Everything you feared about stones is true... from their live broadcast...

Troneon

They want to make all pve and pvp players feel like they don't have enough champ points to keep up in the gankfest to push up exp potion sales.

Just look at patch notes lately...

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance or LFG tool or anything important...

Step one = Create new currency and get players into habit of spending new currency (crowns)

Step two = Create gameplay and design in such a way to cause frustration to players (low amount of champ points, constantly getting ganked and stuff stolen from you, long vet levels of grindfest 8000 etc etc)

Step three = Create a way of overcoming frustration with new currency (exp potions / subscriptions / grinding champ points)

Step four = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

South Park explains it well. Just Barrreeelllly fun lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2luhwy3KAE0

Sharee

Troneon wrote: »

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance...

Actually, if some mobs generate XP at a disproportionately higher rate than all other mobs, and they fix that - that's balancing.

But, don't mind me. Keep the conspiracy theories flowing.

Troneon

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance...

Actually, if some mobs generate XP at a disproportionately higher rate than all other mobs, and they fix that - that's balancing.

But, don't mind me. Keep the conspiracy theories flowing.

Well done, cherry picking one part of a post, defending ZOS and completely missing the point....not like you do that in all of your posts....

:P But don't mind me, keep the white knight defending flowing.

Rosveen

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance...

Actually, if some mobs generate XP at a disproportionately higher rate than all other mobs, and they fix that - that's balancing.

But, don't mind me. Keep the conspiracy theories flowing.

What if the rate is disproportionate because all others mobs were already hit with the nerf stick earlier? See what "balancing" did to Craglorn XP.

Sharee

Troneon wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance...

Actually, if some mobs generate XP at a disproportionately higher rate than all other mobs, and they fix that - that's balancing.

But, don't mind me. Keep the conspiracy theories flowing.

Well done, cherry picking one part of a post, defending ZOS and completely missing the point....not like you do that in all of your posts....

:P But don't mind me, keep the white knight defending flowing.

I am not required to comment on every silliness written in a post if i want to comment on one of them, am i?

Tavore1138

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance...

Actually, if some mobs generate XP at a disproportionately higher rate than all other mobs, and they fix that - that's balancing.

But, don't mind me. Keep the conspiracy theories flowing.

Well done, cherry picking one part of a post, defending ZOS and completely missing the point....not like you do that in all of your posts....

:P But don't mind me, keep the white knight defending flowing.

I am not required to comment on every silliness written in a post if i want to comment on one of them, am i?

Legally, I think you do - it's rule 37823b of the internet.

Sharee

Rosveen wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance...

Actually, if some mobs generate XP at a disproportionately higher rate than all other mobs, and they fix that - that's balancing.

But, don't mind me. Keep the conspiracy theories flowing.

What if the rate is disproportionate because all others mobs were already hit with the nerf stick earlier? See what "balancing" did to Craglorn XP.

Whatever the reason for some mobs giving much more xp than others - fact is if they do, they are unbalanced. You want the players in your game spread out evenly over the content, not all bunched up around one spawn because that one gives 2x as much XP as the others.

Sharee

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance...

Actually, if some mobs generate XP at a disproportionately higher rate than all other mobs, and they fix that - that's balancing.

But, don't mind me. Keep the conspiracy theories flowing.

Well done, cherry picking one part of a post, defending ZOS and completely missing the point....not like you do that in all of your posts....

:P But don't mind me, keep the white knight defending flowing.

I am not required to comment on every silliness written in a post if i want to comment on one of them, am i?

Legally, I think you do - it's rule 37823b of the internet.

Drat. I have a huge backlog then

EgoRush

Has there been much word on the new gear other than a set for nuking shields down supposedly? That sounds pretty PvP-specific, though perhaps the new content will have enemies that shield more *shrug* that would be interesting. I can only think of Valkyn that has a shield when he ports between platforms.

Either way, I think the ability to steal TV stones by killing other players is interesting. Those that are stuggling can simply save up their money and buy it. It's not like every PvE stamina build went into Cyrodiil to grind AP for their Ravager...they bought it from PvPers in all likelihood, same with magicka builds and Cyrodiil's Light rings. It will be the same for the new TV stone-bought sets that are useful in PvE. I really don't see what the problem is.

Sacadon

Thread is growing faster than I can catchup reading it...

