24/7 Access to IC Going Live just Ruined Design and Purpose of IC

Rescorla_ESO

I guess this is the best fix for performance lag possible. Brian Wheeler just killed Cyrodil PVP by making the PVP there meaningless for the most part.

Draehl

redspecter23 wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Everyone will flock to the campaigns with no lockout- Including myself and I want it to be gated. Players will take the path of least resistance to remain competitive. It must be systemic across the whole game OR gated campaigns have to offer some type of significantly elevated drops then there will be no point and the zone will lose that special element.

Instant ****ing gratification is ruining all modern MMOs. And I say that working 9 hours a day and spending 3 hours commuting. What's the point, regardless of the amount of playtime you have when everything is so simple and cheap? Go watch a movie if you want something so shallow.

and when you log on every night to find that the 2 hours you have to spend will be spent reclaiming keeps to gain access?

I'll spend my time fighting over something meaningful =D

Thalmor-Nordmaster

Lag will prevent most of those fights. Azura's Star (time now) is terrible 300-4750 as I post this very little fighting going on and the lag is unbearable

Rescorla if its meaningless then Is it not Meaningless now?

Meaningful is such a straw-man argument.

Rescorla_ESO

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Lag will prevent most of those fights. Azura's Star (time now) is terrible 300-4750 as I post this very little fighting going on and the lag is unbearable

Rescorla if its meaningless then Is it not Meaningless now?

Meaningful is such a straw-man argument.

Current Cyrodil PVP on the live servers for the most part is not meaningful, which is why most of the hardcore PVP guilds left shortly after launch. When you can't get into IC because you don't control enough keeps, then PVP in Cyrodil becomes meaningful. With this bad decision there won't be much of a reason to go into Cyrodil anymore because pretty much all of the action will be inside IC.

sagitter

lordrichter wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

How about just needing the gate keeps cause again this is a PAID DLC and if some pays for it and can't access it cause some other faction is being rude that's gonna cause said players to quiet cause they wasted there money on content they can't even get into.

The OP is right. I think it will be a grave error to let people into Imperial City with no requisite achievement in Cyrodiil.

As a buyer of the Imperial City DLC (via ESO Plus for the moment), I expect that Imperial City will be gated and that there will be some manner of entry criteria, one that is more than just sneaking around in Cyrodiil trying to avoid everyone. I do not expect to just be able to walk into the City any time I please. I expect to be locked out at times. I am expecting Imperial City to have a negative impact on Cyrodiil, even if gated. There will be plenty of discussions about this after Imperial City is released, so I won't go into it in detail now.

This this this and op i quote them, ppl saying i pay than i want to enter everytime... you are missing the spirit of IC and pvp around it. IC is a part of Cyrodiil, not a separate map, the objective of owning main keeps, to get the access, it's exciting, let's give it a try , than we can talk.

Halfwitte

IC comes gated you have to buy the content or subscribe to actually get into IC. There shouldn't have to be a second gate to go through to actually enjoy the content you just bought. If you're a brand new player you still have to level a character to 10 to be able to enjoy IC which is another gate. If one day I want to play in IC, but I don't feel like Cyrodiil I shouldn't have to go to Cyrodiil and capture some meaningless keeps to be able to actually do what I want to do in IC. ZOS already knows it's going to be a Gank Fest. They laughed all about it all over their twitch feed. They don't care not one bit. It will be like GW2 pvp join the bigger zerg and kill everything and avoid any zerg bigger than yours or play in the off hours when the zergs are gone for the night. Give everyone access with no gates.

