Why haven't they nerfed NBs yet?

Bfish22090

Best pve dps and unkillable on the pts with the cloak fixes atm

coolermh

Detect pot...Cloak does nothing....

Teargrants

Forum Blades OP, devs are unable to hit them w/ nerfs through their force miss.

hellkrasher

coolermh wrote: »

Detect pot...Cloak does nothing....

Detect pot just got ultra nerfed, excuses now are?

DDuke

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Best pve dps

Nope.

Bfish22090 wrote: »

and unkillable on the pts with the cloak fixes atm

Nope.

Try slotting AoE and/or using detection potions at the right time...

Dracane

coolermh wrote: »

Detect pot...Cloak does nothing....

Detect potions got nerfed pretty pretty hard. Considering you get nothing out of this potion besides this short detection ^^ no we better hope, cloak does not make immune against single target anymore and Nightblades aren't too tanky thanks to the pvp debuff.

Because if the detection runs out and they can vanish into the shadows and attack however they please, without you being able to see, predict or expect them.... uhhhh, 100% death sign.

Docmandu

The solution is to roll one yourself, basically what 90% of the population is doing

Having detect pots work for 40+ seconds wasn't right, but I also see the issue that 12.5 seconds isn't enough to kill an NB with the current damage reduction, so you pop a potion, spend some time getting to your target, by the time you hit him good for a few times, he just vanishes again, heals up and comes back with a vengeance.. before you can pop another potion.

OGLezard

Docmandu wrote: »

The solution is to roll one yourself, basically what 90% of the population is doing

Having detect pots work for 40+ seconds wasn't right, but I also see the issue that 12.5 seconds isn't enough to kill an NB with the current damage reduction, so you pop a potion, spend some time getting to your target, by the time you hit him good for a few times, he just vanishes again, heals up and comes back with a vengeance.. before you can pop another potion.

and their response to that will be "put potion cooldown glyphs on your rings and necklaces"

Master_Kas

Teargrants wrote: »

Forum Blades OP, devs are unable to hit them w/ nerfs through their force miss.

Sounds very similar to Forum sorcs

olsborg

the only thing that can hunt down a defencivemode nb now is another nb, with mark target, 12.5 seconds might have been enough to kill them on live, but it wont be on current dmg on pts.

DDuke

Really... sorcs are the last class that should complain about NBs.

You have a skill called Streak and another called Lightning Form, which you can use to roll over any NB trying to cloak near you.


Keep in mind that cloak does not heal you and it does not shield you either.

I wonder if anyone has even tried using the Flare skill yet... or any other type of AoE.

It's always easier to call for nerfs isn't it?

Dracane

DDuke wrote: »

Really... sorcs are the last class that should complain about NBs.

You have a skill called Streak and another called Lightning Form, which you can use to roll over any NB trying to cloak near you.


Keep in mind that cloak does not heal you and it does not shield you either.

I wonder if anyone has even tried using the Flare skill yet... or any other type of AoE.

It's always easier to call for nerfs isn't it?

Nah. In the time between using the spell and the projectile arriving, the Nightblade has already traveled 20 meters and already prepares for his bomb attack.

They are too fast. As soon as they cloak, they are gone without any chance to predict their way. You can only guess and will fire the projectile into nowhere. It's pointless in my opinion.
I'm sure you can catch some very very nooby Nightblade with that, but not average Nightblade and especially no good Nightblades.

@ZoS Please give some kind of Aura effect while Flare is equipped. Some barely noticeable shining around stealthed targets, almost not noticeable. So that there is a chance to arm with this thing.
EDIT: No, not while it is equipped. Only when you click the skill and the Aim-Modus appears, to avoid abuse.

Derra

I will just wait 1 live patch cycle. Cloak will get the Bolt escape treatment :-D

Rinmaethodain

Welcome in Elder NB Online

Everything that is not NB is getting nerfed

Anything that benefits NB will stay in game

Anyone who opposes NB will be subject to nerf

"its for the good of long term health of game"

Anything other than NB getting nerfed? -> L2P, Adapt, All fine
Someone hits for a NB nerf and them being OP? -> humble NBs gank on them on forums, such poor nbs 25k DPS single target

SRIBES

King richard was telling me he wants cloak to stop magicka regen while in cloak. I think that is an excellent idea, because cloak would still be great but it would prevent perma cloakers who base their entire play style off of that one skill. Streak, block, dodge all got the nerf bat, cloak is next on this list I hope.

Rinmaethodain

ChannelTribes wrote: »

King richard was telling me he wants cloak to stop magicka regen while in cloak. I think that is an excellent idea, because cloak would still be great but it would prevent perma cloakers who base their entire play style off of that one skill. Streak, block, dodge all got the nerf bat, cloak is next on this list I hope.

Permacloackers, sounds boring and really unattractive.

Im sure if ZOS would remove all resource regeneration while cloacked it would bring more fun and interactivity to people playing with NBs.

Zos should really do it, of course people will have adapt but im sure it would be good for long term health of game.

Isbilen

Master_Kas wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Forum Blades OP, devs are unable to hit them w/ nerfs through their force miss.

