ZOS just euthanized werewolves

ewhite106b16_ESO

Having to slot the WW ultimate to get stam regen bonus is a big nerf, I tested on pts the stam regen buff only works when you are on bar with the ultimate, need ww ultimate on both bars to get consistent regen bonus. Not a big deal for vamps who have mist form on one bar and bat ultimate on the other.

dday3six

My biggest concern is now it feels like there isn't a good Stamina option. The Vampire skills are all Magicka, so they don't always mesh well with a Stam Build, and double Bat Swarm is pretty limiting. I get the issue with Werewolf being free Stamina Regen, but now it's okay if I was a Magicka NB I'd go Vampire, but for Stamina I'd have to double slot an Ult that I'm likely to never use because it doesn't bring enough to the table.

starkerealm

ewhite106b16_ESO wrote: »

Having to slot the WW ultimate to get stam regen bonus is a big nerf, I tested on pts the stam regen buff only works when you are on bar with the ultimate, need ww ultimate on both bars to get consistent regen bonus. Not a big deal for vamps who have mist form on one bar and bat ultimate on the other.

It's a big nerf for players who weren't werewolves but picked up Lycanthropy for the free stat boost. If you're actually playing a nine foot tall snarling deathbeast, then the ultimate is probably on both of your bars.

urkonse

soon(tm) the probably add vampire a 100% weakness to fire.....what is reason to become werewolf or vampire if it makes you weaker instead of stronger >_>

MCMancub

My take on the changes: here

Strider_Roshin

urkonse wrote: »

soon(tm) the probably add vampire a 100% weakness to fire.....what is reason to become werewolf or vampire if it makes you weaker instead of stronger >_>

After this change the only people who'll be werewolves will be PvE-ers, role players, and those who love dying from snipe and poison injection.

Seriously though, you going need guard in order to attract all projectiles, just turn into a werewolf in PvP.

BBSooner

I'm fine with the change. We shouldn't be werewolves just for the sake of never planning on transforming.

That said, I wish transforming didn't make me feel like I was giving up the utility of my class/weapon skills for a side-step in damage.

Bookwyrm

SugaComa wrote: »

I'm guessing I'm the only one who thinks WW should have a third ability bar, one that switches to when in WW form and then and only then do its actives take hold, some passives should work with out being transformed due to the nature of the beast.

I'm a werewolf but only so I can give free bites n annoy the griefers ... I'm the the greifer's greifer

Wait...since when do werewolves not have a third ability bar that it automatically switches to when transformed? I haven't transformed in a while (but really only because I haven't been playing that character, I've been leveling alts), but it always used to have a third ability bar when transformed. What was frustrating about it was that you couldn't/can't change the abilities/move them around unless you are currently transformed--meaning you have to waste a transformation while you twiddle with your skill menu and just hope that you don't run out of time before you're done. And you can only use the actives while transformed.

Or are you just rebutting the idea of being able to use werewolf abilities while human, with which I agree, because that sounds a bit silly. Admittedly, it would be pretty priceless to watch a Bosmer hit the "devour" skill while not transformed. Just sayin'.

I also agree that some passives should affect players while not transformed, because being a werewolf alters an individual's physiology in so many ways. That's not to say that only "buffs" should be active while "human." We should have a negative, too.

I would honestly be fine with this is if I felt that the transformation was a worthwhile ultimate, but it usually just sends me into a fit of anxiety as I try to devour everything in sight in order to maintain form, and the longer it takes me to kill something while a werewolf the greater my anxiety. It may be irrational, but as mentioned werewolf damage is...well...werewolves just need another look-over.

Troneon

Nerf werewolf....then put werewolf cleanse in crown store?

*puts tin foil hat on"

mrskinskull

Gidorick wrote: »

I think that's seems fair. It makes the choice more meaningful, and you'll feel the 'burden' of the wolf.

I have it as my ultimate anyways.

starkerealm

Troneon wrote: »

Nerf werewolf....then put werewolf cleanse in crown store?

