Ebonheart Pact needs some Love

_Chaos

Gotta agree with Mojican there.

@Pchela I do agree that it's not fair to be labelled as something merely because of the guild you're in. I feel for ya

Pchela

manny254 wrote: »

Pchela wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

Well what did you expect? (Not directed at you, but your associated guilds) From an outsiders perspective all Haxus/Nexus has shown on numerous occasions that they don't care about the map. The only 2 things they have shown to regularly care about is farming AP and crowning their own emp. Playing the primary objectives when it makes them efficient ap or effects getting emp so they can make more ap. I fairly certain someone said something like this on the forums before, and Meth essentially said yeah that is true.

Different members care about different things, I understand why we have the rep, but I don't think that completely shutting out someone who wants to help is right either.

Dutchessx

Pchela wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

It is difficult. I have joined up with PUGs lately and offered suggestions to them on how to siege, where to siege, how to handle breaches and most of the time it is shrugged off (and I'll do as they ask, I'm not here to take over a group and be an arrogant ***) and they get mowed over or I get told that they're going to do it their way even if they're going to get stomped every single time. And you know what? Sometimes you have to let them fail over and over again, and hope they learn from mistakes. That's how we learn. There are a lot of all around egos in EP who don't want help, don't think they need it, and egos of people who believe they don't want to be arsed to help. The only thing we as a faction can do is keep trying and hope that people are open to it. Every little victory, even if it's to get a PUG to put down 12 siege instead of 3, is a step in the right direction.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

I agree if I join up in another group I remain polite and I might offer suggestions politely to the person in charge. One of the groups which I was thinking about when I wrote this I am a member of that pve guild. It is difficult to see them get rolled over time and again or loose fights that I know they could have won.
I have felt for a long time that Guild relations in EP need improvement and I use to work a lot on Haderous towards that with limited success. I do believe guild relations on that campaign have improved a lot since the buff server days. I can not speak to how they are now since I no longer operate in a role where I communicate with other guilds regularly.

Jules

manny254 wrote: »

Pchela wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

From an outsiders perspective all Haxus/Nexus has shown on numerous occasions that they don't care about the map.

I never really played much with Nexus but the fact that people think this about Haxus is just silly. Ofc we care about earning AP but we also generally place having our home keeps at the top of the priority list. We make efforts to take and defend keeps constantly. Decent AP gain comes from this anyway.

manny254

Jules wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Pchela wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

From an outsiders perspective all Haxus/Nexus has shown on numerous occasions that they don't care about the map.

I never really played much with Nexus but the fact that people think this about Haxus is just silly. Ofc we care about earning AP but we also generally place having our home keeps at the top of the priority list. We make efforts to take and defend keeps constantly. Decent AP gain comes from this anyway.

Going to be 100% honest. To me this entire thread looks like this:

We need people to be competent for us so we can get more AP and hold our Emp longer. We are too good to add more people to our group.

OdinForge

Pchela wrote: »

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

Sometimes old family traditions die, when eventually at some point a new younger generation fails to adopt old methods.

The EP community today is nothing like it used to be in the past, not going to call out specific people or guilds. NA Haderus at the launch of 1.8, when a bunch of random EP guilds homed there. Zone chat became so toxic, players actively working against their own faction, working against guilds that have been there for some time.

Dutchess raised a good point here, you cannot help the unwilling. There are potential leaders all over EP, but they have been silenced by the reality that training top players takes a long time and a lot of effort, you're fighting against the resistance of both player and game performance and it's a burnout. The "top players" tend to also faction swap, some remain rooted though. But so many good players on my list I often see leveling alternative faction toons.

But even worse is the disconnect between player and game. I don't see the performance of PvP in this game providing the support it needs to a happy and healthy player-base. I would never join Azura (or another locked and laggy campaign) and subject myself to hours of miserable lag. I wish that I could play on the busiest server, and have fun but this isn't that game. The state of the game is so wretched, what motivation is there to even try anymore. The players are unhappy with performance and how little ZOS seems to care about PvP, nothing is going to change until ZOS steps up to reinvigorate PvP.

