Physical Resistance in Champion Points

deleted220103-006055 · October 2015

I've noticed how stingy Physical Resistance in the Warrior constellations is relative to Spell Resistance in Steed -> Spell Shield.

Spell Shield is giving at least 0.3% increase per point, while Heavy Armor Focus, etc. gives only 0.2% (at 3%, say). But Physical Resistance is of no lesser dignity or importance that Spell Resistance.

This is especially strange, because Spell Shield increases Spell Resistance across the board, while Physical Resistance is split up into Light, Medium, and Heavy. A more reasonable system would give not 0.2% for each Heavy, etc. Armor Focus but 0.3% * 3 = 0.9% to compensate for the fact that it applies only to a given type of armor!

Thanks.

Emma_Overload · October 2015

You must be new here!

Z** loves Stamina builds and hates Magicka, that's why it's so much easier to mitigate spell damage.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You must be new here!

Z** loves Stamina builds and hates Magicka, that's why it's so much easier to mitigate spell damage.

Bows aside all physical damage is melee range, whereas most magic damage is ranged. So to do physical damage usually means being in the thick of it, and therefore more risky than standing away from danger spamming ranged spells. And if you're taking physical damage then you can probably see your attacker in front of you, whereas if you're taking spell damage then your attacker could be anywhere in a 28m radius. I've always assumed that this accounts for the disparity.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · December 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You must be new here!

Z** loves Stamina builds and hates Magicka, that's why it's so much easier to mitigate spell damage.

Because Tanks have options that specifically reduce enemy weapon damage, but not spell damage (see alessia's bulwark and the weakening weapon enchant)

Springt-Über-Zwerge · December 2015

Also you can reduce all magic/elemental damage by up to 25% through cp and physical damage by up to 0% ... seems fair

Jitterbug · December 2015

Should be a phys dmg mitigation in the CP tree for no other reason than that it makes total sense

warpower9 · December 2015

okay hers the deal and if I'm wrong ill accept it if you make valid points. I wear 5 heavy armor pieces for the added benefits to my build. So ...on the champion point tab under the lord tree I spent points in heavy armor focus which increases my physical resistance when wearing 5 heavy. Now I watch gradually with each point like maybe this is good ..right seems slow gains though.
My solution to decide how good these points were or to decide to respec these points elsewhere...
my base physical resistance with 5 heavy is 15k if I add 25% ill go very roughly to 18 or 19k physical resistance.
This is great!! why because it means less damage from wrecking blow and if I add the points from the tree called the Steed under the "resistant" section and reduce the crit damage I receive then wrecking blow crits will hurt less. Now if you use this method in the respective 5 piece armor set you use = nice physical damage reduction, then remember to block just in case.
Not to say this is the epic reduction that we are looking for but its a good start imo. hope it helps or at least creates good debate. note* I would add 2 pics but cant figure out how sorry to be a noob.
wow sorry I tried to use proper paragraphs the more I edit the more it gets screwed up lol

timidobserver · December 2015

@Wrobel

Springt-Über-Zwerge · December 2015

@warpower9 its not going to be 25% because the CP passives for physical resistance dont go up that fast as those for spellresistance

warpower9 · December 2015

well ill keep testing I guess I only have a few points going in the respective trees I'm trying to get to 400 cp then I can have more but the grind is real and I got 20 to go for my current goal... if it pans out that with 80 points in each tree for physical and crit damage reduction that I'm still under 20k phys resist and I still get wb crits hit for over 10k then ill just move the points I guess.

Strider_Roshin · December 2015

As a stamina player I wouldn't mind this. However it's maximum resistance with 100 points should only be around 15%

timidobserver · December 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

As a stamina player I wouldn't mind this. However it's maximum resistance with 100 points should only be around 15%

Only if elemental defender and hardy are reduced to 15%.

willymchilybily · December 2015

armor =/= physical resistance since v 1.6 of the game (we are on v 2.2?)
every +1 point of armor = +1 point of physical resistance and +1 Point of spell resistance.

There are no physical resistance, or physical damage reduction passives in the champion trees. spell resistance, and then some reductions to magicka,elemental,disease and poison damage.(basically everything apart from physical damage). This makes physical damage fairly strong in PvP. All weapon attacks do physical damage only a very few class skills do physical damage.

eliisra · December 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Should be a phys dmg mitigation in the CP tree for no other reason than that it makes total sense

There's actually a bit of logic behind it. Ultimates deal elemental or magic dmg. DK Take Flight is the only ulti in the game that deals physical dmg (and can close to oneshot light armor users lol).

