The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
AoE Caps Discussion
-
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭We disagree and I'm really not going to use more time arguing for the AOE caps removal, because it won't change a f*cking thing apparantly. You'll have to explain this, though, to me:
How? Do you even know how AOE caps currently work?The main concern I would have from removing the cap is the effect on lag. If it does little to nothing to break of the Blobs (which I don't think it would), then it would mean significantly greater server load from calculating (and communicating) the addition damage/effects/targets.
If you hit 10 people that's 10x calculations.
If you hit 100 people that's 100x calculations.
Is it really that difficult to grasp the effect AoE caps has on client updates at the server and client updates that then have to go from server to clients via the network ?
I would suggest @Talcyndl understands the ramifications of AoE caps far better than a few on here.
You think destroying large groups is the priority in reducing lag.
Yet seem oblivious removing caps empowers them at the same time as you.
And have absolutely no regard for server performance and lag other than a wing and a prayer.
Yes small bomb groups can now damage more players.
BUT large groups can also hit many many more players for much much more damage over much much bigger area.
BUT pug groups who don't coordinate can also hit many many more people and not wipe them too.
So all your arguments about wiping large groups is irrelevant as it only works for bomb groups.
PVP is pointless with LAG. Cap removal is not a cure. Its a stab in the dark and hope for the best that works well of coordinated bombs groups and lags out everyone else.
vis-a-vis.... be a large bomb group or go home.
That's is not compatible with solo and small group play that @Wrobel is trying to encourage.
We had Lag before 1.6...no one has argued this.
Lag went to a whole other level when AoE caps were rasied to 60 from 6 because all of you cried "remove AoE caps".
You had your way once....and now scream...we need to hit even more targets with even more damage.
It failed. It was proven to fail with 1.6 and the cap rise from 6 to 60 targets.
WHY DO YOU THINK THEY LOWERED CAMPAIGN POPULATION AND BEGGED PEOPLE TO SPREAD OUT SINCE 1.6 ?
It had no effect on the ball groups and if anything the ball groups have got bigger and more numerous since...because they have been empowered rather than culled.
Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »We disagree and I'm really not going to use more time arguing for the AOE caps removal, because it won't change a f*cking thing apparantly. You'll have to explain this, though, to me:
How? Do you even know how AOE caps currently work?The main concern I would have from removing the cap is the effect on lag. If it does little to nothing to break of the Blobs (which I don't think it would), then it would mean significantly greater server load from calculating (and communicating) the addition damage/effects/targets.
If you hit 10 people that's 10x calculations.
If you hit 100 people that's 100x calculations.
Is it really that difficult to grasp the effect AoE caps has on client updates at the server and client updates that then have to go from server to clients via the network ?
[...]
I guess that's a no.
DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU4 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »We disagree and I'm really not going to use more time arguing for the AOE caps removal, because it won't change a f*cking thing apparantly. You'll have to explain this, though, to me:
How? Do you even know how AOE caps currently work?The main concern I would have from removing the cap is the effect on lag. If it does little to nothing to break of the Blobs (which I don't think it would), then it would mean significantly greater server load from calculating (and communicating) the addition damage/effects/targets.
If you hit 10 people that's 10x calculations.
If you hit 100 people that's 100x calculations.
Is it really that difficult to grasp the effect AoE caps has on client updates at the server and client updates that then have to go from server to clients via the network ?
I would suggest @Talcyndl understands the ramifications of AoE caps far better than a few on here.
You think destroying large groups is the priority in reducing lag.
Yet seem oblivious removing caps empowers them at the same time as you.
And have absolutely no regard for server performance and lag other than a wing and a prayer.
Yes small bomb groups can now damage more players.
BUT large groups can also hit many many more players for much much more damage over much much bigger area.
BUT pug groups who don't coordinate can also hit many many more people and not wipe them too.
So all your arguments about wiping large groups is irrelevant as it only works for bomb groups.
PVP is pointless with LAG. Cap removal is not a cure. Its a stab in the dark and hope for the best that works well of coordinated bombs groups and lags out everyone else.
vis-a-vis.... be a large bomb group or go home.