ESO+ members should get an IC Zone thats a PVP free zone so everyone can enjoy the content risk free without all the hassle. Those of you who want it gated, this is the perfect gate for you. No reason to fight for access just go in and have fun without looking over your shoulder or having to waste 2 skill slots on a mage guild ability so you don't get murked by the gankers. Best of all its gated for you. You get a gate and you have to work for it since it costs $15 a month! It will probably be a lot less laggy than Cyrodiil or the IC you don't pay for with your sub. Best of all you will get all the new gear faster! Best Gate idea ever conceived! Join ESO+ for a non gated IC with Zero Gankers and double the TV stone multipliers over non subscribers! An IC that's actually FUN not just any fun ERIC WROBEL FUN!!!!

#EricWrobel4President
Bringing fun back to America 1 inexplicable nerf at a time.

eliisra

sagitter wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

How about just needing the gate keeps cause again this is a PAID DLC and if some pays for it and can't access it cause some other faction is being rude that's gonna cause said players to quiet cause they wasted there money on content they can't even get into.

The OP is right. I think it will be a grave error to let people into Imperial City with no requisite achievement in Cyrodiil.

As a buyer of the Imperial City DLC (via ESO Plus for the moment), I expect that Imperial City will be gated and that there will be some manner of entry criteria, one that is more than just sneaking around in Cyrodiil trying to avoid everyone. I do not expect to just be able to walk into the City any time I please. I expect to be locked out at times. I am expecting Imperial City to have a negative impact on Cyrodiil, even if gated. There will be plenty of discussions about this after Imperial City is released, so I won't go into it in detail now.

This this this and op i quote them, ppl saying i pay than i want to enter everytime... you are missing the spirit of IC and pvp around it. IC is a part of Cyrodiil, not a separate map, the objective of owning main keeps, to get the access, it's exciting, let's give it a try , than we can talk.

No. It's not "exiting" to take keeps lol. Are you kidding me? Many of us have been fighting over the same objectives since beta, you know. Every morning you log in and the map is one coloured again and again, so you have to start from scratch doing endless PvDoor. It's the opposite of fun.

I've been waiting eagerly for Imperial City for almost 1.5 year now, so I rather leave hours of shooting at walls, out of it.

Besides, most of the guys asking for gated IC, they dont care about the "spirit". They just want to assign themselves to a one coloured campaign, where they nightcap and grind stones all day long without annoying PvP. They want IC to be a PvE reward zone for glorious nightcappers, carebears and zergers.

Only argument I actually care for here is warnings about lag and performance. Might get very bad, with 3 factions in there fighting, while rest of Cyrodiil is empty. I could possibly change my mind about free access later on, because of that.

Farorin

I personally hope that they keep access restriction in the campaigns, but that one of the campaigns allows for free access.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

eliisra wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

How about just needing the gate keeps cause again this is a PAID DLC and if some pays for it and can't access it cause some other faction is being rude that's gonna cause said players to quiet cause they wasted there money on content they can't even get into.

The OP is right. I think it will be a grave error to let people into Imperial City with no requisite achievement in Cyrodiil.

As a buyer of the Imperial City DLC (via ESO Plus for the moment), I expect that Imperial City will be gated and that there will be some manner of entry criteria, one that is more than just sneaking around in Cyrodiil trying to avoid everyone. I do not expect to just be able to walk into the City any time I please. I expect to be locked out at times. I am expecting Imperial City to have a negative impact on Cyrodiil, even if gated. There will be plenty of discussions about this after Imperial City is released, so I won't go into it in detail now.

This this this and op i quote them, ppl saying i pay than i want to enter everytime... you are missing the spirit of IC and pvp around it. IC is a part of Cyrodiil, not a separate map, the objective of owning main keeps, to get the access, it's exciting, let's give it a try , than we can talk.

No. It's not "exiting" to take keeps lol. Are you kidding me? Many of us have been fighting over the same objectives since beta, you know. Every morning you log in and the map is one coloured again and again, so you have to start from scratch doing endless PvDoor. It's the opposite of fun.