We lost our guilds to other games, because PvP in this game is just broken. Perhaps one of the reasons I still play this game, is that I've been able to avoid large amounts of lag and frustration by playing on smaller servers (subsequently with smaller groups). With Haderus being as laggy as its been recently, I've been finding myself logging out earlier and earlier, my back to a wall with no other options in sight.

Humphie

manny254 wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Pchela wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

From an outsiders perspective all Haxus/Nexus has shown on numerous occasions that they don't care about the map.

I never really played much with Nexus but the fact that people think this about Haxus is just silly. Ofc we care about earning AP but we also generally place having our home keeps at the top of the priority list. We make efforts to take and defend keeps constantly. Decent AP gain comes from this anyway.

Going to be 100% honest. To me this entire thread looks like this:

We need people to be competent for us so we can get more AP and hold our Emp longer. We are too good to add more people to our group.

I disagree. All I see lately in zone chat is haxus people trying to coordinate pugs and try to teach them. Same with Unruh and Frozn.
And of corse with succeeding in that we can get emp and hold it longer. This is not about AP.

WarrioroftheWind_ESO

manny254 wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Pchela wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

From an outsiders perspective all Haxus/Nexus has shown on numerous occasions that they don't care about the map.

I never really played much with Nexus but the fact that people think this about Haxus is just silly. Ofc we care about earning AP but we also generally place having our home keeps at the top of the priority list. We make efforts to take and defend keeps constantly. Decent AP gain comes from this anyway.

Going to be 100% honest. To me this entire thread looks like this:

We need people to be competent for us so we can get more AP and hold our Emp longer. We are too good to add more people to our group.

Hit enough nails on the head to build a Noah's Ark that's for sure.

Whatever a guilds reputation is though, I don't hold with the belief that they should 'step aside' or 'leave the server' just because other people want a shot at emp. You get emp by being the best, and I've seen more than a few exceptional players claw their way to the top because they are better, and have the determination and are willing to support their faction. Last cycle I remember one such player being openly insulted in chat because he didn't 'step aside' why the hell should he? Players have no business coveting emp unless they're good enough to earn it the hard way. You want emp really really badly go buy one of those plastic turtle-shaped sandboxes from Wal-Mars, draw a map of cyrodiil in it, make keep models out of red playdough, and pretend you just capped the ring. Even if a player is a grade A-ever-burning sinkhole in Russia, if they're at the top they should stay there unless they either take a long break from playing for whatever reason or until someone even better passes them.

Having 'elite players' bow out isn't going to change anything. Players mentalities have to change. The mentality of "oh I don't work for the faction I work for me". No. You are a X player, you play in X faction, you will play for X faction because that's the point of pvping in a 3-way war.

Manoekin

I don't see Haxus not caring about the map.They can't be everywhere at once. When I try to hit BRK or Arrius behind the front lines they almost always show up to defend. My only contention is bridge farming. How many times AD has lost Roe because the entire EP faction is at the bridge while Chalman is blue... I could not go help clear that out, but then you get bored and start sieging the keep. Both factions feel double teamed, but it's our own fault because we spend half the day between alessia/sej and forget the rest.

Ghostbane

Silence you filthy barbarians! Surrender your lumbermill!

Humphie

Ghostbane wrote: »

Silence you filthy barbarians! Surrender your lumbermill!

Arrius LM is life!

PosternHouse

The Alessia Bridge is a DC home keep.

manny254

Manoekin wrote: »

I don't see Haxus not caring about the map.They can't be everywhere at once. When I try to hit BRK or Arrius behind the front lines they almost always show up to defend. My only contention is bridge farming. How many times AD has lost Roe because the entire EP faction is at the bridge while Chalman is blue... I could not go help clear that out, but then you get bored and start sieging the keep. Both factions feel double teamed, but it's our own fault because we spend half the day between alessia/sej and forget the rest.

Just sharing my honest opinion. I am a biased prick, but hey the truth will set you free.

I am sure that Varen is being genuine, but I can not say I think others are.

