Azergas

Blaqueflame

Jack_Handey wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

I'm on that recap and mine usually looks the same, how else can somebody beat a zerg coming at them? If you know please tell me, because i'm sick of steel tornado!

I very much doubt that there is a player anywhere in Cyrodiil who couldn't post a similar screen shot featuring opposing factions using the exact same abilities. It's not special.

frozywozy

Lil_kitty wrote: »

@GRxKnight

Challenge accepted. Bring it on.

DC will fight fire with fire.

Lil_kitty wrote: »

@GRxKnight

Challenge accepted. Bring it on.

DC will fight fire with arrows.

Here, I corrected that for you.

BigTone

@Cinnamon_Spider almost all of what you say is completely true. The players have the power to fix a lot of what is wrong with this game, but at the end of the day most players will do what it takes to win at any costs, even server performance. This is not directed at anyone or any faction, all factions zerg. ZoS needs to make a change. Punish people for stacking and then the game will change for the better.

Before IC came out, I finished 3rd on Azura for DC. It was the only place I played. All of my friends played there. My guild played there. However I just couldn't take it anymore and had to leave. Big ass ball groups running keep to keep, lag exploits to take/defend keeps, horrible server performance. I now spend my days on Haderus or some other dead server spending most of my time in load screens or looking for a fight.I haven't touched Azura since IC and don't know if I could go back.

In the rare event my guild did get more than a full raid, I NEVER stacked both raids in the same keep, except to dethrone Meth a few times. Even then I would send one group after their scrolls to lighten some of the defense. It gets frustrating doing the right thing and sending 24 players to a keep to see 80 of the opponent there. Hell there were times where you could see groups balled up in a keep just spamming healing springs and other AoE's without the keep even being breached. yet I'm trying to be all righteous by spreading out my groups and then we see this ***. Then I get to hear the talk of "Well if we only had the other group with us we would of wiped em".

I'm tired of it. The player base has been asking for change for too long, and it falls on deaf ears. I have my job, I go to school, and then try to maintain some sort of relationship with my girlfriend, then after all that I want to play some ESO and have to deal with 5 fps and 50 man zergs. Even with small scale battles of 10-20 players my fps drops. So many great players have left the game. So many friends lost because they can't take the neglect that ZoS keeps dishing out, yet we are still here. I love this game, hell I practically puked when I did my last /played, but everyone has their breaking point.

#allfactionszerg
#removeAoEcap
#whyamIbringingupmypersonallifeinavideogameforum?
#rantover

MountainHound

If I didn't like a campaign I was playing in and constantly raged and was having no fun, I'd personally move on. The hate mail has been piling for a couple of weeks now so you are not only made aware of the "zerg" now.

I mean, some of the AD players in AS right now are not even homed there. The AD zerg that came on and zerged around last night. Now that was disgraceful and that was a certain cry for help from a certain faction.

At least we are home here and fight for the campaign win.

Jack_Handey

MountainHound wrote: »

If I didn't like a campaign I was playing in and constantly raged and was having no fun, I'd personally move on. The hate mail has been piling for a couple of weeks now so you are not only made aware of the "zerg" now.

I mean, some of the AD players in AS right now are not even homed there. The AD zerg that came on and zerged around last night. Now that was disgraceful and that was a certain cry for help from a certain faction.

At least we are home here and fight for the campaign win.

Completely agree.

frozywozy

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Ghostbane

SIR, I SEE YOUR ZERG, AND RAISE YOU, BY A ZERG.
- Azura transcripts November, 2015, "War of the Blue Latency"

Morbash

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Not once in any of my posts did I declare that we should continue zerging in hopes that ZOS will do something about it. I simply stated what the root of the problem was and why I think spreading out is an impractical solution. I don’t think it’ll happen because it has yet to happen. It’s been months since ZOS confirmed that their servers can't handle the zergs and NOTHING has changed. Zergs still run rampant. There's a massive difference between negativity and practicality.

Also, while there aren't a million guild leaders, there are thousands of players in this game. And chances are someone is going to form a zerg. Then the opposing team retaliates with a zerg of their own. From there, the problem snowballs.

I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people.

Blaqueflame

People allegedly hate "ball groups" and "zerging". You would think that ESO is the first mmo to run up against these tactics (it's not). You would think there are zero strategies to oppose these tactics (not so). If I were a PVP raid leader (which I am not), I would be applying my battle exuberance to rethinking strategy.

“Water shapes its course according to the nature of the ground over which it flows; the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I can only assume a general lack of strategy and tactical intelligence

FENGRUSH

This pretty much proves numbers win and any side is willing to zerg. The leadership is willing to zerg at any cost to win. Kudos to the ball groups who pretty much prove what is preached every day about these ball groups on my stream. Threads like this put a smile on my face.

Please keep destroying the server and preserving a reason for people to come to the forums and keep this issue alive for ZOS. In the end, it is up to them to provide a proper solution for it all. As @Cinnamon_Spider posted its really up to the players to play how they want - and if we can direct the more zergy guilds to a single server instead of blowing up multiple servers, that seems like a better way to live for everyone else that actually wants to engage in reasonable PvP.

Blaqueflame

FENGRUSH wrote: »

This pretty much proves numbers win and any side is willing to zerg. The leadership is willing to zerg at any cost to win. Kudos to the ball groups who pretty much prove what is preached every day about these ball groups on my stream. Threads like this put a smile on my face.

Please keep destroying the server and preserving a reason for people to come to the forums and keep this issue alive for ZOS. In the end, it is up to them to provide a proper solution for it all. As @Cinnamon_Spider posted its really up to the players to play how they want - and if we can direct the more zergy guilds to a single server instead of blowing up multiple servers, that seems like a better way to live for everyone else that actually wants to engage in reasonable PvP.

I've been reading the forums, and watching the "We Are ESO" videos ... and listening to this passionate dislike of zerging and ball groups ... what I am trying to imagine is what happens when you take mass coordinated group play out of Cyrodiil. What's the vision?

X number of people are online in Cyrodiil ... the map is large, the objectives many ... but what's this? Solo pvp-ers or groups of I dunno what the magic number is ... 4? 6? 12? or less ... manage those objectives. These groups of say 4, don't come together to defend or capture, because as soon as two (or three or whatever the magic number is ...) groups engage they are now "zerging".... and we don't do none of that stinking cooperative across grp play stuff anymore.

Ball groups are completely unnecessary as a smaller group doesn't need to worry about defending against larger numbers ....

Keeps and resources are empty, plenty of room for two teams of whatever the magic number is, 8? 10? 12? to spread out and ummm ... duel?

Seriously - I know what is not wanted, but I don't have a picture of this utopia version of Cyrodiil.

