24/7 Access to IC Going Live just Ruined Design and Purpose of IC

kojou

Cathexis wrote: »

The most noteworthy problem with limoted access is that team orange will just push out DC on all the can!paigns except for during off hours on azura and then they will grind up all the loot and gain a further advantage in cyrodiil keeping DC out permanently. That doesnt even account for all the sorcs that exploit into aleswell. So having restricted access is flawed.

Team orange... Lol. In my alliance it is team purple. I guess team red is in bed with everyone.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

Ah-pook make sure you do that at the IC access doors areas (not the safe zone areas but away from that) . Thats where the farming is going to get real. That's if the three entry's remain in the game. Don't forget Power-twins activated

Thalmor-Nordmaster

Are you saying that team red sleeps around! Surely not Ebonhard Promiscuous !

Iggybot

Instead of making it potentially gated for one campaign later on, why don't they just make it ungated for one campaign right at the start and everyone that wants to get in right away can home / guest that campaign from the get go. Everyone else can go pvp for it.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

Iggy I think that's in the future works. Some campaigns gated, some not. and no Cjthibs its not a carebear issue that's the tv stones that's a carebear issue. Its a money /time issue for most. Zos will find a decent compromise. They have already stated that they can add campaigns to handle additional load. They can do the same for gated/non gated.

ZOS need the money from their customers to continue to provide content. When you espouse a take it or leave it approach to a product you may get the leave it more than you bargained for. Are those of you who are for gated content willing to pay 44.97 a month to make up for zenimax's lost revenue? How about double that?

Give the customers what they want. That is good business.Stay away from things that may take you to court that's also good business.Well it's a good life model too.

Nebthet78

Iggybot wrote: »

Instead of making it potentially gated for one campaign later on, why don't they just make it ungated for one campaign right at the start and everyone that wants to get in right away can home / guest that campaign from the get go. Everyone else can go pvp for it.

This exactly.

Or, make a PvE campaign. You bought it and want access, there you go. BUT, have No Tel Var stone multipliers or anything like that. But you want to PvP IC, then you need to play by the rules and actually work for access.

This decision is going to ruin Cyrodiil. There is no reason now for there to be an Emperor, other than wanting to get the costume. No reason to gain AP because Tel Var stones have taken their place. No incentive to fight for anything in Cyrodiil.

ZOS shot themselves in the knee with this decision.

Mr_Nobody

I played DAoC for 7 or 8 years and I can can do nothing but agree with you. I did not enter Darkness Falls too often myself, neither I cared for it much but the idea behind it was perfect for those who liked the mixture of PVP in a PVEish zone. I would just go in and kill the gankers that lowbies trying to level get killed by and then asked in zone/region chat for help.

But hey, since the whole PvP/Balance system is supposed to be like DAoC's... it is not. Huge inbalance issues, zergblobs having superior power etc. A well organized group of 8 could take down zergs/zergblobs of 100's in DAoC... IN SECONDS. And that was the punishment of playing stupid-like and stacking on top of eachother for zergers. While here its vice-versa since people stacking on top of eachother gain superiority over those who do not and try to play it all tactically. ESO proposes easy-to-play game with minimal to zero skill required to succeed for large-scale combats.

#HibBombGroups4Life

#REMOVEPURGE

OGLezard

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Iggy I think that's in the future works. Some campaigns gated, some not. and no Cjthibs its not a carebear issue that's the tv stones that's a carebear issue. Its a money /time issue for most. Zos will find a decent compromise. They have already stated that they can add campaigns to handle additional load. They can do the same for gated/non gated.

ZOS need the money from their customers to continue to provide content. When you espouse a take it or leave it approach to a product you may get the leave it more than you bargained for. Are those of you who are for gated content willing to pay 44.97 a month to make up for zenimax's lost revenue? How about double that?

Give the customers what they want. That is good business.Stay away from things that may take you to court that's also good business.Well it's a good life model too.

I keep seeing this lol before anyone even bought the dlc it was announced that it would be GATED meaning your faction had to earn entering it. Therefor no legal issues. Everyone KNEW what they were buying long before they bought it :P

WolffenBloodseeker

Iggybot wrote: »

Instead of making it potentially gated for one campaign later on, why don't they just make it ungated for one campaign right at the start and everyone that wants to get in right away can home / guest that campaign from the get go. Everyone else can go pvp for it.

