Orc Passives

Duukar

If you pair Swift Warrior with the shield breaker gear set it creates some very strong results vs those who use dmg shields. I will get this set ASAP.

PhatGrimReaper

I think it should be a straight buff to all melee ranged abilities.... whether they be class or weapon.

I want my 4% damage buffed Whip!!!

agabahmeatshieldb14_ESO

Did a little testing with Swift Warrior, and wanted to add what I found out.

The 4% damage bonus does apply to Cleave and its morphs, but only to the direct damage component and not to the damage over time. It also applies to the damage component of Critical Charge and its morphs.

When it comes to Whirlwind, the 4% damage bonus applies to Whirlwind and to the Whirling Blades morph, but NOT to Steel Tornado. Since Whirlwind and Whirling Blades have a 5 meter radius, they are counted as melee for the purposes of this skill. Steel Tornado, with its 11 meter radius, does not fall under this skill, just like Flying Blade and its morphs.

Blade Cloak and its morphs benefit from the 4% increase due to there being no range on the skill. The damage component is in melee range, and gets the Swift Warrior benefit.


As far as my personal opinion goes: the point of changing Swift to Swift Warrior was to make it less situational. Swift only increased charge skills, a very small subset, making it useful in only some rare cases. Swift Warrior is definitely less situational, as it appears to apply to about 14 or 15 skills (not counting morphs), but still doesn't give a bonus for every build.

As people in the thread have already requested, it would be really nice to see Swift Warrior's damage bonus also apply to melee range class skills, like the Dragonknight's Lava Whip, the Nightblade's Veiled Strike, and the Templar's Puncturing Strikes (sorry Sorcerers, you're still left out in the cold on this one).

If that change isn't acceptable, it would be nice to see it apply to all skills in the Two-handed and Dual Wield line, even the ones with ranged or damage-over-time components like Steel Tornado and Flurry.

I guess it would also be a good question to ask @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom "Is it intended or a bug that the damage bonus from Orc's Swift Warrior does not apply to Dual Wield's Flurry or the damage-over-time component of Two-handed's Cleave?"

Personofsecrets

agabahmeatshieldb14_ESO wrote: »

Did a little testing with Swift Warrior, and wanted to add what I found out.

The 4% damage bonus does apply to Cleave and its morphs, but only to the direct damage component and not to the damage over time. It also applies to the damage component of Critical Charge and its morphs.

When it comes to Whirlwind, the 4% damage bonus applies to Whirlwind and to the Whirling Blades morph, but NOT to Steel Tornado. Since Whirlwind and Whirling Blades have a 5 meter radius, they are counted as melee for the purposes of this skill. Steel Tornado, with its 11 meter radius, does not fall under this skill, just like Flying Blade and its morphs.

Blade Cloak and its morphs benefit from the 4% increase due to there being no range on the skill. The damage component is in melee range, and gets the Swift Warrior benefit.


As far as my personal opinion goes: the point of changing Swift to Swift Warrior was to make it less situational. Swift only increased charge skills, a very small subset, making it useful in only some rare cases. Swift Warrior is definitely less situational, as it appears to apply to about 14 or 15 skills (not counting morphs), but still doesn't give a bonus for every build.

As people in the thread have already requested, it would be really nice to see Swift Warrior's damage bonus also apply to melee range class skills, like the Dragonknight's Lava Whip, the Nightblade's Veiled Strike, and the Templar's Puncturing Strikes (sorry Sorcerers, you're still left out in the cold on this one).

If that change isn't acceptable, it would be nice to see it apply to all skills in the Two-handed and Dual Wield line, even the ones with ranged or damage-over-time components like Steel Tornado and Flurry.

I guess it would also be a good question to ask @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom "Is it intended or a bug that the damage bonus from Orc's Swift Warrior does not apply to Dual Wield's Flurry or the damage-over-time component of Two-handed's Cleave?"

Thank you for discussing this.

Kronuxx

agabahmeatshieldb14_ESO wrote: »

Did a little testing with Swift Warrior, and wanted to add what I found out.

The 4% damage bonus does apply to Cleave and its morphs, but only to the direct damage component and not to the damage over time. It also applies to the damage component of Critical Charge and its morphs.

When it comes to Whirlwind, the 4% damage bonus applies to Whirlwind and to the Whirling Blades morph, but NOT to Steel Tornado. Since Whirlwind and Whirling Blades have a 5 meter radius, they are counted as melee for the purposes of this skill. Steel Tornado, with its 11 meter radius, does not fall under this skill, just like Flying Blade and its morphs.

