camo hunter double-proc insta-kills (multiple images)

xylena

seems to happen consistently against my vamplar from stealth DW attacks and possibly a stealth bow attack with wep enchant (?)







@ZOS please stop giving even more free damage to stealth spuds and 1-button facerollers, i literally cannot remember the last death recap that didn't have either surprise attack or camo hunter on it... there are more hit-n-run cheez stamblades now than there ever were perma-block 1.5 dks... these opponents are no issue for my face-tanking WB-spamming stam dk, so don't go full potato and assume that skill is any factor here, this is about addressing class imbalance in pvp, which is currently very poor (in 1.6 at least anyone could insta-kill anyone, now that trash is reserved for like 2-3 class/build combos)

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

I made a thread about this a few weeks ago. Basically, both dw hits from stealth trigger the camo hunter. This procc does not trigger the internal cooldown, so you can get a third hit right after it.

xylena

these death recaps all followed me dropping dead before any animation or sound effect could even play on my client, at 130 ping... would really like to see pvp have more dimensions than just ganking and zerging, but the mechanics are doing a pretty good job limiting it to just that

OrphanHelgen

looks like you should drop vampire
Prismatic weapon I believe is the hajeko essence rune enchant on weapon.

xylena

@r.jan did zos acknowledge this bug? they pretty drastically changed the pvp mechanics to stop this exact kind of insta-kill nonsense, right now all that looks like is wasted effort...

camo hunter belongs on pve dps builds and vampire hunter RPers, not giving free no-effort damage to every cheezball in pvp (in exchange for a bar slot, which encourages less ability variety and even more spamming)

xylena

"drop vampire" is a band-aid, not a fix... last year ZOS changed the mechanics of silver shards so vampire players would no longer be insta-killed, here's hoping they change expert hunter in a similar way (not so much a nerf as simply spreading the damage out over time instead of in one dumb burst)

Tankqull

xylena wrote: »

@r.jan did zos acknowledge this bug? they pretty drastically changed the pvp mechanics to stop this exact kind of insta-kill nonsense, right now all that looks like is wasted effort...

camo hunter belongs on pve dps builds and vampire hunter RPers, not giving free no-effort damage to every cheezball in pvp (in exchange for a bar slot, which encourages less ability variety and even more spamming)

drop your vampirism and you have no problem as the guarnteed proc from stealth wont be applied to you.

ican say aswell, vampirism belongst to RP chars in carebareland and not into pvp

WillhelmBlack

xylena wrote: »

these death recaps all followed me dropping dead before any animation or sound effect could even play on my client, at 130 ping... would really like to see pvp have more dimensions than just ganking and zerging, but the mechanics are doing a pretty good job limiting it to just that

This.

I was literally full bar health and dropping dead around Cyrodiil over and over. I dropped vamp and the last session I had was 175 kills to 5 deaths. Either Vamp or Camo is bugged.

xylena

again, this isn't about my build or whether i want my templar to be a vampire or not... it's that expert hunter is either not working as intended, or is incredibly badly designed, because bottom line is that invisible insta-kills make for bad pvp (and i'm pretty sure ZOS agrees on that one)

Derra

Tankqull wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

@r.jan did zos acknowledge this bug? they pretty drastically changed the pvp mechanics to stop this exact kind of insta-kill nonsense, right now all that looks like is wasted effort...

camo hunter belongs on pve dps builds and vampire hunter RPers, not giving free no-effort damage to every cheezball in pvp (in exchange for a bar slot, which encourages less ability variety and even more spamming)

drop your vampirism and you have no problem as the guarnteed proc from stealth wont be applied to you.

ican say aswell, vampirism belongst to RP chars in carebareland and not into pvp

Problem is camo hunter will still proc on non vampires.

Tankqull

camouflaged hunter is working as expected - the other morphs are unable to multiproc.
comming from stealth you have one guaranteed proc (with even increased dmg value) if that attack is a fully! charged dualwield heavy attack (other wise you do not get the double attack to proc two times) and the mainhand hit was not calculated to be a normal proc overwritten by the "special" proc (as it then sets a reproc timer denying the offhand proc) you have a 15% chance to proc a second hunter (0.85*0.15=0,1275 =~13% chance to get an "instant" kill) against vamps and mophed WWs.

so what does that mean for you and what are your options:
1. drop vampirism as allready mentioned and get your mobility by another ability
2. fight within any type of pulsing/triggered aoe [caltrops, blazing spear (as you are a templar), mines , etc...] to supress the guaranteed proc from stealth as those ae´s drop your attacker out of stealth
3. use stealth detection abilities - they are meh but atleast in this situation RML keeps you alive to react under this circumstances

eliisra

We all know you can cure vampire in Mages Guild Hall in Riften, Reaper’s March or Bangkorai lol.

