camo hunter double-proc insta-kills (multiple images)

Xeniph

This is working as intended. A dual wield heavy attack uses 2 weapons.

The internal CD only applies to the 4% (15%) proc chance, not the 100% from stealth (if Undead/Daedra)

As others have said, taking the above into account, a stealth proc+the percentage proc from a DW attack is working as expected.

For more lol's though? Animation cancel that DW heavy attack with a Silver Shards.


While this does indeed mean that a vamp opened on from stealth is usually a one shot, it is by no means unavoidable. There is no need to hash out what vamps could do to mitigate this, it's already all over these forums.

This has always been the case though, nothing new here.

olsborg

If you hit someone from stealth twice within 1 second, cam will be double procced. If I for instance charge heavy bow, then imediately cast silver shards etc or ambush from stealth.

xylena

even if camo hunter is working as intended, the consequence (vampire players being insta-killed by stealth enemies) does not seem like it was intended, which is what we'd like a response from @ZOS on

Tankqull

camo hunter clearly indicates that facing a player with camohunter as a vamp should give you a tough challange otherwise the skill would not have the 100% proc with increased dmg if used from stealth...
use the tools you are given to prevent yourself from beeing attacked by stealthed peoples while fighting another player or abilities reducing the incomming dmg to be not an insta frag or simply stack more life to be able to recover beeing jumped at.
currently beeing a vampire is way to common clearly indicating that its drawbacks are not inline with the powergain being a vampire provides.

ChefZero

Imo the skill is alright cause you need 2 things for the 2nd proc. 1st you must be in hide, 2nd target must be a undead, deadra or werwolf. Also heavy attacks from stealth with DW don't happen often and aren't a standard situation.

Xeniph

ChefZero wrote: »

Imo the skill is alright cause you need 2 things for the 2nd proc. 1st you must be in hide, 2nd target must be a undead, deadra or werwolf. Also heavy attacks from stealth with DW don't happen often and aren't a standard situation.

I agree, it's a risk/reward system and I fully accept insta gibs if I am out stealthed or cought with my pants down. But I enjoy that sort of gameplay /shrug.

As to your last statement though, you clearly are not a ganker, because heavy attacks are the bread and butter of ganking.

ChefZero

Xeniph wrote: »

As to your last statement though, you clearly are not a ganker, because heavy attacks are the bread and butter of ganking.

Nope, ganking is to boring compared to this:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/225834/video-4-magickablades-squad#latest

Heavy attacks are also my bread and butter. On Restro use it more than any ganker could.

Johngo0036

I have always used camo hunter as one of my buffs as a NB,
Rally,
Camo Hunter,
Relentless Focus,

Do a heavy attack with bow,
dont release the button,
Press silver shard button and both release together,

INSTA NUKE

revonine

Yeah this has happened to me a few times already. Just recently I got double procc-ed by a wrecking blow + light attack from stealth. I'm really tempted to drop vampire as much as i love it and it sucks because we're the only players getting consistently one shotted anymore. That's a damn massive disadvantage in this updates landscape

Angarato

how many crying threads are you going to make @xylena its getting sad. just drop vampire and stop being bad. good templars arr scary as ***

Docmandu

revonine wrote: »

Yeah this has happened to me a few times already. Just recently I got double procc-ed by a wrecking blow + light attack from stealth. I'm really tempted to drop vampire as much as i love it and it sucks because we're the only players getting consistently one shotted anymore. That's a damn massive disadvantage in this updates landscape

But to be fair, vampire comes with some nice benefits / perks too.

Not that I'm advocating the 1/2-shot meta.. that's just not fun, not getting any time to actually play and counter.

Angarato

they need to fix the double proc but other than that the ability is fine.

Tankqull

Angarato wrote: »

they need to fix the double proc but other than that the ability is fine.

the possible double proc is the purpose of that skill...

it boils down to one thing: if you do not like the vamp drawbacks - don´t be one.

xylena

how many crying threads are you going to make @xylena its getting sad. just drop vampire and stop being bad. good templars arr scary as ***

[potato]

i'd like to know if being 1-shotted by invisible spuds is an intended drawback of playing vamp in pvp, that's all... i guess we'll all have so much more fun when i go back to spamming 12k wrecking blows on my human stam dk, because a bunch of prissy gankers who failed out of CoD sniper school flapped their flabby gums when their 1-shot kills were threatened

Tankqull

well as long as 90% of the cyrodiil population are vamps even oneshoting them seems to be not enough of a drawback otherwise they would drop being a vamp. wich in return would make those abilities less desireable as they work only against a "small" fraction of the pvp-com and are pretty useless against non vamps.