Nightenhowl

I like playing Ep, one thing on my mind lets get sej so we can battle for the bridge.

Wing

Alomar wrote: »

LazyLewis wrote: »

An honest suggestion from me would be for Haxus to step back from the EP leaderboards and maybe let another guild prosper with Emp. I have nothing against Haxus having Emp. You guys earn it Jules and also own it like a boss. BUT after Alacrity and DiE stopped getting emp on AD that's when alot of AD guilds prospered because before Alac and DiE they didn't even have a shot at Emp so they didn't even try.

Honestly nothing about the progress EP should be making has to do with emp. EP is not strong enough to get emp or hold it often enough for it to matter or be of any value. EP got emp 3 times in the last 30 day campaign and 1 time so far in this campaign. We are double teamed for the majority of primetime as it is, the other factions don't need more incentive.

Example: For 3.5 hours two nights ago we had to run back and forth from BRK to Chal fighting 40-60 DC at Chal and 50+ AD at BRK during which there was no engagement between those two factions. We even had this to deal with (which we won btw):

manny254 wrote: »

Numbers are clearly not the issue.



If anything AD needs some love. I frankly also don't buy the lack of organization argument.
Looking at the AD Leader Boards 6 play solo or small scale, and numbers 1-3 got their ap this way.
On EP the entire top 10 play in an organized group.
I am not fully familiar with the DC players, but I am fairly certain most are group players.

No one said numbers were the issue. Also anyone can post a random screenshot from one particular time and claim that represents the total population over a period of time, it is quite dumb to do though. I've seen DC be pop locked first in AZ and AD just as often if not more in the past few months. I've also seen the AD pop lock drop quicker than any other faction over the past few months as soon as they have a couple hours of difficult pvp where it isn't an EP double-team (the pop doesn't actually drop it just goes to a locked AD pop Had and a med-high AD pop TF).

did you have emp at the time? no matter what factions it is differences always seem to be set aside when dethroning an emperor is on the line.

Jules

Manoekin wrote: »

I don't see Haxus not caring about the map.They can't be everywhere at once. When I try to hit BRK or Arrius behind the front lines they almost always show up to defend. My only contention is bridge farming. How many times AD has lost Roe because the entire EP faction is at the bridge while Chalman is blue... I could not go help clear that out, but then you get bored and start sieging the keep. Both factions feel double teamed, but it's our own fault because we spend half the day between alessia/sej and forget the rest.

Bolded for truth.

& thanks Mano. As someone who competes against us daily it's nice to see that you can recognize that we care about objectives like keeps and scrolls. Pretty much falling on deaf ears here.

Humphie wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Pchela wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

From an outsiders perspective all Haxus/Nexus has shown on numerous occasions that they don't care about the map.

I never really played much with Nexus but the fact that people think this about Haxus is just silly. Ofc we care about earning AP but we also generally place having our home keeps at the top of the priority list. We make efforts to take and defend keeps constantly. Decent AP gain comes from this anyway.

Going to be 100% honest. To me this entire thread looks like this:

We need people to be competent for us so we can get more AP and hold our Emp longer. We are too good to add more people to our group.

I disagree. All I see lately in zone chat is haxus people trying to coordinate pugs and try to teach them. Same with Unruh and Frozn.
And of corse with succeeding in that we can get emp and hold it longer. This is not about AP.

And thank you too Humpie. It's nice to have you and others recognize the efforts. Its been very useful to have you scouting and working with us as much as possible.

diskiukas

Top guilds rarely recruit.Somebody posted topic not too long ago about it. I've been playing since release and I try to PVP almost everyday( love it a lot more than PVE), however I am part of 2 great PVE guilds, but never been able to join top PVP guild on DC side( well Cry Havoc was PVP guild, but raids used o be only 2 times a week though, dead guild now btw). Instead of being arrogant all the time( I've been ridiculed by top guild members for posting, in the chat, info about enemy movements ) , make some effort.People leaving? Do some recruitment , replenish your numbers, maybe it will help your guild in the long run and it will never die. Or dont and come back here and complain.

kyle.wilson

I was part of House Sotha in BWB on the EP side. A bunch of us got tired of the zergfest that was going on. Pushing the AD and DC to the gates and farming them their. We started a guild that moves around and tries to maintain the competiveness of the campaign.
A few days ago Sotha finally disbanded after much guild infighting.
This was the largest EP guild in BWB. At its peak we held around 400-450 member.