*puts tin foil hat on"

*Wanders into The Rift, and sees people asking for the location of the cleric so they can cure themselves for a couple k.* So... that's a fashion statement... or...

Sykis

I use WW in certain areas. I know there are better utl in terms of flexibility but the WW gives me a stm DPS alternative when I run my magicka low. It's situational but with the abilities on the bar when changed it has saved my butt a few times. May not be the best way but it has worked in the past. The reduction in PVP damage and poisen damage would make it more useful in PVP. Not as a solo utility but more of a in your face group surprise attack. Just my thoughts. If I can't make it work with the changes then I will cure it and move on.

Slurg

I suppose my Argonian werewolf will have to stick with crafting for the foreseeable future.

Brasseurfb16_ESO

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

urkonse wrote: »

soon(tm) the probably add vampire a 100% weakness to fire.....what is reason to become werewolf or vampire if it makes you weaker instead of stronger >_>

After this change the only people who'll be werewolves will be PvE-ers, role players, and those who love dying from snipe and poison injection.

Seriously though, you going need guard in order to attract all projectiles, just turn into a werewolf in PvP.

Werewolf isn't bad in PvP, you can pretty much turn the tide of a battle if ennemies are not carefull enough and stay near of you when you are transforming. Because :

1) You are invulnerable when you change so you can soak a ton of damage (even meteors!). A lot of people assume you are vulnerable during that time, which is a total understatement...
2) The fear after cast gives you just enough time to kill the target before it breaks out of CC, if not, the target will most likely start playing defensively which is something you clearly shouldn't do against a beast that hits well over 5K per swings twice a second or which can just break block by howling and deal an instant 18K critical hit with Howl of Agony.

Yes you are vulnerable to poison, but those lethal arrows are easy to dodge and poison injection and acid volley are both dealing pathetic damage anyways, and once you are near the archer you only need to place 1 CC and swing him twice and the target is dead under 2sec.

The only issue I have with Werewolves in PvP is the lack of soft CC like a root or a snare, the 30% movement speed is clearly not enough when people are using soft CC against you. The surviability is quite ok with Hircine's Bounty and Claws of Life, yes it doesn't come close to magicka builds surviability or tanky builds, sure, but compared to most stamina glasscanon builds, I think WWs are doing fine while having incredible burst potency. And with a healer backing you up, I definitly understand why you become a priority target because just how fast you can drop people down if they don't quickly take care of you.

If you play a WW, you just have to accept you are a Diamond Drill made of cardboard.

CP5

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

urkonse wrote: »

soon(tm) the probably add vampire a 100% weakness to fire.....what is reason to become werewolf or vampire if it makes you weaker instead of stronger >_>

After this change the only people who'll be werewolves will be PvE-ers, role players, and those who love dying from snipe and poison injection.

Seriously though, you going need guard in order to attract all projectiles, just turn into a werewolf in PvP.

Werewolf isn't bad in PvP, you can pretty much turn the tide of a battle if ennemies are not carefull enough and stay near of you when you are transforming. Because :

1) You are invulnerable when you change so you can soak a ton of damage (even meteors!). A lot of people assume you are vulnerable during that time, which is a total understatement...
2) The fear after cast gives you just enough time to kill the target before it breaks out of CC, if not, the target will most likely start playing defensively which is something you clearly shouldn't do against a beast that hits well over 5K per swings twice a second or which can just break block by howling and deal an instant 18K critical hit with Howl of Agony.

Yes you are vulnerable to poison, but those lethal arrows are easy to dodge and poison injection and acid volley are both dealing pathetic damage anyways, and once you are near the archer you only need to place 1 CC and swing him twice and the target is dead under 2sec.

The only issue I have with Werewolves in PvP is the lack of soft CC like a root or a snare, the 30% movement speed is clearly not enough when people are using soft CC against you. The surviability is quite ok with Hircine's Bounty and Claws of Life, yes it doesn't come close to magicka builds surviability or tanky builds, sure, but compared to most stamina glasscanon builds, I think WWs are doing fine while having incredible burst potency. And with a healer backing you up, I definitly understand why you become a priority target because just how fast you can drop people down if they don't quickly take care of you.