ChefZero

xylena wrote: »

i'd like to know if being 1-shotted by invisible spuds is an intended drawback of playing vamp in pvp, that's all... i guess we'll all have so much more fun when i go back to spamming 12k wrecking blows on my human stam dk, because a bunch of prissy gankers who failed out of CoD sniper school flapped their flabby gums when their 1-shot kills were threatened

Of course, that's it how this game works. Drawbacks in a game without Cooldowns and much min/maxing shouldn't be underestimated.

cazlonb16_ESO

Fine, give my Templar some mobility and I'll cure Vampirism immediately. I'd rather do without it anyway, but currently that's just not a viable option.

eliisra

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Fine, give my Templar some mobility and I'll cure Vampirism immediately. I'd rather do without it anyway, but currently that's just not a viable option.

You really have no choice right now as a magicka templar. You have to cure.

Play vamp and you get instagibbed as soon as you leave the keep lol. Everyone abusing Camo Hunter like mad atm, little ash piles all over the place from people exploding in half a second, threads like this makes it even more popular lol.

I had to cure vamp and now have 0 mobility, 0 chance to survive anything if using light armor and therefore forced to play in groups with Rapid Maneuvre bot + cross healing. It sucks to PvP.

At least in 1.6 I could keep Blazing Shield up against sneak attacks and Camo Hunters didn't proc 5000000000 times in a row. Now with Blazing Shield only giving like 3k you have 0 mele defence and of course no more Mist Form. All these sweeping changes and bad designs, always ends up *** up templars.

Stigant

Camo hunter DW Heavy attack double proc has one (but only) simple counter ... Radiant Magelight ... If you wanna stay Vampire, I'd suggest to use it, if you don't want to use it get rid of Vampirism...

P.S.: Regardless what I said above, I also agree that after all the effort ZOS put into slowing TTK in PvP, there should not be a method how to oneshot people, especially from stealth

P.P.S.: I built my NB to do that (althought she's a vamp herself) and it became boring in like half an hour of playing ... being able to oneshot other players just doesn't feel fair very much.

revonine

Docmandu wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Yeah this has happened to me a few times already. Just recently I got double procc-ed by a wrecking blow + light attack from stealth. I'm really tempted to drop vampire as much as i love it and it sucks because we're the only players getting consistently one shotted anymore. That's a damn massive disadvantage in this updates landscape

But to be fair, vampire comes with some nice benefits / perks too.

Not that I'm advocating the 1/2-shot meta.. that's just not fun, not getting any time to actually play and counter.

I've taken the cure and became a vamp hunter. No camo hunter though, pulling people off keeps with silver leash is much more fun :P

Gunphu

If you read the tooltip it says 100% chance for 5 fiqure damage from stealth and a % to do 4 fiqure damage. Meaning it can hit you twice and why one number is always substantially smaller than the other. The larger number always happens from stealth and the smaller one can happen any attack. This why it shows up twice. It has nothing to do with duel wield. One of your screen shots shows what im talking about with a bow heavy attack.

Evil hunter only gives the chance for 1 proc for 4 figure tooltip damage and why you only ever see one proc of it on your death tooltip.

So basically you're asking for them to completely change the morph. OR you can just not be a vamp. I garuntee constant one shots even if they make it a stealth only proc. as per your first screen shot. A good DB of smiting can one shot some vamps.


Just realized this was stated multiple times.

Master_Kas

Gunphu wrote: »

If you read the tooltip it says 100% chance for 5 fiqure damage from stealth and a % to do 4 fiqure damage. Meaning it can hit you twice and why one number is always substantially smaller than the other. The larger number always happens from stealth and the smaller one can happen any attack. This why it shows up twice. It has nothing to do with duel wield. One of your screen shots shows what im talking about with a bow heavy attack.

Evil hunter only gives the chance for 1 proc for 4 figure tooltip damage and why you only ever see one proc of it on your death tooltip.

So basically you're asking for them to completely change the morph. OR you can just not be a vamp. I garuntee constant one shots even if they make it a stealth only proc. as per your first screen shot. A good DB of smiting can one shot some vamps.


Just realized this was stated multiple times.

Wrong on one part;
Heavy dw attack from sneak on vamp player will always get 2x the proc of the "100% xxxxx bonus damage on undead from sneak".

Can show you videos of it, and no it's not one smaller + one bigger.

FTC says the same damage Lets say 4.7k (X2)

Same can be Done with focused aim + ambush, or focused aim+silver shards/poison inj.

Tough you need to time it right so both counts as a stealth hit.

Heavy DW attacks always does this tough since it's instant and counts as two attacks.

I get some clips and PM You Link tomorrow if you have Any doubts.