So jumping ahead to ask that we are able to keep at least 2 stones. While the possibility of losing all is fun, I think it's too extreme for most players and will therefore prevent many from even trying. I'm more interested in the longevity of the game than just what may be fun for me. And I think this moment is pivotal in the types of players you want to attract and retain.

Also, when this is released please re-communicate through all channels your ask for players to provide their feedback on the TV looting approach in-game as we all know these forums represent a very small vocal population of players. It will also reinforce that any game direction chosen based on player feedback actually comes from many sources and not just the forums.

FoxPT

In a game like TES in a MMO mode there always be painfull to the development TEAM figure out the perfect solution for everyone, because there is no way to get that.

In a MMO we have 100% PVPers, 100% PVEers, loads of gamers that like to experiment everything that a game can give and they direct themselves for what they like more.
I don't understand most of the negative comments i see in the foruns, its simple rage, i want this i what that, that its not fair, that its not good, not to mention the way people refer to other players when they don't agree with their own position.

Chill out guys its a game and i think people forget the base idea of it, having fun spending some hours (or lot for some) having fun.

You don't want that another player gank you and stole your stones don't do the new PVP (yes because there is a new pvp system more in that later) because i am sure if you luckily kill a player when traveling form PVE dungeons to safe position i am sure you will enjoy it, but if other way around "oh my god this game sucks".

I positioned myself in gamers list that like to try everything that game have but i spend more time in what i like more, i do very low PVP i only doing it if my friends get together and if so if i die its part of the experience, i choose to go there and be kill and when i kill someone (or help to kill because i am a healer) i smile "Yeah kill you eat dust" ....(now run he is going to get his revenge )

Now with the "new PVP system" yes new because i dont get it why we have to get a new stone system when we have AP points. Probably because ZOS thinks it will be the only way to bring more people to PVP if that so, ok its a valid reason but still dont get why we have so many different options for everything AP, Gold Keys, Silver Keys, TV Stones sometimes seems diferent games in the same spot.

But in the end its all about choices people has to choose what they like more in the game and leave and what they dont like

Merlin13KAGL

EgoRush wrote: »

Has there been much word on the new gear other than a set for nuking shields down supposedly?

You mean sets that do damage?

EgoRush

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Has there been much word on the new gear other than a set for nuking shields down supposedly?

You mean sets that do damage?

Well specifics on the 5-set bonuses that are often interesting/gimmicky. All I've heard is that a set has been created that does extra damage against shields - so shield stackers in PvP will have a counter I guess. Unsure if anything else is known on other sets yet. I'm dying to find out!

Vahrokh

Sharee wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

This update is not about appealing to the PvE masses though.

- That's why PVE players are the building block at the bottom of the food chain, required to farm TV stones?

Believe it or not, but PvP players are capable of farming trash mobs for stones just as well as PvE players are, if not better.

PvP players do go to PvP areas for the thrill of encountering and fighting other players, true, but that does not mean they sit on their hands until a player target happens to wander by. The surrounding mobs and the stones they drop are a welcome bonus.

Believe it or not, players don't born with a "PvPer" or "PvEer" stamp on their forehead.

The moment you PvPer start killing NPCs to grind VTs, then you have just become a PvEer until you are done with killing NPCs.

Vahrokh

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance...

Actually, if some mobs generate XP at a disproportionately higher rate than all other mobs, and they fix that - that's balancing.

But, don't mind me. Keep the conspiracy theories flowing.

Well done, cherry picking one part of a post, defending ZOS and completely missing the point....not like you do that in all of your posts....

:P But don't mind me, keep the white knight defending flowing.

I am not required to comment on every silliness written in a post if i want to comment on one of them, am i?

You are not required commenting silliness with another silliness either.

Game's slowly being adapted to a F2P model, in order to grab money with that model you need to show an attractive objective and a victory feeling, but put them behind a "boredom and pain" gate. A wall that may conveniently be opened by shelling money.
The XP nerfs are just "polishing" the gate so that nobody can get a free meal.

Samadhi

.

Vahrokh wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

This update is not about appealing to the PvE masses though.

- That's why ZOS put in 2 PvE instances?

- That's why PVE players are the building block at the bottom of the food chain, required to farm TV stones?

PvE players are not the building blocks. Only pure-PvE players seem to believe that they are.

If no pure-PvE player ever enters into Imperial City, the system still functions in its entirety.

Contrary to the belief of some, PvP players do not need PvE players to kill PvE mobs; they are capable of doing it themselves, and do so on a daily basis in Cyrodiil keeps already.
However, many do dislike that there is no risk/reward factor in 99% of the game zones where they are expected to do the mob killing.