My point is, if a guild kills a campaign, then the bored people can end up killing your guild

kyle.wilson

*there

kyle.wilson

diskiukas wrote: »

Top guilds rarely recruit.Somebody posted topic not too long ago about it. I've been playing since release and I try to PVP almost everyday( love it a lot more than PVE), however I am part of 2 great PVE guilds, but never been able to join top PVP guild on DC side( well Cry Havoc was PVP guild, but raids used o be only 2 times a week though, dead guild now btw). Instead of being arrogant all the time( I've been ridiculed by top guild members for posting, in the chat, info about enemy movements ) , make some effort.People leaving? Do some recruitment , replenish your numbers, maybe it will help your guild in the long run and it will never die. Or dont and come back here and complain.

most people in good guild consider spying to be dishonorable.
But, about the recruiting. Most of the best guilds only want the best players. And will not extend an invitation without the recommendation of a respected guild member.

LazyLewis

Nerf everything

Seraph702

Ghostbane wrote: »

Silence you filthy barbarians! Surrender your lumbermill!

Ghost... if you come near my LM i will kill you with the fire of 1 million meteors and inner fire synergies i swear it upon the almighty lusty argonian maid!

Rickter

DC has and is the smallest pop faction in the game. Jules, you just acknowledged our quality over quantity. thank you.

diskiukas

kyle.wilson wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

Top guilds rarely recruit.Somebody posted topic not too long ago about it. I've been playing since release and I try to PVP almost everyday( love it a lot more than PVE), however I am part of 2 great PVE guilds, but never been able to join top PVP guild on DC side( well Cry Havoc was PVP guild, but raids used o be only 2 times a week though, dead guild now btw). Instead of being arrogant all the time( I've been ridiculed by top guild members for posting, in the chat, info about enemy movements ) , make some effort.People leaving? Do some recruitment , replenish your numbers, maybe it will help your guild in the long run and it will never die. Or dont and come back here and complain.

most people in good guild consider spying to be dishonorable.
But, about the recruiting. Most of the best guilds only want the best players. And will not extend an invitation without the recommendation of a respected guild member.

Spying? Not sure what my post has to do with it.
You do not know how good someone is until you tried him out. There is always an option to kick someone if he is not up to standards.

Jura23

kyle.wilson wrote: »

diskiukas wrote: »

Top guilds rarely recruit.Somebody posted topic not too long ago about it. I've been playing since release and I try to PVP almost everyday( love it a lot more than PVE), however I am part of 2 great PVE guilds, but never been able to join top PVP guild on DC side( well Cry Havoc was PVP guild, but raids used o be only 2 times a week though, dead guild now btw). Instead of being arrogant all the time( I've been ridiculed by top guild members for posting, in the chat, info about enemy movements ) , make some effort.People leaving? Do some recruitment , replenish your numbers, maybe it will help your guild in the long run and it will never die. Or dont and come back here and complain.

most people in good guild consider spying to be dishonorable.
But, about the recruiting. Most of the best guilds only want the best players. And will not extend an invitation without the recommendation of a respected guild member.

how can one be bad or good at hitting steel tornado.