Wollust

Blaqueflame wrote: »

People allegedly hate "ball groups" and "zerging". You would think that ESO is the first mmo to run up against these tactics (it's not). You would think there are zero strategies to oppose these tactics (not so). If I were a PVP raid leader (which I am not), I would be applying my battle exuberance to rethinking strategy.

“Water shapes its course according to the nature of the ground over which it flows; the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I can only assume a general lack of strategy and tactical intelligence

Nice quoting and everything. But you are wrong. While there are ways to fight zergs and ball groups, there is limitations to it. Mainly called AoE cap. An incentitive that let's people mitigate a ton of damage just by stacking up on the crown. And the higher the number, the higher the chance of survival in this ball groups. So no, there is not a lack of strategy and tactical intelligence. The only one lacking intelligence atm is ZoS, showing it by promoting the zerg issue more and more with every update.

Blaqueflame

Wollust wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

People allegedly hate "ball groups" and "zerging". You would think that ESO is the first mmo to run up against these tactics (it's not). You would think there are zero strategies to oppose these tactics (not so). If I were a PVP raid leader (which I am not), I would be applying my battle exuberance to rethinking strategy.

“Water shapes its course according to the nature of the ground over which it flows; the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I can only assume a general lack of strategy and tactical intelligence

Nice quoting and everything. But you are wrong. While there are ways to fight zergs and ball groups, there is limitations to it. Mainly called AoE cap. An incentitive that let's people mitigate a ton of damage just by stacking up on the crown. And the higher the number, the higher the chance of survival in this ball groups. So no, there is not a lack of strategy and tactical intelligence. The only one lacking intelligence atm is ZoS, showing it by promoting the zerg issue more and more with every update.

Thank you I'm a fan of Sun Tzu. I think I am gonna have to agree to disagree - because I have seen some very effective strategies to break up a group of players, or play a zerg. It doesn't happen often enough, this is true. Don't get me wrong, I am not at all saying that ZOS shouldn't deal with the server issues -- that's a given -- I am proposing alternative strategies to running into a zerg and clashing - the map is large. The general advice, that players should just coordinate themselves and not be in larger groups or ball groups - I don't think is gonna go far. People will use the strategy that works. They change strategies when it no longer works.

frozywozy

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Not once in any of my posts did I declare that we should continue zerging in hopes that ZOS will do something about it. I simply stated what the root of the problem was and why I think spreading out is an impractical solution. I don’t think it’ll happen because it has yet to happen. It’s been months since ZOS confirmed that their servers can't handle the zergs and NOTHING has changed. Zergs still run rampant.

I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people.

"What the root of the problem was" and "spreading out is an impractical solution". That has absolutely nothing to do with what I developped in my counter-argument and what I've wrote. You still neglect and refuse to believe that the dozen of group leaders out there (in US) have a major impact in the server performances and depending of the actions they take in the course of the battle, they can make the game much better by changing their position on the map. It has started already in EP - Azura Star, why would it be so different for you, sir?

Another major factor that I forgot to mention in my initial post that has nothing to do with what you said, @DeusAres , I have seen plenty of times the past couple weeks AD in Azura Star engaging into a 3ways fight when DC and EP were already part of a 100+ players battle on the screen. It is always the same AD groups doing such a thing and they know who they are. Some of their players even post in these threads and whine about server performance problems as much as we all do but they don't realize that when they bring their 16men aoe spam group into a 100players fight with 2-3 other aoe spam groups already present, the only thing it causes is problems.

My conclusion is : Don't engage into a 3 way fights when there is already too many players present. It is not hard to notice when the server can't take it. You look up at your fps / ms and you get away from there.

BigTone

Blaqueflame wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

This pretty much proves numbers win and any side is willing to zerg. The leadership is willing to zerg at any cost to win. Kudos to the ball groups who pretty much prove what is preached every day about these ball groups on my stream. Threads like this put a smile on my face.

Please keep destroying the server and preserving a reason for people to come to the forums and keep this issue alive for ZOS. In the end, it is up to them to provide a proper solution for it all. As @Cinnamon_Spider posted its really up to the players to play how they want - and if we can direct the more zergy guilds to a single server instead of blowing up multiple servers, that seems like a better way to live for everyone else that actually wants to engage in reasonable PvP.

I've been reading the forums, and watching the "We Are ESO" videos ... and listening to this passionate dislike of zerging and ball groups ... what I am trying to imagine is what happens when you take mass coordinated group play out of Cyrodiil. What's the vision?

X number of people are online in Cyrodiil ... the map is large, the objectives many ... but what's this? Solo pvp-ers or groups of I dunno what the magic number is ... 4? 6? 12? or less ... manage those objectives. These groups of say 4, don't come together to defend or capture, because as soon as two (or three or whatever the magic number is ...) groups engage they are now "zerging".... and we don't do none of that stinking cooperative across grp play stuff anymore.

Ball groups are completely unnecessary as a smaller group doesn't need to worry about defending against larger numbers ....

Keeps and resources are empty, plenty of room for two teams of whatever the magic number is, 8? 10? 12? to spread out and ummm ... duel?

Seriously - I know what is not wanted, but I don't have a picture of this utopia version of Cyrodiil.

A Cyrodil where large groups cannot stand in a breach purging off siege constantly raining on them, one where CC actually matters, one where smaller groups using sound tactics have a chance at wiping groups who just mindlessly stack a flag. One where groups cannot stand in oil for minutes at a time, and ball up just to mitigate damage and out heal everything.

Blaqueflame

BigTone wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

This pretty much proves numbers win and any side is willing to zerg. The leadership is willing to zerg at any cost to win. Kudos to the ball groups who pretty much prove what is preached every day about these ball groups on my stream. Threads like this put a smile on my face.

Please keep destroying the server and preserving a reason for people to come to the forums and keep this issue alive for ZOS. In the end, it is up to them to provide a proper solution for it all. As @Cinnamon_Spider posted its really up to the players to play how they want - and if we can direct the more zergy guilds to a single server instead of blowing up multiple servers, that seems like a better way to live for everyone else that actually wants to engage in reasonable PvP.

I've been reading the forums, and watching the "We Are ESO" videos ... and listening to this passionate dislike of zerging and ball groups ... what I am trying to imagine is what happens when you take mass coordinated group play out of Cyrodiil. What's the vision?

X number of people are online in Cyrodiil ... the map is large, the objectives many ... but what's this? Solo pvp-ers or groups of I dunno what the magic number is ... 4? 6? 12? or less ... manage those objectives. These groups of say 4, don't come together to defend or capture, because as soon as two (or three or whatever the magic number is ...) groups engage they are now "zerging".... and we don't do none of that stinking cooperative across grp play stuff anymore.

Ball groups are completely unnecessary as a smaller group doesn't need to worry about defending against larger numbers ....