Blade Cloak and its morphs benefit from the 4% increase due to there being no range on the skill. The damage component is in melee range, and gets the Swift Warrior benefit.


As far as my personal opinion goes: the point of changing Swift to Swift Warrior was to make it less situational. Swift only increased charge skills, a very small subset, making it useful in only some rare cases. Swift Warrior is definitely less situational, as it appears to apply to about 14 or 15 skills (not counting morphs), but still doesn't give a bonus for every build.

As people in the thread have already requested, it would be really nice to see Swift Warrior's damage bonus also apply to melee range class skills, like the Dragonknight's Lava Whip, the Nightblade's Veiled Strike, and the Templar's Puncturing Strikes (sorry Sorcerers, you're still left out in the cold on this one).

If that change isn't acceptable, it would be nice to see it apply to all skills in the Two-handed and Dual Wield line, even the ones with ranged or damage-over-time components like Steel Tornado and Flurry.

I guess it would also be a good question to ask @ZOS_GinaBruno and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom "Is it intended or a bug that the damage bonus from Orc's Swift Warrior does not apply to Dual Wield's Flurry or the damage-over-time component of Two-handed's Cleave?"

Let's not forget what I pointed out in my previous testing that it should also apply to the Unstable Flames morph which has a range of 5 meters, is stamina and weapon based. I truly believe that if this passive is to increase damage by "4%" on melee skills, then it should include ALL melee skills that are within melee range, whether they derive from weapon or class skills, as both of the aforementioned are a subset technically of melee (that is if they are within melee range). In addition, as I noted in my testing prior, please don't jip us with the 3.8% damage increase. Make it as stated, make it 4%. Here's hoping that @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom will see this.

OrphanHelgen

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

I've done extensive testing as well using an Orc DK. It pretty much works ONLY on exactly just melee, as in 2 handed and 1 handed, and that's pretty much it. As Duukar noted, DW is spotty and it obviously doesn't work on bow skills and it definitely does not work on class skills that are considered melee, at least as far as DK and NB go. Haven't tried on a Templar yet.

For example testing Unstable flame, as read on the tool tip: http://www.esohead.com/skills/20668-unstable-flame
"New Effect: Ability now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina."
Now keep in mind it's range is 5 meters, while Wrecking Blow's range is 7 meters (For which the passive 4% melee damage bonus does work...well technically it came out to 1.038 and not 1.04).

Testing on level 25 worm cult pyromancer (1) and level 25 skeletal warrior (2) while being a V16 Orc DK.

a) Before placing points into passive Swift Warrior:
1) Wrecking Blow = 4608
2) Wrecking Blow = 4465

b) 1 point in passive leading to a 2% increase in damage:
Again testing Wrecking Blow.
1) Expected damage = 4608 x 1.02 = 4700; Actual damage = 4696
2) Expected damage = 4465 x 1.02 = 4554; Actual damage = 4550

As you can note here for b), the actual damage is 4 less than the expected, ok so no big deal right? Well look what happens when we go to 4%.

c) All 3 points into Swift warrior, 4% damage increase.
1) Expected damage = 4608 x 1.04 = 4792; Actual damage = 4784...I mean yeah, small but now the difference is larger. WTF?
2) Expected damage = 4465 x 1.04 = 4643; Actual damage = 4635...again wtf?

So really 3rd point into swift warrior provides... 4635/4465 = 1.038, also confirmed with 4784/4608 = 1.038.

Now with Unstable Flame there was no difference in damage despite the skill now being based off of weapon damage and stamina, and it's range is less than Wrecking Blow. I mean, I guess it could be considered a spell? But if it was then why the hell make it based off of stamina and weapon damage. Makes no damn sense. If it's not a spell-based skill and not a range-based skill like bows or flying blade (can't be considering other melee skills like 2H, 1H have longer range at times) then what in damn hell is it ZOS? I guess it's just some limbo skill?

Honestly, this swift warrior passive still needs fixing. First of all make it the advertised 4% damage, don't skimp us Orcs out. Make your promise stand as stated in the tooltip. Second of all, make it affect melee based skills other than 2 handed and 1 handed. It just doesn't make sense why it wouldn't affect dual wield or unstable flames. ZOS you guys boggle my mind sometimes.

As a Main DD orc DK with 70+ days played, I am really greatful for these *** you are doing.

Why are -Tests- sencured? Because like **?

AngryNord

Test is a bad word for ZOS - it means actually having to check for erros. Can't have any of that you know.

Duukar

Still no answers on this topic? Sad.