Sounds very similar to Forum sorcs

The difference is though, that Nightblades are leaps ahead of Sorcerers

Derra

ChannelTribes wrote: »

King richard was telling me he wants cloak to stop magicka regen while in cloak. I think that is an excellent idea, because cloak would still be great but it would prevent perma cloakers who base their entire play style off of that one skill. Streak, block, dodge all got the nerf bat, cloak is next on this list I hope.

Love the idea when they link it to the revealed status :-)

Dracane

ChannelTribes wrote: »

King richard was telling me he wants cloak to stop magicka regen while in cloak. I think that is an excellent idea, because cloak would still be great but it would prevent perma cloakers who base their entire play style off of that one skill. Streak, block, dodge all got the nerf bat, cloak is next on this list I hope.

Indeed and now with this heavy detect potion nerf, I think it's about time and justified to do this.
Cloak can be compared to Mist form, only that your target can't even see you.

I just checked, 13 seconds duration for detection potions. This nerf was way too heavy. Nerfing it to 25 seconds or so would have been more reasonable. So I drink a potion, that doesn't give me any real benefits besides 13 seconds detection. Nightblades will just run a round abit and then they have fun with me for like 30 seconds, where I can't restore any ressources.

DDuke

Dracane wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Really... sorcs are the last class that should complain about NBs.

You have a skill called Streak and another called Lightning Form, which you can use to roll over any NB trying to cloak near you.


Keep in mind that cloak does not heal you and it does not shield you either.

I wonder if anyone has even tried using the Flare skill yet... or any other type of AoE.

It's always easier to call for nerfs isn't it?

Nah. In the time between using the spell and the projectile arriving, the Nightblade has already traveled 20 meters and already prepares for his bomb attack.

They are too fast. As soon as they cloak, they are gone without any chance to predict their way. You can only guess and will fire the projectile into nowhere. It's pointless in my opinion.
I'm sure you can catch some very very nooby Nightblade with that, but not average Nightblade and especially no good Nightblades.

@ZoS Please give some kind of Aura effect while Flare is equipped. Some barely noticeable shining around stealthed targets, almost not noticeable. So that there is a chance to arm with this thing.
EDIT: No, not while it is equipped. Only when you click the skill and the Aim-Modus appears, to avoid abuse.

So you are talking about some ranged magicka NB build specifically? You know... the kind that hits like a wet noodle?

Not a big problem if those are more evasive imo, but popping a melee NB (magicka or stamina) out of cloak is absolutely no problem for any competent sorc (or other class).

I've been caught several times in Imperial City by sorcerers teleporting after me (or over me) while I'm trying to escape (even when moving past mob packs).

The fact that you've often got walls on either side of your character in IC (meaning you have a fairly linear & limited escape route) and stealth detecting/breaking boss monster wandering around doesn't make it any easier for NBs (I love it though).


That said, I do like your suggestion for Flare, as long as that effect isn't too obvious (and it should never make the NB targetable). In fact, I made a similar suggestion a while ago.

ChannelTribes wrote: »

King richard was telling me he wants cloak to stop magicka regen while in cloak. I think that is an excellent idea, because cloak would still be great but it would prevent perma cloakers who base their entire play style off of that one skill. Streak, block, dodge all got the nerf bat, cloak is next on this list I hope.

You know what, I'd actually be fine with that as well since it wouldn't make stamina NB unplayable.

The amount of "extra cost" would be around 1k magicka per cloak for stamina NBs, but a lot more for magicka ones.

That said, I'm not sure how much magicka NBs would like that idea.

Xeniph

Dracane wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Really... sorcs are the last class that should complain about NBs.

You have a skill called Streak and another called Lightning Form, which you can use to roll over any NB trying to cloak near you.


Keep in mind that cloak does not heal you and it does not shield you either.

I wonder if anyone has even tried using the Flare skill yet... or any other type of AoE.

It's always easier to call for nerfs isn't it?

Nah. In the time between using the spell and the projectile arriving, the Nightblade has already traveled 20 meters and already prepares for his bomb attack.

They are too fast. As soon as they cloak, they are gone without any chance to predict their way. You can only guess and will fire the projectile into nowhere. It's pointless in my opinion.
I'm sure you can catch some very very nooby Nightblade with that, but not average Nightblade and especially no good Nightblades.

@ZoS Please give some kind of Aura effect while Flare is equipped. Some barely noticeable shining around stealthed targets, almost not noticeable. So that there is a chance to arm with this thing.
EDIT: No, not while it is equipped. Only when you click the skill and the Aim-Modus appears, to avoid abuse.

Now this just proves you have not tested it on the pts. Because it's quite effective. I watched a Sorc from EU own magicka NB's for about an hour using it. Funny as hell.

Edit- And your remark about Proxy debt is outdated aswell. It's utter crap in single target combat in this update. And this opinion is from using it on my magicka nb and having it used against me on all my other classes/specs. Between the 8 second delay and the pitiful damage, I won't be using it outside of a group vs group situation.