Keeps and resources are empty, plenty of room for two teams of whatever the magic number is, 8? 10? 12? to spread out and ummm ... duel?

Seriously - I know what is not wanted, but I don't have a picture of this utopia version of Cyrodiil.

A Cyrodil where large groups cannot stand in a breach purging off siege constantly raining on them, one where CC actually matters, one where smaller groups using sound tactics have a chance at wiping groups who just mindlessly stack a flag. One where groups cannot stand in oil for minutes at a time, and ball up just to mitigate damage and out heal everything.

Ok - trying to track this vision (I'm on board) ... Everyone will continue to purge and heal, regardless of group size. If your group is being sieged there is going to have to be some offensive way to get into the keep, or you'll have one of these bitty groups holed up in a keep, and another itty bitty group standing however many yards away filing their nails. Flags are still gonna need flipping, resources will still need capturing. Numbers are relative, though I take the point about a reduction in lag, which would indeed be a good thing ... I am just not clear where the balance of players will be or what they will be doing. My thought is that regardless of the size of group - the same dynamics will be in play.

Abilities are another kettle of fish and its always a balancing act. CC is important, but not to the point where other classes and abilities cannot be played/used.

Ishammael

Blaqueflame wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

People allegedly hate "ball groups" and "zerging". You would think that ESO is the first mmo to run up against these tactics (it's not). You would think there are zero strategies to oppose these tactics (not so). If I were a PVP raid leader (which I am not), I would be applying my battle exuberance to rethinking strategy.

“Water shapes its course according to the nature of the ground over which it flows; the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I can only assume a general lack of strategy and tactical intelligence

Nice quoting and everything. But you are wrong. While there are ways to fight zergs and ball groups, there is limitations to it. Mainly called AoE cap. An incentitive that let's people mitigate a ton of damage just by stacking up on the crown. And the higher the number, the higher the chance of survival in this ball groups. So no, there is not a lack of strategy and tactical intelligence. The only one lacking intelligence atm is ZoS, showing it by promoting the zerg issue more and more with every update.

Thank you I'm a fan of Sun Tzu. I think I am gonna have to agree to disagree - because I have seen some very effective strategies to break up a group of players, or play a zerg. It doesn't happen often enough, this is true. Don't get me wrong, I am not at all saying that ZOS shouldn't deal with the server issues -- that's a given -- I am proposing alternative strategies to running into a zerg and clashing - the map is large. The general advice, that players should just coordinate themselves and not be in larger groups or ball groups - I don't think is gonna go far. People will use the strategy that works. They change strategies when it no longer works.

This isn't a case of agreement or disagreement. Groups of size greater than six are given provable, artificial advantages beyond simply their numbers: AoE caps and static ultimate.

Can you bust zergs? Sure.
Can you always bust the zerg? Of course not.
Do I want an "I win" button? Of course not.
Does the zerg ruin server performance? Yes.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

Last night, I was 'ordered' by someone higher up in my PVP guild to go outside of last emp keep which had two full raids defending it to take the AP so they didn't get any more AP. My group was about twelve players at the time. I did as I was ordered but the fps was horrible. The players started logging out. Finally, I had enough of the poor fps and took the few remaining people to take DC. The further we were from double raid, the better the fps. Then, another faction started with three full raids running together and I crashed out of the game eight times a three hour span.

Course the real fun is logging back in from a crash to see your health bar at 20% because you were under attack during the loading screens.

Blaqueflame

Ishammael wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

People allegedly hate "ball groups" and "zerging". You would think that ESO is the first mmo to run up against these tactics (it's not). You would think there are zero strategies to oppose these tactics (not so). If I were a PVP raid leader (which I am not), I would be applying my battle exuberance to rethinking strategy.

“Water shapes its course according to the nature of the ground over which it flows; the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I can only assume a general lack of strategy and tactical intelligence

Nice quoting and everything. But you are wrong. While there are ways to fight zergs and ball groups, there is limitations to it. Mainly called AoE cap. An incentitive that let's people mitigate a ton of damage just by stacking up on the crown. And the higher the number, the higher the chance of survival in this ball groups. So no, there is not a lack of strategy and tactical intelligence. The only one lacking intelligence atm is ZoS, showing it by promoting the zerg issue more and more with every update.

Thank you I'm a fan of Sun Tzu. I think I am gonna have to agree to disagree - because I have seen some very effective strategies to break up a group of players, or play a zerg. It doesn't happen often enough, this is true. Don't get me wrong, I am not at all saying that ZOS shouldn't deal with the server issues -- that's a given -- I am proposing alternative strategies to running into a zerg and clashing - the map is large. The general advice, that players should just coordinate themselves and not be in larger groups or ball groups - I don't think is gonna go far. People will use the strategy that works. They change strategies when it no longer works.

This isn't a case of agreement or disagreement. Groups of size greater than six are given provable, artificial advantages beyond simply their numbers: AoE caps and static ultimate.

Can you bust zergs? Sure.
Can you always bust the zerg? Of course not.
Do I want an "I win" button? Of course not.
Does the zerg ruin server performance? Yes.

Groups of six are given artificial advantages ... yet the game is designed for groups of more than 6.I am probably a bad devils advocate on the topic of group play -- I think the idea of groups playing against each other in a coordinated, strategic way is sexy - I am all about the strategy of it. However, I relate to people who are frustrated and angry about zergs and being pushed into playing in big groups just to be able to play at all. Personally its more like raiding than pvp-ing as I have experienced it in previous mmos.

I think what is really wanted/needed is some diversity ie; arenas and closed battle grounds. It doesn't sound like ZOS will provide them as it will take the game play out of Cyrodiil -- but I understand people are very unhappy. I am an unhappy camper when I am on my 5th dc and my computer crashes. I get it.

Some people like10 man 30 minute capped games, others like more expansive campaigns and more objectives. Some like the challenge of 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 or whatever. I think the game lacks diversity, and Cyrodiil can't be all things to all people.

In a perfect world, that is not Cyrodiil as it stands, large groups would be able to play against each other strategically without killing the server. I stand by the fact that this is a ZOS issue, and not the fault of those who love large scale pvp, and coordinated group play of the sort advertised and promoted by ZOS.

Morbash

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Not once in any of my posts did I declare that we should continue zerging in hopes that ZOS will do something about it. I simply stated what the root of the problem was and why I think spreading out is an impractical solution. I don’t think it’ll happen because it has yet to happen. It’s been months since ZOS confirmed that their servers can't handle the zergs and NOTHING has changed. Zergs still run rampant.

I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people.

"What the root of the problem was" and "spreading out is an impractical solution". That has absolutely nothing to do with what I developped in my counter-argument and what I've wrote. You still neglect and refuse to believe that the dozen of group leaders out there (in US) have a major impact in the server performances and depending of the actions they take in the course of the battle, they can make the game much better by changing their position on the map. It has started already in EP - Azura Star, why would it be so different for you, sir?