That's is not compatible with solo and small group play that @Wrobel is trying to encourage.
We had Lag before 1.6...no one has argued this.
Lag went to a whole other level when AoE caps were rasied to 60 from 6 because all of you cried "remove AoE caps".
You had your way once....and now scream...we need to hit even more targets with even more damage.
It failed. It was proven to fail with 1.6 and the cap rise from 6 to 60 targets.
WHY DO YOU THINK THEY LOWERED CAMPAIGN POPULATION AND BEGGED PEOPLE TO SPREAD OUT SINCE 1.6 ?
It had no effect on the ball groups and if anything the ball groups have got bigger and more numerous since...because they have been empowered rather than culled.
If you hit 100 people stacked ontop of them with multiple AOE's without a cap..they'll all be dead...Where as right now if you hit say 60 people (the cap) with multiple AOE's...they'll probably still be alive..It takes longer to kill them..they require more AOE's to be used..Each time you hit them with that AOE..you have to do multiple passes to determine which gets hit for 100%; which gets hit for like 30% ect ect...
Basically its not the initial bomb that brings the server to its knee's..its when they're still standing in the same spot after 10 seconds of the initial bomb spamming AOE's
As for talking about Lag in a whole other level before 1.6
No..we've talked about this before
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJFi1SYcaFQ
July of last year
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos4 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭
No.Rune_Relic wrote: »If you hit 10 people that's 10x calculations.
If you hit 100 people that's 100x calculations.
No.Rune_Relic wrote: »You think destroying large groups is the priority in reducing lag.
Yet seem oblivious removing caps empowers them at the same time as you.
N... evermind, you can't be serious.Rune_Relic wrote: »We had Lag before 1.6...no one has argued this.
Lag went to a whole other level when AoE caps were rasied to 60 from 6 because all of you cried "remove AoE caps".
You had your way once....and now scream...we need to hit even more targets with even more damage.
It failed. It was proven to fail with 1.6 and the cap rise from 6 to 60 targets.
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws6 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You are therefor dismissing any discussion about balance and mechanics as long as the game is not working - what happens when these (balance and gameperformance) interact with each other?
Im just trying to get behind your thougt process...<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Yuke✭✭✭✭✭No1 is going to say something against gap closer per se but IF you manage to get out of max range, then you SHOULD be able to disengange from your target (mostly targets).
Its called CLOSING the GAP and not, PREVENTING to BUILD a GAP.
Once you manage to get out of distance, the gap closer won't fire off. Not sure how that's an issue with or without the mini-stun.
Wow, really? How about because you cant even get close to the situation of disengaging (leaving the range of a gap closer) because of the ongoing silencing?
Are you even for real man? You cant be serious...
Edited by Yuke on December 5, 2015 3:45PM6 -
Jhunn✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You're not worth my time anymore sryRune_Relic wrote: »Bla bla bla
How I feel atm about this discussion (and game)
Gave up.7 -
Talcyndl✭✭✭✭✭No1 is going to say something against gap closer per se but IF you manage to get out of max range, then you SHOULD be able to disengange from your target (mostly targets).
Its called CLOSING the GAP and not, PREVENTING to BUILD a GAP.
Once you manage to get out of distance, the gap closer won't fire off. Not sure how that's an issue with or without the mini-stun.
Wow, really? How about because you cant even get close to the situation of disengaging (leaving the range of a gap closer) because of the ongoing silencing?
Are you even for real man? You cant be serious...
How is it "ongoing"? Other than ambush, all the gap closers have a minimum distance. So they can't fire off again after catching you. Just try something (like cc on them) before you bolt again. Sorry that spamming bolt is no longer a get out of jail free card.
Edited by Talcyndl on December 5, 2015 4:03PMTal'gro Bol
PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/1 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »We disagree and I'm really not going to use more time arguing for the AOE caps removal, because it won't change a f*cking thing apparantly. You'll have to explain this, though, to me:
How? Do you even know how AOE caps currently work?The main concern I would have from removing the cap is the effect on lag. If it does little to nothing to break of the Blobs (which I don't think it would), then it would mean significantly greater server load from calculating (and communicating) the addition damage/effects/targets.
