The way these Tel Var Stones are going to work sounds terrible...

amasuriel

Corrupted_Soul wrote: »

So much negativity from people :'D you haven't even tried it and you're already complaining. Omg. It's no wonder ZOS take barely anything people say on here seriously, it's 99% complaints. When did gamers become so entitled?

Entitled and concerned are not the same things.

Nobody yet on this thread has said "I want to be able to solo grind stones and mats in total safety at a rate higher than PvP or group PvE activites" or "I don't want to be able to have anything bad happen to me".

What they are saying is, based on past experiences in this game and the information so far, there is risk they could prevent this set of updates from being fun for a lot of people. Since there is no alternate path for advancement, those people will leave or otherwise not pay Zeni so much money, which could lead to trouble for a struggling game.

Its not unreasonable, and its not whining to be worried that you cannot progress in the game without being ganked and all your progress removed at regular intervals, especially since many of these people do not enjoy PvP AT ALL and would not be in a PvP zone if there was alternatives available.

Korah_Eaglecry

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I think the system sound awesome and interesting. Finally a real consequence for deaths in PVP. Battles and fights will get more tense and exiting.

I hate how people want everything handed to them, without working for it...

You mean handed to them by ganking another player and taking something they spent hours farming? You mean handed to them like that?

Only masochists think there needs to be a consequence to death like that in game. We already have gear that degrades with use and even more so with death. And if you die three or so times youre in for a nice chunk of change to pay out to fix it.

This is not going to sit well the community as more and more people become aware of what they intend for the Tel Var Stones.

amasuriel

RustedValor wrote: »

Whiners will always whine. PVE players should just buy the new gear from guild traders if they can't hack it in pvp, the same way they buy the best in slot elite PVP sets with gold. Personally I can't stand grinding mobs, the challenge in PVE in this game is a joke and only the trashiest of the trash groups get whiped. I for one am glad they have a real challenge with real rewards coming to this expansion. Then again I play Darksouls, Dayz, and old school MMO's with full loot and world pvp so I don't care about griefers since griefing was the objective of those games lol. The way I handle griefers is playing smart and not sucking at the game. Now I actually have a reason to get powerful because there are real bosses to fight, IE players who are more powerful and skilled.

I hear this type of stuff all the time from PvP players, but my experience has been that many PvPers are terrible at high end PvE.

Oh sure, your burst damage is great, but you don't have situational awareness of your group, don't rez, don't stack for AOE and heals etc. When enemies don't die in 5 seconds they don't know what to do.

Where is your Hardmode SO or vDSA leaderboard since you are the awesomest evar and too good for PvE? Were you the person the other day who posted a vid of soloing vDSA round 10?

Korah_Eaglecry

Alphashado wrote: »

I appreciate and understand all the concern. But why don't we just wait till the PTS launches and check it out for ourselves before we pull the fire alarm?

I remember when the patch notes for 1.6 hit. People were freaking out about various things like DPS nerfs and changes to set bonus's. All that hysteria seems a little foolish now.

I suggest we hold off on the panic button until we actually see for ourselves what its like.

How likely is ZOS to pull the Looting of TV Stones by the time its in PTS? They more then likely wont at that point since its so close release.

This doesnt need testing to know that its been done before and its failed before. There is no room for a harassment mechanism in this game.

TheBull

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Congratulations! You have reached the Imperial City! Now turn around and go away, you're not welcome. Only elitists and griefers allowed.

So bad.

People had to fight to get you in there. Who the hell are you to think you can reap all the rewards with 0 effort? Elitist much? Save your grief.

RustedValor

Look noobs, you dont spend hours farming these stones. You grab a few, bank, wash rinse repeat. Its the same formula as every pvp game involving looting out there. More risk comes with more reward, sounds good to me. Play smart and you wont have huge setbacks. If you dumb enough to farm a lootable item all night without banking frequently then you are just dumb and deserve to lose them. Also if you are going to get big loot, you roll with a group. Second of all PVE players will easily be able to get the IC gear without PVP since its been stated that it can be traded. Just run your dungeons, buy the stuff with gold, gg no more crying.

And remember the PVP players on your faction will watch your back and show you the ropes. The PVP community is all about team work. We want everyone on our team to be as scary as possible so we can roll over the enemy like a band of brothers.