In PvE, there's usually only the tank that gets exposed to physical dmg. He tends to block it. Unavoidable boss dmg in PvP is mostly elemental, wood, poision or magic.

They made the signs to cover most common high dmg types.

But right now you have normal physical dmg skills hitting harder than actual ultimates in PvP.

It goes both ways really. Give NB's, stamplars and sorcs an ultimate that deals physical dmg, while simultaneously introducing a sign that reduces physical dmg taken.

Strider_Roshin · December 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

As a stamina player I wouldn't mind this. However it's maximum resistance with 100 points should only be around 15%

Only if elemental defender and hardy are reduced to 15%.

No... magic users use both elemental and magical damage. Meaning in order to combat magic builds we must put points in both of these. Stamina builds only focus on physical damage. So having just one passive to invest in to combat a whole play style is unbalanced if we need to invest in two; with all three having equal scaling.

Springt-Über-Zwerge · December 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

As a stamina player I wouldn't mind this. However it's maximum resistance with 100 points should only be around 15%

Only if elemental defender and hardy are reduced to 15%.

No... magic users use both elemental and magical damage. Meaning in order to combat magic builds we must put points in both of these. Stamina builds only focus on physical damage. So having just one passive to invest in to combat a whole play style is unbalanced if we need to invest in two; with all three having equal scaling.

but you have to see that magick users have to put 100 points into elemtal expert and thaumaturge to boost all their abilities by 25% where as stamina users just need 100 in mighty so its just fair

Emma_Overload · December 2015

They should just replace the useless DOT damage reduction CP passive with a Physical damage reduction passive...

PROBLEM SOLVED.

Vangy · December 2015

Give me a nirnhorned for physical damage, + proper sustain for stamina builds then we can discuss CP disparity. As it stands the only good thing about stamina builds is insane QQ 3 second burst (most likely from stealth cos we all love gankers).

Lets see:

If ur magicka:
Shields check
Healing check
sustain check
burst check
mobility check

If ur Stam:
Shields nope
healing nope (vigor and rally are the only ones and vigor is pretty far into the pvp tree)
sustain, hell nope
burst, hell yes
mobility (nb yes, if not too bad nope)

Magicka is better in almost every aspect of the game except in some niche pvp aspects such as duelling and stealth ganking lol. The disparity is the ONLY reason most people play stam builds in PVP. This is also why u hardly ever see ANY stam builds in vWGT/ICP farm runs, trials etc etc. Also why classes like stam dk are *** in vMSA leader boards. Hardly any1 plays them anymore cos why suffer when u can just face roll with sorc.

Strider_Roshin · December 2015

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

As a stamina player I wouldn't mind this. However it's maximum resistance with 100 points should only be around 15%

Only if elemental defender and hardy are reduced to 15%.

No... magic users use both elemental and magical damage. Meaning in order to combat magic builds we must put points in both of these. Stamina builds only focus on physical damage. So having just one passive to invest in to combat a whole play style is unbalanced if we need to invest in two; with all three having equal scaling.

but you have to see that magick users have to put 100 points into elemtal expert and thaumaturge to boost all their abilities by 25% where as stamina users just need 100 in mighty so its just fair

Still no. Magicka builds focus on one or the other. Rarely both.

Springt-Über-Zwerge · December 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

As a stamina player I wouldn't mind this. However it's maximum resistance with 100 points should only be around 15%

Only if elemental defender and hardy are reduced to 15%.

No... magic users use both elemental and magical damage. Meaning in order to combat magic builds we must put points in both of these. Stamina builds only focus on physical damage. So having just one passive to invest in to combat a whole play style is unbalanced if we need to invest in two; with all three having equal scaling.

but you have to see that magick users have to put 100 points into elemtal expert and thaumaturge to boost all their abilities by 25% where as stamina users just need 100 in mighty so its just fair

Still no. Magicka builds focus on one or the other. Rarely both.

Yea because we cant have enough cp to focus on both. But still I dont get why you can reduce magic damage of any kind by 25% and increase spellresistance without any cons by 25% while you can increase armor by 16% bound to 3 different passives which require you to use 5 pieces of that kind of armor and 0% reduction. There is just no logical reason for it

FriedEggSandwich · December 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

As a stamina player I wouldn't mind this. However it's maximum resistance with 100 points should only be around 15%

Only if elemental defender and hardy are reduced to 15%.