If you hit 10 people that's 10x calculations.
If you hit 100 people that's 100x calculations.
Is it really that difficult to grasp the effect AoE caps has on client updates at the server and client updates that then have to go from server to clients via the network ?
I would suggest @Talcyndl understands the ramifications of AoE caps far better than a few on here.
You think destroying large groups is the priority in reducing lag.
Yet seem oblivious removing caps empowers them at the same time as you.
And have absolutely no regard for server performance and lag other than a wing and a prayer.
Yes small bomb groups can now damage more players.
BUT large groups can also hit many many more players for much much more damage over much much bigger area.
BUT pug groups who don't coordinate can also hit many many more people and not wipe them too.
So all your arguments about wiping large groups is irrelevant as it only works for bomb groups.
PVP is pointless with LAG. Cap removal is not a cure. Its a stab in the dark and hope for the best that works well of coordinated bombs groups and lags out everyone else.
vis-a-vis.... be a large bomb group or go home.
That's is not compatible with solo and small group play that @Wrobel is trying to encourage.
We had Lag before 1.6...no one has argued this.
Lag went to a whole other level when AoE caps were rasied to 60 from 6 because all of you cried "remove AoE caps".
You had your way once....and now scream...we need to hit even more targets with even more damage.
It failed. It was proven to fail with 1.6 and the cap rise from 6 to 60 targets.
WHY DO YOU THINK THEY LOWERED CAMPAIGN POPULATION AND BEGGED PEOPLE TO SPREAD OUT SINCE 1.6 ?
It had no effect on the ball groups and if anything the ball groups have got bigger and more numerous since...because they have been empowered rather than culled.
If you hit 100 people stacked ontop of them with multiple AOE's without a cap..they'll all be dead...Where as right now if you hit say 60 people (the cap) with multiple AOE's...they'll probably still be alive..It takes longer to kill them..they require more AOE's to be used..Each time you hit them with that AOE..you have to do multiple passes to determine which gets hit for 100%; which gets hit for like 30% ect ect...
Basically its not the initial bomb that brings the server to its knee's..its when they're still standing in the same spot after 10 seconds of the initial bomb spamming AOE's
As for talking about Lag in a whole other level before 1.6
No..we've talked about this beforehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJFi1SYcaFQ
July of last year
So you have 100 people all within the same healing circle (your targeted area) and you think 4 players are going to kill anyone with smart heals going off ?
Especially if your 4 strikes land over 4 ticks instead of 1 tick with the lag affecting different players latency in different ways.
I really cant believe anything anyone says if they think more players hit does not equal more server calculations and client updates to make.
Clearly they have never coded anything in their life.
Its really such a no brainer its not even worthy of discussion.
Probably why wrobel hasn't even merited the discussion with a response TBH.
And there you go again denying PVP campaign size was reduced and PVP players told to spread out.
That was because........... ???????Edited by Rune_Relic on December 5, 2015 4:04PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No1 is going to say something against gap closer per se but IF you manage to get out of max range, then you SHOULD be able to disengange from your target (mostly targets).
Its called CLOSING the GAP and not, PREVENTING to BUILD a GAP.
Once you manage to get out of distance, the gap closer won't fire off. Not sure how that's an issue with or without the mini-stun.
Wow, really? How about because you cant even get close to the situation of disengaging (leaving the range of a gap closer) because of the ongoing silencing?
Are you even for real man? You cant be serious...
How is it "ongoing"? Other than ambush, all the gap closets have a minimum distance. So they can't fire off again after catching you. Just try something (like cc on them) before you bolt again. Sorry that spamming bolt is no longer a get out of jail free card.
He is a stam Dk. So - yeah. I get that your rhoughtprocess is:
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Talcyndl✭✭✭✭✭Im just trying to get behind your thougt process...
My thoughts are simple.
Blobs and lag are far and away the number one issue (and they are basically the same issue) in PvP.
Removing AoE caps will not (by itself) solve that problem. On the other hand, the siege changes and the range of skill changes Wrobel discusses could break the Blobs.