I've been waiting eagerly for Imperial City for almost 1.5 year now, so I rather leave hours of shooting at walls, out of it.
Same Here
Besides, most of the guys asking for gated IC, they dont care about the "spirit". They just want to assign themselves to a one coloured campaign, where they nightcap and grind stones all day long without annoying PvP. They want IC to be a PvE reward zone for glorious nightcappers, carebears and zergers.

Only argument I actually care for here is warnings about lag and performance. Might get very bad, with 3 factions in there fighting, while rest of Cyrodiil is empty. I could possibly change my mind about free access later on, because of that.

^ This person knows where its at !!!
Lets talk about the guilds attempts at player balance these past few months LOL that worked out well didnt it.

Performance is going to get worse not better server/fps refresh and calculations of stats damage and other data are going to become more intensive. This is both above ground and below. Again Zenimax HOPE IS NOT A METHOD and you cant FEEL your way out of this you need to fix this!!

All of the shady stuff going on in pvp such as lets all go to a cave 20 each and grind each other for emp points right now shows the level that people are willing to stoop to.

More shadyness awaits for IC Alt farmers are very resourcefull.

Pirhana7_ESO

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Everyone will flock to the campaigns with no lockout- Including myself and I want it to be gated. Players will take the path of least resistance to remain competitive. It must be systemic across the whole game OR gated campaigns have to offer some type of significantly elevated drops then there will be no point and the zone will lose that special element.

Instant ****ing gratification is ruining all modern MMOs. And I say that working 9 hours a day and spending 3 hours commuting. What's the point, regardless of the amount of playtime you have when everything is so simple and cheap? Go watch a movie if you want something so shallow.

and when you log on every night to find that the 2 hours you have to spend will be spent reclaiming keeps to gain access?

They'll try and justify spending 2,500 crowns while they're stuck doing the exact same content since release. Honestly, I don't think anyone is against fair competition in Cyrodiil, it's just not fair until ZoS fixes the population imbalances. Having to spend 2,500 crowns for an unfair experience just doesn't sound like fun to me, unless you happen to be on the winning side with unrestricted access.

But thats not how it would be. The "winning side" would have most of their forces in IC leaving barely any in Cyrodiil to defend. The other alliances will take control. The control will switch hands every few hours because of the design. Yes the stronger side will have control for long times because they will be able to take it back faster when they get kicked out but each side will have control.

Pirhana7_ESO

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Pirhana7 >I dont under stand this "I want it now without working for it" generation

Pirhana they are not working for it they are buying it.that's the catch. They did not like the terms of sale and simply stated so. Zos renegotiated with a caveat. Most seem happy. Take it for what it is . Or dont your choice. Play or dont again your choice.

As for ruining PVP LOL LOL OOLLOLO nope if the exploits into keeps,zergs,hacks and bots haven't chased anyone out of cyrodiil or ruined PVP to date. Pretty much its bulletproof. What is not bullet proof is the revenue stream. Zos gets feedback from far more than these forums. The capital outlay for consoles and IC is alot and zos needs to recoup that. Let ZOS run their company. If anyone wants to help Crank out a C.V and send it to them.

Everyone who crys ruin and doom to date has been proven wrong by ZOS.

This is not their only product. And this is not DAoc if that is what you want to play they still have a server open

The idea and whole purpose of bring that system was that you were buying it so you had the oppertunity to fight for it with your alliance. Its a reward. It the same as paying $ to enter a competatition that gives you a chance to win the grand prize.

Yes you are correct that cyroiil is plagued by all those things you listed. thats why we were so excited for the IC system, it was the thing taht could save the PVP system for us. Something that made the PVP so great that it was still worth doing even with all the exploits and hacks. The gated system would also bring small group fights to IC instead of zergs. Now the current non gated actually takes away from Cyrodiil instead of helping it with purpose.

