zergs that dont get much accomplished but make up the bulk of the faction, and randoms that dont have a clue

Thats EP.

I must say what you wrote is pretty impressive and representative of the different group mentalities rolling out there. I would not change anything except maybe the part where you mention that Type 3 is the one creating the most performance problems.

There are two different main causes of latency lag (ms) :

1) Too many players on the screen
2) Too many players spamming aoes close to each other

Group Type 3 brings the first type of lag while Group Type 1 brings the second type of lag. This being said, I think that the second type of lag is by far the worst of all. Especially if Type 1 runs a full 24men group and that the campaign is max pop for all 3 factions and there is another considerable fight happening on the map.

As much as the elite groups usually are focus on their own interests and performances, I think that EP is going in the right direction with knowledges being shared. After my last teamspeak meeting with all the guild leaders of EP, my main concern was the way the informations we bring is being received. Some group leaders still think we are trying to enforce them to play a certain playstyle when in reality we are only trying to give advices, general guidances and recommendations.

Said group leaders have to realize that as much as Zenimax promised us that we could play our character any way we want in the game, there will always be a certain way to optimize your character, this is inevitable.

We need to break this casual mentality and make them realize that if they want to be competitive, they're gonna have to use some key abilities on their bars for each class/spec. Those abilities will change alot depending of the amount of people they have in group and the specific composition of classes.

We also need to teach their leaders how to properly run their group. For example, they can't just say, we're pushing in in 3-2-1, and then we don't hear any more calls for the next 15 seconds until their group wipe. I believe that the only way to help the group leaders is by inviting them to run with more organized guilds for a couple hours so they can learn how to properly give directions and guide their group during a battle. Finally, we have to make sure they use battle coms and enforce them when it's time to get serious.

manny254

Pchela wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

Well what did you expect? (Not directed at you, but your associated guilds) From an outsiders perspective all Haxus/Nexus has shown on numerous occasions that they don't care about the map. The only 2 things they have shown to regularly care about is farming AP and crowning their own emp. Playing the primary objectives when it makes them efficient ap or effects getting emp so they can make more ap. I fairly certain someone said something like this on the forums before, and Meth essentially said yeah that is true.

edit: It just seems silly that the faction with the most high ranked players is complaining about a lack of leadership.