That's a good thing. Even if the partial AoE cap/diminishing return system we have remains.
If they decide to get rid of it that's fine too.Tal'gro Bol
PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/0 -
Jhunn✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Stop using 100 people as an example. You'll never have 100 enemies in an AOE area in this game. You'll never have more than 60 people, which is the current cap. You understand this, yes? Removal of AOE caps won't make you hit 'more people', because there will simply not be more than 60 people to hit at once, that will never happen. You understand if you hit 60 people right now, yes, where 6/24/30 people has to take calculated damage? For every AOE? Yes? With no AOE cap you'll hit all 60 people without any need for extra calculations? Yes?Rune_Relic wrote: »[
So you have 100 people all within the same healing circle (your targeted area) and you think 4 players are going to kill anyone with smart heals going off ?
Especially if your 4 strikes land over 4 ticks instead of 1 tick with the lag affecting different players latency in different ways.
I really cant believe anything anyone says if they think more players hit does not equal more server calculations and client updates to make.
Clearly they have never coded anything in their life.
Its really such a no brainer its not even worthy of discussion.
Probably why wrobel hasn't even merited the discussion with a response TBH.
Stop being such a foolGave up.7 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »We disagree and I'm really not going to use more time arguing for the AOE caps removal, because it won't change a f*cking thing apparantly. You'll have to explain this, though, to me:
How? Do you even know how AOE caps currently work?The main concern I would have from removing the cap is the effect on lag. If it does little to nothing to break of the Blobs (which I don't think it would), then it would mean significantly greater server load from calculating (and communicating) the addition damage/effects/targets.
If you hit 10 people that's 10x calculations.
If you hit 100 people that's 100x calculations.
Is it really that difficult to grasp the effect AoE caps has on client updates at the server and client updates that then have to go from server to clients via the network ?
I would suggest @Talcyndl understands the ramifications of AoE caps far better than a few on here.
You think destroying large groups is the priority in reducing lag.
Yet seem oblivious removing caps empowers them at the same time as you.
And have absolutely no regard for server performance and lag other than a wing and a prayer.
Yes small bomb groups can now damage more players.
BUT large groups can also hit many many more players for much much more damage over much much bigger area.
BUT pug groups who don't coordinate can also hit many many more people and not wipe them too.
So all your arguments about wiping large groups is irrelevant as it only works for bomb groups.
PVP is pointless with LAG. Cap removal is not a cure. Its a stab in the dark and hope for the best that works well of coordinated bombs groups and lags out everyone else.
vis-a-vis.... be a large bomb group or go home.
That's is not compatible with solo and small group play that @Wrobel is trying to encourage.
We had Lag before 1.6...no one has argued this.
Lag went to a whole other level when AoE caps were rasied to 60 from 6 because all of you cried "remove AoE caps".
You had your way once....and now scream...we need to hit even more targets with even more damage.
It failed. It was proven to fail with 1.6 and the cap rise from 6 to 60 targets.
WHY DO YOU THINK THEY LOWERED CAMPAIGN POPULATION AND BEGGED PEOPLE TO SPREAD OUT SINCE 1.6 ?
It had no effect on the ball groups and if anything the ball groups have got bigger and more numerous since...because they have been empowered rather than culled.
If you hit 100 people stacked ontop of them with multiple AOE's without a cap..they'll all be dead...Where as right now if you hit say 60 people (the cap) with multiple AOE's...they'll probably still be alive..It takes longer to kill them..they require more AOE's to be used..Each time you hit them with that AOE..you have to do multiple passes to determine which gets hit for 100%; which gets hit for like 30% ect ect...
Basically its not the initial bomb that brings the server to its knee's..its when they're still standing in the same spot after 10 seconds of the initial bomb spamming AOE's
As for talking about Lag in a whole other level before 1.6
No..we've talked about this beforehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJFi1SYcaFQ
July of last year
So you have 100 people all within the same healing circle (your targeted area) and you think 4 players are going to kill anyone with smart heals going off ?
Especially if your 4 strikes land over 4 ticks instead of 1 tick with the lag affecting different players latency in different ways.