Pallmor

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.

There is no risk to one side is the entire point. The only risk is to the side collecting stones from the mobs. There is zero risk to the pvp guilds who will gank people as they try to hit the bank. There needs to be more risk to the PVP side and reduce the amount of loss to like 10% for the other.

You assume there will be no pvp guilds looking to DEFEND the people getting ganked. Good pvp guilds can now charge a nominal fee to help defend others in OC.

Ive played many games with player looting. Not once didnt anyone try and defend anyone else. It was ALL take and no give. This game will be the exact same.

Agreed. I think players are much more likely to betray one another than help one another. The only players I see helping each other are guildees and members of the same zerg.

Pallmor

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

Daenerys wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

I'm a marketer and a gamer so this statement makes me incredibly frustrated. This DLC is not being marketed as PVP only. There seems to be a huge disconnect between the devs and marketing dept. I am happy PVPers are getting much needed content, but why is there so much PVE in the Imperial City if it is meant for the PVP player?

This is copy/pasted from this page on your website and may be the cause of some of our aggrevated confusion:

The Imperial City offers many activities you can participate in. Whether you're interested in strictly PVE, PVP, or a little of both, here are some of the ways you might choose to spend your time in the Imperial City:

• Run through the White-Gold Tower or Imperial City Prison dungeons with three friends. (You can also queue for these dungeons outside of the Imperial City, but you must have the DLC game pack.)
• Battle enemy-alliance players and Molag Bal's forces, including the Xivkyn, in the Imperial Sewers and six Imperial Districts.
• Earn Daedric trophies from your monster kills to open Treasure Vaults—found around the Imperial City—for Veteran Rank 16 jewelry sets and other rare finds.
• Play through the Imperial City storyline, started by the Drake of Blades.*
• Collect Tel Var Stones by defeating Molag Bal's minions and enemy alliance players—and try to keep yours from being taken!
• Enter the Imperial Sewers and hunt Trove Scamps for gold and crafting supplies, and Cunning Scamps for Tel Var Stones.
• Search for Xivkyn motif Chapters to craft the new Xivkyn style armor and weapons.
• Get powerful new Veteran Rank 16 weapons and armor by completing the White-Gold Tower and Imperial City Prison dungeons (and the Undaunted Pledges for them), and Veteran Rank 16 armor sets by trading in your Tel Var Stones.
• Craft three new weapon and armor sets via the set-specific crafting stations found in Imperial City.
• Earn new collectibles by completing achievements, slaying Molag Bal's elite forces in the Imperial Sewers, and by trading in Tel Var Stones.

7 out of 10 points specifically advertise PVE aspects of the game, while only 3 are PVP oriented.

Now for another example of mixed message marketing from this page:

Imperial City DLC Game Pack Features & Content

With the purchase of the Imperial City DLC game pack, you get access to the full Imperial City zone. That includes the following:

• All content is available to players that are level 10 and up
• A brand new PvP/PvE space, including the six Imperial City Districts
• New quests and key characters within the Imperial City*
• One new Imperial City PvP Public Dungeon: The Imperial Sewers
• Two new PvE Imperial City group dungeons with Normal and Veteran versions: White-Gold Tower and Imperial City Prison
• The Tel Var Stone system
• 23 completely new Veteran Rank 16 item sets, only available in Imperial City
• Treasure Vaults that contain new Veteran Rank 16 set jewelry and a chance for even rarer finds
• Xivkyn racial motif style
• New collectibles only available in Imperial City (pets, polymorphs, and a costume)

*This one made me very happy and this close to purchasing... until I read your comment. Why are you ostracizing your players? I love The Elder Scrolls and any wee bit of lore or quests, I'm there! But you are telling me this DLC is not for me.

If this truly is PVP only DLC then kindly market it as such. Why are there so many PVE elements if it is only for PVP players? I PVE more than I PVP but was very interested in the new quests and characters as well as the 2 new PVE dungeons. Not to mention the new armor, weapons, and just new content in general. I would have braved the PVP part, but you are telling me not to purchase this. Why?

Afterthought: perhaps I should have bolded the few PVP only aspects...

