Glass Motif in the Crown Store - Discussion - Counter Argument - Solutions

Saltypretzels

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Saltypretzels wrote: »

Motif was released WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY way way way too soon.

It should have been released with Orsinium, like Elloa suggests.

I rather think the opposite : they should have made it available in the crown store at the exact same time as in the game, just like they did with the XP scrolls / psijic ambrosia.

This way it's not "something ingame loose its meaning because it is in the crown store", but "something new is in the crown store, but, as promised, you have the option to work for it ingame as well". And everybody would be happy.

I agree that would also have been a better solution. At least then it is honest.

Pretty much the worst solution is the one they ended up going with.

I told a friend after the game adopted a crown store that I would play ESO for a couple of years, probably until the game lost all integrity because of these kind of tricks which are so prevalent in mobile games.

Think about Candy Crush: they design the levels to be nearly impossible so that people are forced to spend money. Now ESO is not yet stooped to that level, of course, but this type of move does push us further down the slippery slope, as one poster wrote above.

Troneon

The thing that bothers me the most is these freemium game type microtransactions, they do effect game design choices. Just a little more frustration here, a little more grind there, a little bit more of RNG here.....it does effect game design and choices when they make things for the game, pushed decisions from marketing departments, shareholders and publishers....is usually why deadlines are pushed and things get released when they are not ready to be.

For me it is that kind of greed and scummy business models that have infected the gaming industry and destroyed a lot of potentially great games and instead becoming freemium trashy games not worth the time you have to put in when you can just whip your credit card out instead....

Games are not made for anything else but to squeeze as much money out of them as possible, regardless of reputation or how much damage it does to the game in the long run, quick turnover and quick cash injection is all that matters now. It never used to be like this and I fear it will never not be like this ever again.

My last hope is Star Citizen and a few non publisher, non investors, only dev studio crowd funded games, they have no deadlines, no shareholders or publishers to answer to or pushing them to make more rng, grind or other terrible changes for profit...but if they don't become a success I fear I may just stop playing games completely....the 90's were special for the industry but now they have lost what made games great, I hope they can one day make it back to how it was and could of been, but I doubt it..

SilentRaven1972

It did seem that they put the glass motif in the crown store MUCH sooner than I figured they would. I'm in no hurry for it, so will not buy it, especially at that price. I haven't even bought the DLC yet. I bought one motif, Daedric. It and the occasional mount are my main interests. There are costumes I'd like to get, but I can wait. Same with motif bits...I'll find them eventually, there's no reason for me to hurry.

JamilaRaj

The only solution is to stop paying and stop playing.

Kuroinu

@Saltypretzels @Troneon - It's funny you guys bring up the fact that micro-transactions and certain business models of some games these days are almost mimicking that of gambling and casino-style games. It's seeping its way into all forms of gaming, which is disgusting and should be avoided by developers.

I don't mean for this to sound rude, but we should make mouse mats for the developers of these great games that end up going down hill because of such distasteful implementation due to business/marketing decisions.

They should look something like this:



I post this all with no intention to disrespect, I just want developers to be more aware of certain decisions. We all understand the store is a good resource for funding further development but, make the game more alive, along with your store.

Gidorick

So, ZOS should wait until the novelty and interest of the Glass Motif wears off until they release it in the Crown Store? I can't see that suggestion going over too well in the budget meetings. I get why people are upset about this, but this is the nature of THIS business. If they released it at the same time as the DLC... they would have sold less of the DLC. If they waited longer, too many people would have found it in game and they would have lost sales.

These tactics are required of this kind of revenue model. They wouldn't do this if they didn't work. Upset? Stop paying. That is the only way to effectively communicate with ZOS.

Of course, the fact that these criticisms come from a prominent community figure such as @Elloa, there is a much better chance of ZOS listening.

Elloa

I really want Zenimax to make a lot of money! I want the game to succeed and their company to flourish and be successful.
But I will never agree with greedy, scamming method to push players to consume. Its unfair, ugly and unethical.

There is a moment where the ligne can not be crossed, and when Zenimax cross the line, we need to make heard our voice .

In the interest of everyone. Both Zenimax and their customers.

Qyrk

First of all, I'm indifferent to the move and I am a crafter (all 9 traits etc.).

But let's be a devil's advocate here. If they place the motif later, wouldn't there be a chance for these said crafters to cause an uproar saying, "I worked so hard to get all of them all these months and you just place it on the crown store???".

Just my 2c.

Again, I'm indifferent to this.

Gidorick

Elloa wrote: »

I really want Zenimax to make a lot of money! I want the game to succeed and their company to flourish and be successful.
But I will never agree with greedy, scamming method to push players to consume. Its unfair, ugly and unethical.