I really cant believe anything anyone says if they think more players hit does not equal more server calculations and client updates to make.
Clearly they have never coded anything in their life.
Its really such a no brainer its not even worthy of discussion.
Probably why wrobel hasn't even merited the discussion with a response TBH.
Fine. Lets cap aoes at 40 - 33.3% less than now but without any dmg dropoff??? Less cap less calculations and no dropoff calculations - yaaaaaaaaay?Edited by Derra on December 5, 2015 4:05PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Talcyndl✭✭✭✭✭He is a stam Dk. So - yeah. I get that your rhoughtprocess is:
Well, I'm currently experimenting with him as a tanky DK, but....
I understand that a sorc would love bolt that can be cast several times without risk of interruption. I prefer having a counter - especially when it can be counter-countered (other than spammable ambush).Tal'gro Bol
PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭He is a stam Dk. So - yeah. I get that your rhoughtprocess is:
Well, I'm currently experimenting with him as a tanky DK, but....
I understand that a sorc would love bolt that can be cast several times without risk of interruption. I prefer having a counter - especially when it can be counter-countered (other than spammable ambush).
But the guy you argue with is no sorc... He is a dk<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Talcyndl✭✭✭✭✭He is a stam Dk. So - yeah. I get that your rhoughtprocess is:
Well, I'm currently experimenting with him as a tanky DK, but....
I understand that a sorc would love bolt that can be cast several times without risk of interruption. I prefer having a counter - especially when it can be counter-countered (other than spammable ambush).
But the guy you argue with is no sorc... He is a dk
He's talking about not being able to "disengage". Which we all know, DK have never been able to disengage, mini-stun or not. Tal'gro Bol
PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/0 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »If you hit 10 people that's 10x calculations.
If you hit 100 people that's 100x calculations.Rune_Relic wrote: »I really cant believe anything anyone says if they think more players hit does not equal more server calculations and client updates to make.
Clearly they have never coded anything in their life.
Its really such a no brainer its not even worthy of discussion.
I objected to your throwing around random numbers that might appear sensible to someone using only common sense. If you ever coded, you should know that not every problem has linear complexity. 100 people = 100x calculations is nonsense.
Let's have an example. You're in a room with 20 other people, and your task is to give me the names of 5 with the thinnest left wrist. So you ask each person their name and measure their wrist, write that down and after you have all 20 find the 5 thinnest. If your task was to give me 10 names instead, would it be twice as hard? No.
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws2 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »We disagree and I'm really not going to use more time arguing for the AOE caps removal, because it won't change a f*cking thing apparantly. You'll have to explain this, though, to me:
How? Do you even know how AOE caps currently work?The main concern I would have from removing the cap is the effect on lag. If it does little to nothing to break of the Blobs (which I don't think it would), then it would mean significantly greater server load from calculating (and communicating) the addition damage/effects/targets.
If you hit 10 people that's 10x calculations.
If you hit 100 people that's 100x calculations.
Is it really that difficult to grasp the effect AoE caps has on client updates at the server and client updates that then have to go from server to clients via the network ?
I would suggest @Talcyndl understands the ramifications of AoE caps far better than a few on here.
You think destroying large groups is the priority in reducing lag.
Yet seem oblivious removing caps empowers them at the same time as you.
And have absolutely no regard for server performance and lag other than a wing and a prayer.
Yes small bomb groups can now damage more players.
BUT large groups can also hit many many more players for much much more damage over much much bigger area.
BUT pug groups who don't coordinate can also hit many many more people and not wipe them too.
So all your arguments about wiping large groups is irrelevant as it only works for bomb groups.
PVP is pointless with LAG. Cap removal is not a cure. Its a stab in the dark and hope for the best that works well of coordinated bombs groups and lags out everyone else.
vis-a-vis.... be a large bomb group or go home.
That's is not compatible with solo and small group play that @Wrobel is trying to encourage.
We had Lag before 1.6...no one has argued this.
Lag went to a whole other level when AoE caps were rasied to 60 from 6 because all of you cried "remove AoE caps".
You had your way once....and now scream...we need to hit even more targets with even more damage.