Pirhana7_ESO

Halfwitte wrote: »

IC comes gated you have to buy the content or subscribe to actually get into IC. There shouldn't have to be a second gate to go through to actually enjoy the content you just bought. If you're a brand new player you still have to level a character to 10 to be able to enjoy IC which is another gate. If one day I want to play in IC, but I don't feel like Cyrodiil I shouldn't have to go to Cyrodiil and capture some meaningless keeps to be able to actually do what I want to do in IC. ZOS already knows it's going to be a Gank Fest. They laughed all about it all over their twitch feed. They don't care not one bit. It will be like GW2 pvp join the bigger zerg and kill everything and avoid any zerg bigger than yours or play in the off hours when the zergs are gone for the night. Give everyone access with no gates.

ESO+ members should get an IC Zone thats a PVP free zone so everyone can enjoy the content risk free without all the hassle. Those of you who want it gated, this is the perfect gate for you. No reason to fight for access just go in and have fun without looking over your shoulder or having to waste 2 skill slots on a mage guild ability so you don't get murked by the gankers. Best of all its gated for you. You get a gate and you have to work for it since it costs $15 a month! It will probably be a lot less laggy than Cyrodiil or the IC you don't pay for with your sub. Best of all you will get all the new gear faster! Best Gate idea ever conceived! Join ESO+ for a non gated IC with Zero Gankers and double the TV stone multipliers over non subscribers! An IC that's actually FUN not just any fun ERIC WROBEL FUN!!!!

#EricWrobel4President
Bringing fun back to America 1 inexplicable nerf at a time.

With 24/7 access to all 3 sides you wont ever be able to enjoy the content that you bought, zergs will run you over every 5 minutes and you will keep losing your stones. with gated acces via keeps in Cyrodiil you will actually get to enjoy the content when your side controls it. access will also change hands frequently because the controlling side will have most its forces in insdie IC leaving none to defend in Cyrodiil. So each side basically takes turns to enjoys teh content. BUT it also creates a rush and excitement when access changes hands. It creates an environment where enemy zergs are not at and small skirmishes happen. Its basically win all around but too many people dont realize this until they expeirence the system.

SeptimusDova

Nothing is going to save the PVP system until the adamantium banhammer falls on cheaters and exploiters.

OGLezard

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Nothing is going to save the PVP system until the adamantium banhammer falls on cheaters and exploiters.

and we all know that will never happen. ZoS dont care one bit. Othewise alot of the well known abusers would NOT be here. Sadly they are.

SeptimusDova

Original Gansta Lizzad you are correct. And that will be the downfall that is the "Cancer" that is going to put an end "to the long term health of the Game"

lol doin some forensic sniffing on code I found one o the guilty on another site with the same account name openly working on the things that should keep zos security up at night.
Oh well ZOS dollar not mine.

By the way I don't see access staying open to all for long as soon as numbers drop down I see it reverting back to the 6 keeps its a zos thing. Nothing is set in stone except Ignore the Argonians, Spite the Khajiit and nerf templars to the ground.

Elijah_Crow

I just can't think it's good for all factions to have access at all times. I would rather see it on an hourly cycle than this.

OGLezard

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Original Gansta Lizzad you are correct. And that will be the downfall that is the "Cancer" that is going to put an end "to the long term health of the Game"

lol doin some forensic sniffing on code I found one o the guilty on another site with the same account name openly working on the things that should keep zos security up at night.
Oh well ZOS dollar not mine.

By the way I don't see access staying open to all for long as soon as numbers drop down I see it reverting back to the 6 keeps its a zos thing. Nothing is set in stone except Ignore the Argonians, Spite the Khajiit and nerf templars to the ground.

I found the same person too....... I think he was owned by the core..........@septimusDova

ADarklore

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

The whole reason Darkness Falls was a success (this is based 100% on Darkness Falls FYI) was because you fought for access , it felt important, it created cohesive communities, you accomplished something, it created VALUE.

ZOS is really dropping the ball if it listens to players who think only of themselves and not the environment or greater goals of the game.

