ZOS just euthanized werewolves

Strider_Roshin

According to the PTS noteshttp://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/p1

"Removed Stamina Regeneration from Lycanthropy; it now requires Werewolf Transformation to be slotted in your ability bar."

That's right, they officially removed the only reason why people became werewolves in ESO. *slow clap*

FadedJeans

I must admit, I just infected my end game tank for this very reason.

HA!

Well, it's still fun to RAWR! my way through PvE mobs.

Akavir_Sentinel

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

Tholian1

I have been thinking about curing my lycanthropy and becoming a vampire for the achievement and dyes. I also am considering trying out a magicka build with my NB. Guess this is the push I needed.

Whatever, I guess.

Thymos

Well... with the nerf to vampire weakness to 25%, might be worth taking another look at.

CP5

I find it both funny and sad that this is such a common fact. Last the combat team talked about it they said they felt the werewolf was fine. Anyone feel that way?

Athas24

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

I agree with the ww toggle need but Vampries IMO shouldn't have the penalty because their primary *non ultimate ability* sucks. It doesn't work against 50% of the mobs because of the stun. It should Just be a drain for hp or allow the drain to work if the stun gets blocked. Then the ability would be amazing! That said Bat swarm is still a viable skill to slot but not for Both ultimate bars.. .. that's just dumb. The major health debuff they take too...that should be then negated if they aren't able to get the stam/magicka buff. I've been thinking of curing my stupid Khajiit because he turned from Jet Black to White... looks like I'll be doing that now.

Paradox

Going Vampire.

WW was already just a small bonus, now that it's dead... we don't care any more.

Akavir_Sentinel

Athas24 wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

I agree with the ww toggle need but Vampries IMO shouldn't have the penalty because their primary *non ultimate ability* sucks. It doesn't work against 50% of the mobs because of the stun. It should Just be a drain for hp or allow the drain to work if the stun gets blocked. Then the ability would be amazing! That said Bat swarm is still a viable skill to slot but not for Both ultimate bars.. .. that's just dumb. The major health debuff they take too...that should be then negated if they aren't able to get the stam/magicka buff. I've been thinking of curing my stupid Khajiit because he turned from Jet Black to White... looks like I'll be doing that now.

Drain Essence: This ability now restores 10% of your health every second, and stuns your target on activation. It can be used on CC-immune targets, and can be used all the time (it no longer activates the Feed debuff).

So now, apparently, you can drain boss mobs and CC-immune mobs.

Spearshard

Such it up? Sure vamps might always take more fire damage, but that can be mitigated, and you don't have to transform to get your benefits, werewolf is a complete waste of an ultimate and nobody actually becomes a werewolf to transform, the skills are underwhelming and largely a waste compared to actually having an ultimate slotted. The only benefit was the slight buff to stam regen. Congrats zos, for killing the only reason prob (to be fair I'm guessing, but it's a fairly educated guess) 90% of people ever became a werewolf.

UltimaJoe777

Paradox wrote: »

Going Vampire.

WW was already just a small bonus, now that it's dead... we don't care any more.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Not everyone went Werewolf just to never transform and only benefit from Stamina Recovery you know...

Athas24

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

I agree with the ww toggle need but Vampries IMO shouldn't have the penalty because their primary *non ultimate ability* sucks. It doesn't work against 50% of the mobs because of the stun. It should Just be a drain for hp or allow the drain to work if the stun gets blocked. Then the ability would be amazing! That said Bat swarm is still a viable skill to slot but not for Both ultimate bars.. .. that's just dumb. The major health debuff they take too...that should be then negated if they aren't able to get the stam/magicka buff. I've been thinking of curing my stupid Khajiit because he turned from Jet Black to White... looks like I'll be doing that now.

Drain Essence: This ability now restores 10% of your health every second, and stuns your target on activation. It can be used on CC-immune targets, and can be used all the time (it no longer activates the Feed debuff).

So now, apparently, you can drain boss mobs and CC-immune mobs.