If you play a WW, you just have to accept you are a Diamond Drill made of cardboard.

Think you're under estimating how powerful poison damage can be, and how easily a purely melee build can reach archers. Most werewolves I see just spam the heal until they are out of magicka then die.

Also @starkerealm, I have a lot of werewolves but I never waste both ultimate slots on the same skill, and a 15% stamina regen passive at the cost of being forced to use one ultimate on both bars isn't worth it to me.

starkerealm

CP5 wrote: »

Also @starkerealm, I have a lot of werewolves but I never waste both ultimate slots on the same skill, and a 15% stamina regen passive at the cost of being forced to use one ultimate on both bars isn't worth it to me.

Sometimes, I think you forget we're both in Methodical Madness.

dabulls7491

I just became one for this reason

bertenburnyb16_ESO

Ty for screwing us again zos
This didnt need to be changed or "fixed"

AuldWolf

I'm okay with this. I don't like the kind of min-maxing where you get something like that just for being something. I think you should go all in. That's what I've done with being a werewolf, my build is actually designed around it and it's always on at least one of my bars. I think that this is just a boon for people who actually want to be werewolves, it's a good thing.

It takes away from min-maxing, and it means that the level 50 players paying for bites to get free stamina regeneration will dry up. It means that there'll be less profit for bite sellers. And it means that people who want to become werewolves will have an easier time getting their bite.

This is actually a really intelligent move on their part. I'm tired of min-maxing ruining everything, honestly. It's an objective truth that nothing will screw a game up more than theorycrafters, because it means that the developers in question are always in a race to fight them to maintain a level of balance. Except in that race, the people who aren't min-maxing get hurt. I'd love to see less of that.

RavenSkylord

CP5 wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

urkonse wrote: »

soon(tm) the probably add vampire a 100% weakness to fire.....what is reason to become werewolf or vampire if it makes you weaker instead of stronger >_>

After this change the only people who'll be werewolves will be PvE-ers, role players, and those who love dying from snipe and poison injection.

Seriously though, you going need guard in order to attract all projectiles, just turn into a werewolf in PvP.

Werewolf isn't bad in PvP, you can pretty much turn the tide of a battle if ennemies are not carefull enough and stay near of you when you are transforming. Because :

1) You are invulnerable when you change so you can soak a ton of damage (even meteors!). A lot of people assume you are vulnerable during that time, which is a total understatement...
2) The fear after cast gives you just enough time to kill the target before it breaks out of CC, if not, the target will most likely start playing defensively which is something you clearly shouldn't do against a beast that hits well over 5K per swings twice a second or which can just break block by howling and deal an instant 18K critical hit with Howl of Agony.

Yes you are vulnerable to poison, but those lethal arrows are easy to dodge and poison injection and acid volley are both dealing pathetic damage anyways, and once you are near the archer you only need to place 1 CC and swing him twice and the target is dead under 2sec.

The only issue I have with Werewolves in PvP is the lack of soft CC like a root or a snare, the 30% movement speed is clearly not enough when people are using soft CC against you. The surviability is quite ok with Hircine's Bounty and Claws of Life, yes it doesn't come close to magicka builds surviability or tanky builds, sure, but compared to most stamina glasscanon builds, I think WWs are doing fine while having incredible burst potency. And with a healer backing you up, I definitly understand why you become a priority target because just how fast you can drop people down if they don't quickly take care of you.

If you play a WW, you just have to accept you are a Diamond Drill made of cardboard.

Think you're under estimating how powerful poison damage can be, and how easily a purely melee build can reach archers. Most werewolves I see just spam the heal until they are out of magicka then die.

Also @starkerealm, I have a lot of werewolves but I never waste both ultimate slots on the same skill, and a 15% stamina regen passive at the cost of being forced to use one ultimate on both bars isn't worth it to me.