This would be ideal to apease everyone

Personaly i want IC to be dependant on home keeps, just like darkness fall in DAOC it will create an objective for PVP, to fight for the crown jewel of Cyrodiil! and it will create an adrenaline hush when you gain or lose acess to the imperial city (also as bonus it will balance the zergs)

Yesterday i was playing in the PTS as DC, we were fighting against both AD and EP in the memorial distric, they were pushing us from both sides and we were losing ground, then some of our players took an AD keep and gated their acess to the city, this created the perfect oportunity, we pushed AD and cleared them from the city and then we were able to make a stand and push EP back, it was amazing, specially the adrenaline rush of the fight

Levo18

I support this decision. If i dont have Access why should i pay for it? I will just un-sub If they limit Access. What about people who cant play 8-12 hours a day? Should they wait till their faction gains access and then enjoy IC for 30 mins because they have to go to sleep? Money well spent.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

OG my comment on the court was about business in general not byroms pandering. And not zos at all. I think the only court zos would ever have to worry about would be a tax court if they shady lady'd their accounting books. A general business example would be GM with Ignitions in Cobalts. That could of been avoided.

No one has bought it yet. Its not out. And it was said also that that was subject to change and Brian made the change. It may or may not be permanent. Decisions above Brian are Financial in scope. It is ZOS game we are customers.

WolffenBloodseeker

Levo18 wrote: »

I support this decision. If i dont have Access why should i pay for it? I will just un-sub If they limit Access. What about people who cant play 8-12 hours a day? Should they wait till their faction gains access and then enjoy IC for 30 mins because they have to go to sleep? Money well spent.

instead of waiting just join your faction's effort to get acess to the city and then you'll have a fun in PVP and even more fun when you achieve the reward of entering the imperial city and playing in it for some time, a win-win situation don't you think?
(this coming from someone who can usualy play only 2hours max a day or my wife would kill me)

Levo18

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

I support this decision. If i dont have Access why should i pay for it? I will just un-sub If they limit Access. What about people who cant play 8-12 hours a day? Should they wait till their faction gains access and then enjoy IC for 30 mins because they have to go to sleep? Money well spent.

instead of waiting just join your faction's effort to get acess to the city and then you'll have a fun in PVP and even more fun when you achieve the reward of entering the imperial city and playing in it for some time, a win-win situation don't you think?
(this coming from someone who can usualy play only 2hours max a day or my wife would kill me)

I agree. Sure its better to earn your access and fight for it but i play on console. And in daytime my faction usually only holds 2 castles so im screwed if i want to go to IC. If it was free content i wouldnt care but you have to pay money for it that bothers me.

Hiero_Glyph

The reason IC was changed is because ESO changed from a subscription-based MMO to a buy-to-play one using paid DLC. DAoC's Darkness Falls is included with the mandatory subscription so players are not paying any extra for access, regardless of it it was available to them or not. In the case of IC, players are paying for the content so when access is denied to them (through no fault of their own other than selecting an arbitrary alliance when they create a character) the results can be less than desirable. Besides, more access means more money for ZoS, which means more content over time.

Now the good news is that ZoS plans to add gating mecahnics back to IC once the dust has settled. The problem is that unless they also fix the population imbalance issues then it will be no better than the current Cyrodiil campaigns, which are a mess. At worst they just add gated access to a few campaigns and let the players who want to fight over IC do just that. At best they will solve a far bigger issue that has been plaguing ESO for over a year and provide the means or incentive to actually fight for an alliance with a lower, active population.

Personally I'm hoping for a mercenary mode allowing for players to fight for any side they want as this would also allow players to group with anyone, even friends' alts from other alliances (but an incentive may be needed as well). Anyway, ZoS has a lot of work to do with Cyrodiil before they start preventing players from accessing content that has been purchased separately. Let's hope they are up to it so we can all get the true war in Cyrodiil that most of us want.

Draehl

The problem is that instant gratification players (not to be confused with casual players) is more often than not don't know what they want, just that they want it now- little do they know that when devs cater to them it dulls the game down, the game subsequently gets boring/loses meaning, they get bored and quit. Thus starts the cycle anew for the next MMO they all swarm to, ruining yet another game with their outspoken but flawed views and demands.

redspecter23

Gated access on all campaigns will upset some people. This will cause some people to not buy the content. Why create a situation where people don't want to buy your content when you don't have to create this situation at all. Once campaign with always on access is great for the types of players that have no desire to fight for multiple hours to open the front door to paid content while all the other campaigns are fine for people like the OP. Is it so bad to allow one campaign to have always on access?

sadownik

redspecter23 wrote: »

Gated access on all campaigns will upset some people. This will cause some people to not buy the content. Why create a situation where people don't want to buy your content when you don't have to create this situation at all. Once campaign with always on access is great for the types of players that have no desire to fight for multiple hours to open the front door to paid content while all the other campaigns are fine for people like the OP. Is it so bad to allow one campaign to have always on access?

Its bad to allow full acces on all campaigns and tahts what we have now.

nimander99

sadownik wrote: »

I personally udnerstand people that wanted unlimited acces, i really do. But as pvp player i know that it will lead to trouble. Empty campaigns, zergs running in the IC, no it wont be good.