No... magic users use both elemental and magical damage. Meaning in order to combat magic builds we must put points in both of these. Stamina builds only focus on physical damage. So having just one passive to invest in to combat a whole play style is unbalanced if we need to invest in two; with all three having equal scaling.

but you have to see that magick users have to put 100 points into elemtal expert and thaumaturge to boost all their abilities by 25% where as stamina users just need 100 in mighty so its just fair

Still no. Magicka builds focus on one or the other. Rarely both.

Um, sorcs have a fairly even mixture of elemental and magic damage. Streak, mages wrath = shock, frags, curse = magic. How would focusing on one or the other benefit me?

Strider_Roshin · December 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Give me a nirnhorned for physical damage, + proper sustain for stamina builds then we can discuss CP disparity. As it stands the only good thing about stamina builds is insane QQ 3 second burst (most likely from stealth cos we all love gankers).

Lets see:

If ur magicka:
Shields check
Healing check
sustain check
burst check
mobility check

If ur Stam:
Shields nope
healing nope (vigor and rally are the only ones and vigor is pretty far into the pvp tree)
sustain, hell nope
burst, hell yes
mobility (nb yes, if not too bad nope)

Magicka is better in almost every aspect of the game except in some niche pvp aspects such as duelling and stealth ganking lol. The disparity is the ONLY reason most people play stam builds in PVP. This is also why u hardly ever see ANY stam builds in vWGT/ICP farm runs, trials etc etc. Also why classes like stam dk are *** in vMSA leader boards. Hardly any1 plays them anymore cos why suffer when u can just face roll with sorc.

Yeah magicka out performs stamina the majority of the time. However stamina has an advantage in this one single facet, and we can't have that now. You know what I retract my statement from earlier. There should not be a cp passive for physical resistance. You want one? Then make stamina builds just as survivable for VMA, give us a burst heal like breath of life, make all ultimates in the game have a physical damage morph. Don't like these conditions do you? Well this is the garbage stamina builds have to deal with. Magicka builds are so caught up about the one area where they don't have the advantage that they're blind to the overall balance to the game, and the general favoritism to magicka users.

TERMINAT0R_XVII · December 2015

warpower9 wrote: »

okay hers the deal and if I'm wrong ill accept it if you make valid points. I wear 5 heavy armor pieces for the added benefits to my build. So ...on the champion point tab under the lord tree I spent points in heavy armor focus which increases my physical resistance when wearing 5 heavy. Now I watch gradually with each point like maybe this is good ..right seems slow gains though.
My solution to decide how good these points were or to decide to respec these points elsewhere...
my base physical resistance with 5 heavy is 15k if I add 25% ill go very roughly to 18 or 19k physical resistance.
This is great!! why because it means less damage from wrecking blow and if I add the points from the tree called the Steed under the "resistant" section and reduce the crit damage I receive then wrecking blow crits will hurt less. Now if you use this method in the respective 5 piece armor set you use = nice physical damage reduction, then remember to block just in case.
Not to say this is the epic reduction that we are looking for but its a good start imo. hope it helps or at least creates good debate. note* I would add 2 pics but cant figure out how sorry to be a noob.
wow sorry I tried to use proper paragraphs the more I edit the more it gets screwed up lol

Vet rank, class and race?

Springt-Über-Zwerge · December 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Give me a nirnhorned for physical damage, + proper sustain for stamina builds then we can discuss CP disparity. As it stands the only good thing about stamina builds is insane QQ 3 second burst (most likely from stealth cos we all love gankers).

Lets see:

If ur magicka:
Shields check
Healing check
sustain check
burst check
mobility check

If ur Stam:
Shields nope
healing nope (vigor and rally are the only ones and vigor is pretty far into the pvp tree)
sustain, hell nope
burst, hell yes
mobility (nb yes, if not too bad nope)

Magicka is better in almost every aspect of the game except in some niche pvp aspects such as duelling and stealth ganking lol. The disparity is the ONLY reason most people play stam builds in PVP. This is also why u hardly ever see ANY stam builds in vWGT/ICP farm runs, trials etc etc. Also why classes like stam dk are *** in vMSA leader boards. Hardly any1 plays them anymore cos why suffer when u can just face roll with sorc.

Yeah magicka out performs stamina the majority of the time. However stamina has an advantage in this one single facet, and we can't have that now. You know what I retract my statement from earlier. There should not be a cp passive for physical resistance. You want one? Then make stamina builds just as survivable for VMA, give us a burst heal like breath of life, make all ultimates in the game have a physical damage morph. Don't like these conditions do you? Well this is the garbage stamina builds have to deal with. Magicka builds are so caught up about the one area where they don't have the advantage that they're blind to the overall balance to the game, and the general favoritism to magicka users.