Master_Kas

ChannelTribes wrote: »

King richard was telling me he wants cloak to stop magicka regen while in cloak. I think that is an excellent idea, because cloak would still be great but it would prevent perma cloakers who base their entire play style off of that one skill. Streak, block, dodge all got the nerf bat, cloak is next on this list I hope.

Yeah really great specially for stamblades who aren't able to permacloak . Great fix

I didn't support the bolt escape nerf before you mention that. I wanted a penalty on shieldspamming, not bolting since it already had a decent penalty.

briandivisionb16_ESO

Laggus wrote: »

All thats needed is for everyone to slot Flare, AoE's, Detect Pots, Marked Target (basically be another NB) and thats just to detect the invisible lil critters. Then kill them before they cloak again.

Ironic thing is there may be so many NBs from all alliances, all invisible, thinking the game died because they can't find someone else invisible to kill. Finally getting Sorcs somewhat less OP so theres hope ZoS will be looking very hard at NBs over the next couple of weeks on PTS. Like the Sorc changes though lets see what happens.

Needs ZoS to listen to good non biased advice from PTS testers that main NBs (like Sorcs some do exist!!).

Not all these are exactly true. Nightblades can purge and be really quick at avoiding AoE. And detect potions are limited to 12 second duration now.

Having said that I feel there is a very decent balance on the PTS right now! It is amazing.
DKs: Insane survivability and damage reduction.
Sorcs: Best DPS. Some maneuverability.
Templars: A mixture of DPS and survive.
Nightblades: Maneuverability.

IMO Nightblades are balanced PURELY because of cloak. They can build two ways now: to kill squishy or to kill sustain. And they cannot beat either of the other classes in what I have listed above.

I think Richard's idea of stopping mag regen in cloak would be interesting but an extremely excessive and heavy handed nerf!

Master_Kas

Isbilen wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Forum Blades OP, devs are unable to hit them w/ nerfs through their force miss.

Sounds very similar to Forum sorcs

The difference is though, that Nightblades are leaps ahead of Sorcerers

Not really, see all sorcs who appeared on this thread about NB's?

They want nerf cloak which is so easy to counter. Which doesn't even work all the time.

Master_Kas

Xeniph wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Really... sorcs are the last class that should complain about NBs.

You have a skill called Streak and another called Lightning Form, which you can use to roll over any NB trying to cloak near you.


Keep in mind that cloak does not heal you and it does not shield you either.

I wonder if anyone has even tried using the Flare skill yet... or any other type of AoE.

It's always easier to call for nerfs isn't it?

Nah. In the time between using the spell and the projectile arriving, the Nightblade has already traveled 20 meters and already prepares for his bomb attack.

They are too fast. As soon as they cloak, they are gone without any chance to predict their way. You can only guess and will fire the projectile into nowhere. It's pointless in my opinion.
I'm sure you can catch some very very nooby Nightblade with that, but not average Nightblade and especially no good Nightblades.

@ZoS Please give some kind of Aura effect while Flare is equipped. Some barely noticeable shining around stealthed targets, almost not noticeable. So that there is a chance to arm with this thing.
EDIT: No, not while it is equipped. Only when you click the skill and the Aim-Modus appears, to avoid abuse.

Now this just proves you have not tested it on the pts. Because it's quite effective. I watched a Sorc from EU own magicka NB's for about an hour using it. Funny as hell.

Edit- And your remark about Proxy debt is outdated aswell. It's utter crap in single target combat in this update. And this opinion is from using it on my magicka nb and having it used against me on all my other classes/specs. Between the 8 second delay and the pitiful damage, I won't be using it outside of a group vs group situation.

Don't even try with Dracane. She plays only sorcerer never once played nightblade on live. So biased and ignorant no point arguing. :P

Yes dracane I play my sorc most of my chars after my Nightblade. You cannot say the same tough

dday3six

So the direct loss of 15% Stamina Regen, the indirect loss of another 15% from Werewolf, the increased time to kill, the dodge roll nerf weren't enough for you?

Laggus

All thats needed is for everyone to slot Flare, AoE's, Detect Pots, Marked Target (basically be another NB) and thats just to detect the invisible lil critters. Then kill them before they cloak again.

Ironic thing is there may be so many NBs from all alliances, all invisible, thinking the game died because they can't find someone else invisible to kill. Finally getting Sorcs somewhat less OP so theres hope ZoS will be looking very hard at NBs over the next couple of weeks on PTS. Like the Sorc changes though lets see what happens.

Needs ZoS to listen to good non biased advice from PTS testers that main NBs (like Sorcs some do exist!!).

MrGrimey

Nughtblades are the only class that has a direct counter through the use of potions

Armitas

What is the established optimal single target DPS of a nightblade in PvE and what boss is being used as reference.

Laggus

dday3six wrote: »

So the direct loss of 15% Stamina Regen, the indirect loss of another 15% from Werewolf, the increased time to kill, the dodge roll nerf weren't enough for you?

Oh you mean the same things that all classes were effected by.

timidobserver

Nbs are underpowered. The proof is in the patch notes from today where you will find NB buffs.