Elong

Humphie wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Pchela wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have been reading through this tread and I can't speak to or won't attempt to speak to majority of what I am reading. However in regards to the part that I have been reading about EP being pop-locked (yes I know the picture that was posted was of Azura's, which I consider to be an outlying statistic) and I maybe as mixed up as a football bat but at least when I have been on Haderous and I have seen pop-locked EP most of the time it is because there are a lot of people in the sewers. Majority of the time from my experience only - the groups in the sewers hardly ever come out to play in Cyrodiil itself. If I do see them not in the sewers it is rarely in any kind of organized group. Most of the time it is in zone LFG or I get sent tells asking how they can find a group or if they can join mine. So in my opinion to say that "Oh look this faction is OK because they are pop-locked" without taking into account that a percentage of what you see maybe in IC/Sewer runs and hardly ever in Cyrodiil itself is not reasonable. When these groups do come they are usually over ran by one of the other factions. I have played in some of these groups or picked up people out of zone when I had been running solo prior starting a group. I usually end up face planting my keyboard because it is so painful to watch. Some have said the more experienced PvP'er's should teach them... most of the time - when I have picked up people out of zone (which it has been awhile since I have done this I have to admit) I either get no response from them other than to see them leaving group, running off to some other part of the map, or asking me where I get off telling them how to play. There have been rare incidences of one or two that I felt made any progress at all or I invited to join my social/pve guild (where I do sometimes help with doing pvp)- where they soon just disappear and never join back up to pvp or anything else. I have also recommended a few to guilds where I know they will get to play pvp regularly if they choose to. I have trained people to play games before playing ESO and have tried in my social/pve guild it is not an easy task. I do not have any recommendations I am just pointing out the obvious.

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

From an outsiders perspective all Haxus/Nexus has shown on numerous occasions that they don't care about the map.

I never really played much with Nexus but the fact that people think this about Haxus is just silly. Ofc we care about earning AP but we also generally place having our home keeps at the top of the priority list. We make efforts to take and defend keeps constantly. Decent AP gain comes from this anyway.

Going to be 100% honest. To me this entire thread looks like this:

We need people to be competent for us so we can get more AP and hold our Emp longer. We are too good to add more people to our group.

I disagree. All I see lately in zone chat is haxus people trying to coordinate pugs and try to teach them. Same with Unruh and Frozn.
And of corse with succeeding in that we can get emp and hold it longer. This is not about AP.

Thankyou. We're trying. Some of us jump out of group or scout around other areas to help other groups defend keeps or give direction. We're trying to help our faction as best we can.

Jules

.

Dutchessx

[/quote]Sometimes old family traditions die, when eventually at some point a new younger generation fails to adopt old methods.

The EP community today is nothing like it used to be in the past, not going to call out specific people or guilds. NA Haderus at the launch of 1.8, when a bunch of random EP guilds homed there. Zone chat became so toxic, players actively working against their own faction, working against guilds that have been there for some time.

Dutchess raised a good point here, you cannot help the unwilling. There are potential leaders all over EP, but they have been silenced by the reality that training top players takes a long time and a lot of effort, you're fighting against the resistance of both player and game performance and it's a burnout. The "top players" tend to also faction swap, some remain rooted though. But so many good players on my list I often see leveling alternative faction toons.

But even worse is the disconnect between player and game. I don't see the performance of PvP in this game providing the support it needs to a happy and healthy player-base. I would never join Azura (or another locked and laggy campaign) and subject myself to hours of miserable lag. I wish that I could play on the busiest server, and have fun but this isn't that game. The state of the game is so wretched, what motivation is there to even try anymore. The players are unhappy with performance and how little ZOS seems to care about PvP, nothing is going to change until ZOS steps up to reinvigorate PvP.

We lost our guilds to other games, because PvP in this game is just broken. Perhaps one of the reasons I still play this game, is that I've been able to avoid large amounts of lag and frustration by playing on smaller servers (subsequently with smaller groups). With Haderus being as laggy as its been recently, I've been finding myself logging out earlier and earlier, my back to a wall with no other options in sight. [/quote]