With all due respect, WHY do people keep mentioning games as "being a success" when the game is not even available anymore?!? If it were so successful, wouldn't it be still going today because of the overwhelming popularity? I see this all the time, "ESO should be more like..." another defunct game. NO, ESO should not be like a game that died because it wasn't popular enough to keep it going. I also have to cringe when I see people talk about, "ESO should be more like..." my favorite game... which IS still going, and yet, here that player is leaving their 'favorite game' to play something else. Well, if your favorite game was so great, why did you stop playing it?!?

Believe it or not, ESO's PvP player base is a minority in the game... and making content that appeals only to a minority, and then gating it for an even greater minority that wants it gated, would be a huge mistake. Also keep in mind that MOST players, especially console players, will not even be aware of the whole 'gating' aspect when they buy the DLC and expect to be able to jump right in and play it- imagine the outrage if they paid for something and had no way of accessing it other than jumping through even more gates. While that may make the minority of the minority of the minority happy, it would NOT please the majority of the minority that is PvP players.

OGLezard

ADarklore wrote: »

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

The whole reason Darkness Falls was a success (this is based 100% on Darkness Falls FYI) was because you fought for access , it felt important, it created cohesive communities, you accomplished something, it created VALUE.

ZOS is really dropping the ball if it listens to players who think only of themselves and not the environment or greater goals of the game.

With all due respect, WHY do people keep mentioning games as "being a success" when the game is not even available anymore?!? If it were so successful, wouldn't it be still going today because of the overwhelming popularity? I see this all the time, "ESO should be more like..." another defunct game. NO, ESO should not be like a game that died because it wasn't popular enough to keep it going. I also have to cringe when I see people talk about, "ESO should be more like..." my favorite game... which IS still going, and yet, here that player is leaving their 'favorite game' to play something else. Well, if your favorite game was so great, why did you stop playing it?!?

Believe it or not, ESO's PvP player base is a minority in the game... and making content that appeals only to a minority, and then gating it for an even greater minority that wants it gated, would be a huge mistake. Also keep in mind that MOST players, especially console players, will not even be aware of the whole 'gating' aspect when they buy the DLC and expect to be able to jump right in and play it- imagine the outrage if they paid for something and had no way of accessing it other than jumping through even more gates. While that may make the minority of the minority of the minority happy, it would NOT please the majority of the minority that is PvP players.

Then I feel bad for people who dont research things before purchasing......... I do believe that is why it is called impulse buying no? Those who blindly go into situations deserve the outcome. Should they not look up any information on it and just buy it, that is their fault. Not ZoS

SeptimusDova

OG correct

SeptimusDova

7 your assumptions on force placement are unfounded and no basis for argument. Never assume what a force may or may not do. They know they need numbers up top to hold keeps and they will maintain those numbers.

RiF

Force Rotation

edited to add a Y

OGLezard

SeptimusDova wrote: »

OG correct

sad how easy it is to find out those who use and create such things, but ZoS lacks the ability to do it themselves huh :P @SeptimusDova ........

AhPook_Is_Here

I think this is great in conjunction with the fact that the leader will be able to queue a whole group into whatever their home-server is. It will make it very simple for zergs to just queue into each IC one after another to efficiently farm stones from small and inferior groups of players while avoiding other large competitive groups. I don't think ZoS could have made better choices back to back.

OGLezard

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I think this is great in conjunction with the fact that the leader will be able to queue a whole group into whatever their home-server is. It will make it very simple for zergs to just queue into each IC one after another to efficiently farm stones from small and inferior groups of players while avoiding other large competitive groups. I don't think ZoS could have made better choices back to back.