Don't take it literally, the Imperial City DLC is a PVP/PVE mixed experience just like Cyrodiil itself, but to enjoy the PVE elements (besides the 2 new group dungeons and their vet modes) you have to be open to participate in PVP and this is what Rich Lambert was talking about because it is a PVP focused DLC and it is time PVPers get some love and this will not change (in response to all PVEers crying in the forums that it is unfair to force them to PVP so they can enjoy their PVE, it is a mixed experience and will remain so)

Dont take it literal? He LITERALLY said if you like PVE dont bother with this update that Orsinium is for you. How else are we supposed to interpret that statement? He said exactly to everyone if you dont like pvp dont bother with buying IC. It is ONLY for pvp.

Yeah it was crystal clear to me. If you're a PvPer, buy IC. If you're a PvEer, wait for Orsinium. Couldn't be more clear.

I just wish they had released them both at the same time, and been upfront about their respective audiences from the get-go.

Korah_Eaglecry

FoxPT wrote: »

In a game like TES in a MMO mode there always be painfull to the development TEAM figure out the perfect solution for everyone, because there is no way to get that.

In a MMO we have 100% PVPers, 100% PVEers, loads of gamers that like to experiment everything that a game can give and they direct themselves for what they like more.
I don't understand most of the negative comments i see in the foruns, its simple rage, i want this i what that, that its not fair, that its not good, not to mention the way people refer to other players when they don't agree with their own position.

Chill out guys its a game and i think people forget the base idea of it, having fun spending some hours (or lot for some) having fun.

You don't want that another player gank you and stole your stones don't do the new PVP (yes because there is a new pvp system more in that later) because i am sure if you luckily kill a player when traveling form PVE dungeons to safe position i am sure you will enjoy it, but if other way around "oh my god this game sucks".

I positioned myself in gamers list that like to try everything that game have but i spend more time in what i like more, i do very low PVP i only doing it if my friends get together and if so if i die its part of the experience, i choose to go there and be kill and when i kill someone (or help to kill because i am a healer) i smile "Yeah kill you eat dust" ....(now run he is going to get his revenge )

Now with the "new PVP system" yes new because i dont get it why we have to get a new stone system when we have AP points. Probably because ZOS thinks it will be the only way to bring more people to PVP if that so, ok its a valid reason but still dont get why we have so many different options for everything AP, Gold Keys, Silver Keys, TV Stones sometimes seems diferent games in the same spot.

But in the end its all about choices people has to choose what they like more in the game and leave and what they dont like

If I want to play a game that has me constantly looking over my shoulder and worried about what might be around the next corner Ill go play a game like Aliens: Isolation. I play this game because it wasnt about griefing other players. Thats changed.

Hope499

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

FoxPT wrote: »

In a game like TES in a MMO mode there always be painfull to the development TEAM figure out the perfect solution for everyone, because there is no way to get that.

In a MMO we have 100% PVPers, 100% PVEers, loads of gamers that like to experiment everything that a game can give and they direct themselves for what they like more.
I don't understand most of the negative comments i see in the foruns, its simple rage, i want this i what that, that its not fair, that its not good, not to mention the way people refer to other players when they don't agree with their own position.

Chill out guys its a game and i think people forget the base idea of it, having fun spending some hours (or lot for some) having fun.

You don't want that another player gank you and stole your stones don't do the new PVP (yes because there is a new pvp system more in that later) because i am sure if you luckily kill a player when traveling form PVE dungeons to safe position i am sure you will enjoy it, but if other way around "oh my god this game sucks".

I positioned myself in gamers list that like to try everything that game have but i spend more time in what i like more, i do very low PVP i only doing it if my friends get together and if so if i die its part of the experience, i choose to go there and be kill and when i kill someone (or help to kill because i am a healer) i smile "Yeah kill you eat dust" ....(now run he is going to get his revenge )

Now with the "new PVP system" yes new because i dont get it why we have to get a new stone system when we have AP points. Probably because ZOS thinks it will be the only way to bring more people to PVP if that so, ok its a valid reason but still dont get why we have so many different options for everything AP, Gold Keys, Silver Keys, TV Stones sometimes seems diferent games in the same spot.

But in the end its all about choices people has to choose what they like more in the game and leave and what they dont like

If I want to play a game that has me constantly looking over my shoulder and worried about what might be around the next corner Ill go play a game like Aliens: Isolation. I play this game because it wasnt about griefing other players. Thats changed.

So after INTENSIVE research, I finally found a logical and reasonable solution to this epidemic.

Stay out of PvP....

EQBallzz

Soulshine wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

If that is the case then why did you raise the level cap two levels and not give PvE players any reasonable way to level up? Why is there a new high end gear system that only revolves around PvP? Are pure PvE players expected to just stay at v14 until the next DLC?

