[Datamine] Orsinium

ADarklore

Leandor wrote: »

That's what I meant in my initial post: why limit content to only a small part of player base instead of trying to create something that caters to many? And why using buzzword excuses to justify a bad decision?

I hate to tell you, but clearly the majority of the player base are players who prefer solo PvE content. Besides that, ZOS has datamining capabilities that can tell them how many players group, how many run exclusively solo, etc. Therefore, they are going to dedicate their resources to the majority of players playing their game while throwing a bone to other players every so often.

Leandor

ADarklore wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

That's what I meant in my initial post: why limit content to only a small part of player base instead of trying to create something that caters to many? And why using buzzword excuses to justify a bad decision?

I hate to tell you, but clearly the majority of the player base are players who prefer solo PvE content. Besides that, ZOS has datamining capabilities that can tell them how many players group, how many run exclusively solo, etc. Therefore, they are going to dedicate their resources to the majority of players playing their game while throwing a bone to other players every so often.

Well, this is where I disagree. I think the majority of players wants content they can do alone but still gives the option to group up as well. Just take a look back into the past and read the posts in regards to ZOS' decision to make the main quest forced solo.

Ghanima_Atreides

Leandor wrote: »

Well, this is where I disagree. I think the majority of players wants content they can do alone but still gives the option to group up as well. Just take a look back into the past and read the posts in regards to ZOS' decision to make the main quest forced solo.

Well as I understood it...the only forced solo content in Orsinium will be the new arena? The overland quest content and new dungeons will be available to both solo players and groups, in fact the description suggests groups will be needed for the dungeons.

Enodoc

Leandor wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Kyoma wrote: »

People keep bringing up Craglorn and how it was hated with the forced group content, but it had nothing to do with the trials/raids! We aren't asking for a group zone, we are asking about a (group) trial!!

While that comparison is indeed invalid, the baseline comparison is still relevant - Trials are a component of Adventure Zones, Craglorn is an Adventure Zone, Wrothgar/Orsinium is not an Adventure Zone, therefore Wrothgar/Orsinium should not be, and never has been, expected to have any Trials.

I do not agree to this stance at all, primarily because putting labels on things usually is a downhill slope that never leads to worthwile results.

Why does group content have to be tied only to a region that has gotten some invented label and why do we need another label for every new region?

That may be true, but my point is that these labels do exist, so we shouldn't be expecting things to appear outside of where these arbitrary labels put them. It would be great if these labels were to disappear, but until they do, we shouldn't be overly hopeful for things merging together across zone types.

I repeat myself, the problem with craglorn was the fact that you could not complete it if you didn't have a group of people with the exact same schedules.

I agree that this was the main problem with Craglorn, so I am hoping that the next "Adventure Zone" (Murkmire) will build on the group focus of Craglorn without forcing it; perhaps by putting the group focus onto certain dungeons while leaving the overworld more viable when you don't have a group.

The problem with orsinium, if it is implemented with a strictly solo approach as is indicated in OPs description, will be the same but different: it makes it impossible to socialise. I know that my wife will definitely stop playing, if it is forced solo, since she prefers to run together because she actually has no fun at all in trying to beat "overly difficult" tasks in a game.

That's what I meant in my initial post: why limit content to only a small part of player base instead of trying to create something that caters to many? And why using buzzword excuses to justify a bad decision?

From what we know of Wrothgar/Orsinium, it is supposed to be designed like an Alliance Zone, whereby most things are doable solo, but nothing is forced solo (except the Arena), making it great for both solo and small groups.

If orsinium is done properly, and has actual scaling content, using instancing rather than phasing to allow people to progress at their own speed rather than at the group's majority speed, while still not losing the feeling of world progression due to ones own actions, it could be truly unique and progressive.

What do you mean by using instancing rather than phasing? Both would split up a group, but at least with phasing you'd be back in the same phase as your friends once you finished the quest that changed the phases.

Edit: They really need to make it so that you can rephase yourself to the phase of your group leader so you can help with questing content that they are doing even if you've already finished it.

Sallington

If there's no new content for guilds to complete as a group, then a lot of people are going to lose interest in logging in.

Gilvoth

If there's no new content for solo players like myself to complete as solo, then a lot of people are going to lose interest in logging in.
there are alot more solo players then people realize.
i prefer solo.

Leandor

Enodoc wrote: »

What do you mean by using instancing rather than phasing? Both would split up a group, but at least with phasing you'd be back in the same phase as your friends once you finished the quest that changed the phases.