Psychobunni

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Are you guys paying attention to this at all? I know PVP is deserving of "new things" and agree it's due first. But a lot of people feel it's once again at the cost of PVE'ers. I hope you guys are considering the complete turnoff this is for a huge amount of players and set up the loot % accordingly.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

nimander99

Theres gonna be a lot of tear drinking going on, that's for sure.

Korah_Eaglecry

RustedValor wrote: »

Look noobs, you dont spend hours farming these stones. You grab a few, bank, wash rinse repeat. Its the same formula as every pvp game involving looting out there. More risk comes with more reward, sounds good to me. Play smart and you wont have huge setbacks. If you dumb enough to farm a lootable item all night without banking frequently then you are just dumb and deserve to lose them. Also if you are going to get big loot, you roll with a group. Second of all PVE players will easily be able to get the IC gear without PVP since its been stated that it can be traded. Just run your dungeons, buy the stuff with gold, gg no more crying.

And remember the PVP players on your faction will watch your back and show you the ropes. The PVP community is all about team work. We want everyone on our team to be as scary as possible so we can roll over the enemy like a band of brothers.

PvP Players are team players? Tell that to the guys in the EP on the NA PS4 Server.

Elitetownie

amasuriel wrote: »

RustedValor wrote: »

Whiners will always whine. PVE players should just buy the new gear from guild traders if they can't hack it in pvp, the same way they buy the best in slot elite PVP sets with gold. Personally I can't stand grinding mobs, the challenge in PVE in this game is a joke and only the trashiest of the trash groups get whiped. I for one am glad they have a real challenge with real rewards coming to this expansion. Then again I play Darksouls, Dayz, and old school MMO's with full loot and world pvp so I don't care about griefers since griefing was the objective of those games lol. The way I handle griefers is playing smart and not sucking at the game. Now I actually have a reason to get powerful because there are real bosses to fight, IE players who are more powerful and skilled.

I hear this type of stuff all the time from PvP players, but my experience has been that many PvPers are terrible at high end PvE.

Oh sure, your burst damage is great, but you don't have situational awareness of your group, don't rez, don't stack for AOE and heals etc. When enemies don't die in 5 seconds they don't know what to do.

Where is your Hardmode SO or vDSA leaderboard since you are the awesomest evar and too good for PvE? Were you the person the other day who posted a vid of soloing vDSA round 10?

Lol No, just no.

Tholian1

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I think the system sound awesome and interesting. Finally a real consequence for deaths in PVP. Battles and fights will get more tense and exiting.

I hate how people want everything handed to them, without working for it...

You mean handed to them by ganking another player and taking something they spent hours farming? You mean handed to them like that?

Only masochists think there needs to be a consequence to death like that in game. We already have gear that degrades with use and even more so with death. And if you die three or so times youre in for a nice chunk of change to pay out to fix it.

This is not going to sit well the community as more and more people become aware of what they intend for the Tel Var Stones.

On the surface, IC looks delicious, but is going to leave many with a bad taste in their mouths when they are consistently set back on getting their pretty new armor because they keep getting robbed of the currency required to get them.

zdkazz

Its not full loot like I want but I will take it! needed a break from mortal online anyway

zdkazz

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Why not make it a toggle? If you turn it on you can loot others and be looted, if you turn it off you cannot loot others and cannot be looted.

That way everyone can be happy.

If you argue that you want to be able to loot people who are not interested in that kind of risk vs reward gameplay then it just show that you are the kind of gamer that get your kick from annoying other players....

think of the abuse this could cause "OH NOES IM GETTING ATTACKED " hits toggle button from an addon that switches the looting to off then when he gets into a fight he can win switches it on to get more stones. it needs to be all or nothing or people will work the system and abuse it so they never loose stones.

Wizzo91

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I think the system sound awesome and interesting. Finally a real consequence for deaths in PVP. Battles and fights will get more tense and exiting.

I hate how people want everything handed to them, without working for it...

You mean handed to them by ganking another player and taking something they spent hours farming? You mean handed to them like that?

Only masochists think there needs to be a consequence to death like that in game. We already have gear that degrades with use and even more so with death. And if you die three or so times youre in for a nice chunk of change to pay out to fix it.

This is not going to sit well the community as more and more people become aware of what they intend for the Tel Var Stones.

The don't buy the dlc. It is easy as that.

It was clear from the start that IC will be a PVE and PVP zone.