Idk where you get that from stam builds normally stack more weapon damage than magicka builds can achieve.
The stamina support from Templars is better than the one magicka users can get out of syphon spirit, ele drain and orb combined.
Medium armor has way better defenses and passives.
,...
So dont say magicka has advances over stamina in every possible way

Im all for physical damage in ults and more stamina morphs but not without a CP passive that increases my armor by 25% without being locked to 1 armor type and one that decreases physical damage taken by 25%
And who knows maybe you will get a nirn trait for stam users with thieves guild?

timidobserver · December 2015

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

As a stamina player I wouldn't mind this. However it's maximum resistance with 100 points should only be around 15%

Only if elemental defender and hardy are reduced to 15%.

No... magic users use both elemental and magical damage. Meaning in order to combat magic builds we must put points in both of these. Stamina builds only focus on physical damage. So having just one passive to invest in to combat a whole play style is unbalanced if we need to invest in two; with all three having equal scaling.

I am okay with either merging hardy and elemental defender or adding a passive for ranged physical damage and melee physcal damage. Regardless, they should all have the same percentage.

It would probably be really easy to just merge hardy and elemental defender into one passive and then turn the other one we are deleting into a physical damage reduction passive.

Forestd16b14_ESO · December 2015

Simple .... ZOS hates anything non-magical.

Vangy · December 2015

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Give me a nirnhorned for physical damage, + proper sustain for stamina builds then we can discuss CP disparity. As it stands the only good thing about stamina builds is insane QQ 3 second burst (most likely from stealth cos we all love gankers).

Lets see:

If ur magicka:
Shields check
Healing check
sustain check
burst check
mobility check

If ur Stam:
Shields nope
healing nope (vigor and rally are the only ones and vigor is pretty far into the pvp tree)
sustain, hell nope
burst, hell yes
mobility (nb yes, if not too bad nope)

Magicka is better in almost every aspect of the game except in some niche pvp aspects such as duelling and stealth ganking lol. The disparity is the ONLY reason most people play stam builds in PVP. This is also why u hardly ever see ANY stam builds in vWGT/ICP farm runs, trials etc etc. Also why classes like stam dk are *** in vMSA leader boards. Hardly any1 plays them anymore cos why suffer when u can just face roll with sorc.

Yeah magicka out performs stamina the majority of the time. However stamina has an advantage in this one single facet, and we can't have that now. You know what I retract my statement from earlier. There should not be a cp passive for physical resistance. You want one? Then make stamina builds just as survivable for VMA, give us a burst heal like breath of life, make all ultimates in the game have a physical damage morph. Don't like these conditions do you? Well this is the garbage stamina builds have to deal with. Magicka builds are so caught up about the one area where they don't have the advantage that they're blind to the overall balance to the game, and the general favoritism to magicka users.

Idk where you get that from stam builds normally stack more weapon damage than magicka builds can achieve.
The stamina support from Templars is better than the one magicka users can get out of syphon spirit, ele drain and orb combined.
Medium armor has way better defenses and passives.
,...
So dont say magicka has advances over stamina in every possible way

Im all for physical damage in ults and more stamina morphs but not without a CP passive that increases my armor by 25% without being locked to 1 armor type and one that decreases physical damage taken by 25%
And who knows maybe you will get a nirn trait for stam users with thieves guild?

Stamina stacks more weapon damage for burst/ganking. Ele drain, mystic orb are run by healers who are OFF-dps. Give me a stamina user who can heal while doing off dps? Don't think that makes sense right? Medium armor Passives being better is very very debatable. At best it's slightly better. Just take a look at your group The next time you do a pledge or a vwgt farm run or trial. Spot the stam user, If any. Stam users only have ball group spin2win with cyro stealth ganking/duelling going for them.

DeanTheCat · December 2015

Physical damage is pretty much melee only(Other then the Bow), which means that the physical damage dealer has to expose himself to retaliation by pretty much every enemy within a 36m range. In addition, Physical damage is currently the only counter to Bastion, as there isn't a +25% damage done to shields anywhere in the Champion System to counterbalance the +25% shield strength. Therefore, the bonus from Bastion is counteracted by Mighty and vici versa.

In addition, ZOS is unwilling to put a CP passive to reduce Physical damage taken as that will allow the rise of Light Armor tanks in PvE (Again), something that ZOS is trying to actively suppress. Most enemies in PvE do physical damage, which means that the Physical damage reduction passive will be utterly overpowered in a PvE context, not to mention completely negating the currently only non-shieldbreaker based counter to Damage Shields.