If you are doing ANY group content AT ALL, you will easily get to v16 very quickly. There are repeatables to do in Craglorn, there are all the undaunteds silver and gold, there is DSA and v DSA, Trials, etc. This is assuming you are already done with every thing else in every zone. If you are not done with that, you would likely make v16 in a couple days just from vet level quests. Gear options are still going to be quite numerous given dungeon rescaling, the new undaunteds, and the new two dunegoens in IC. You can still get stones no one can take from you to buy crafting mats, and you can also buy them from other players. Options abound.

At v14 the only real option you have is Craglorn and that is terrible XP and I suspect even with the boost it's getting it will still be fairly terrible (and much of it isn't solo friendly depending on class/skill). To date most people have leveled in the v10 zone but I think it greys out at 5 levels below your level so at best you could get one level there. Other zones will be too low level. 4 man dungeons is awful XP. Mostly there is just awful group based XP.

Vahrokh wrote: »

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

I must confess you at ZOS are going a way very which is very hard to understand for an end user.
I play online games since when they were text based and "network" meant "analog modem"...
... in all this time I have never seen a multiplayer game where:

1) (Before IC) Levelling up content just stops at about 3 levels below levels cap and then the player is left with no level up content.

2) PvE raid instances dropping deconstruct-worth gear whereas best in slot stuff drops in PvP.

3) PvP rebalances continuosly adversely affecting PvE gameplay. Just because SWTOR does it does not mean it's a good idea to duplicate.

4) Adding an "Imperial City is meant for the PvP player" however that's where the best PvE gear is going to be achieved (again).

5) It's a PvP espansion but level cap is going to be raised (typically a PvE oriented operation).

It's confusing to say the least, irritating could be a better term.


Also, to all those claiming "just wait for Orsinium", it's like exclusively putting high heels shoes in a shop and saying men with broken shoes: "wear these shoes or, if you want shoes for men, just come back in a year".

Most MMOs i played (actually all of them) in more than 10 years had no dedicated leveling content like eso at all, a few quests for a gear or two here and there in the entire game AND 463246324639824638946 mobs all around waiting for the players to kill and grind to their hearts content, rinse and repeat alone, in groups, in guilds until max level and until you finally get that best gear after 4384938473 tries, in comparison to this ESO is a welcome breath of fresh air in the MMO scene, yeah, the last 3 vet ranks have currently no content dedicated to leveling them, but it's easy as hell to get these ranks and will be even more now in update 7 with the xp increases and reduction of xp required in each vet level.

Just a few days ago, me, a casual pve/pvp player who was vet 11 leveled in 2 days of CASUAL play to vet 14 doing a few quests in crag with a group, undaunted pledges, some quests to get the achievements of Cyrodiil and a bit of pug and guild PVP.

Let the PVPlayers have their content, it's the only content we will get since the release of eso MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, while PVE got all the love until now, and this is the only future PVP content announced (besides PVP part of the justice system that probably was scraped because of all the cries in the forums) until now while ZOS already said to be working on the following PVE ZONES: Orsinium, Murkmire, Clockwork City, Abah's landing and Mephala's realm.

1) Nobody paid you to play Korean grinders for 10 years straight. I have played 2 and since then I refuse to torture myself further again.

2) "PvE got all the love", WHERE? 1 bugged, stinky region with group gated content nobody does anyway because killing ***2*** mobs in Bankorai / The Rift (with CP bonus) gives more XP than completing a 5-6 steps long Craglorn quest???

I have 30% of my guild who quit in Summer 2014 come back when ESO became TU and they could immediately play along everybody else, because since then nothing changed and they were perfectly "aligned" with the others.

If you want to be ANYWHERE close to fair, you have to say "both PvPers and PvEers are dramatically content starved, PvPers happen to have it even worse". You and many others are falling into the "let's make the poor fight against the poor" trap so commonly employed at all levels these days.

Last but not least, PvP's content is PvP itself. I've played EvE and Warhammer for years without them getting an ounce of update (any Factional Warfare player can attest this, CCP released FW and let it rot for years until recently). Warhammer fired their devs completely, so from 2008 to 2013 they had *1* update and that's it. 1 in 5 years.
Yet both of those games have been awesome to play, because PVPers don't need a "raid boss" or "new gear".
PvP "doctrines" change all the time, emperors too.
And so did game balance, several times, usually butchiering fully functional PvE builds.