Because of people of you all new MMOs are watered-down carebare themeparks. There should be at least some consequences for dying.

You will have to earn your stones. Group up with your friends and the probability of being ganked will reduce drastically. Play intelligently - use your brain. You will lose some stones, yes(According to your skills, group, strategies). But you will also gain some. It will be the same for every player. If you lose them constantly, you obviously do not deserve them.

The same goes for PVE if you have not noticed it... Not in the leaderboards? No Gold rewards. Not able to finish pledges? No key.
You get what you deserve. People nowadays want everything handed to them.

Why are we even discussing this - not even sure how they will work exactly.

Wizzo91

double post.

Korah_Eaglecry

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I think the system sound awesome and interesting. Finally a real consequence for deaths in PVP. Battles and fights will get more tense and exiting.

I hate how people want everything handed to them, without working for it...

You mean handed to them by ganking another player and taking something they spent hours farming? You mean handed to them like that?

Only masochists think there needs to be a consequence to death like that in game. We already have gear that degrades with use and even more so with death. And if you die three or so times youre in for a nice chunk of change to pay out to fix it.

This is not going to sit well the community as more and more people become aware of what they intend for the Tel Var Stones.

The don't buy the dlc. It is easy as that.

It was clear from the start that IC will be a PVE and PVP zone.

Because of people of you all new MMOs are watered-down carebare themeparks. There should be at least some consequences for dying.

You will have to earn your stones. Group up with your friends and the probability of being ganked will reduce drastically. Play intelligently - use your brain. You will lose some stones, yes(According to your skills, group, strategies). But you will also gain some. It will be the same for every player. If you lose them constantly, you obviously do not deserve them.

The same goes for PVE if you have not noticed it... Not in the leaderboards? No Gold rewards. Not able to finish pledges? No key.
You get what you deserve. People nowadays want everything handed to them.

Why are we even discussing this - not even sure how they will work exactly.

Where in the current PvP set up can you steal another players Alliance Points? No...You cant do that? Right. Okay. Then please pipe down.

RustedValor

amasuriel wrote: »

RustedValor wrote: »

Whiners will always whine. PVE players should just buy the new gear from guild traders if they can't hack it in pvp, the same way they buy the best in slot elite PVP sets with gold. Personally I can't stand grinding mobs, the challenge in PVE in this game is a joke and only the trashiest of the trash groups get whiped. I for one am glad they have a real challenge with real rewards coming to this expansion. Then again I play Darksouls, Dayz, and old school MMO's with full loot and world pvp so I don't care about griefers since griefing was the objective of those games lol. The way I handle griefers is playing smart and not sucking at the game. Now I actually have a reason to get powerful because there are real bosses to fight, IE players who are more powerful and skilled.

I hear this type of stuff all the time from PvP players, but my experience has been that many PvPers are terrible at high end PvE.

Oh sure, your burst damage is great, but you don't have situational awareness of your group, don't rez, don't stack for AOE and heals etc. When enemies don't die in 5 seconds they don't know what to do.

Where is your Hardmode SO or vDSA leaderboard since you are the awesomest evar and too good for PvE? Were you the person the other day who posted a vid of soloing vDSA round 10?

PLZ grinding zombies until you have enough CP to solo group content or have fast trial times does not equal skill. It just means some people don't have jobs and no girlfrend.

Wizzo91

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I think the system sound awesome and interesting. Finally a real consequence for deaths in PVP. Battles and fights will get more tense and exiting.

I hate how people want everything handed to them, without working for it...

You mean handed to them by ganking another player and taking something they spent hours farming? You mean handed to them like that?

Only masochists think there needs to be a consequence to death like that in game. We already have gear that degrades with use and even more so with death. And if you die three or so times youre in for a nice chunk of change to pay out to fix it.

This is not going to sit well the community as more and more people become aware of what they intend for the Tel Var Stones.

The don't buy the dlc. It is easy as that.

It was clear from the start that IC will be a PVE and PVP zone.

Because of people of you all new MMOs are watered-down carebare themeparks. There should be at least some consequences for dying.

You will have to earn your stones. Group up with your friends and the probability of being ganked will reduce drastically. Play intelligently - use your brain. You will lose some stones, yes(According to your skills, group, strategies). But you will also gain some. It will be the same for every player. If you lose them constantly, you obviously do not deserve them.