What ZOS should do rather then to implement the anti-physical passive is to change Bow abilities to Poison Damage only. This will bring the Bow in line, as well as ensuring that Physical damage is the exclusive domain of melee ranged combatants, who should be rewarded for their risk in going in close with little to no utility with high damage output.

dday3six · December 2015

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Physical damage is pretty much melee only(Other then the Bow), which means that the physical damage dealer has to expose himself to retaliation by pretty much every enemy within a 36m range. In addition, Physical damage is currently the only counter to Bastion, as there isn't a +25% damage done to shields anywhere in the Champion System to counterbalance the +25% shield strength. Therefore, the bonus from Bastion is counteracted by Mighty and vici versa.

In addition, ZOS is unwilling to put a CP passive to reduce Physical damage taken as that will allow the rise of Light Armor tanks in PvE (Again), something that ZOS is trying to actively suppress. Most enemies in PvE do physical damage, which means that the Physical damage reduction passive will be utterly overpowered in a PvE context, not to mention completely negating the currently only non-shieldbreaker based counter to Damage Shields.

What ZOS should do rather then to implement the anti-physical passive is to change Bow abilities to Poison Damage only. This will bring the Bow in line, as well as ensuring that Physical damage is the exclusive domain of melee ranged combatants, who should be rewarded for their risk in going in close with little to no utility with high damage output.

A DK can actually hit resistence caps in 5 light or medium using 5pc Armor Master, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Defending on weapons, and Reinforced on shields and heavy chest.

zornyan · December 2015

dday3six wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Physical damage is pretty much melee only(Other then the Bow), which means that the physical damage dealer has to expose himself to retaliation by pretty much every enemy within a 36m range. In addition, Physical damage is currently the only counter to Bastion, as there isn't a +25% damage done to shields anywhere in the Champion System to counterbalance the +25% shield strength. Therefore, the bonus from Bastion is counteracted by Mighty and vici versa.

In addition, ZOS is unwilling to put a CP passive to reduce Physical damage taken as that will allow the rise of Light Armor tanks in PvE (Again), something that ZOS is trying to actively suppress. Most enemies in PvE do physical damage, which means that the Physical damage reduction passive will be utterly overpowered in a PvE context, not to mention completely negating the currently only non-shieldbreaker based counter to Damage Shields.

What ZOS should do rather then to implement the anti-physical passive is to change Bow abilities to Poison Damage only. This will bring the Bow in line, as well as ensuring that Physical damage is the exclusive domain of melee ranged combatants, who should be rewarded for their risk in going in close with little to no utility with high damage output.

A DK can actually hit resistence caps in 5 light or medium using 5pc Armor Master, an Armor Skill, Hardened Armor, Defending on weapons, and Reinforced on shields and heavy chest.

Why would you use an armor ability and hardened armor? Surely you would just slot immovable brute ?

dday3six · December 2015

zornyan wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Physical damage is pretty much melee only(Other then the Bow), which means that the physical damage dealer has to expose himself to retaliation by pretty much every enemy within a 36m range. In addition, Physical damage is currently the only counter to Bastion, as there isn't a +25% damage done to shields anywhere in the Champion System to counterbalance the +25% shield strength. Therefore, the bonus from Bastion is counteracted by Mighty and vici versa.

In addition, ZOS is unwilling to put a CP passive to reduce Physical damage taken as that will allow the rise of Light Armor tanks in PvE (Again), something that ZOS is trying to actively suppress. Most enemies in PvE do physical damage, which means that the Physical damage reduction passive will be utterly overpowered in a PvE context, not to mention completely negating the currently only non-shieldbreaker based counter to Damage Shields.

What ZOS should do rather then to implement the anti-physical passive is to change Bow abilities to Poison Damage only. This will bring the Bow in line, as well as ensuring that Physical damage is the exclusive domain of melee ranged combatants, who should be rewarded for their risk in going in close with little to no utility with high damage output.

A DK can actually hit resistence caps in 5 light or medium using 5pc Armor Master, an Armor Skill, Hardened Armor, Defending on weapons, and Reinforced on shields and heavy chest.

Why would you use an armor ability and hardened armor? Surely you would just slot immovable brute ?

I should've been more specfic and said Shuffle. That's typically what's used. Immovable and it's morphs, can run into sustain issues, costing about 1k more stamina. Shuffle nets Major Evasion same buff as 5pc Histbark, but even while not blocking. Downside is yes you'll be spending a second skill slot for Hardened Armor + Shuffle, but it's trading for the passives of wearing 5pc light or medium armor.