Ara_Valleria

xylena wrote: »

how many crying threads are you going to make @xylena its getting sad. just drop vampire and stop being bad. good templars arr scary as ***

[potato]

i'd like to know if being 1-shotted by invisible spuds is an intended drawback of playing vamp in pvp, that's all... i guess we'll all have so much more fun when i go back to spamming 12k wrecking blows on my human stam dk, because a bunch of prissy gankers who failed out of CoD sniper school flapped their flabby gums when their 1-shot kills were threatened

This made my day
Love you @xylena

Gunphu

Master_Kas wrote: »

Gunphu wrote: »

If you read the tooltip it says 100% chance for 5 fiqure damage from stealth and a % to do 4 fiqure damage. Meaning it can hit you twice and why one number is always substantially smaller than the other. The larger number always happens from stealth and the smaller one can happen any attack. This why it shows up twice. It has nothing to do with duel wield. One of your screen shots shows what im talking about with a bow heavy attack.

Evil hunter only gives the chance for 1 proc for 4 figure tooltip damage and why you only ever see one proc of it on your death tooltip.

So basically you're asking for them to completely change the morph. OR you can just not be a vamp. I garuntee constant one shots even if they make it a stealth only proc. as per your first screen shot. A good DB of smiting can one shot some vamps.


Just realized this was stated multiple times.

Wrong on one part;
Heavy dw attack from sneak on vamp player will always get 2x the proc of the "100% xxxxx bonus damage on undead from sneak".

Can show you videos of it, and no it's not one smaller + one bigger.

FTC says the same damage Lets say 4.7k (X2)

Same can be Done with focused aim + ambush, or focused aim+silver shards/poison inj.

Tough you need to time it right so both counts as a stealth hit.

Heavy DW attacks always does this tough since it's instant and counts as two attacks.

I get some clips and PM You Link tomorrow if you have Any doubts.

Console player so I do not have FTC. Only the experience of being one shot a dozen times per day because im a vamp. Ive only ever seen the two that I stated in my death recap. But regardless i generally get insta killed by any stealth attack combo (2H or 1H) if CH is involved.

Im not complaining about CH though. A strong counter to vamp and WW needs to exist. And ive yet to experience the double initial proc and these screen shots DO NOT show one either.

Docmandu

Stigant wrote: »

P.P.S.: I built my NB to do that (althought she's a vamp herself) and it became boring in like half an hour of playing ... being able to oneshot other players just doesn't feel fair very much.

Apparently, some people only play when they can do that.. wonder if those people aren't better off playing UT instagib.

It's not "healthy" for the game in the long run.. nobody likes getting killed with 0% chance of countering... but it's a bit like in other games where you have max levels going to lowbie zones to instagib the lowbies, who have no chance whatsoever to counter.

Some people play for the fun of PvP and others play for the fun of harassing / annoying other players. Sad truth, but nothing in the world will ever change that.

Tankqull

Master_Kas wrote: »

Gunphu wrote: »

If you read the tooltip it says 100% chance for 5 fiqure damage from stealth and a % to do 4 fiqure damage. Meaning it can hit you twice and why one number is always substantially smaller than the other. The larger number always happens from stealth and the smaller one can happen any attack. This why it shows up twice. It has nothing to do with duel wield. One of your screen shots shows what im talking about with a bow heavy attack.

Evil hunter only gives the chance for 1 proc for 4 figure tooltip damage and why you only ever see one proc of it on your death tooltip.

So basically you're asking for them to completely change the morph. OR you can just not be a vamp. I garuntee constant one shots even if they make it a stealth only proc. as per your first screen shot. A good DB of smiting can one shot some vamps.


Just realized this was stated multiple times.

Wrong on one part;
Heavy dw attack from sneak on vamp player will always get 2x the proc of the "100% xxxxx bonus damage on undead from sneak".

Can show you videos of it, and no it's not one smaller + one bigger.

FTC says the same damage Lets say 4.7k (X2)

Same can be Done with focused aim + ambush, or focused aim+silver shards/poison inj.

Tough you need to time it right so both counts as a stealth hit.

Heavy DW attacks always does this tough since it's instant and counts as two attacks.

I get some clips and PM You Link tomorrow if you have Any doubts.

FTC is a horrible indicator here as it only displays the first proc dmg value und stack all "same named" (regarding its attack DB- attacks within a given time frame) and it does not even differ between the two proc names....
use CLS in this regard and you´ll see that the double proc on DW is allways (atleast for me) the guaranteed proc + the 15% chance proc on the off hand. and because of that behaviour it does not allways double proc. (as you aswell can see by the pics in this thread.)

Master_Kas

Tankqull wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Gunphu wrote: »

If you read the tooltip it says 100% chance for 5 fiqure damage from stealth and a % to do 4 fiqure damage. Meaning it can hit you twice and why one number is always substantially smaller than the other. The larger number always happens from stealth and the smaller one can happen any attack. This why it shows up twice. It has nothing to do with duel wield. One of your screen shots shows what im talking about with a bow heavy attack.