Another major factor that I forgot to mention in my initial post that has nothing to do with what you said, @DeusAres , I have seen plenty of times the past couple weeks AD in Azura Star engaging into a 3ways fight when DC and EP were already part of a 100+ players battle on the screen. It is always the same AD groups doing such a thing and they know who they are. Some of their players even post in these threads and whine about server performance problems as much as we all do but they don't realize that when they bring their 16men aoe spam group into a 100players fight with 2-3 other aoe spam groups already present, the only thing it causes is problems.

My conclusion is : Don't engage into a 3 way fights when there is already too many players present. It is not hard to notice when the server can't take it. You look up at your fps / ms and you get away from there.

Lol! You're seriously putting words in my mouth right now.

"What the root of the problem was" and "spreading out is an impractical solution". That has absolutely nothing to do with what I developped in my counter-argument and what I've wrote.

Of course it has nothing to do with your "counter-argument." That was the purpose of me telling you why your post was irrelevant and failed to apply to any of my posts in any way at all.

You still neglect and refuse to believe that the dozen of group leaders out there (in US) have a major impact in the server performances and depending of the actions they take in the course of the battle, they can make the game much better by changing their position on the map.

Once again, I never said this. You're putting words in my mouth again. I simply stated why I didn't think spreading out was going to work. I have explained my reasoning multiple times. I will not repeat it. I think it would be great if we could stop the zergballs, but I simply don't see it happening. I suggest you go back and objectively read my posts. My position on this topic is very clear.

My conclusion is : Don't engage into a 3 way fights when there is already too many players present. It is not hard to notice when the server can't take it. You look up at your fps / ms and you get away from there.

Amen! It would indeed be great if the vast majority of people did this, but they do not have incentive. They'll do whatever it takes to win. Now go back, read my posts, take a look at PVP gameplay progression over the course of the game and you'll see why this solution isn't working and has never worked. Zerging is encouraged.

frozywozy

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Not once in any of my posts did I declare that we should continue zerging in hopes that ZOS will do something about it. I simply stated what the root of the problem was and why I think spreading out is an impractical solution. I don’t think it’ll happen because it has yet to happen. It’s been months since ZOS confirmed that their servers can't handle the zergs and NOTHING has changed. Zergs still run rampant.

I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people.

"What the root of the problem was" and "spreading out is an impractical solution". That has absolutely nothing to do with what I developped in my counter-argument and what I've wrote. You still neglect and refuse to believe that the dozen of group leaders out there (in US) have a major impact in the server performances and depending of the actions they take in the course of the battle, they can make the game much better by changing their position on the map. It has started already in EP - Azura Star, why would it be so different for you, sir?

Another major factor that I forgot to mention in my initial post that has nothing to do with what you said, @DeusAres , I have seen plenty of times the past couple weeks AD in Azura Star engaging into a 3ways fight when DC and EP were already part of a 100+ players battle on the screen. It is always the same AD groups doing such a thing and they know who they are. Some of their players even post in these threads and whine about server performance problems as much as we all do but they don't realize that when they bring their 16men aoe spam group into a 100players fight with 2-3 other aoe spam groups already present, the only thing it causes is problems.

My conclusion is : Don't engage into a 3 way fights when there is already too many players present. It is not hard to notice when the server can't take it. You look up at your fps / ms and you get away from there.

Once again, I never said this. You're putting words in my mouth again. I simply stated why I didn't think spreading out was going to work. I have explained my reasoning multiple times. I will not repeat it. I think it would be great if we could stop the zergballs, but I simply don't see it happening. I suggest you go back and objectively read my posts. My position on this topic is very clear.

Dude, don't make it sound like we live on two different planets.

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You say black on white that people are encouraged to zerg because if they see too many players at the same place, they will bring more and that it creates a vicious circle. But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

And let's put this straight, it doesn't mean that if you hit somewhere else on the map, you will have less fun, will get less AP and will have a harder time. Let's say for example that EP and DC are already in a huge fight happening at Chalman and the server is about to explode. You are a group leader and you wonder if you should go assist Chalman which is about to fall to healing spring spam on the flags or if you should transit to Dragon and hit Aleswell in the meantime. EP guilds have done that in the past and it helped out the server while bringing the attention of some DC there, alleviated the latency at Chalman and gave us a ton of AP in the end.

There is no reason to believe that if you see a bigger zerg there, you should bring more players there if the server is already having a hard time. You should be mature enough to spread out and hit deeper in enemy territory. Plenty of people think like that already, we just need to keep the vibe going. We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Oh and if Zenimax finally decides to remove AOE Caps or to bring back some sort of dynamic ultimate regeneration, it will enforce the mentality that we don't necessary need equal or more numbers to crush an enemy group.

BigTone

Blaqueflame wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

This pretty much proves numbers win and any side is willing to zerg. The leadership is willing to zerg at any cost to win. Kudos to the ball groups who pretty much prove what is preached every day about these ball groups on my stream. Threads like this put a smile on my face.

Please keep destroying the server and preserving a reason for people to come to the forums and keep this issue alive for ZOS. In the end, it is up to them to provide a proper solution for it all. As @Cinnamon_Spider posted its really up to the players to play how they want - and if we can direct the more zergy guilds to a single server instead of blowing up multiple servers, that seems like a better way to live for everyone else that actually wants to engage in reasonable PvP.

I've been reading the forums, and watching the "We Are ESO" videos ... and listening to this passionate dislike of zerging and ball groups ... what I am trying to imagine is what happens when you take mass coordinated group play out of Cyrodiil. What's the vision?

X number of people are online in Cyrodiil ... the map is large, the objectives many ... but what's this? Solo pvp-ers or groups of I dunno what the magic number is ... 4? 6? 12? or less ... manage those objectives. These groups of say 4, don't come together to defend or capture, because as soon as two (or three or whatever the magic number is ...) groups engage they are now "zerging".... and we don't do none of that stinking cooperative across grp play stuff anymore.

Ball groups are completely unnecessary as a smaller group doesn't need to worry about defending against larger numbers ....

Keeps and resources are empty, plenty of room for two teams of whatever the magic number is, 8? 10? 12? to spread out and ummm ... duel?

Seriously - I know what is not wanted, but I don't have a picture of this utopia version of Cyrodiil.

A Cyrodil where large groups cannot stand in a breach purging off siege constantly raining on them, one where CC actually matters, one where smaller groups using sound tactics have a chance at wiping groups who just mindlessly stack a flag. One where groups cannot stand in oil for minutes at a time, and ball up just to mitigate damage and out heal everything.