Edit: They really need to make it so that you can rephase yourself to the phase of your group leader so you can help with questing content that they are doing even if you've already finished it.

Using phasing, you can't scale, since whenever someone enters your phase you would have to re-scale it. Phasing on individual basis or group basis is basically instancing, since your group will only encounter others if they invite them to the group and into their instance.

Basically, phasing gives the illusion of world progress based on individual player contribution, instancing is less "immershunz" but more fun.

Enodoc

Leandor wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

What do you mean by using instancing rather than phasing? Both would split up a group, but at least with phasing you'd be back in the same phase as your friends once you finished the quest that changed the phases.

Edit: They really need to make it so that you can rephase yourself to the phase of your group leader so you can help with questing content that they are doing even if you've already finished it.

Using phasing, you can't scale, since whenever someone enters your phase you would have to re-scale it. Phasing on individual basis or group basis is basically instancing, since your group will only encounter others if they invite them to the group and into their instance.

Basically, phasing gives the illusion of world progress based on individual player contribution, instancing is less "immershunz" but more fun.

Ah right, that makes sense. They have already confirmed though that it's the players that will be scaling to the content (like battle levelling), not the other way around.

asneakybanana

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

No new trial? We've already been waiting for so long...

Not as long as the rest of us have been waiting for solo-able endgame content. You got Craglorn a couple months after launch!

There waa solo content... It was the dungeons before they made them scale. I remember people bragging about soloing spindle clutch. Also there is solo content in quests, pvp, public dungeons, you're a sorc you should have easily been able to solo stuff back when you had crit surge.

Leandor

Enodoc wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

What do you mean by using instancing rather than phasing? Both would split up a group, but at least with phasing you'd be back in the same phase as your friends once you finished the quest that changed the phases.

Edit: They really need to make it so that you can rephase yourself to the phase of your group leader so you can help with questing content that they are doing even if you've already finished it.

Using phasing, you can't scale, since whenever someone enters your phase you would have to re-scale it. Phasing on individual basis or group basis is basically instancing, since your group will only encounter others if they invite them to the group and into their instance.

Basically, phasing gives the illusion of world progress based on individual player contribution, instancing is less "immershunz" but more fun.

Ah right, that makes sense. They have already confirmed though that it's the players that will be scaling to the content (like battle levelling), not the other way around.

Considering their previous try at scaling players to the content (as you mentioned, battle levelling), why do I think that this is a bad idea?

Woeler

EIGHTS wrote: »

We already have Craglorn. Don't do it again.

Sorcerer is a solo class. Because he isn't a tank, dps or healer.
We aren't welcome to do trials or pledges.

lolwhat? In what universe do you live? If you're not taken on trials I'll debunk that mystery for you, it ain't because you're a sorc.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vN08Xygc39I

Casdha

Fecius wrote: »

Personally I’m a group PvE player. I love dungeons, trials and other group content like this. I also love a TES single player games. I’m not against of a new content for any kind of players, but I play MMO for high-end PvE raids and I’m upset, that last one we had was SO far back in 1.4. Otherwise I would prefer a single player game.

Looking at all those comments before I’m pretty shocked to see so many happy faces. I can respect your point of view, but I really can’t accept and can’t even understand why do you play MMO, if you want to play it like a solo game? Certainly my money is the same as yours for ZOS so I have to adapt and be patient a bit waiting for my new Trial. Sorry, but I still can’t understand you and Orsinium is kinda time sinking trash for me. Thx my subscription I will take a look at Orsinium and its story but I doubt I would ever buy it separately.

I respect your comments as well, I'd just ask you to remember that Group PvE got the first content out of the gate and it was solely for Groups both large and small. Solo will be the last in rotation. Lets all fight for a mix of content rather than a rotation from this point on and Hope Orsinium does well enough to encourage them to speed up content additions.

As for not undertanding why folks want to play MMOs rather than say it again I'll quote this very good post.

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

Not wanting to do group content is not the same as wanting to play solo.

I can't do much group content because of the pace - my hands are pretty wrecked.

However I do like seeing other people around in the world, going fishing with my guildies, trading with other players, occasionally light questing with other players, dancing in the streets of Daggerfall with other players, chatting with my guildies etc.

Questing solo much of the time in a MMO is vastly different from playing a single player game. Even if other players effectively only fill the role of more unpredictable NPCs then they still add a level of 'life' to the world that you cannot yet replicate with an AI NPC.