Personofsecrets

Duukar wrote: »

Still no answers on this topic? Sad.

Sorry @Duukar , you have my feels.

Dekkameron

There should be an Orc passive that says "100% sprint speed bonus if wearing an entire set of red painted 'Eavy armour"

(Red wunz go fasta!!!)

WAAAARRRGGGHHH!!

actosh

Where did u guys test it?
Keep in mind that all mobs in eso have their armor increased, some more, some less.

Maybe u should test it against goats or npcs in citys.

If the passive still dont work perfect FIX IT ZOS!

Duukar

I performed my tests on identical mobs. Pre screened for consistent numbers results. There was no flaw in my tests. The numbers are correct.

Duuk

Personofsecrets

I'm still hoping this get's looked at, but I'm not holding my breath. It would be nice if Orcs had a niche in the competitive metagame.

Castle

Duukar wrote: »

Why doesnt it affect rapid strikes or Flying Blade? Or surprise attack or killers blade? Seriously man. The I would be fine with 4% if it worked across the board.

Swift Warrior's damage bonus only affects abilities which check the MELEE defense type. It does not effect ranged abilities, direct damage abilities or Melee Damage Over Time abilities. This means it will effect Surprise Attack, but not Veiled Strike or Concealed Weapon. It will apply to Killer's Blade, but not Assassin's Blade or Impale.

Gilliamtherogue

Castle wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Why doesnt it affect rapid strikes or Flying Blade? Or surprise attack or killers blade? Seriously man. The I would be fine with 4% if it worked across the board.

Swift Warrior's damage bonus only affects abilities which check the MELEE defense type. It does not effect ranged abilities, direct damage abilities or Melee Damage Over Time abilities. This means it will effect Surprise Attack, but not Veiled Strike or Concealed Weapon. It will apply to Killer's Blade, but not Assassin's Blade or Impale.

The main problem with that is that Rapid Strikes is considered a DoT because of the way your game calculates channeled effects. Anything that is channeled in ESO is calculated on your end as a DoT and thus is cut off from this bonus. How do I know this? Things like Radiant Destruction, Soul Assault, and Rapid Strikes all proc Valkyn Skoria's. There are a few other methods that prove they're calculated as DoTs but I'd need to explain that to a dev personally to avoid exploitation of it.

agabahmeatshieldb14_ESO

Castle wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Why doesnt it affect rapid strikes or Flying Blade? Or surprise attack or killers blade? Seriously man. The I would be fine with 4% if it worked across the board.

Swift Warrior's damage bonus only affects abilities which check the MELEE defense type. It does not effect ranged abilities, direct damage abilities or Melee Damage Over Time abilities. This means it will effect Surprise Attack, but not Veiled Strike or Concealed Weapon. It will apply to Killer's Blade, but not Assassin's Blade or Impale.

It's nice to know how the skill is intended to work, thanks for the response.

Unfortunately, that means that this passive really only helps Stamina Nightblades or builds running Wrecking Blow. Like I posted above, the point of the change from Swift to Swift Warrior was to make a passive that was useful in more varied situations. This qualifies, but only barely.

It would be nice to see this apply to all melee (5m) range attacks, across Stamina- and Magicka-based abilities. Then, like @Personofsecrets said, Orcs might be taken seriously in endgame.

Duukar

Castle wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Why doesnt it affect rapid strikes or Flying Blade? Or surprise attack or killers blade? Seriously man. The I would be fine with 4% if it worked across the board.

Swift Warrior's damage bonus only affects abilities which check the MELEE defense type. It does not effect ranged abilities, direct damage abilities or Melee Damage Over Time abilities. This means it will effect Surprise Attack, but not Veiled Strike or Concealed Weapon. It will apply to Killer's Blade, but not Assassin's Blade or Impale.

Thank you so much for your reply.

I note you say it "will affect Surprise Attack" and "will affect Killer's Blade".
Does this mean that, as my testing shows on the current PTS, it is not currently applied to those two abilities?
Does this mean it will be changed to affect those abilities before being released to live?

Duuk

Personofsecrets

Castle wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Why doesnt it affect rapid strikes or Flying Blade? Or surprise attack or killers blade? Seriously man. The I would be fine with 4% if it worked across the board.

Swift Warrior's damage bonus only affects abilities which check the MELEE defense type. It does not effect ranged abilities, direct damage abilities or Melee Damage Over Time abilities. This means it will effect Surprise Attack, but not Veiled Strike or Concealed Weapon. It will apply to Killer's Blade, but not Assassin's Blade or Impale.