Ok - trying to track this vision (I'm on board) ... Everyone will continue to purge and heal, regardless of group size. If your group is being sieged there is going to have to be some offensive way to get into the keep, or you'll have one of these bitty groups holed up in a keep, and another itty bitty group standing however many yards away filing their nails. Flags are still gonna need flipping, resources will still need capturing. Numbers are relative, though I take the point about a reduction in lag, which would indeed be a good thing ... I am just not clear where the balance of players will be or what they will be doing. My thought is that regardless of the size of group - the same dynamics will be in play.

Abilities are another kettle of fish and its always a balancing act. CC is important, but not to the point where other classes and abilities cannot be played/used.

Yes, groups will still purge and heal, but current game mechanics do not do enough to counter this. Slightly stronger siege would go a long way. Siege that does more damage based on number of targets hit would be ideal. Uncapped proxy det would be nice. Flags should not flip if there is an alive opponent on the flag. Putting multiple holes in a keep to spread out enemy counter siege should be a thing. Currently it isn't because it is more effective to stack up and purge/healing springs through it. Make taking resources more valuable so that smaller groups/ solo players can have an impact. Having to defend more objectives is one way to force players to spread out. The current meta of constantly keeping rapids up, rotating barriers, spamming purge and AoEs is mindless and stale. I can't do it, I refuse to do it.

Initiate some mechanics to encourage spreading out and build diversity. Put some thought and creativity into the game.

Zyle

Why does this thread even exist? Everyone zergs, including the creator of this thread. Stop the q_q already.

/thread

Morbash

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Not once in any of my posts did I declare that we should continue zerging in hopes that ZOS will do something about it. I simply stated what the root of the problem was and why I think spreading out is an impractical solution. I don’t think it’ll happen because it has yet to happen. It’s been months since ZOS confirmed that their servers can't handle the zergs and NOTHING has changed. Zergs still run rampant.

I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people.

"What the root of the problem was" and "spreading out is an impractical solution". That has absolutely nothing to do with what I developped in my counter-argument and what I've wrote. You still neglect and refuse to believe that the dozen of group leaders out there (in US) have a major impact in the server performances and depending of the actions they take in the course of the battle, they can make the game much better by changing their position on the map. It has started already in EP - Azura Star, why would it be so different for you, sir?

Another major factor that I forgot to mention in my initial post that has nothing to do with what you said, @DeusAres , I have seen plenty of times the past couple weeks AD in Azura Star engaging into a 3ways fight when DC and EP were already part of a 100+ players battle on the screen. It is always the same AD groups doing such a thing and they know who they are. Some of their players even post in these threads and whine about server performance problems as much as we all do but they don't realize that when they bring their 16men aoe spam group into a 100players fight with 2-3 other aoe spam groups already present, the only thing it causes is problems.

My conclusion is : Don't engage into a 3 way fights when there is already too many players present. It is not hard to notice when the server can't take it. You look up at your fps / ms and you get away from there.

Once again, I never said this. You're putting words in my mouth again. I simply stated why I didn't think spreading out was going to work. I have explained my reasoning multiple times. I will not repeat it. I think it would be great if we could stop the zergballs, but I simply don't see it happening. I suggest you go back and objectively read my posts. My position on this topic is very clear.

Dude, don't make it sound like we live on two different planets.

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You say black on white that people are encouraged to zerg because if they see too many players at the same place, they will bring more and that it provoke a vicious circle. But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

And let's put this straight, it doesn't mean that if you hit somewhere else on the map, you will have less fun, will get less AP and will have a harder time. Let's say for example that EP and DC are already in a huge fight happening at Chalman and the server is about to explode. You are a group leader and you wonder if you should go assist Chalman which is about to fall to healing spring spam on the flags or if you should transit to Dragon and hit Aleswell in the meantime, me and EP guilds have done that in the past and it helped out the server while bringing the attention of some DC there, alleviated the latency at Chalman and gave us a ton of AP in the end.

There is no reason to believe that if you see a bigger zerg there, you should bring more players there if the server is already having a hard time. You should be mature enough to spread out and hit deeper in enemy territory, like as I said, people do already in EP on Azura Star. We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Oh and if Zenimax finally decides to remove AOE Caps or to bring back some sort of ultimate regeneration, it will enforce the mentality that we don't necessary need equal or more numbers to crush an enemy group.

But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

So why are there still zergs in all factions and massive lag if people have already started doing this?

We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Then why are there still zergs and lag?

You're preaching to the choir here, bud. I get that the servers can't handle the zergs, and I get that spreading out would improve performance in Cyrodiil. However, there are still zergs in Cyrodiil, so that tells me that spreading out isn't working. Therefore, we need an alternative solution.

Dude, don't make it sound like we live on two different planets.

And what is the purpose of this statement? I don't understand. I don't see any confusion in my posts. My points and reasoning behind them are clearly stated. I guess this confirms that reading comprehension is hard.

Blaqueflame

Yes, groups will still purge and heal, but current game mechanics do not do enough to counter this. Slightly stronger siege would go a long way. Siege that does more damage based on number of targets hit would be ideal. Uncapped proxy det would be nice. Flags should not flip if there is an alive opponent on the flag. Putting multiple holes in a keep to spread out enemy counter siege should be a thing. Currently it isn't because it is more effective to stack up and purge/healing springs through it. Make taking resources more valuable so that smaller groups/ solo players can have an impact. Having to defend more objectives is one way to force players to spread out. The current meta of constantly keeping rapids up, rotating barriers, spamming purge and AoEs is mindless and stale. I can't do it, I refuse to do it.

Initiate some mechanics to encourage spreading out and build diversity. Put some thought and creativity into the game.

I don't disagree at all. It is un-fun to be stuck "keeping rapids up, rotating barriers, spamming purge and AoEs" ... I like strategic play, and rinse repeat engagement is, as you said, "mindless and stale". I can get behind anything that forces groups to have to play more strategically, whether that is player induced, or ZOS induced.

frozywozy

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Not once in any of my posts did I declare that we should continue zerging in hopes that ZOS will do something about it. I simply stated what the root of the problem was and why I think spreading out is an impractical solution. I don’t think it’ll happen because it has yet to happen. It’s been months since ZOS confirmed that their servers can't handle the zergs and NOTHING has changed. Zergs still run rampant.

I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people.

"What the root of the problem was" and "spreading out is an impractical solution". That has absolutely nothing to do with what I developped in my counter-argument and what I've wrote. You still neglect and refuse to believe that the dozen of group leaders out there (in US) have a major impact in the server performances and depending of the actions they take in the course of the battle, they can make the game much better by changing their position on the map. It has started already in EP - Azura Star, why would it be so different for you, sir?