Its going to be this no matter what bro...

Elsonso

redspecter23 wrote: »

Gated access on all campaigns will upset some people. This will cause some people to not buy the content. Why create a situation where people don't want to buy your content when you don't have to create this situation at all. Once campaign with always on access is great for the types of players that have no desire to fight for multiple hours to open the front door to paid content while all the other campaigns are fine for people like the OP. Is it so bad to allow one campaign to have always on access?

Yeah, it is bad.

If they have multiple campaigns and one of them is ungated, that will be the one that is more likely to attract PVE players looking to farm the Imperial City. There will be no PVP access restrictions and they can home on that campaign and enter the city any time they want. Cyrodiil will be largely ignored, except for PVP players having fun and PVE players looking for skyshards, delves, etc.

In the City, it will be fish in a barrel. PVE players with no desire to do PVP will have to pay their 80% TV stone tithe to the PVP guilds or go home. If I am a PVP guild looking for easy Tel Var stones, this is my new home.

Rules will have to be put in place to protect the PVE players from gankers, starting with special areas where they cannot be attacked, even if just for a short time, and including a change in the tithe payed by players that get killed.

As unfortunate as it is, the only fair option is to gate the content behind Cyrodiil achievements. The business model will not allow them to give this out for free, but as far as the game is concerned, that is the proper answer... free content gated behind keep requirements.

Pirhana7_ESO

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

I played DAoC for 7 or 8 years and I can can do nothing but agree with you. I did not enter Darkness Falls too often myself, neither I cared for it much but the idea behind it was perfect for those who liked the mixture of PVP in a PVEish zone. I would just go in and kill the gankers that lowbies trying to level get killed by and then asked in zone/region chat for help.

But hey, since the whole PvP/Balance system is supposed to be like DAoC's... it is not. Huge inbalance issues, zergblobs having superior power etc. A well organized group of 8 could take down zergs/zergblobs of 100's in DAoC... IN SECONDS. And that was the punishment of playing stupid-like and stacking on top of eachother for zergers. While here its vice-versa since people stacking on top of eachother gain superiority over those who do not and try to play it all tactically. ESO proposes easy-to-play game with minimal to zero skill required to succeed for large-scale combats.

#HibBombGroups4Life

#REMOVEPURGE

This is whay alot of people are just hanging in there with ESO until Camelot Unchained launches

Pirhana7_ESO

Levo18 wrote: »

I support this decision. If i dont have Access why should i pay for it? I will just un-sub If they limit Access. What about people who cant play 8-12 hours a day? Should they wait till their faction gains access and then enjoy IC for 30 mins because they have to go to sleep? Money well spent.

And i am guessing you never played DAOC and experienced Darkness Falls...... like everyone else that wants 24/7 IC access.

YOU may have 24/7 access... but cant enjoy it or do anything in there. You will die to zergs every 5 minutes and lose your stones. You cant get anything accomplished. When faction control access is there you can actually do stuff inside but still have to be careful and watch your back. Yes you may not have access for hours, but when you do get access you can actually do stuff inside. When all 3 sides have 24/7 access you can rarely get anything done, people will just get fustrated and quit or do other things.

Just because your side doesn't currently have access doesn't mean the game stops for you..... Do other things or help your alliance in Cyrodiil. chances are you will get access soon, especially since the enemy alliance has no defenders left in Cyrodiil.

I dont under stand this "I want it now without working for it" generation

Pirhana7_ESO

redspecter23 wrote: »

Gated access on all campaigns will upset some people. This will cause some people to not buy the content. Why create a situation where people don't want to buy your content when you don't have to create this situation at all. Once campaign with always on access is great for the types of players that have no desire to fight for multiple hours to open the front door to paid content while all the other campaigns are fine for people like the OP. Is it so bad to allow one campaign to have always on access?

It was annouced that the IC would lauch with 24/7 access on ALL campaigns

It works both ways. The non gated mechanci makes me an alot of people not want to buy it because we know its ruining the whole IC system and will just be a disaster inside IC. IT actually also makes alot of people just flat out want to quit ESO be the 24/7 access mechanif the IC will completely ruin Cyrodiil and ESO PVP

Thalmor-Nordmaster

Pirhana7 >I dont under stand this "I want it now without working for it" generation

Pirhana they are not working for it they are buying it.that's the catch. They did not like the terms of sale and simply stated so. Zos renegotiated with a caveat. Most seem happy. Take it for what it is . Or dont your choice. Play or dont again your choice.

As for ruining PVP LOL LOL OOLLOLO nope if the exploits into keeps,zergs,hacks and bots haven't chased anyone out of cyrodiil or ruined PVP to date. Pretty much its bulletproof. What is not bullet proof is the revenue stream. Zos gets feedback from far more than these forums. The capital outlay for consoles and IC is alot and zos needs to recoup that. Let ZOS run their company. If anyone wants to help Crank out a C.V and send it to them.