In regards to training new people on how to effectively pvp...(I know @OdinForge understands this because he is doing this with his guild working on small scale). However, I am not sure if it is fully understood what all it takes and I am not an expert on the subject but here is my go at it. If you say look up your class online and give them a cookie cutter on what to do you are (in my opinion) doing the player an injustice. Each of us play a specific way may use similar gear etc. and maybe similar in many ways but we are all different in how we do things, what works for us, and the role we play in a group; no matter the size. You must have 1 person who knows that class and skills who can answer questions on how things work together and why. The "trainee" must be willing to learn or you are wasting your time. You have to ensure they know the basics. Then you have to put them in situations where they can learn without getting so discouraged they quit. Understand they are going to make mistakes no matter what level they start on and use it for a learning experience. Now if you multiple that times whatever number of people you want to train - that is a lot of time and potentially a lot of people. When you are training someone it takes away time from what you would normally be doing in the game. Not to mention the factors that OdinForge mentioned in his post.
Now if you are talking just training pugs - that is another story they have to figure this out on their own but without this initial step them finding a good synergy within their own groups will translate to how they work together in the field and eventually how they work together with other guilds and how they take objectives. A lot of things need to happen to improve players and people can only improve others to the level they are at. I think there are a lot of people just saying fix it yourselves without understanding all that it takes. Is it hopeless... No. Will it take time... yes. Do we have that time... I don't know. What I do know is that it will take more than just 1 or 2 people or 1 or 2 guilds. Not speaking about any particular guild because I don't know a lot of them. It is like a friend of mine once told me... How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Improving players is just that... it happens 1 person at a time.
PS. OdinForge... I remember those toxic zone discussions on Had... there were many times I just closed the window so I didn't have to read it or logged early so I didn't have to hear about it in ts I was in at the time.

ataggs

Minno wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

EP lacks the visionary leadership that General Lord FENGRUSH has always provided to the covenant - something to strive for.. a reason to make themselves better in hopes they could one day before worth enough to serve His Lordship. No matter how bad or insignificant you are as a player on the battlefield, fighting under the covenant you know you have the Lord's blessing upon you when you brace the AD zergs and the EP ball groups.

EPs problem is everyone is constantly trying to outdo each other with variations of characters named ragnar and rolo - only to realize these false idols will always pale in comparison to FENGRUSH, a truly indomitable force they must endure every night.

Also we can't forget @Publius_Scipio and his beautiful battle-poetry to commemorate DC's pain and wins.

I suggest that we (DC) keep Publius and donate Fengrush. He's free to a good home....ok he's just free to any home.

Bfish22090

OdinForge wrote: »

Pchela wrote: »

Guild relations in EP must improve if we are to start working together to help each other. I am sad to say that there are a few guilds out there that think that just because I am in Haxus, that means I am not here to help the campaign. They are wrong, I love to help. I like objectives, I like helping learn... but I get shut down because I am Haxus. "Why are you coming to such-and-such keep to help, aren't you Haxus? Why do you care?" was a recent PM I got. This upsets me that we have gained this reputation. Despite that, I am still going to push to teach.

Sometimes old family traditions die, when eventually at some point a new younger generation fails to adopt old methods.

The EP community today is nothing like it used to be in the past, not going to call out specific people or guilds. NA Haderus at the launch of 1.8, when a bunch of random EP guilds homed there. Zone chat became so toxic, players actively working against their own faction, working against guilds that have been there for some time.

Dutchess raised a good point here, you cannot help the unwilling. There are potential leaders all over EP, but they have been silenced by the reality that training top players takes a long time and a lot of effort, you're fighting against the resistance of both player and game performance and it's a burnout. The "top players" tend to also faction swap, some remain rooted though. But so many good players on my list I often see leveling alternative faction toons.

But even worse is the disconnect between player and game. I don't see the performance of PvP in this game providing the support it needs to a happy and healthy player-base. I would never join Azura (or another locked and laggy campaign) and subject myself to hours of miserable lag. I wish that I could play on the busiest server, and have fun but this isn't that game. The state of the game is so wretched, what motivation is there to even try anymore. The players are unhappy with performance and how little ZOS seems to care about PvP, nothing is going to change until ZOS steps up to reinvigorate PvP.

We lost our guilds to other games, because PvP in this game is just broken. Perhaps one of the reasons I still play this game, is that I've been able to avoid large amounts of lag and frustration by playing on smaller servers (subsequently with smaller groups). With Haderus being as laggy as its been recently, I've been finding myself logging out earlier and earlier, my back to a wall with no other options in sight.

This potato farmer knows what he is talking about