Doesn't seem quite fair that vamps only require an ability slot while werewolves require an ultimate and get less buff for it. Please make transformation an ability instead of an ultimate

Celas_Dranacea

Ok guys today I spent awhile first finishing morphing all my ww abilities and then really focusing on applying all my skill as a pvper to fighting smart in a group as werewolf in back and forth skirmishes for a couple hours. I gotta say, with some backup I was totally wrecking people as a werewolf. The times I died was when I over extended, which is the same out of form.

I think ww is still somewhat a glass cannon (at least full medium armor/stam like I am). Maybe the changes will effect us for the worse, and zos can continue to think about improving ww. but after further consideration and serious testing I gotta be honest and say werewolf is totally playable and good in pvp right now, and I don't think that will change.

I'm totally fine with the need to constant stam regen as it will weed out the posers from the true werewolves. It's a nerf to me, but I'll take it like a man (who turns into a werewolf).

To those of you who think all werewolves do is spam hircines bounty and run away, I look forward to meeting you in the field.

markt84

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Ok guys today I spent awhile first finishing morphing all my ww abilities and then really focusing on applying all my skill as a pvper to fighting smart in a group as werewolf in back and forth skirmishes for a couple hours. I gotta say, with some backup I was totally wrecking people as a werewolf. The times I died was when I over extended, which is the same out of form.

I think ww is still somewhat a glass cannon (at least full medium armor/stam like I am). Maybe the changes will effect us for the worse, and zos can continue to think about improving ww. but after further consideration and serious testing I gotta be honest and say werewolf is totally playable and good in pvp right now, and I don't think that will change.

I'm totally fine with the need to constant stam regen as it will weed out the posers from the true werewolves. It's a nerf to me, but I'll take it like a man (who turns into a werewolf).

To those of you who think all werewolves do is spam hircines bounty and run away, I look forward to meeting you in the field.

Just don't be alone

reften

werewolf is pointless, was just a silly 15% buff. Back to vamp I go.

Dekkameron

Even though everyone one of my chars is a WW (why not eh?) I did see a nerf coming as it made no sense NOT to be a WW as it is.

Aerius_Sygale

reften wrote: »

werewolf is pointless, was just a silly 15% buff. Back to vamp I go.

If you weren't AD, I would Silver Shards blast you to Oblivion...fortunately for you we are technically on the same side, even though all 8 of my characters are werewolves, which I am hardcore into. So naturally I despise Vampires, and hate that they get their pro-Vampire quests while the Werewolves are always just made out to be pure evil, they aren't all evil... Wild and ferocious, yes, but they have a brain, they aren't some quickened zombies with claws and fangs! >.<'

Telel

Telel started a feedback thread on the PTS part of the forums.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/201204/feedback-werewolves#latest

If anyone else wishes to maturely provide commentary on the matter in this most appropriate of spots this one encourages them to go there and chime in. That way it doesn't get buried as quickly under all the screaming drama threads

OzJohnD

I logged into my old PC account werewolf at the werewolf shrine remained lonely and hungry


NO ONE WANTS a free bite anymore !

*sob*

Daevyn

Leandor wrote: »

Daevyn wrote: »

The werewolf perk of Stm Regen was awesome, and made being a werewolf in PvP viable, even though the transformation isn't. Reason being. "Oh look someone is transforming into a werewolf, let me pull out my bow and 2 shot them as they finish said transformation." Vampires only stick out if you either A) have the Fighter perk to see them, or B)They use their ult. Otherwise you can't really tell. You can see when someone goes full wolf, and thus they become every archers instant target, and You can now howl enough to heal that fast enough, and when you try, you're literally doing nothing in the fight but futilely trying to sustain.

You can have nothing slotted for vampire and you still get the Regens, and while you may take more fire damage, the amount depends on balancing the vampire perks.

Werewolves gain nothing if you don't have the ult slotted. If they made the transformation faster, or allowed you to be mobile while transforming, then it wouldn't be so bad. But as of now, I'd drop my werewolf and go vamp just for the regens.