3) They can talk about Orsinium and the fairy lands and the rainbow colored unicorns all day long, ZOS lost players trust, we don't even know if they still have a functional development team or not. The huge slowdown is worrysome to say the least.
Seeing is believing now. Announce Orsinium => believe when it'll appear on my map, not a second sooner.

This is the best post I have read yet on this subject. It's one thing I don't get when people keep saying there are no PvP updates. There has been constant balance/class changes with PvP as the basis for the changes even when it hoses PvE players. PvP by design is player driven combat and Cyrodiil is supposed to be a huge PvP sandbox to play in. What was expected other than IC exactly? In fact, isn't the fact that it's not "content" at all the whole point? PvP is supposed to be about combat and geographical conquest not "content".

The fact that they raised the level cap yet again and stuck the only PvE content and end game upgrades inside a PvP wrapper is perplexing. I could maybe understand if there was an equivalent PvE activity for those players to work on outside of IC but there isn't.

It would be like if they released a PvP arena that dropped the best PvP gear but to get to it you had to slog through a difficult 2 hour PvE raid and if you died you had to start at the beginning. Oh well..if you don't like PvE just don't do it! You have Cyrodiil so just do that instead and buy your PvP gear from PvE players at jacked up, inflated prices instead of participating in the content. Ooh and then I would also need to add in some random "PvP'ers suck at PvE har har" and "you don't deserve rewards because you are teh suck" type of comments.

Sharee

Vahrokh wrote: »

The moment you PvPer start killing NPCs to grind VTs, then you have just become a PvEer until you are done with killing NPCs.

In that case however the PvE'rs that you claim are the "building block required for farming TV's" are hardly "at the bottom of the food chain.", like you said.

Anyone who thinks that they are is in for a nasty surprise.

JediRift

Can't wait for this system!

I will die a lot, I will lose my stones a lot. They are digital stones, in the grand scheme the stones and the game mean very little.

I will have fun.

I will love losing and gaining digital stones.

None of it will matter.

I will not cry.

I will have fun.

GNRNCSBLSS

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

If I want to play a game that has me constantly looking over my shoulder and worried about what might be around the next corner Ill go play a game like Aliens: Isolation. I play this game because it wasnt about griefing other players. Thats changed.

Something's a little off about you bro... mainly because games like that are without a doubt, the most fun.

Like just imagine you and a couple friends get in there farming a couple mobs, always looking around, or having a buddy scout around, and after 15 mins, you see an enemie group, you all are acting all cautious and *** and finally BOOM fighting breaks out, and less than a minute later, you each walk away with that enemy groups hundreds of stones, enough stones to buy 2 pieces of v16 gear!

Obviously this could go the other way, but at the same time, you just have to play smart... you should be worried about going there by yourself because that's not how it was designed, and quite honestly, I would cry if they took out the PvP griefing aspect of IC b/c then it would just be another grind zone.

Is that really what you want? Another grind zone? As it is, IC is going to require plenty of teamwork which I'm soooo ready for, additionally, my only real complaint would be that the zone should be much bigger, like at least the size of glenumbra or something.

GorraShatan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

First, we want to thank everyone for posting their feedback so far. As we mentioned on ESO Live last week, the new Tel Var Stone system is intended to be high risk, high reward, and will bring a lot of excitement to PvP. We encourage everyone to try it out on the PTS once it's available and let us know what you think! We'll be keeping a close eye on feedback, and will make adjustments if necessary without compromising the intent of the system.

Honestly, at first I groaned when I heard there was some new currency we'd need to purchase mats. But the PvP aspects of this are awesome.

helediron

DDuke wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

After reading 25 pages of internet tear soaked nonsense and a few good posts allow me to point some things that where not initially shrouded in mystery when you purchased the ESO(TU) product.

Cyrodiil is the centerfold of the The Banners War, this entire games advertising for PVP is based around it, IC is the epitome and epicenter of the The Banners War.

It is a video game, where you already are without consequence for anything you do. TV stones add a factor for PvPers, it is not meant for the PvE only players of the game. So if you feel powerless, then PvP is not for you, the best answer is to simply stay away from PvP content - you are NOT forced to PvP, but if you want the gear; then you will learn how to adapt and overcome to reduce the powerless feeling you may get from being ganked a few times.

The Bounty hunter portion of the Justice system already got sunk to the bottom of the cryhard trench, so don't screw this up.