It failed. It was proven to fail with 1.6 and the cap rise from 6 to 60 targets.
WHY DO YOU THINK THEY LOWERED CAMPAIGN POPULATION AND BEGGED PEOPLE TO SPREAD OUT SINCE 1.6 ?
It had no effect on the ball groups and if anything the ball groups have got bigger and more numerous since...because they have been empowered rather than culled.
If you hit 100 people stacked ontop of them with multiple AOE's without a cap..they'll all be dead...Where as right now if you hit say 60 people (the cap) with multiple AOE's...they'll probably still be alive..It takes longer to kill them..they require more AOE's to be used..Each time you hit them with that AOE..you have to do multiple passes to determine which gets hit for 100%; which gets hit for like 30% ect ect...
Basically its not the initial bomb that brings the server to its knee's..its when they're still standing in the same spot after 10 seconds of the initial bomb spamming AOE's
As for talking about Lag in a whole other level before 1.6
No..we've talked about this beforehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJFi1SYcaFQ
July of last year
So you have 100 people all within the same healing circle (your targeted area) and you think 4 players are going to kill anyone with smart heals going off ?
Especially if your 4 strikes land over 4 ticks instead of 1 tick with the lag affecting different players latency in different ways.
I really cant believe anything anyone says if they think more players hit does not equal more server calculations and client updates to make.
Clearly they have never coded anything in their life.
Its really such a no brainer its not even worthy of discussion.
Probably why wrobel hasn't even merited the discussion with a response TBH.
Fine. Lets cap aoes at 40 - 33.3% less than now but without any dmg dropoff??? Less cap less calculations and no dropoff calculations - yaaaaaaaaay?
That's not what I am saying Derra.
I agree small groups need a buff vs big groups (or more accurately big ball groups are the number 2 problem after lag).
I agree drop-off should never ever ever ever have been introduced for any reason.
I also agree being able to only hit 6 people for full power when the max group size is 24 is absolutely nonsensical with smart heals.
What I do disagree with is that raising AoE caps has absolutely no negative impact on server performance and lag.
I want Lag free....small group viable PVP.
I want ball group domination removed.
Exactly the same as most of the people I am apparently arguing with.
Even the x pro ball group appear to be on my side too.
The irony is quite unfathomable.
Anything that can be exploited will be exploited1 -
Jhunn✭✭✭✭✭
✭You still haven't properly explained why it would affect server perfomance negatively.
And don't bring something up like 'Cuz I can hit 1000 people so it's more calculations'.Edited by Jhunn on December 5, 2015 4:50PMGave up.3 -
Galalin✭✭✭✭✭This is a joke...acting like this thread is leading to these changes!!! what a cop out. This crap should have already been fixed and is just a way to make it look like you give a *** about the PvP community Mr.Wrobel!!!!
The thread you posted was about AoE caps so Mr.Wrobel we would appreciate you stay on topic as per your own forum rules!!!!
You have had tons of feedback on it and its overwhelming evidence that AoE caps are not wanted!!! So how about you stop dodging the real question you posed and give us an answer on AoE caps.
Are you going to listen to your player base or NOT?
DK SCRUB OUT
P.S. I encourage everyone to report Mr.Wrobels post for not staying on topic
Edited by Galalin on December 5, 2015 5:06PM4 -
Talcyndl✭✭✭✭✭
I am interested in how you think the current mini-stun prevents disengagement on an "ongoing" basis. Is it being hit by multiple players?Tal'gro Bol
PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/0 -
SturgeHammer✭✭✭✭The two avenues of attack we are perusing are buffing siege weapons and investigating making ranged abilities more effective at damaging large groups of players.
A big damage buff to reflective light and silver shards would be nice for this.
First-in-Line - Swings-for-Lethal
Green-Thumb - Scale-Factor
Hist-Tree-Major - A-Late-One
Needs-Some-Help - Dead-Last0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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Why when he just lost the argument?He is a stam Dk. So - yeah. I get that your rhoughtprocess is:
Well, I'm currently experimenting with him as a tanky DK, but....