There is a moment where the ligne can not be crossed, and when Zenimax cross the line, we need to make heard our voice .

In the interest of everyone. Both Zenimax and their customers.

Nord knows many of us on this forum have tried to get our voices heard. For you the line is shady crown store tactics. For me, and many others, the line is lore-breaking crown store mounts... we see how our outcries have been addressed... with the release of more mounts.

How do you convince a for-profit company that a viable, working method of making money is something they shouldn't do? If anyone can do it... you and your ilk can. ZOS only announced CP Caps after @Deltia made his post. Of course, CPs aren't a direct revenue stream.

Good luck on your campaign. I hope you are successful.

nimander99

Wclcome to B2P kiddies, expect everything and be surprised buy nothing

Zorgon_The_Revenged

The glass motif, like the whole DLC, is very pretty looking but in the end is just a giant grind with a few "woohoo" moments.

Personally, I've run out of crafting mats, don't have the time to gather more and won't be spending that much real life money on a virtual vanity item.

JamilaRaj

Gidorick wrote: »

These tactics are required of this kind of revenue model. They wouldn't do this if they didn't work. Upset? Stop paying. That is the only way to effectively communicate with ZOS.

Hardly. There is no way these people would change their sick ways. If they got impression $50 motif did not cut it, they would sell the next motif for $75 or come up with entirely new, even more sick scam. They will keep doing it regardless of whether it works or not, until P2W market crashes, companies fold and people lose their jobs.
You can just help the crash happen sooner.

Gidorick wrote: »

How do you convince a for-profit company that a viable, working method of making money is something they shouldn't do? If anyone can do it... you and your ilk can. ZOS only announced CP Caps after @Deltia made his post. Of course, CPs aren't a direct revenue stream.

How come? They sell XP/CP boosters.
Besides, have they actually done something about CPs? And what would be the point anyway? The thread is almost three months old. Meanwhile, ZOS managed to cripple e.g. the noob campaign so badly that CPs issue there became secondary, if not outright non-issue.

firstdecan

nimander99 wrote: »

Wclcome to B2P kiddies, expect everything and be surprised buy nothing

I'm surprised they're charging $50.00 for a motif that doesn't have boob windows.

Sotha_Sil

And that's all there is to say.

helediron

The motif came way too soon to crown store. I was in good pace making motif pages. The day it came to store i had four pages readied. The day motif came i bought it and stopped the grid. It was the only challenge for crafters. Shame. Shame. Shame.

Troneon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrDSqODtEFM

Dagoth_Rac

They should sell motifs in crown store, but make them like other items available in game where the crown store items are not quite as good. For example, potions and food and drink in the crown store are not quite as good as in-game versions. They could do the same with motifs. Make it where items crafted with a crown store motif can only be upgraded to purple, not gold. Or items crafted with crown store motifs require twice the material. Or something like that. Something where crown store motifs are good, but in-game motifs are better.

ThePonzzz

Considering the time/gold you have to put into getting glass, compared to Imperial or Dwemer, the price at 5000 crowns is pretty low. I'd consider buying it if I cared for it. But I hated leveling up in Oblivion and Skyrim due to glass armor. Hate it. Unless it's the fin gleam.

Kuroinu

It's clear that many players are very passionate about crafting and how they acquire Motifs. I've found them fun to collect so far and I've yet to buy of them with crowns. But I've said this time and again throughout this thread, we have so little choice within the game itself to obtain these new motifs and fragments. Just because they can put something in the store doesn't mean they can neglect ways to also acquire it in game.

I have no problem with things being on the crown store, just give players more ways to obtain them in game. Also, some posts above are stating that "If we have more ways to obtain them in game, then most likely people won't buy them, so why would they add more way to obtain them and lose out on money?" and this is partly true, sales of these items would reduce for sure. But there are many other things on the crown store that lots of players buy and on top of that many are still subscribed to ESO+. So I find it hard to believe that the money they lose from motifs would have a great impact on the games development. So please stop defending the business model, it's here to stay and we can deal with that. But it's not going to hurt the game to encourage players to play within it.

Remember that those that subscribe to this game are paying for the same dull system we have for this motif, the only difference is that they get Crowns at the end of the month so they can buy it. But even so, many that are subbed don't like this method of obtaining motifs and would rather play the game to obtain it. It's just that the game currently doesn't provide the player with much choice.

Like I said in my first sentence, players really seem very passionate about crafting. While it's likely future motifs will be in the store and that's no problem. But please give us more choice within the game to acquire these type of things. As I said above, a loss in profits will not make or break the development of this game.

I've literately lost count on how many times I've repeated myself in this thread lol.