Another major factor that I forgot to mention in my initial post that has nothing to do with what you said, @DeusAres , I have seen plenty of times the past couple weeks AD in Azura Star engaging into a 3ways fight when DC and EP were already part of a 100+ players battle on the screen. It is always the same AD groups doing such a thing and they know who they are. Some of their players even post in these threads and whine about server performance problems as much as we all do but they don't realize that when they bring their 16men aoe spam group into a 100players fight with 2-3 other aoe spam groups already present, the only thing it causes is problems.

My conclusion is : Don't engage into a 3 way fights when there is already too many players present. It is not hard to notice when the server can't take it. You look up at your fps / ms and you get away from there.

Once again, I never said this. You're putting words in my mouth again. I simply stated why I didn't think spreading out was going to work. I have explained my reasoning multiple times. I will not repeat it. I think it would be great if we could stop the zergballs, but I simply don't see it happening. I suggest you go back and objectively read my posts. My position on this topic is very clear.

Dude, don't make it sound like we live on two different planets.

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You say black on white that people are encouraged to zerg because if they see too many players at the same place, they will bring more and that it provoke a vicious circle. But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

And let's put this straight, it doesn't mean that if you hit somewhere else on the map, you will have less fun, will get less AP and will have a harder time. Let's say for example that EP and DC are already in a huge fight happening at Chalman and the server is about to explode. You are a group leader and you wonder if you should go assist Chalman which is about to fall to healing spring spam on the flags or if you should transit to Dragon and hit Aleswell in the meantime, me and EP guilds have done that in the past and it helped out the server while bringing the attention of some DC there, alleviated the latency at Chalman and gave us a ton of AP in the end.

There is no reason to believe that if you see a bigger zerg there, you should bring more players there if the server is already having a hard time. You should be mature enough to spread out and hit deeper in enemy territory, like as I said, people do already in EP on Azura Star. We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Oh and if Zenimax finally decides to remove AOE Caps or to bring back some sort of ultimate regeneration, it will enforce the mentality that we don't necessary need equal or more numbers to crush an enemy group.

But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

So why are there still zergs in all factions and massive lag if people have already started doing this?

We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Then why are there still zergs and lag?

You're preaching to the choir here, bud. I get that the servers can't handle the zergs, and I get that spreading out would improve performance in Cyrodiil. However, there are still zergs in Cyrodiil, so that tells me that spreading out isn't working. Therefore, we need an alternative solution.

Hey you know what? Keep zerging. On my side of the planet, I will keep spreading out with my folks and we will make this game better with or without your assistance.

Have a nice day.

Morbash

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Not once in any of my posts did I declare that we should continue zerging in hopes that ZOS will do something about it. I simply stated what the root of the problem was and why I think spreading out is an impractical solution. I don’t think it’ll happen because it has yet to happen. It’s been months since ZOS confirmed that their servers can't handle the zergs and NOTHING has changed. Zergs still run rampant.

I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people.

"What the root of the problem was" and "spreading out is an impractical solution". That has absolutely nothing to do with what I developped in my counter-argument and what I've wrote. You still neglect and refuse to believe that the dozen of group leaders out there (in US) have a major impact in the server performances and depending of the actions they take in the course of the battle, they can make the game much better by changing their position on the map. It has started already in EP - Azura Star, why would it be so different for you, sir?

Another major factor that I forgot to mention in my initial post that has nothing to do with what you said, @DeusAres , I have seen plenty of times the past couple weeks AD in Azura Star engaging into a 3ways fight when DC and EP were already part of a 100+ players battle on the screen. It is always the same AD groups doing such a thing and they know who they are. Some of their players even post in these threads and whine about server performance problems as much as we all do but they don't realize that when they bring their 16men aoe spam group into a 100players fight with 2-3 other aoe spam groups already present, the only thing it causes is problems.

My conclusion is : Don't engage into a 3 way fights when there is already too many players present. It is not hard to notice when the server can't take it. You look up at your fps / ms and you get away from there.

Once again, I never said this. You're putting words in my mouth again. I simply stated why I didn't think spreading out was going to work. I have explained my reasoning multiple times. I will not repeat it. I think it would be great if we could stop the zergballs, but I simply don't see it happening. I suggest you go back and objectively read my posts. My position on this topic is very clear.

Dude, don't make it sound like we live on two different planets.

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You say black on white that people are encouraged to zerg because if they see too many players at the same place, they will bring more and that it provoke a vicious circle. But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

And let's put this straight, it doesn't mean that if you hit somewhere else on the map, you will have less fun, will get less AP and will have a harder time. Let's say for example that EP and DC are already in a huge fight happening at Chalman and the server is about to explode. You are a group leader and you wonder if you should go assist Chalman which is about to fall to healing spring spam on the flags or if you should transit to Dragon and hit Aleswell in the meantime, me and EP guilds have done that in the past and it helped out the server while bringing the attention of some DC there, alleviated the latency at Chalman and gave us a ton of AP in the end.

There is no reason to believe that if you see a bigger zerg there, you should bring more players there if the server is already having a hard time. You should be mature enough to spread out and hit deeper in enemy territory, like as I said, people do already in EP on Azura Star. We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Oh and if Zenimax finally decides to remove AOE Caps or to bring back some sort of ultimate regeneration, it will enforce the mentality that we don't necessary need equal or more numbers to crush an enemy group.

But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

So why are there still zergs in all factions and massive lag if people have already started doing this?

We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Then why are there still zergs and lag?

You're preaching to the choir here, bud. I get that the servers can't handle the zergs, and I get that spreading out would improve performance in Cyrodiil. However, there are still zergs in Cyrodiil, so that tells me that spreading out isn't working. Therefore, we need an alternative solution.

Hey you know what? Keep zerging. On my side of the planet, I will keep spreading out with my folks and we will make this game better with or without your assistance.

Have a nice day.

Are you being serious right now? Have you not read a word I've posted? It's like you're in your own little bubble with your fingers in your ears chanting "blah blah blah" and hearing what you want to hear. Please tell me you're trolling. Surely no one can be this oblivious.

I don't see a reasonable discussion to be had from people making wild accusations, so I'll bid you a good day as well. Have a good one.

GRxKnight

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Not once in any of my posts did I declare that we should continue zerging in hopes that ZOS will do something about it. I simply stated what the root of the problem was and why I think spreading out is an impractical solution. I don’t think it’ll happen because it has yet to happen. It’s been months since ZOS confirmed that their servers can't handle the zergs and NOTHING has changed. Zergs still run rampant.

I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people.

"What the root of the problem was" and "spreading out is an impractical solution". That has absolutely nothing to do with what I developped in my counter-argument and what I've wrote. You still neglect and refuse to believe that the dozen of group leaders out there (in US) have a major impact in the server performances and depending of the actions they take in the course of the battle, they can make the game much better by changing their position on the map. It has started already in EP - Azura Star, why would it be so different for you, sir?