We want to know whether these multiproc's are indented or not. The skill is suppose to have a 2.5 sec cooldown.

I would like to know if indented that the price of vampire is getting instakilled by any sneak attack, because of Camouflage Hunter.

That is all.

xylena

@Tankqull it means nothing to my stam dk, these fotm cheezers are speedbumps on the WB spam train... but i get bored of facerolling and want to try a different style (vamp) and class (templar) only to get 1-shotted every time i leave the blob? that doesn't make me want to improve my build or tactics, that makes me want to uh... not pvp anymore

xylena

We all know you can cure vampire in Mages Guild Hall in Riften, Reaper’s March or Bangkorai lol.

We want to know whether these multiproc's are indented or not. The skill is suppose to have a 2.5 sec cooldown.

I would like to know if indented that the price of vampire is getting instakilled by any sneak attack, because of Camouflage Hunter.

That is all.

@eliisra thank you for this, what i'm trying to say but haven't been able to articulate nearly as well

jhharvest

Tankqull wrote: »

3. use stealth detection abilities - they are meh but atleast in this situation RML keeps you alive to react under this circumstances

Magelight radius is so short that I've actually had people still hit me with this from stealth even when I have it up. I also play a templar and I haven't been able to figure out any other escape abilities that would work, except for Clouding swarm. Immunity in Retreating maneuver seems to be broken.

eliisra

xylena wrote: »

We all know you can cure vampire in Mages Guild Hall in Riften, Reaper’s March or Bangkorai lol.

We want to know whether these multiproc's are indented or not. The skill is suppose to have a 2.5 sec cooldown.

I would like to know if indented that the price of vampire is getting instakilled by any sneak attack, because of Camouflage Hunter.

That is all.

@eliisra thank you for this, what i'm trying to say but haven't been able to articulate nearly as well

Thanks for making the thread and collecting screen shots. Most people I play with already had to cure vampire, because of recent Camo Hunter instakills.

Really want is a simple response from @ZOS_BrianWheeler , @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert or whoever can tell me the deal here.

Are we suppose to not play vampire in PvP now, because always instakilled by sneak attacks?

Would like to know since it affects my templars build + gear a lot.

timidobserver

xylena wrote: »

We all know you can cure vampire in Mages Guild Hall in Riften, Reaper’s March or Bangkorai lol.

We want to know whether these multiproc's are indented or not. The skill is suppose to have a 2.5 sec cooldown.

I would like to know if indented that the price of vampire is getting instakilled by any sneak attack, because of Camouflage Hunter.

That is all.

@eliisra thank you for this, what i'm trying to say but haven't been able to articulate nearly as well

I agree. I would like to know if it is working as intended as well. A one word yes or no answer from ZOS would suffice.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

melodeath

dont know about a double proccing bug as your first screenshot only shows 1 since prismatic is the new weapon enchant.

but i do know that theres another bug that if you kill a few undead/daedra than your camo will stack up to above 4000 days.
i reported it but seeing as i use camo hunter 24/7 i know out of experience that it doesnt proc all the time.

but than again.. i'm still living in the mindset of..if you're a vamp than you should be alot more carefull in pvp.

everyone has alot more resistance and the fire damage taken got nerfed meaning that the only downside to that skill tree is the fighters guild skill tree. wich to me seems quite reasonable.

and im a vamp that gets oneshotted aswell but i can live with that since i knew that those things would happen once i got bitten.

melodeath

actually now that im thinking about it..

their actually is a bug but it doesnt really have much to do with camo hunter but with stealth attacks in general.

1:if you have enough damage and you do a stealth attack on a mob (oneshotting it) than you will remain in stealth..
2: if you charge up a stealth heavy attack and immediatly do a suprise attack than the suprise attack will still end up as if it was used from stealth and ends up stunning the target.
meaning that if you use heavy attack first and an abbility after (without even having to animation cancel it) you will end up with 2 stealth attacks thus having 2 camo procs since stealth procs against vamps have 100%

pretty sure thats whats causing it.

Force-Siphon

HAHAHAHA these ppl trying to tell Xy how to play...rich. Camo hunter should really just be deleted from the game. Vamp synergizes really well with Templar the fact that people feel like it's not even an option bc of bads stealth potating around cyrodiil is really stupid. You always know who they are too bc when you pop them with a detect pot they start freaking out and running away while you dps them to death from behind bc they don't know how to fight back. Some of the best stamblades i know don't even rely simply on camo hunter procs and will try to face roll you when popped.

I honestly hope that 2 shotting ppl is gone soon so we can all actually start fighting each other and relying on skill to counter other builds instead of people not even getting the chance to fight back.

Alucardo

If camo hunter didn't exist, I'd make every one of my characters a Vampire. This is why camo hunter needs to stay - there needs to be a reason to make people think twice.
If there is a bug causing it to proc twice, then that obviously needs to be fixed though.