I'm really looking forward to Orsinium - hoping for a good story, an interesting environment and maybe even Bumnog.

Grunim

Fecius wrote: »

Personally I’m a group PvE player. I love dungeons, trials and other group content like this. I also love a TES single player games. I’m not against of a new content for any kind of players, but I play MMO for high-end PvE raids and I’m upset, that last one we had was SO far back in 1.4. Otherwise I would prefer a single player game.

Looking at all those comments before I’m pretty shocked to see so many happy faces. I can respect your point of view, but I really can’t accept and can’t even understand why do you play MMO, if you want to play it like a solo game? Certainly my money is the same as yours for ZOS so I have to adapt and be patient a bit waiting for my new Trial. Sorry, but I still can’t understand you and Orsinium is kinda time sinking trash for me. Thx my subscription I will take a look at Orsinium and its story but I doubt I would ever buy it separately.

Here's an answer for you since you said you can't understand why those of us who don't enjoy group PvE would be playing an MMO. As I stated earlier, I enjoy groups for PvP and you can't do that in a single player game.

I can also have fun at times doing solo PvE. I loved the arena in Oblivion for instance. Most MMOs provide plenty of opportunities to enjoy solo PvE and this game is no exception.

Shadesofkin

Ok, to be fair, Craglorn is only sort of "group" content. There's a large amount of it that has been soloable since day one if you're good enough. I mean, for crying out loud, there have been plenty of players who used Crag to grind their Veteran Ranks at some point or another.

I have zero issues with seeing some solo content, I have a huge/mega/outstanding issue with the lack of scale for the current Trials and no new Trial yet announced. It's not as if we're asking for Murkmire any faster, but it'd be nice to see 1 New Trial.
At the very least, scale DSA, HRC, AA, and SO. All we need is one decent new trial and scale for the existing ones.

That isn't so much to ask and that doesn't take away from PvP or Solo PvE content updates.

Daveheart

Woeler wrote: »

EIGHTS wrote: »

We already have Craglorn. Don't do it again.

Sorcerer is a solo class. Because he isn't a tank, dps or healer.
We aren't welcome to do trials or pledges.

lolwhat? In what universe do you live? If you're not taken on trials I'll debunk that mystery for you, it ain't because you're a sorc.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vN08Xygc39I

Maybe he's another NA player. This is still a very common misconception over here.

Casdha wrote: »

Fecius wrote: »

Personally I’m a group PvE player. I love dungeons, trials and other group content like this. I also love a TES single player games. I’m not against of a new content for any kind of players, but I play MMO for high-end PvE raids and I’m upset, that last one we had was SO far back in 1.4. Otherwise I would prefer a single player game.

Looking at all those comments before I’m pretty shocked to see so many happy faces. I can respect your point of view, but I really can’t accept and can’t even understand why do you play MMO, if you want to play it like a solo game? Certainly my money is the same as yours for ZOS so I have to adapt and be patient a bit waiting for my new Trial. Sorry, but I still can’t understand you and Orsinium is kinda time sinking trash for me. Thx my subscription I will take a look at Orsinium and its story but I doubt I would ever buy it separately.

I respect your comments as well, I'd just ask you to remember that Group PvE got the first content out of the gate and it was solely for Groups both large and small. Solo will be the last in rotation. Lets all fight for a mix of content rather than a rotation from this point on and Hope Orsinium does well enough to encourage them to speed up content additions.

As for not undertanding why folks want to play MMOs rather than say it again I'll quote this very good post.

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

Not wanting to do group content is not the same as wanting to play solo.

I can't do much group content because of the pace - my hands are pretty wrecked.

However I do like seeing other people around in the world, going fishing with my guildies, trading with other players, occasionally light questing with other players, dancing in the streets of Daggerfall with other players, chatting with my guildies etc.

Questing solo much of the time in a MMO is vastly different from playing a single player game. Even if other players effectively only fill the role of more unpredictable NPCs then they still add a level of 'life' to the world that you cannot yet replicate with an AI NPC.

I'm really looking forward to Orsinium - hoping for a good story, an interesting environment and maybe even Bumnog.

To be fair, grouped PvE content is still by far the smallest portion of this game.

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Ok, to be fair, Craglorn is only sort of "group" content. There's a large amount of it that has been soloable since day one if you're good enough. I mean, for crying out loud, there have been plenty of players who used Crag to grind their Veteran Ranks at some point or another.