The same goes for PVE if you have not noticed it... Not in the leaderboards? No Gold rewards. Not able to finish pledges? No key.
You get what you deserve. People nowadays want everything handed to them.

Why are we even discussing this - not even sure how they will work exactly.

Where in the current PvP set up can you steal another players Alliance Points? No...You cant do that? Right. Okay. Then please pipe down.

We are not talking about alliance points - we are talking about Tel Var stones.

Rinmaethodain

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I think the system sound awesome and interesting. Finally a real consequence for deaths in PVP. Battles and fights will get more tense and exiting.

I hate how people want everything handed to them, without working for it...

You mean handed to them by ganking another player and taking something they spent hours farming? You mean handed to them like that?

Only masochists think there needs to be a consequence to death like that in game. We already have gear that degrades with use and even more so with death. And if you die three or so times youre in for a nice chunk of change to pay out to fix it.

This is not going to sit well the community as more and more people become aware of what they intend for the Tel Var Stones.

The don't buy the dlc. It is easy as that.

It was clear from the start that IC will be a PVE and PVP zone.

Because of people of you all new MMOs are watered-down carebare themeparks. There should be at least some consequences for dying.

You will have to earn your stones. Group up with your friends and the probability of being ganked will reduce drastically. Play intelligently - use your brain. You will lose some stones, yes(According to your skills, group, strategies). But you will also gain some. It will be the same for every player. If you lose them constantly, you obviously do not deserve them.

The same goes for PVE if you have not noticed it... Not in the leaderboards? No Gold rewards. Not able to finish pledges? No key.
You get what you deserve. People nowadays want everything handed to them.

Why are we even discussing this - not even sure how they will work exactly.

So dense, much brainwash, such PVP

Earn our stones? PVE players WILL EARN stones by spending time and playing content that AWARDS them the stones for TIME they put into it.

PVP players will STEAL stones from PVE players putting into it ZERO effort beside mashing buttons in some order or launching right macro in right time.

Who here is getting things handed to them with no work?

A player who spends 2 hours in dungeon earning his prize, or a player who is just in right place at right time and takes an opportunity to ruin someones day?

firstdecan

It will be interesting to see how many muggings it will take for people to rage quit because they lost all their special stones yet again.

Don't waste your time, some people are too casual to understand that.

Hey, I've probably played for a grand total of around 4000 hours by now or close to it .... {snip}

(not casting aspersions at anyone I quoted, which is why I removed the names. These seem to be representative comments.)

ZoS really needs to decide who their target market is.

Is it going to be the 'normal' person who has 10-20 hours a week to put into a hobby, or is it going to be the person who spends more time gaming than they do working or going to school. Either market could be potentially lucrative, the first by volume, the second by taking advantage of people who are potentially mentally ill.

This 'risk\reward' system in IC is designed to incentivize the highly competitive player who has time to 'hone their mad leet gaming skillz' (please note I laughed out loud when I typed that). It's also the only place where you will be able to get level appropriate gear, or the 'cool new' OP gear that exists to incentivize people to go here in the first place. What this ultimately means is that IC will effectively become a 'gangland' area dominated by cabals of no-lifers. It's fine that ZoS wants to put something like that in a game, but it seems odd that this behavior is being rewarded with the best and newest gear in the game. If this is what I wanted from a game, I would spend more time playing GTA V.

I think the only complaint is the same complaint that has come from all segments of players. It is the fact that this is the only path to the reward, and there isn't an alternative. This new content is essentially a high medieval fantasy version of GTA online, which is something not everyone is interested in. PvPers have long complained (and rightfully so) about the barrier of entry to competitive endgame PvP. The complaint was that they shouldn't be forced to go through all the PvE questing in order to build up a competitive character. I agree with that, the same way that I agree that PvEers shouldn't be forced into this content to get level appropriate gear or the new rewards (or held hostage to buying them from others).

As a side note, I honestly hope the people who keep yelling 'risk/reward' have the same mentality in the real world, especially when it comes time to get a job or compete for a promotion. I suspect that is not the case, because if it were no one would be risking their future by putting thousands of hours into a video game, for which there is ultimately no reward.

RustedValor

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I think the system sound awesome and interesting. Finally a real consequence for deaths in PVP. Battles and fights will get more tense and exiting.

I hate how people want everything handed to them, without working for it...

You mean handed to them by ganking another player and taking something they spent hours farming? You mean handed to them like that?