Another major factor that I forgot to mention in my initial post that has nothing to do with what you said, @DeusAres , I have seen plenty of times the past couple weeks AD in Azura Star engaging into a 3ways fight when DC and EP were already part of a 100+ players battle on the screen. It is always the same AD groups doing such a thing and they know who they are. Some of their players even post in these threads and whine about server performance problems as much as we all do but they don't realize that when they bring their 16men aoe spam group into a 100players fight with 2-3 other aoe spam groups already present, the only thing it causes is problems.

My conclusion is : Don't engage into a 3 way fights when there is already too many players present. It is not hard to notice when the server can't take it. You look up at your fps / ms and you get away from there.

Once again, I never said this. You're putting words in my mouth again. I simply stated why I didn't think spreading out was going to work. I have explained my reasoning multiple times. I will not repeat it. I think it would be great if we could stop the zergballs, but I simply don't see it happening. I suggest you go back and objectively read my posts. My position on this topic is very clear.

Dude, don't make it sound like we live on two different planets.

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You say black on white that people are encouraged to zerg because if they see too many players at the same place, they will bring more and that it provoke a vicious circle. But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

And let's put this straight, it doesn't mean that if you hit somewhere else on the map, you will have less fun, will get less AP and will have a harder time. Let's say for example that EP and DC are already in a huge fight happening at Chalman and the server is about to explode. You are a group leader and you wonder if you should go assist Chalman which is about to fall to healing spring spam on the flags or if you should transit to Dragon and hit Aleswell in the meantime, me and EP guilds have done that in the past and it helped out the server while bringing the attention of some DC there, alleviated the latency at Chalman and gave us a ton of AP in the end.

There is no reason to believe that if you see a bigger zerg there, you should bring more players there if the server is already having a hard time. You should be mature enough to spread out and hit deeper in enemy territory, like as I said, people do already in EP on Azura Star. We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Oh and if Zenimax finally decides to remove AOE Caps or to bring back some sort of ultimate regeneration, it will enforce the mentality that we don't necessary need equal or more numbers to crush an enemy group.

But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

So why are there still zergs in all factions and massive lag if people have already started doing this?

We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Then why are there still zergs and lag?

You're preaching to the choir here, bud. I get that the servers can't handle the zergs, and I get that spreading out would improve performance in Cyrodiil. However, there are still zergs in Cyrodiil, so that tells me that spreading out isn't working. Therefore, we need an alternative solution.

Dude, don't make it sound like we live on two different planets.

So spreading out works yet it isn't working? Please explain that to me, cause I'm pretty sure that spreading out works, however it's the unwillingness of people to spread out that makes it not work. We all know ZOS's game can't handle what they promised out of PvP at this time, and ZOS has even suggested that people spread out as that WOULD alleviate some of the stress on the servers. However the players have chosen to ignore this and instead are sticking really f-ing tight together with 60+ at one spot mindlessly pressing one button and claiming to be good at PvP. So ultimately it falls on the players who choose to play this way when they've been told blatantly and know that this causes performance issues, but hey, gratz to them for wiping players who have significantly less numbers than they do. I'm sure they need all the ego boost they can get.

Joy_Division

You can't expect people to play sub-optimal builds and use sub-optimal strategies in a competitive environment.

I don't know why you keep asking. I don't know why you keep complaining. I don't know why you keep saying WTF is wrong with these people.

Morbash

GRxKnight wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You mix up two key elements in the sentence in bold. You state two different facts.

First fact : The game is designed around zergs.
Second fact : People will zerg because the game is designed around it.

When the game was first released and even before, it is true that they promised hundreds of players on the screen. We all know at this point that they spoke over their head and they never could make it happen because of complexe programming issues that would require to modify the code engine of the game to fix the problem, while costing ton of ressources that obviously, Zenimax can't affort at this point.

Now that we made this clear, your solution is the following :

Because the game encourages zerging since the beginning, people will zerg no matter if it creates performance issues and we should keep going this way until .... until what? Tell me what will zerging do to Zenimax ? Do you hope it will make them change their mind and spend thousand of dollars to fix the engine code? If this is your solution, you are clueless.

Zerging = performance problems = people unhappy = people unsubbing = less ressources = less chances to get this game growing = less chances to get the core problem fixed which is engine code issues.

It is also funny when you include everybody in your affirmation "They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to.". Maybe if you stop being so negative and encourage people to spread out it will come to an happy ending, who knows. There aren't millions of group leaders in this game. I know most of them myself and everyday I encourage them to hit a different location on the map when the numbers get out of control in the same area. People usually listen and aknowledge in EP at least (cheers to SOTP and Pact Militia). If all known and trustful players out there influence guild/group leaders of their own faction to spread out when needed, I'm pretty sure we will come to something "playable" that will encourage people to keep subbing and bringing ressources to Zenimax to make this game better. Not the other way around, never.

Not once in any of my posts did I declare that we should continue zerging in hopes that ZOS will do something about it. I simply stated what the root of the problem was and why I think spreading out is an impractical solution. I don’t think it’ll happen because it has yet to happen. It’s been months since ZOS confirmed that their servers can't handle the zergs and NOTHING has changed. Zergs still run rampant.

I guess reading comprehension is hard for some people.

"What the root of the problem was" and "spreading out is an impractical solution". That has absolutely nothing to do with what I developped in my counter-argument and what I've wrote. You still neglect and refuse to believe that the dozen of group leaders out there (in US) have a major impact in the server performances and depending of the actions they take in the course of the battle, they can make the game much better by changing their position on the map. It has started already in EP - Azura Star, why would it be so different for you, sir?

Another major factor that I forgot to mention in my initial post that has nothing to do with what you said, @DeusAres , I have seen plenty of times the past couple weeks AD in Azura Star engaging into a 3ways fight when DC and EP were already part of a 100+ players battle on the screen. It is always the same AD groups doing such a thing and they know who they are. Some of their players even post in these threads and whine about server performance problems as much as we all do but they don't realize that when they bring their 16men aoe spam group into a 100players fight with 2-3 other aoe spam groups already present, the only thing it causes is problems.

My conclusion is : Don't engage into a 3 way fights when there is already too many players present. It is not hard to notice when the server can't take it. You look up at your fps / ms and you get away from there.

Once again, I never said this. You're putting words in my mouth again. I simply stated why I didn't think spreading out was going to work. I have explained my reasoning multiple times. I will not repeat it. I think it would be great if we could stop the zergballs, but I simply don't see it happening. I suggest you go back and objectively read my posts. My position on this topic is very clear.

Dude, don't make it sound like we live on two different planets.

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

`

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

No, it's "How dare they advertise a game that CANNOT be played the way they intended!"