And I play both Vamp and WW so this is by no means a WWvVamp, it is just an observation of balance.

Wrong on both accounts.

1. You have to have the werewolf ultimate slotted to get the stamina regen, nothing says you have to be transformed. You still don't have poison vulnerability in human form.
2. You have to slot an ability from vampire skill line in order to get the vampire regeneration.

1) I'm sorry but that is just a waste of an Ult slot. 15% Stm Regen is not better than any Ult in the game. Period. People will forgot the regen for a damage ult everytime.

2)No they don't. They have to have a vamp ability slotted to get one of their Passive Abilities (a very good passive, but a passive none-the-less) It says nothing about losing the regens.

Leandor

Daevyn wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Daevyn wrote: »

The werewolf perk of Stm Regen was awesome, and made being a werewolf in PvP viable, even though the transformation isn't. Reason being. "Oh look someone is transforming into a werewolf, let me pull out my bow and 2 shot them as they finish said transformation." Vampires only stick out if you either A) have the Fighter perk to see them, or B)They use their ult. Otherwise you can't really tell. You can see when someone goes full wolf, and thus they become every archers instant target, and You can now howl enough to heal that fast enough, and when you try, you're literally doing nothing in the fight but futilely trying to sustain.

You can have nothing slotted for vampire and you still get the Regens, and while you may take more fire damage, the amount depends on balancing the vampire perks.

Werewolves gain nothing if you don't have the ult slotted. If they made the transformation faster, or allowed you to be mobile while transforming, then it wouldn't be so bad. But as of now, I'd drop my werewolf and go vamp just for the regens.

And I play both Vamp and WW so this is by no means a WWvVamp, it is just an observation of balance.

Wrong on both accounts.

1. You have to have the werewolf ultimate slotted to get the stamina regen, nothing says you have to be transformed. You still don't have poison vulnerability in human form.
2. You have to slot an ability from vampire skill line in order to get the vampire regeneration.

1) I'm sorry but that is just a waste of an Ult slot. 15% Stm Regen is not better than any Ult in the game. Period. People will forgot the regen for a damage ult everytime.

2)No they don't. They have to have a vamp ability slotted to get one of their Passive Abilities (a very good passive, but a passive none-the-less) It says nothing about losing the regens.

Click here, scroll down to Vampire, read "The passive supernatural recovery will be active if a vampire ability is slotted". Then look at your vampire and check what this passive does. Think about your second statement. What other regen influencing things a vampire has except for the reduced health regeneration and its non working counter passive?

Daevyn

My bad I was thinking it was the Undeath. I apologize for that. But still only needing one ability slotted? You can't do that with Werewolf as the only ability you can slot (and use) in human form is the Ult. Being able to slot any Vamp skill and gain the passive is a good trade off. Their mistform is great, their ult is one of the best in the game. Again, I am not saying "buff ww nerf vamp" I'm not doing the whole ww vs vamp fight. I love both of them. But to make ww have to have ult to gain the bonus regen will not happen. Running nightblade, if I want regen now, I'll just bring in Siphoning Strikes to my bar and swap out my ult for one of the NB ults. WW no longer does anything for me at all at that point. So what, I got bit and upgraded all the abilities for nothing unless I use the transformation? Can't, transformation time in and out, takes way to long and you die. I've tried everyway possible to make WW work in PvP as an ult, and it can't As I transform I take damage, then have to CC break immediately, then have to start howling for self heals, at which time I'm not doing any kind of damage, and then if by miracle I'm not dead by the time my ult is wearing off, I begin to transform back to human and take damage, gaining none of the werewolf form buffs, and then die.

PvE, WW ult is still good in a majority of cases and these changes won't kill it.
PvP, there is no reason to be a WW ever again. Better to just be human, or go for vamp. I love my vamps, and pretty sure if these changes make it to live, my WWs are going to be gone and become vamps.

If they would have just lowered the regen instead of eliminating it completely, that would still make being a ww viable in pvp.