I understand that a sorc would love bolt that can be cast several times without risk of interruption. I prefer having a counter - especially when it can be counter-countered (other than spammable ambush).
But the guy you argue with is no sorc... He is a dk
He's talking about not being able to "disengage". Which we all know, DK have never been able to disengage, mini-stun or not.
Just because you dont understand how something works or cant reproduce it it does not become untrue.
Your statement just proved you are unable to argue on the topic because it is beyond your own limitations. As a result you act like the infamous pidgeon on a chessboard.
Please dont argue on things you dont understand just for the sake of an uninformed opinion.
It was very much possible for dks to disengage...<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
Talcyndl✭✭✭✭✭Your statement just proved you are unable to argue on the topic because it is beyond your own limitations. As a result you act like the infamous pidgeon [sic] on a chessboard.
Please dont argue on things you dont understand just for the sake of an uninformed opinion.
It was very much possible for dks to disengage...
Putting aside all the snark....
Can you explain how the current mini-stun system prevents disengagement on an "ongoing" basis? Again, are you talking about a situation with multiple attackers all stunning you?Tal'gro Bol
PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
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Stop using 100 people as an example. You'll never have 100 enemies in an AOE area in this game. You'll never have more than 60 people, which is the current cap. You understand this, yes? Removal of AOE caps won't make you hit 'more people', because there will simply not be more than 60 people to hit at once, that will never happen. You understand if you hit 60 people right now, yes, where 6/24/30 people has to take calculated damage? For every AOE? Yes? With no AOE cap you'll hit all 60 people without any need for extra calculations? Yes?Rune_Relic wrote: »[
So you have 100 people all within the same healing circle (your targeted area) and you think 4 players are going to kill anyone with smart heals going off ?
Especially if your 4 strikes land over 4 ticks instead of 1 tick with the lag affecting different players latency in different ways.
I really cant believe anything anyone says if they think more players hit does not equal more server calculations and client updates to make.
Clearly they have never coded anything in their life.
Its really such a no brainer its not even worthy of discussion.
Probably why wrobel hasn't even merited the discussion with a response TBH.
Stop being such a fool
You'll never have more than 60 people.
Gross assumption on your part. Fool.
You haven't been in the campaigns I have and seen the people standing on keep flags.
And what happens if PVP gets really silly and does have 100 people all balling up like some games ?
What happens if ball groups keep getting more and more popular and bigger and bigger to WIN ?
There is absolutely NOTHING stopping ball groups being any size they want other than the Campaign POP CAP.
Removal of AoE caps wont make you hit more people.
Your 4 man group could only hit 24 people at one time.....now you can potentially hit 240 at once.
1.6 increased the potential calcs 10 fold.... and everyone paid the price when 1.6 dropped.
This needs reversing and the cap reduced until its suitable for the number of players on screen.
Answer the question instead of swerving it every single time.....WHY DID ZOS REPEATEDLY REDUCE CAMPAIGN SIZE AND TELL EVERYONE TO SPREAD OUT AFTER 1.6 DROPPED ?
I assume you know the answer but just refuse to accept it....aka denial.
With no AOE cap you'll hit all 60 people without any need for extra calculations?
You'll hit any one and everyone that's crammed in the AoE radius (how big they get is an assumption).
And how many are in the AoE radius is defined by the ball group size and not the label on the skill info (carpet bombing).
A 24 man coordinated group can carpet bomb a massive area and hit everyone in a keep in one tick
How much those selection circles overlap determine the damage multiplyer.
There is NO LIMIT on how many players can stand in this area ...except Population Caps (if you remove AoE caps).
Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your statement just proved you are unable to argue on the topic because it is beyond your own limitations. As a result you act like the infamous pidgeon [sic] on a chessboard.
Please dont argue on things you dont understand just for the sake of an uninformed opinion.
It was very much possible for dks to disengage...
Putting aside all the snark....
Can you explain how the current mini-stun system prevents disengagement on an "ongoing" basis? Again, are you talking about a situation with multiple attackers all stunning you?
Exactly that. Multiple attackers prevent you from moving at all even under the effects of shuffle or rapid maneuver.
That's the issue.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502