It is pointless to say to PvE players to stay out of IC. The VR level is increasing, there will be new gear, and now TV stone harvesting is in place that mixes PvE and PvP. No one can turn down that new gear.

The system now places all the risk and effort to PvE players. Rewards go to PvP players without effort nor risk. Cyro is about organized trains and they get the biggest benefit if 100% loot is implemented. Drop the percentage to 10 and THEN both sides have same risk, effort and reward. Yes, gankers can't just drop to sewers and collect jackpots. Instead to get something they need to work hours, just as PvE players have to.

The 10% loot will KEEP PvE players harvesting mobs because low loss can be shrugged off. PvE players staying in IC is the best option for PvP players too. High loss will sink the feature to cryhard trench, as we have already seen happening.

The actual question here is gear and how to get it. The 1.6 had most of the BIS gear to PvP side and top PvE trial gear was crap. Lots of good PvE gear forces PvP players to grind content they don't like. This can't go on. The solution is pretty much done into this DLC: the TV shop. Place the best gear into TV shop and let both PvE and PvP people have access to it the way they want to play. TV stones are welcomed feature. They implement the token system that kicks out the most hated gear grind, the RNG loot. We all know the grief of gettin e.g. Valkyn Skoria medium infused head. The RNG grind will be replaced by token grind. But the difference is that token grind WILL eventually give the gear we want.

I think ZOS has two choices:
- drop loot percentage to 10.
- keep 100% loot in sewers but add TV stone farming to IC dungeons.

The second is the "stay out of cyro" option. There would be an alternative farming option for pure PvE players. The daily quests that give a stone box, if done as previous dailies, give just a small fraction what farming/grinding would give. They are no serious solution., just a gloss-over attempt.

I don't play much PvP, but when i play, it strikes how small it has dwindled to. There are not many players there, really. The IC DLC could be something to lure new blood to PvP (pun intended). Use the opportunity. But hanging into the hardcore 100% will just turn away PvE mass. Cyrodiil will dwindle even further, until next year ZOS turns it to carebear housing development zone.

Since I'm tired of writing the same stuff over & over again, I'll just link you the thread I created, which answers every point & question in your post: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/197989/imperial-city-tel-var-stones-explained-for-disgruntled-players

You are too tired. I didn't find answers nor much connections to what i wrote. Just another list of opinions. The discussion has evolved further from that.

So I do have to type it down, do I?

helediron wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

After reading 25 pages of internet tear soaked nonsense and a few good posts allow me to point some things that where not initially shrouded in mystery when you purchased the ESO(TU) product.

Cyrodiil is the centerfold of the The Banners War, this entire games advertising for PVP is based around it, IC is the epitome and epicenter of the The Banners War.

It is a video game, where you already are without consequence for anything you do. TV stones add a factor for PvPers, it is not meant for the PvE only players of the game. So if you feel powerless, then PvP is not for you, the best answer is to simply stay away from PvP content - you are NOT forced to PvP, but if you want the gear; then you will learn how to adapt and overcome to reduce the powerless feeling you may get from being ganked a few times.

The Bounty hunter portion of the Justice system already got sunk to the bottom of the cryhard trench, so don't screw this up.

It is pointless to say to PvE players to stay out of IC. The VR level is increasing, there will be new gear, and now TV stone harvesting is in place that mixes PvE and PvP. No one can turn down that new gear.

• Every dungeon is scaled up to V16, including loot inside them.
• Gear bought by Tel Var stones is BoE, meaning you can purchase all of it with gold.

Rest of your comment is irrelevant. You're commenting on how this content for risk/reward gameplay seeking PvPers shouldn't be for risk/reward gameplay seeking PvPers, but for PvErs (since that is what it becomes when risk is non-existent, or close to that).

Also:

helediron wrote: »

The system now places all the risk and effort to PvE players. Rewards go to PvP players without effort nor risk. Cyro is about organized trains and they get the biggest benefit if 100% loot is implemented. Drop the percentage to 10 and THEN both sides have same risk, effort and reward. Yes, gankers can't just drop to sewers and collect jackpots. Instead to get something they need to work hours, just as PvE players have to.

Is false, simply on the basis that there isn't one faction of PvPers and one faction of PvErs, nor is the world so black & white in the first place as many people enjoy both activities, especially MMO players.

PvPers always run the risk of running into other PvPers, or a big group of PvErs, or both and If you think taking down people in PvP doesn't require effort, you're sadly mistaken.