I have zero issues with seeing some solo content, I have a huge/mega/outstanding issue with the lack of scale for the current Trials and no new Trial yet announced. It's not as if we're asking for Murkmire any faster, but it'd be nice to see 1 New Trial.
At the very least, scale DSA, HRC, AA, and SO. All we need is one decent new trial and scale for the existing ones.

That isn't so much to ask and that doesn't take away from PvP or Solo PvE content updates.

Yes, there are a couple dungeons that require a group to get through a door, but for the most part it's all soloable- including DSA.

Casdha

Rather than more quotes -

Craglorn - I don't consider mob fights content (yes my opinion) If the main story quest was Solo and everything else would have been group I think that would have been fine, They fixed this with IC (with exception to Bleeding Temple, but I'm not complaining). I have no problem with making group stuff tougher if folks want it (no chance at solo) but main story should always be able to be completed solo (even if it is tough).

I think a good idea to try for group dungeons would be after adding a Veteran mode you make an Ultimate mode and enable PvP so groups of 4 from each faction (or trial groups of 12) could come in and compete for the Quest winner. They could hang back and fight at the end or they could fight along the way,,, or they could team up till the end.

No zerg PvP and something possibly tougher than the Veteran mode (would depend on team skill)

EIGHTS

AngryNord wrote: »

Where did that 'LoL' button go?

Woeler wrote: »

lolwhat? In what universe do you live? If you're not taken on trials I'll debunk that mystery for you, it ain't because you're a sorc.

Are there many sorcerers in the leaderboard?

You're lucky have guild mates or friends to do those contents.
They don't give you up.

Why do people want a stranger sorcerer?
If they can find a DK for tank, NB for dps, Templar for healer.


It's very clear.

Scyantific

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Well, this is where I disagree. I think the majority of players wants content they can do alone but still gives the option to group up as well. Just take a look back into the past and read the posts in regards to ZOS' decision to make the main quest forced solo.

Well as I understood it...the only forced solo content in Orsinium will be the new arena? The overland quest content and new dungeons will be available to both solo players and groups, in fact the description suggests groups will be needed for the dungeons.

No, IIRC all quests in Orsinium will be solo instances (like the Harborage/Fighters/Mages questlines).

Gerardopg

I always play as sorcerer and I never had any problem finding a group

Scyantific

EIGHTS wrote: »

We already have Craglorn. Don't do it again.

Sorcerer is a solo class. Because he isn't a tank, dps or healer.
We aren't welcome to do trials or pledges.

LOL this dude hasn't seen Senaxu or Beyond Infinity's all Sorc trial runs.

EIGHTS

Scyantific wrote: »

LOL this dude hasn't seen Senaxu or Beyond Infinity's all Sorc trial runs.

Yes! I don't.
But I'm not Senaxu or Beyond Infinity.

Do they want to teach us how to do?

Scyantific

Probably not, because then you'd still think Sorcs are useless.

EIGHTS

Scyantific wrote: »

Probably not, because then you'd still think Sorcs are useless.

I don't think sorcerer is useless.
If I think so, why I play as a sorcerer.
I love my character and I only play as a sorcerer.

I'm always the last one die in any vet pledges.
The only problem is I don't think I'm useful for the group.
Others don't want a sorcerer if they have a choice.

So I like to do solo.

Kyoma

There are no bad classes/combos, only bad players.

Prof_Bawbag

I think the most important part of this data mine has been completely overlooked. Will we be getting a new pet companion once we are victorious in the arena? Like some annoying little Bosmer?

Scyantific

Probably some unique thing that'll immediately be available in the CS 2 weeks after release.

EIGHTS

Kyoma wrote: »

There are no bad classes/combos, only bad players.

I don't mean there is a bad class.

If there are always group contents like AA.
It's not good for someone.

I think more solo contents are welcome or don't force players to group.
I can choose how to play.

Egonieser

YaY a PvE expansion. I've yet to do craglorn after over a year of playing and 3 vr16 toons.. All which were leveled in PvP.
I think i solo'ed 5 group delves there before dying from boredom.

I think I'll pass. Best save up a it of gold for the new gear to buy it if i will ever need it.

kuscoe

Sallington wrote: »

If there's no new content for guilds to complete as a group, then a lot of people are going to lose interest in logging in.

Grunim

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I think the most important part of this data mine has been completely overlooked. Will we be getting a new pet companion once we are victorious in the arena? Like some annoying little Bosmer?

Only if I can murder this adoring little Bosmer and next time I wake up someone says to me, "You sleep soundly for a murderer".