AHH YES! Thank you for the info!!

Akavir_Sentinel

Spearshard wrote: »

Such it up? Sure vamps might always take more fire damage, but that can be mitigated, and you don't have to transform to get your benefits, werewolf is a complete waste of an ultimate and nobody actually becomes a werewolf to transform, the skills are underwhelming and largely a waste compared to actually having an ultimate slotted. The only benefit was the slight buff to stam regen. Congrats zos, for killing the only reason prob (to be fair I'm guessing, but it's a fairly educated guess) 90% of people ever became a werewolf.

Vamps now have to keep at least one vamp skill on their bar in order to receive the Undeath passive and benefits. It's the same as WW having to slot their transform in order to receive the stamina regen.

Tholian1

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Spearshard wrote: »

Such it up? Sure vamps might always take more fire damage, but that can be mitigated, and you don't have to transform to get your benefits, werewolf is a complete waste of an ultimate and nobody actually becomes a werewolf to transform, the skills are underwhelming and largely a waste compared to actually having an ultimate slotted. The only benefit was the slight buff to stam regen. Congrats zos, for killing the only reason prob (to be fair I'm guessing, but it's a fairly educated guess) 90% of people ever became a werewolf.

Vamps now have to keep at least one vamp skill on their bar in order to receive the Undeath passive and benefits. It's the same as WW having to slot their transform in order to receive the stamina regen.

Never been a vampire, but I am guessing they have some skills that are useful. So keeping a skill on the bar probably isn't much of a problem.

UrQuan

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

Vampires were actually significantly improved in this update. The fire vulnerability was reduced from 40% to 25%, and Drain Essence went from only being situationally useful (because generally you could only use it against standard mobs) to being useful against all enemies. The only downside is that Supernatural Recovery only works when you have a Vampire ability slotted, but how many Vampires do you know that run around without a Vampire ability slotted? I know that currently the Vampire passives by themselves definitely don't make up for the weaknesses - if you're not going to be using the active abilities it's not worth it to be a Vampire anyway (well, unless you're doing it just because you want to be a Vampire and you don't care about handicapping yourself).

For clarity: I'm not saying "oh it's not fair, Werewolves got the short end of the stick and Vampires got buffed." I've never liked that Werewolves got a buff without any weaknesses as long as they never went into WW form, and I think that the changes made to slightly buff Vampires are actually good. Saying "Vampires took a similar hit on this update" doesn't make sense though.

Akavir_Sentinel

UrQuan wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

Vampires were actually significantly improved in this update. The fire vulnerability was reduced from 40% to 25%, and Drain Essence went from only being situationally useful (because generally you could only use it against standard mobs) to being useful against all enemies. The only downside is that Supernatural Recovery only works when you have a Vampire ability slotted, but how many Vampires do you know that run around without a Vampire ability slotted? I know that currently the Vampire passives by themselves definitely don't make up for the weaknesses - if you're not going to be using the active abilities it's not worth it to be a Vampire anyway (well, unless you're doing it just because you want to be a Vampire and you don't care about handicapping yourself).

For clarity: I'm not saying "oh it's not fair, Werewolves got the short end of the stick and Vampires got buffed." I've never liked that Werewolves got a buff without any weaknesses as long as they never went into WW form, and I think that the changes made to slightly buff Vampires are actually good. Saying "Vampires took a similar hit on this update" doesn't make sense though.

I meant that vampires took a similar hit because they now have to slot a vamp skill on their bar in order to receive the vamp bonus, and now WW has to slot a skill in order to receive their bonus. They both got the same treatment in that regard.

Sithisvoid

I didn't see a hit to vamps I saw them get stronger. I can spam drain essence now? Awesome. I always have an ability slotted so the other thing doesn't bug me. Curing all my wolves though once IC hits

markt84

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

Vampires were actually significantly improved in this update. The fire vulnerability was reduced from 40% to 25%, and Drain Essence went from only being situationally useful (because generally you could only use it against standard mobs) to being useful against all enemies. The only downside is that Supernatural Recovery only works when you have a Vampire ability slotted, but how many Vampires do you know that run around without a Vampire ability slotted? I know that currently the Vampire passives by themselves definitely don't make up for the weaknesses - if you're not going to be using the active abilities it's not worth it to be a Vampire anyway (well, unless you're doing it just because you want to be a Vampire and you don't care about handicapping yourself).