Everyone who crys ruin and doom to date has been proven wrong by ZOS.

This is not their only product. And this is not DAoc if that is what you want to play they still have a server open

wraith808

OGLezard wrote: »

Reverting the change to gated access further proves ZoS only cares about what the care bears want. If you dont want gated access then DONT buy the darn dlc...... everyone was under the assumption that it would be gated because that was the rule set they were putting in place to avoid taking away from the main pvp. Now people are citing legal things when OFC they KNEW it would be gated BEFORE they bought it, which NEGATES any legal issues what so ever (paying for something and not being able to access it)

GG zos, thanks for caving in. Next up will be the difficulty will be adjusted, new dungeons will be scaled WAY down in difficulty, and TV stones can be earned outside of anyone owning the dlc just so it is "fair"

No, it means that they didn't get enough time to test all of the variables, and realize it. I want gated access- but I also want it to be achievable by all. And they didn't get enough time on PTS to make sure this is true, and presumably, they can't move the release date at this point.

kevlarto_ESO

First couple of weeks of IC were all access, when they copied over the EU characters, it changed to home keeps but as far as I know there has been no huge battles to control home keeps and access, maybe next time dev's should mix up the keeps and at least see if the access works. /shrug

Recremen

@ Everyone thinking gated access is a desirable condition for PvPers: have you considered no? A lot of us like having all 3 alliances in the city at once, makes fights pretty much endless, for hours and hours. It's a different type of fighting, for sure, and we'll always dip out when we feel like some vanilla siege and keep battles, but a constant access to endless violence is really big for a lot of us. I'm totes fine myself with having some campaigns be gated and others not (would be fun to try those now and again, too), but I'm all about this "access for all".

Draehl

Everyone will flock to the campaigns with no lockout- Including myself and I want it to be gated. Players will take the path of least resistance to remain competitive. It must be systemic across the whole game OR gated campaigns have to offer some type of significantly elevated drops then there will be no point and the zone will lose that special element.

Instant ****ing gratification is ruining all modern MMOs. And I say that working 9 hours a day and spending 3 hours commuting. What's the point, regardless of the amount of playtime you have when everything is so simple and cheap? Go watch a movie if you want something so shallow.

redspecter23

Draehl wrote: »

Everyone will flock to the campaigns with no lockout- Including myself and I want it to be gated. Players will take the path of least resistance to remain competitive. It must be systemic across the whole game OR gated campaigns have to offer some type of significantly elevated drops then there will be no point and the zone will lose that special element.

Instant ****ing gratification is ruining all modern MMOs. And I say that working 9 hours a day and spending 3 hours commuting. What's the point, regardless of the amount of playtime you have when everything is so simple and cheap? Go watch a movie if you want something so shallow.

and when you log on every night to find that the 2 hours you have to spend will be spent reclaiming keeps to gain access?

ColoursYouHave

I'm worried more than anything that this will be the final nail in the coffin for Cyrodiil AVA. While I think having all 6 home keeps may have been a little much, I still think there should be some keep requirement to enter IC, even if it is just something like any 4 keeps, or all your scroll keeps. Would've been nice to actually test this out on PTS like originally intended, but between things like taking too long for the next patch, not allowing enough PTS time before release, and one faction being practically unplayable due to not having any morphs on the template (nor a hotfix to address the issue), we will have to just deal with ZoS settling on the easiest option rather than testing which would work the best.

And because some people seem to think the only people who want access gates are people who play 8-12 hours per day, I want to also clarify that I am a very casual player anymore, playing no more than 10 or so hours per week. While it would be nice to be able to jump into IC at any given moment, I think having some form of keep requirement would ultimately be better for the game.

Hiero_Glyph

redspecter23 wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Everyone will flock to the campaigns with no lockout- Including myself and I want it to be gated. Players will take the path of least resistance to remain competitive. It must be systemic across the whole game OR gated campaigns have to offer some type of significantly elevated drops then there will be no point and the zone will lose that special element.

Instant ****ing gratification is ruining all modern MMOs. And I say that working 9 hours a day and spending 3 hours commuting. What's the point, regardless of the amount of playtime you have when everything is so simple and cheap? Go watch a movie if you want something so shallow.

and when you log on every night to find that the 2 hours you have to spend will be spent reclaiming keeps to gain access?

They'll try and justify spending 2,500 crowns while they're stuck doing the exact same content since release. Honestly, I don't think anyone is against fair competition in Cyrodiil, it's just not fair until ZoS fixes the population imbalances. Having to spend 2,500 crowns for an unfair experience just doesn't sound like fun to me, unless you happen to be on the winning side with unrestricted access.