Sad that sir wheeler went against his word on the "remove travel to player" and "cant enter a campaign unless you are assigned as home or guest" huh...... such is the ZoS way I suppose. Promise something amazing that would ACTUALLY make the game (pvp) better... then go against it

SeptimusDova

Practice makes Politicians

wraith808

ADarklore wrote: »

With all due respect, WHY do people keep mentioning games as "being a success" when the game is not even available anymore?!? If it were so successful, wouldn't it be still going today because of the overwhelming popularity? I see this all the time, "ESO should be more like..." another defunct game. NO, ESO should not be like a game that died because it wasn't popular enough to keep it going. I also have to cringe when I see people talk about, "ESO should be more like..." my favorite game... which IS still going, and yet, here that player is leaving their 'favorite game' to play something else. Well, if your favorite game was so great, why did you stop playing it?!?

Not that I agree with those players, but there's a real fallacy in your statement. Games have a lifetime. And no matter how good they are, they will succumb to time unless the developers actively work to extend that lifetime by remaking and reinventing themselves.

That doesn't by any means indicate that they don't have something to contribute to current MMOs and features in more modern/younger MMOs to help them possibly extend their appeal and lifetime.

In other words (said in a grandpappy tone) Respec' those that came befo'!

SeptimusDova

OG I personally gave them the bot code and other samples before the game was out of beta and yet we still had those bots. My helping zos out and things of that nature has been over since they waited and gambled that the bots wouldnt work. I could trace down names and address and so forth but why. It's a zos problem I am retired wait until they see whats coming down the pike.

Rescorla_ESO

ADarklore wrote: »

bob.ellisonb16_ESO wrote: »

The whole reason Darkness Falls was a success (this is based 100% on Darkness Falls FYI) was because you fought for access , it felt important, it created cohesive communities, you accomplished something, it created VALUE.

ZOS is really dropping the ball if it listens to players who think only of themselves and not the environment or greater goals of the game.

With all due respect, WHY do people keep mentioning games as "being a success" when the game is not even available anymore?!? If it were so successful, wouldn't it be still going today because of the overwhelming popularity? I see this all the time, "ESO should be more like..." another defunct game. NO, ESO should not be like a game that died because it wasn't popular enough to keep it going. I also have to cringe when I see people talk about, "ESO should be more like..." my favorite game... which IS still going, and yet, here that player is leaving their 'favorite game' to play something else. Well, if your favorite game was so great, why did you stop playing it?!?

Believe it or not, ESO's PvP player base is a minority in the game... and making content that appeals only to a minority, and then gating it for an even greater minority that wants it gated, would be a huge mistake. Also keep in mind that MOST players, especially console players, will not even be aware of the whole 'gating' aspect when they buy the DLC and expect to be able to jump right in and play it- imagine the outrage if they paid for something and had no way of accessing it other than jumping through even more gates. While that may make the minority of the minority of the minority happy, it would NOT please the majority of the minority that is PvP players.

I don't get your logic and reasoning. IC is a PVP-oriented DLC. The opinions, desires and wishes of PVE players should not be factored in at all when it comes to how PVP in IC is designed. When Orsinium, a PVE DLC, is released, should the opinions, desireS and wishes of the PVP community affect its design?

As to why people keep mentioning DAOC, it's because it's the only long term successful MMO that had a similar design concept to what IC could have been. The players who played both DAOC and TESO knew what was successful and well liked in DAOC would likely be successful and well liked in TESO.

Draehl

eliisra wrote: »

Besides, most of the guys asking for gated IC, they dont care about the "spirit". They just want to assign themselves to a one coloured campaign, where they nightcap and grind stones all day long without annoying PvP. They want IC to be a PvE reward zone for glorious nightcappers, carebears and zergers.

Hardly. I'd just prefer to see more games with more interconnectivity and meaning in the world. For example, I'd also like to see resource gathering/donations incorporated into Cyrodiil to improve keeps/guards/etc. as well as the delves and other locations in Cyrodiil like bridges or crossroads having some value too. MMOs need to advance beyond "go in this area and fight" to have more meaning, almost on a war/world-simulation level.

SeptimusDova

Draehl
Yes Cyrodiil needs more depth to it. It feels shallow and so static. Even the Gobi Desert has more to offer