Just make it a good passive. If you want diversity and are therefore going to rework a bunch of things to cost stamina and if you want intuitive game play by the total rework of how weapon damage and critical works, then making the Orc passive proc on ALL stamina cost abilities just makes sense.

Cathexis

@Castle bash? Overload heavy attack?

Kronuxx

Castle wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Why doesnt it affect rapid strikes or Flying Blade? Or surprise attack or killers blade? Seriously man. The I would be fine with 4% if it worked across the board.

Swift Warrior's damage bonus only affects abilities which check the MELEE defense type. It does not effect ranged abilities, direct damage abilities or Melee Damage Over Time abilities. This means it will effect Surprise Attack, but not Veiled Strike or Concealed Weapon. It will apply to Killer's Blade, but not Assassin's Blade or Impale.

I'm sorry, but what exactly does direct damage abilities even mean? Isn't wrecking blow, execute, charge which are all on the 2H skill line direct damage abilities? Don't they directly cause damage to the player and yet they are affected by the racial passive (Swift Warrior). Or do you mean direct damage as in "direct where you want your spell target location to be"? If the latter is the case, then can you answer my question for which I did testing on, which is...

1) Although Unstable flame has a DOT, it also applies an initial damage before the DOT. It is based off of weapon damage and stamina, it is not range based, and I'm assuming not direct damage anymore than what a 2H weapon ability is. So with all that in mind, why in the hell is it not affected by the racial passive? Can this be fixed?

Kronuxx

actosh wrote: »

Where did u guys test it?
Keep in mind that all mobs in eso have their armor increased, some more, some less.

Maybe u should test it against goats or npcs in citys.

If the passive still dont work perfect FIX IT ZOS!

Trust me, the tests are legit. It doesn't matter what mob you test it on. As long as only one variable changes, which is the points placed into the passive. Test on same mob type, wear same exact armor (or don't wear anything, doesn't matter since it's based on what the absolute values are), same exact attribute point distribution, same exact skill point distribution, with the only thing changing is the before and after in regards to placing points into swift warrior passive. There is no need to retest.

tinythinker

agabahmeatshieldb14_ESO wrote: »

Castle wrote: »

Duukar wrote: »

Why doesnt it affect rapid strikes or Flying Blade? Or surprise attack or killers blade? Seriously man. The I would be fine with 4% if it worked across the board.

Swift Warrior's damage bonus only affects abilities which check the MELEE defense type. It does not effect ranged abilities, direct damage abilities or Melee Damage Over Time abilities. This means it will effect Surprise Attack, but not Veiled Strike or Concealed Weapon. It will apply to Killer's Blade, but not Assassin's Blade or Impale.

It's nice to know how the skill is intended to work, thanks for the response.

Unfortunately, that means that this passive really only helps Stamina Nightblades or builds running Wrecking Blow. Like I posted above, the point of the change from Swift to Swift Warrior was to make a passive that was useful in more varied situations. This qualifies, but only barely.

It would be nice to see this apply to all melee (5m) range attacks, across Stamina- and Magicka-based abilities. Then, like @Personofsecrets said, Orcs might be taken seriously in endgame.

Heh, isn't this the same predicament as the Redguard passive that gives a little bit of stam back once every three seconds when landing a melee attack? Seems to be a "thing". Need to do more basic weapon attacks with one hand and shield, two handed, and dual wield I guess.

Duukar

Looks like we got a win folks!

Check out the patch notes!

Should affect class stam abilities now across the board. Still no love for rapid strikes but W/E

Duuk

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Duukar wrote: »

Looks like we got a win folks!

Check out the patch notes!

Should affect class stam abilities now across the board. Still no love for rapid strikes but W/E

Duuk

Nice work! Here's the exact quote from the patch notes:

Swift Warrior: Fixed an issue where this passive was not increasing damage for melee-class abilities."

PhatGrimReaper

Does this mean it will effect magicka class abilities with melee range?

Anyone testing this?

RustedValor

Pfft, this passive should just be straigh 4% weapon damage increase or its not worth it.

Kronuxx

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

Does this mean it will effect magicka class abilities with melee range?

Anyone testing this?

No...as it states, only melee skills, which essentially means class skills that stamina based, are in melee range, as in within 5 meters about, and it does not effect the DOT that results from the melee-class ability. Magicka class abilities and Ranged class abilities are not considered melee skills and are not affected by this passive. I also know this through testing.

Domardal

@Castle

So Jabs will not be boosted by the Swift warrior passive cause for some reason they count as a DoT?
Well - thank you then.... -.-

Duukar

Earlier testing showed it works with stam jabs...