For clarity: I'm not saying "oh it's not fair, Werewolves got the short end of the stick and Vampires got buffed." I've never liked that Werewolves got a buff without any weaknesses as long as they never went into WW form, and I think that the changes made to slightly buff Vampires are actually good. Saying "Vampires took a similar hit on this update" doesn't make sense though.

I meant that vampires took a similar hit because they now have to slot a vamp skill on their bar in order to receive the vamp bonus, and now WW has to slot a skill in order to receive their bonus. They both got the same treatment in that regard.

A skill and a ultimate are not equal. They should of added some useful skill for werewolves when not in form to negate the negative effect of this. But again 1 skill does not equal 1 ultimate.
And the reduced fire damage is HUGE for vamps. Now there is no reason to be a wolf and a lot lot lot better to be a vamp. They could of just added the poison damage to wolves while not in form at the same level vamp was reduced. Guess that was too hard to do

UrQuan

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

Vampires were actually significantly improved in this update. The fire vulnerability was reduced from 40% to 25%, and Drain Essence went from only being situationally useful (because generally you could only use it against standard mobs) to being useful against all enemies. The only downside is that Supernatural Recovery only works when you have a Vampire ability slotted, but how many Vampires do you know that run around without a Vampire ability slotted? I know that currently the Vampire passives by themselves definitely don't make up for the weaknesses - if you're not going to be using the active abilities it's not worth it to be a Vampire anyway (well, unless you're doing it just because you want to be a Vampire and you don't care about handicapping yourself).

For clarity: I'm not saying "oh it's not fair, Werewolves got the short end of the stick and Vampires got buffed." I've never liked that Werewolves got a buff without any weaknesses as long as they never went into WW form, and I think that the changes made to slightly buff Vampires are actually good. Saying "Vampires took a similar hit on this update" doesn't make sense though.

I meant that vampires took a similar hit because they now have to slot a vamp skill on their bar in order to receive the vamp bonus, and now WW has to slot a skill in order to receive their bonus. They both got the same treatment in that regard.

Yes, but it's really only "taking a hit" for the werewolves, while for vampires it's essentially meaningless, because why were you a Vampire if you weren't slotting at least one Vampire skill anyway? Again, though, I'm not saying that I disagree with the changes themselves. It never made sense to me that WWs got an always-on buff without an always-on penalty to balance it out.

Akavir_Sentinel

markt84 wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

Vampires were actually significantly improved in this update. The fire vulnerability was reduced from 40% to 25%, and Drain Essence went from only being situationally useful (because generally you could only use it against standard mobs) to being useful against all enemies. The only downside is that Supernatural Recovery only works when you have a Vampire ability slotted, but how many Vampires do you know that run around without a Vampire ability slotted? I know that currently the Vampire passives by themselves definitely don't make up for the weaknesses - if you're not going to be using the active abilities it's not worth it to be a Vampire anyway (well, unless you're doing it just because you want to be a Vampire and you don't care about handicapping yourself).

For clarity: I'm not saying "oh it's not fair, Werewolves got the short end of the stick and Vampires got buffed." I've never liked that Werewolves got a buff without any weaknesses as long as they never went into WW form, and I think that the changes made to slightly buff Vampires are actually good. Saying "Vampires took a similar hit on this update" doesn't make sense though.

I meant that vampires took a similar hit because they now have to slot a vamp skill on their bar in order to receive the vamp bonus, and now WW has to slot a skill in order to receive their bonus. They both got the same treatment in that regard.