Again, they're so engrossed in this vision of theirs as to how they game should be played, yet they can't seem to realize that vision, that vision is unplayable. @Cinnamon_Spider is right, wtf is wrong with those people. Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

In its current state it's unplayable, but that doesn't mean it can never be played this way. We need optimization. Easier said than done, I know, but it CAN be done. "Can't never did anything."

Winning, while paramount, can be achieved in other ways than simply accepting defeat and resorting to a map call.

And this doesn't make any sense. How can you achieve victory if you never unite to overcome your enemies?

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

DeusAres wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I only have one thing to say to all of the people in the huge groups on Azuras. WTF is wrong with you people?

Yeah! How dare we play the game the way it was intended!

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/game-guide/the-alliance-war

Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil. Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited features the largest PvP battles seen in a major online RPG. The game supports hundreds of onscreen players in epic battles. Swords and axes collide, spells and powers illuminate the ground and sky, and fires rage on embattled stronghold walls. Will you survive these epic battles? Can your overwhelming force take the keep, or will you be forced to retreat?

The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is built to accommodate hundreds of players onscreen at once.

Because it doesn't work when played "as intended." It never has. And when you get every single person from one faction in the same place, the game goes to absolute garbage. And it always has. Yet people still get in these huge ball groups and make the game unplayable. And they make it not fun.

So, I ask again. WTF is wrong with you people?

So what do you suggest? You complain, but you offer no solution to the problem. Spreading out solves the performance issues to an extent, but it does not solve the balancing issues. One faction will always have more players than the opposing faction at any given location. This puts the opposing faction at a statistical disadvantage. Organized zergs are a response to this. The game was designed with zergs in mind. This is why we have zergs. It's a design problem not a "WTF is wrong with you people" problem. People resort to these huge ball groups because it's more effective and safer than yoloing all over Cyrodiil.

Everyone can keep doing what is easier for them, or they can do what is best for the game. What is best is for everyone to not be in the same place. What is best is to not have full groups all stacked on each other spamming AOE while running into another full group doing the same.
When these full groups get together, the game becomes impossible to play.

So, keep playing what is safe and what is easy meanwhile destroying a game that would otherwise be amazing.

All I'm saying is people aren't going to stop. It's effective. People will gravitate toward known methods of success. Like I said, it's a design problem. In order to stop it, ZOS will need to make a change to the game's core design to discourage zergs. I'm all for that change, but as it stands, zergs are the response to the game's current design.

All I'm saying is that people need to stop. They need to make the effort. I don't understand how anyone can think that style of play is effective when you can't use skills, can't swap weapons, can't do jack because of fps drops when you have large groups in an area. That style may have been what was in mind, but it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that it doesn't work for the game and causes more problems for everyone.

I don't know about everyone else, but when the game lags out due to crap like this, I alt f4 and play something else. If everyone did that, then you would have no one to play against. Is that what you want? Is that fun for you?

WTF is wrong with the people that want to play like this?

Yup, guess we'll have to resort to politeness and pleasantries in Cyro from now on.

*Knock knock knock*

"Yeah, whaddya want?"

"Oh, hey broskies, we want this keep here you see, so could you guys step out while we break down your front door?"

I can totally see that working out.

Right. That's exactly what I'm asking for.

It is so completely obvious that you refuse to get the point, or that you simply can't understand it.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I think you're missing the point that the game is designed around zergs. And so long as it's designed around it, people will continue to do it. They're not simply going to stop because you or I want them to. If group A gets squashed by group B, they're gonna say "hey we need more people because group B outnumbered us 3 to 1." So they get more people and they go back and wipe group B. Then group B says "hey we need more people because group A outnumbered us 5 to 1." So they go and recruit more people and the vicious cycle continues.

Once again, zergs are encouraged, and so long as people have incentive to join a zerg they will continue to do so. Therefore, I blame ZOS, not the players. Your proposed solution is like putting a slab of rotten meat in a hungry lion's den and telling the lion not to eat it.

You say black on white that people are encouraged to zerg because if they see too many players at the same place, they will bring more and that it provoke a vicious circle. But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

And let's put this straight, it doesn't mean that if you hit somewhere else on the map, you will have less fun, will get less AP and will have a harder time. Let's say for example that EP and DC are already in a huge fight happening at Chalman and the server is about to explode. You are a group leader and you wonder if you should go assist Chalman which is about to fall to healing spring spam on the flags or if you should transit to Dragon and hit Aleswell in the meantime, me and EP guilds have done that in the past and it helped out the server while bringing the attention of some DC there, alleviated the latency at Chalman and gave us a ton of AP in the end.

There is no reason to believe that if you see a bigger zerg there, you should bring more players there if the server is already having a hard time. You should be mature enough to spread out and hit deeper in enemy territory, like as I said, people do already in EP on Azura Star. We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Oh and if Zenimax finally decides to remove AOE Caps or to bring back some sort of ultimate regeneration, it will enforce the mentality that we don't necessary need equal or more numbers to crush an enemy group.

But in reality, what people SHOULD do and what people STARTED DOING already in EP on Azura Star is when they see too many players already engaging in the same area, they go hit somewhere else. There is no reason for a group leader to go stack where there is already too many players.

So why are there still zergs in all factions and massive lag if people have already started doing this?

We aren't comparing lions who eat meat in their cages, we are talking about humans with some kind of brain to analyse and react appropriately.

Then why are there still zergs and lag?

You're preaching to the choir here, bud. I get that the servers can't handle the zergs, and I get that spreading out would improve performance in Cyrodiil. However, there are still zergs in Cyrodiil, so that tells me that spreading out isn't working. Therefore, we need an alternative solution.

Dude, don't make it sound like we live on two different planets.

So spreading out works yet it isn't working? Please explain that to me, cause I'm pretty sure that spreading out works, however it's the unwillingness of people to spread out that makes it not work. We all know ZOS's game can't handle what they promised out of PvP at this time, and ZOS has even suggested that people spread out as that WOULD alleviate some of the stress on the servers. However the players have chosen to ignore this and instead are sticking really f-ing tight together with 60+ at one spot mindlessly pressing one button and claiming to be good at PvP. So ultimately it falls on the players who choose to play this way when they've been told blatantly and know that this causes performance issues, but hey, gratz to them for wiping players who have significantly less numbers than they do. I'm sure they need all the ego boost they can get.

You just answered your own question.

however it's the unwillingness of people to spread out that makes it not work.

Bingo! A lot of people are unwilling to spread out. The game's current mechanics encourage zerging. This is why people zerg. Should they zerg? No, not if they want performance in Cyro to improve. However, they choose to zerg because it's effective for survival and winning. It's safe. It's secure. Many people will not stray from this so long as being in a zerg retains these benefits. People naturally have a herd mentality.

Do I need to color-code my posts? Would that make it easier for people to read and understand what I've written? It seems people are really struggling.