Evil hunter only gives the chance for 1 proc for 4 figure tooltip damage and why you only ever see one proc of it on your death tooltip.

So basically you're asking for them to completely change the morph. OR you can just not be a vamp. I garuntee constant one shots even if they make it a stealth only proc. as per your first screen shot. A good DB of smiting can one shot some vamps.


Just realized this was stated multiple times.

Wrong on one part;
Heavy dw attack from sneak on vamp player will always get 2x the proc of the "100% xxxxx bonus damage on undead from sneak".

Can show you videos of it, and no it's not one smaller + one bigger.

FTC says the same damage Lets say 4.7k (X2)

Same can be Done with focused aim + ambush, or focused aim+silver shards/poison inj.

Tough you need to time it right so both counts as a stealth hit.

Heavy DW attacks always does this tough since it's instant and counts as two attacks.

I get some clips and PM You Link tomorrow if you have Any doubts.

FTC is a horrible indicator here as it only displays the first proc dmg value und stack all "same named" (regarding its attack DB- attacks within a given time frame) and it does not even differ between the two proc names....
use CLS in this regard and you´ll see that the double proc on DW is allways (atleast for me) the guaranteed proc + the 15% chance proc on the off hand. and because of that behaviour it does not allways double proc. (as you aswell can see by the pics in this thread.)

They show as diffrent / separate procs on death recaps. Take a look at the second , and the last picture.

The one with the heavy DW attack states 12k+ damage, which is from two procs of the 100% from sneak on undead.

How can you explain then that I always get 2 proccs of camo hunter with heavy DW attack on vamps?

Not 100% + 15% , that wouldn't procc two times all the time on vamps.

When I do this with my bow it often fails thanks to both hits not landing at the same time and results in one proc, sometimes another with lower damage.

With DW heavy attack its always doubleproc on vamps, no exceptions (unless they run RML aka I cannot sneak near them).

And they both do the same damage (this I see with CLS. :P

Anyway I find it very annoying since my main is a vamp, and I think it deserves to get looked at atleast. They wanted to remove the fast TTK that was in 1.6, then this shouln't be possible even vs vamps.

xylena

so is it intended for

(1) the stealth proc to ignore 2.5s cooldown

(2) this ability to enable you to insta-gib vamps in pvp (something zos has nerfed in the past)

DeanTheCat

I think the reason why ZOS never bothered to implement a cooldown for the stealth Camo Hunter in the first place is because your first attack will theoretically take you out of stealth on paper, rendering further procs impossible.

However, in practice, this proc can consistently proc multiple times due to the in built latency tolerances to render the game (barely) playable to higher ping players, so the actual window of a stealth attack is T = x to T = x + 0.49, where x is when the initial attack connects. This allows in practice multiple hits on a target within the window of opportunity provided by the latency tolerance.

However, Dual Wield Heavy Attacks is a rather tricky thing. The attack does not do consistent damage across a variety of ranges. The main hand weapon has a reach of 6 meters, while the off hand weapon only has a reach of 4.5 meters. Also, there is a "Blind Spot" in the Main Hand attack, that any target within 2.5 meters of you will not get full damage from the Main Hand attack. This means that the "Sweet Spot" in using a Dual Wield Heavy Attack is between 2.5 meters and 4.5 meters, where you'll get both weapons to hit and do consistent damage. In addition, the usage of a dagger will skew the values, as a dagger reduces the reach of the weapon by 1 meter.

To get a double Camo Hunter proc from a Dual Wield Heavy Attack, you will need to land both hits in the "Sweet Spot" range. Failing to land the hit within this range will only result in a single Camo Proc with the 15% chance to proc a second lower damage proc. This is why you will notice some inconsistency in your Dual Wield Heavy Attacks from stealth.

Also, the variance in range between the swings of a Dual Wield attack is the reason why Movement Speed is so important to a Dual Wielding fighter. No other weapon type in the game suffers from this variance in attack range.

Destruction Staff: 28m Reach
Restoration Staff: 28m Reach
Bow: 28m Reach
Two Handed Weapons: 7m Reach
Sword and Shield: 5.5m Reach
Dagger and Shield: 4.5m Reach
Dual Wield (Main Hand): 6m Reach
Dual Wield (Main Hand Dagger): 5m Reach
Dual Wield (Off Hand): 4.5m Reach
Dual Wield (Off Hand Dagger): 3.5m Reach

Vangy

Sir dk the vamp scum hunter checking in,

Camo hunter ftw. Look at all these sweet vamp tears. *glug glug glug*
To all vamp hunters rolling QQ 1 shot builds have yer fun before we get nerfed. Hurry!