In fact, if he's a good PvPer his risk will be exponentially higher than that of those PvErs, since he'll likely be carrying many stones to use the modifier to his advantage.

This is true for people running in trains as well, though I doubt they will be that popular for several reasons:

Stones from mobs are distributed among the group, meaning bigger groups get very few of them.
People in trains die very often. Elsewhere in PvP it is not a problem, you simply get resurrected & train goes on.
In Imperial City however, those train people will get picked off one by one, losing their stones every time in the process.


And sorry, but this discussion hasn't evolved at all and I doubt it will as long as people keep being ignorant.

That is exactly why i prefer 10% . Trains need then more effort, and they get worn down. Otherwise they use hit&run tactics to collect majority of available stones. It's rather simple math. A train of 20 players need to kill 20 mob farmers to get the average amount of stones of one player. But if percentage is ten, they get tenth in one sweep. They have to stay there longer time and have the risk and effort higher, just like mob farmers have to.

We already see these tactics widely used in Cyro: tower, scroll, bridge, keep door farming.

Sting864

I've been reading this topic... and I am curious to know if any of the complainers have actually ever done some of the PVE content that currently exists in Cyrodiil.

Aneima

This is why in every mmorpg I have ever played I always level a stealth character first.

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

This mob will no longer generate exp, the mob will no longer spawn as quickly....this mob...exp exp exp nerf nerf nerf.. that is most of the focus on patch notes lately, not fixing balance...

Actually, if some mobs generate XP at a disproportionately higher rate than all other mobs, and they fix that - that's balancing.

But, don't mind me. Keep the conspiracy theories flowing.

Well done, cherry picking one part of a post, defending ZOS and completely missing the point....not like you do that in all of your posts....

:P But don't mind me, keep the white knight defending flowing.

I am not required to comment on every silliness written in a post if i want to comment on one of them, am i?

You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker.

Don't mind me, I'm just commenting on a silly post.I just hope I don't look like an azz in the process.


You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker,You are a cherry picker!

Avenias

Sting864 wrote: »

I've been reading this topic... and I am curious to know if any of the complainers have actually ever done some of the PVE content that currently exists in Cyrodiil.

. Its silly to compare cyrodii pve with ic because of a simple fact, ic is a tiny map in comparison, one where u cannot just chill in 1 of the many grinding spots and not worry of being ganged suddenly from the back. Moreover, u loose nothing and its also a fast travel mechanism to get out and find another spot to chill at.

helediron

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

So if you feel powerless, then PvP is not for you, the best answer is to simply stay away from PvP content - you are NOT forced to PvP, but if you want the gear; then you will learn how to adapt and overcome to reduce the powerless feeling you may get from being ganked a few times.

LOL. "you are NOT forced to PVP" .. no, you're right, if we don't want access to VR16 gear we don't have to PVP .. if we DO want access to gear appropriate for that level of content then we're FORCED to PVP.

Well this is not exactly true. While there is new gear in IC there is also new gear that drops from all the scaling dungeons.

The whole 'forced to PvP' thing is a little off the initial topic but....

I suppose it will depend on what the new sets actually are - if they are mostly epic PvP focused sets then it shouldn't really matter to PvE purists whether they can get them or not... if there is top rank PvE focused gear that can only be gained via TV stones then people may be a little more justified in being annoyed.

Equally if it is the only way to obtain the VR15/16 crafting materials then, again, people have a right to be a little upset - this would be the first time a crafting material was not freely available to those who want to spend time in the appropriate region gathering it and having made a lot of fine promises around crafting over the life of this game this would be a bit of a backtrack since the whole point of crafting is to be able to gather the mats, refine them, make gear and sell stuff - which is negated if you're having to buy the materials in refined form from guild stores.

Looking at the prices things like Ravager, Shadow Walker and Morag Tong sell at in guild stores I can see why people who don't PvP might feel they are being held to ransom or might feel happier if some of the equivalent level sets obtained in dungeons could be sold in the same way so it was more of a two way street.

Very much this. I think it is very good that PvP players get a DLC devoted to them. But ZOS mixed lots of PvE in there including crafting. THEN crafters like me, who deal with high amounts of materials step in to watch their rights. Crafting must work, material collection must work and i do want to earn my own gear.

In 1.6 PvP gear was sold at high prices while my PvE drops were BoP and unsellable. This can't go on. That is why i want to make sure i can farm TV stones and get the gear myself, whatever it will be. Just make that work and the storm will vanish.