A skill and a ultimate are not equal. They should of added some useful skill for werewolves when not in form to negate the negative effect of this. But again 1 skill does not equal 1 ultimate.
And the reduced fire damage is HUGE for vamps. Now there is no reason to be a wolf and a lot lot lot better to be a vamp. They could of just added the poison damage to wolves while not in form at the same level vamp was reduced. Guess that was too hard to do

Poison damage while in human form? That would be hilarious. I can see the WW's dropping like flies all over Cyrodiil from Lethal Arrow and the many, many other forms of poison attacks.

Sithisvoid

They did mention fixing damage reduction Gliphs as well. So WW could actually use the posion resist and have it work finally. Might be viable to actually run around in ww form.

markt84

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

markt84 wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

Vampires were actually significantly improved in this update. The fire vulnerability was reduced from 40% to 25%, and Drain Essence went from only being situationally useful (because generally you could only use it against standard mobs) to being useful against all enemies. The only downside is that Supernatural Recovery only works when you have a Vampire ability slotted, but how many Vampires do you know that run around without a Vampire ability slotted? I know that currently the Vampire passives by themselves definitely don't make up for the weaknesses - if you're not going to be using the active abilities it's not worth it to be a Vampire anyway (well, unless you're doing it just because you want to be a Vampire and you don't care about handicapping yourself).

For clarity: I'm not saying "oh it's not fair, Werewolves got the short end of the stick and Vampires got buffed." I've never liked that Werewolves got a buff without any weaknesses as long as they never went into WW form, and I think that the changes made to slightly buff Vampires are actually good. Saying "Vampires took a similar hit on this update" doesn't make sense though.

I meant that vampires took a similar hit because they now have to slot a vamp skill on their bar in order to receive the vamp bonus, and now WW has to slot a skill in order to receive their bonus. They both got the same treatment in that regard.

A skill and a ultimate are not equal. They should of added some useful skill for werewolves when not in form to negate the negative effect of this. But again 1 skill does not equal 1 ultimate.
And the reduced fire damage is HUGE for vamps. Now there is no reason to be a wolf and a lot lot lot better to be a vamp. They could of just added the poison damage to wolves while not in form at the same level vamp was reduced. Guess that was too hard to do

Poison damage while in human form? That would be hilarious. I can see the WW's dropping like flies all over Cyrodiil from Lethal Arrow and the many, many other forms of poison attacks.

Everyone is dropping like flies right now from camo hunter

CP5

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

markt84 wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So, let me get this straight. You became a werewolf, just to never turn into a werewolf?

Suck it up, buttercup. Vamps took a similar hit on this update too, and we are in vamp form 24/7.

Vampires were actually significantly improved in this update. The fire vulnerability was reduced from 40% to 25%, and Drain Essence went from only being situationally useful (because generally you could only use it against standard mobs) to being useful against all enemies. The only downside is that Supernatural Recovery only works when you have a Vampire ability slotted, but how many Vampires do you know that run around without a Vampire ability slotted? I know that currently the Vampire passives by themselves definitely don't make up for the weaknesses - if you're not going to be using the active abilities it's not worth it to be a Vampire anyway (well, unless you're doing it just because you want to be a Vampire and you don't care about handicapping yourself).

For clarity: I'm not saying "oh it's not fair, Werewolves got the short end of the stick and Vampires got buffed." I've never liked that Werewolves got a buff without any weaknesses as long as they never went into WW form, and I think that the changes made to slightly buff Vampires are actually good. Saying "Vampires took a similar hit on this update" doesn't make sense though.

I meant that vampires took a similar hit because they now have to slot a vamp skill on their bar in order to receive the vamp bonus, and now WW has to slot a skill in order to receive their bonus. They both got the same treatment in that regard.

A skill and a ultimate are not equal. They should of added some useful skill for werewolves when not in form to negate the negative effect of this. But again 1 skill does not equal 1 ultimate.
And the reduced fire damage is HUGE for vamps. Now there is no reason to be a wolf and a lot lot lot better to be a vamp. They could of just added the poison damage to wolves while not in form at the same level vamp was reduced. Guess that was too hard to do

Poison damage while in human form? That would be hilarious. I can see the WW's dropping like flies all over Cyrodiil from Lethal Arrow and the many, many other forms of poison attacks.