Tommy1979AtWar

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

It's clear that many players are very passionate about crafting and how they acquire Motifs. I've found them fun to collect so far and I've yet to buy of them with crowns. But I've said this time and again throughout this thread, we have so little choice within the game itself to obtain these new motifs and fragments. Just because they can put something in the store doesn't mean they can neglect ways to also acquire it in game.

I have no problem with things being on the crown store, just give players more ways to obtain them in game. Also, some posts above are stating that "If we have more ways to obtain them in game, then most likely people won't buy them, so why would they add more way to obtain them and lose out on money?" and this is partly true, sales of these items would reduce for sure. But there are many other things on the crown store that lots of players buy and on top of that many are still subscribed to ESO+. So I find it hard to believe that the money they lose from motifs would have a great impact on the games development. So please stop defending the business model, it's here to stay and we can deal with that. But it's not going to hurt the game to encourage players to play within it.

Remember that those that subscribe to this game are paying for the same dull system we have for this motif, the only difference is that they get Crowns at the end of the month so they can buy it. But even so, many that are subbed don't like this method of obtaining motifs and would rather play the game to obtain it. It's just that the game currently doesn't provide the player with much choice.

Like I said in my first sentence, players really seem very passionate about crafting. While it's likely future motifs will be in the store and that's no problem. But please give us more choice within the game to acquire these type of things. As I said above, a loss in profits will not make or break the development of this game.

I've literately lost count on how many times I've repeated myself in this thread lol.

Well said... again lol

Iluvrien

I agree totally, and presented you with today's Awesome.

As much as I have argued against the inclusion of motifs in the Crown Store (vociferously in some cases) if ZOS is absolutely set on doing so, then they could at least delay their release until the next DLC or make getting them in-game a little less of a pointlessly extended RNG grind.

Yes, ZOS might lose a few sales of the motif by delaying the release, but you have to weigh that against the lost revenue of people cancelling subs or leaving because they feel this harms the quality of the game.

I have had an active sub since PC launch. As I have said in this thread, if they do this with the next motif then they will be losing my sub money.

Forestd16b14_ESO

The fact that so many players are so butthurt by this is just amazing. It's a cosmetic style of armor not like your gonna have divine powers by having it.

Iluvrien

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

The fact that so many players are so butthurt by this is just amazing. It's a cosmetic style of armor not like your gonna have divine powers by having it.

This has been debunked in several threads, including this one and including the one that I linked to in my previous post.

It is cosmetic in its effect, not in its nature. A costume affects only the player wearing it. A motif book can affect every piece of equipment that a crafter creates. They are fundamentally different, and from that fundamental difference arises the different in value both to the crafter and to any potential guildmate/client/random that is interested in it. People are interested in their gear having specific styles, otherwise why would this motif be selling at all?

The fact that some people evidence so little understanding of the situation is just amazing.

TheValkyn

These arguments are so blown out of proportions.

Kuroinu

TheValkyn wrote: »

These arguments are so blown out of proportions.

No more than it needs to be. Even if the subject we are discussing is small in the eyes of some players, feedback is required to prevent such nonsense from effecting future content, whatever it may be. It's the only thing players can do and will do when something is done wrong. Provide feedback.

Many players will find that this topic doesn't concern them, yet. But without it, there's no limit to the possible "shenanigans" in future concerning the crown store and how things are implemented in game.

RSram

IMO putting items in the crown store that are also found in the game directly wrecks the game economy for those of us who can't afford to waste money on items that you can farm or harvest. So once again those with money get to manipulate the game's economy as far as Motifs are concerned.

It won't be too long before ZOS will start selling Grinding packs: For just a measly 100,000 crowns you too can instantly jump from VR1 to VR16 without the risk of carpal tunnel symptom!

NobleNerd

I knew this was coming. They only waited like 3 days before putting the experience scrolls into the Crown Store and they are suckers for putting easy, reskins, etc into the Crown Store.

This along with other things are slowly ruining crafting, a major part of my experience in the game.

BenevolentBowd

I agree that the Glass Motif hit the store too soon. Master crafters take pride in gathering motifs and crafting mats, often as a community effort with their guildies. This allows them to profit from obtaining the items sooner and reap the benefits until the rest of the community catches up.

danno8

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

I bought it as soon as i saw it.

The grind to get the chapters or the whole book is just way too much, good riddance to it.

i hope Zeni don't do this again.

Not the answer you were looking for @Elloa i know.
But if Zenimax hadn't made the grind to get the glass motif so incredibly long i wouldn't buy it in the Crown store.

Since the grind drove you to buy it in the crown store for 5000(!) crowns you better believe they will do this kind of thing again and again.

danno8

Troneon wrote: »

I seem to be using this video alot lately.

[snip]

My favourite part:

"OK but can't the core game just be fun?"
"No, no it has to be just barely fun, otherwise there is no incentive to pay to make it more fun!"

[edited to remove quote]