ChefZero

Of course Camouflaged Hunter can proc twice cause it have one guaranteed proc and one probable proc. They are not contiguous.

Waffennacht

How or why is there guaranteed proc for cam? I haven't seen an ability that guarantees it to proc, it doesn't say it on the move itself... what am I missing?

ChefZero

If you in stealth one proc is guaranteed.

Yiko

I don't want get into balancing too much.. but from a design perspective, doesn't 10-15k+ Camo Hunter dmg from stealth on top of the other attack used to trigger the proc seem supremely excessive & absurd? The advantage of stealth should be stealth itself - NOT 3 or so crits leading to an insta-gib.

100% chance to proc on vampires.
4% chance to proc on non-vamps. - WHY is this here? Why have extremely low proc percentages with high returns? Where do you draw the line? 1% chance on hit to deal 10k dmg?

Yes, ZOS has mentioned that Werewolf and Vamp are to have drawbacks, but Camo Hunter exacerbates the stealth burst issue to the point that there isn't room for intelligible play on either party's end.

IMO Camo Hunter should just be a buff that gives you a static % dmg buff against undead for X amount of time, but I'd like to hear other opinions on the matter.

eliisra

ChefZero wrote: »

If you in stealth one proc is guaranteed.

Problem is you can get 2 proc's of from sneak on vamps, if you're fast with fingers or macro. Than a bloody third one if lucky 20% rng on vamps. Last couple of weeks I had 3+ Camo Hunters on death recap on a daily basis.

One Camo Hunter proc already does insane dmg, had over 15k hits, enough to instakill any vamp when combined with normal sneak attack. Especially if user has enough CP to start investing in Thaumaturge. Than you get hit with 3, it's like pointless even dreaming of surviving unless rocking 50k health.

Also seems to proc way more often than 4% on non vamps. I did cure my vamps because of this *** mechanic making it impossible to PvP as undead. But still getting gibbed by Camo Hunter(not as frequently of course).

Master_Kas

Any class using a stamina build can instakill vampires with heavy DW attack (or snipe + small heavy attack)

This is an issue with camo/evil hunter. Nerf/fix this skill and you won't see these cheesy instakills anymore.

Btw this only works on vamps, the 4% chance to proc on normal humans / wolves in human form is almost non existant.

SRIBES

@xylena Idk if I told you but I do this on "my" EP nightblade. One duel wield heavy attack counts as two attacks so it will double proc camo hunter, Prismatic glyph on one weapon and weapon damage on the other and use surprise attack right after. Stack full damage and you can still pull 2k stamina recovery while being over 4k weapon damage and 30k stamina with like 260 CP. The worst part is, it is extremely viable 1v1/1vX if geared properly. Broken.

Tankqull

eliisra wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

If you in stealth one proc is guaranteed.

Problem is you can get 2 proc's of from sneak on vamps, if you're fast with fingers or macro. Than a bloody third one if lucky 20% rng on vamps. Last couple of weeks I had 3+ Camo Hunters on death recap on a daily basis.

One Camo Hunter proc already does insane dmg, had over 15k hits, enough to instakill any vamp when combined with normal sneak attack. Especially if user has enough CP to start investing in Thaumaturge. Than you get hit with 3, it's like pointless even dreaming of surviving unless rocking 50k health.

Also seems to proc way more often than 4% on non vamps. I did cure my vamps because of this *** mechanic making it impossible to PvP as undead. But still getting gibbed by Camo Hunter(not as frequently of course).

i have never seen more than two proc from one enemy in my death recap with my vamps.

15k hits are possible aswell as 20k CF hits but only under completly unlikely circumstances - someone might build for it but its not the common dmg value and the 15k is only possible for the guaranteed proc, normal procs ar 50-60% weaker.

the only thing i agree to is that the 4% ratio is somewhat strangly and it definatly feels more like 20% but that might be a perception problem aswell dying from sth odd remains longer and stronger in our memoiries than common issues.

Yonkit

Haven't you already made this thread before? Zos isn't listening

But for realsies zos, you should be fixing this extra burst that's on top of an already high stealth burst anyways. Just check the gcd on camo hunter and get it done? I can proc 3 camo's against a vamp from stealth in a single dw/surprise attack if I want, each hitting for 12k in pvp. That's not even right.

Angarato

the 4% is for non-undead. on undead the normal procrate is 15% which actually procs quite alot. the camo hunter morph makes it hit really hard from stealth. (again only on vamps and werewolfs) i say its a legit counter for vampires. if they get rid of this skillline theres no reason not to be a vampire.

the double proc with dual wield is the problem. if they fix that its fine. dont like it? cure your vampirsm.

the reason you're seeing this so much is because of the IC. all the mobs are daedra and undead. before this i barely saw anyone use fighters guild abilities in pvp.