Lethal Arrow + Poison Injection, a very fun combo that really helps build reflexes. And by build reflexes I mean drop ww asap so you don't instantly die.

Spearshard

The difference is that the only thing that made lycanthropy useful was the stam regen, most ppl didn't like the werewolf form BC it was a waste of an ultimate, not that powerful, not that useful, and so short it was even more useless. But, vampires, while they always had the weakness, they were always in human form, could use any ultimate, bat swarm was really good (though it got nerfed I think) and has really good passives, and really useful skills. To say of week vamps still have to have an ability slotted so it's equal is nonsensical compared to a utterly useless ultimate especially when drain essence now applies to everything. I seriously doubt there is a vamp that doesn't have a vamp ability slotted.

LaughingJack

so just slot an ability. thats what i do if i feel i need to buff with the WW thing - it's too easy considering the benefit.

MornaBaine

If they were going to do anything to "balance" this for werewolves they should have just given them their poison weakness all the time instead of only when transformed. That would have been an excellent tradeoff and would have made perfect sense. But apparently ZOS LIKES to do everything backwards.

Phinix1

Both the removal of passive non-transformed WW stamina regen and the requirement for vampires to now have abilities slotted (on both bars) to have access to their passives are both perfect examples of incredibly STUPID, unnecessary, and HATED changes that exist for no reason other than to P*$% the customers off.

I am convinced at this point that developer meetings go something like this:

"Well, the forum whiners are at it again. I just can't take it anymore, Bob. What totally asinine and rage-inducing insanity can we inflict upon the general innocent customer base as passive aggressive retaliation THIS patch?"

"Hey, I know! Let's screw up the "special" classes! That should make those console players that shelled out 20k+ to the griefers we didn't do anything to stop camping mob spawns anymore than we did when PC griefers did it extra happy. Ha!"

At the very least they could have made the requirement "must have WW transform slotted on EITHER bar" and "must have a vampire ability slotted on EITHER bar." That would have been the decent thing, being as how the active-bar-only activation of passives is a rather lazy bit of coding that has been ignored since beta.

Yeah, no. /slowclaps all around once again.

markt84

LaughingJack wrote: »

so just slot an ability. thats what i do if i feel i need to buff with the WW thing - it's too easy considering the benefit.

You must PvE a lot. You don't have room for a worthless ultimate in PvP

CP5

MornaBaine wrote: »

If they were going to do anything to "balance" this for werewolves they should have just given them their poison weakness all the time instead of only when transformed. That would have been an excellent tradeoff and would have made perfect sense. But apparently ZOS LIKES to do everything backwards.

If this were to happen, which I agree that ww's need a weakness in human form as well, then I would want to be able to make use of my 21 skill point investment more than a short lived and very expensive ultimate allows. But Zos wants ww to "feel more like an ultimate" so it can't change a players experience much.

redspecter23

I think the nerf is justified. The fact that WW was only desired for the passive and the actual transformation was never used is the issue. WW itself should be useful enough to actually use. That's the real problem and I don't think anything coming in the next patch is going to solve that.

Here's my short list of issues

Transformation takes too long both going into and coming out of form. Make it instant or it's a huge liability, especially in pvp

It completely wastes an ultimate slot. Once transformed, the WW should have an ultimate in that slot to use.

Choppy animations on WW abilities, especially the cleave. Hard to weave.

Both ultimates do basically the same thing with just a minor variation. How about one version is a very cheap instant transformation for a short non extandable duration and the second one is the long duration transformation. That way you have a nice short quick transformation that is a bit better for pvp or battles where feeding isn't an option.

CidxLucy

FadedJeans wrote: »

I must admit, I just infected my end game tank for this very reason.

HA!

Well, it's still fun to RAWR! my way through PvE mobs.

I don.t know what to do with my tank now lol vap or human