Only masochists think there needs to be a consequence to death like that in game. We already have gear that degrades with use and even more so with death. And if you die three or so times youre in for a nice chunk of change to pay out to fix it.

This is not going to sit well the community as more and more people become aware of what they intend for the Tel Var Stones.

The don't buy the dlc. It is easy as that.

It was clear from the start that IC will be a PVE and PVP zone.

Because of people of you all new MMOs are watered-down carebare themeparks. There should be at least some consequences for dying.

You will have to earn your stones. Group up with your friends and the probability of being ganked will reduce drastically. Play intelligently - use your brain. You will lose some stones, yes(According to your skills, group, strategies). But you will also gain some. It will be the same for every player. If you lose them constantly, you obviously do not deserve them.

The same goes for PVE if you have not noticed it... Not in the leaderboards? No Gold rewards. Not able to finish pledges? No key.
You get what you deserve. People nowadays want everything handed to them.

Why are we even discussing this - not even sure how they will work exactly.

So dense, much brainwash, such PVP

Earn our stones? PVE players WILL EARN stones by spending time and playing content that AWARDS them the stones for TIME they put into it.

PVP players will STEAL stones from PVE players putting into it ZERO effort beside mashing buttons in some order or launching right macro in right time.

Who here is getting things handed to them with no work?

A player who spends 2 hours in dungeon earning his prize, or a player who is just in right place at right time and takes an opportunity to ruin someones day?

The stones technically arent yours until you get back to the safe zone lol.

zdkazz

wow, I must say that this is my first themepark mmo, and I am surprised, you see I come from Mortal online, darkfall, and ultima, I am used to loosing everything when I die, everything armor cloths gold weps anything i was caring was lootable, this is just sad that people cry over loosing some stones grow a pair people its war, war is dangerous...

Jahosefat

This is why bolt escape is getting nerfed!! The real reason... sorcs would just bounce around grabbing stones here and there, poppin bubble, dodging snipes, then mad dash back to the bank!

Korah_Eaglecry

zdkazz wrote: »

wow, I must say that this is my first themepark mmo, and I am surprised, you see I come from Mortal online, darkfall, and ultima, I am used to loosing everything when I die, everything armor cloths gold weps anything i was caring was lootable, this is just sad that people cry over loosing some stones grow a pair people its war, war is dangerous...

Its a game. Ive spent time in a warzone. This is nothing like real risk and all these 'Risk/Reward is sooo fun' nimrods like yourself have no idea what real risk is. Especially since you wont be the one risking the loss of hours of play since youll be the one ganking people for the free prize.

Wizzo91

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

I think the system sound awesome and interesting. Finally a real consequence for deaths in PVP. Battles and fights will get more tense and exiting.

I hate how people want everything handed to them, without working for it...

You mean handed to them by ganking another player and taking something they spent hours farming? You mean handed to them like that?

Only masochists think there needs to be a consequence to death like that in game. We already have gear that degrades with use and even more so with death. And if you die three or so times youre in for a nice chunk of change to pay out to fix it.

This is not going to sit well the community as more and more people become aware of what they intend for the Tel Var Stones.

The don't buy the dlc. It is easy as that.

It was clear from the start that IC will be a PVE and PVP zone.

Because of people of you all new MMOs are watered-down carebare themeparks. There should be at least some consequences for dying.

You will have to earn your stones. Group up with your friends and the probability of being ganked will reduce drastically. Play intelligently - use your brain. You will lose some stones, yes(According to your skills, group, strategies). But you will also gain some. It will be the same for every player. If you lose them constantly, you obviously do not deserve them.

The same goes for PVE if you have not noticed it... Not in the leaderboards? No Gold rewards. Not able to finish pledges? No key.
You get what you deserve. People nowadays want everything handed to them.

Why are we even discussing this - not even sure how they will work exactly.

So dense, much brainwash, such PVP

Earn our stones? PVE players WILL EARN stones by spending time and playing content that AWARDS them the stones for TIME they put into it.

PVP players will STEAL stones from PVE players putting into it ZERO effort beside mashing buttons in some order or launching right macro in right time.

Who here is getting things handed to them with no work?

A player who spends 2 hours in dungeon earning his prize, or a player who is just in right place at right time and takes an opportunity to ruin someones day?

Interesting. The amount of time you put into something equal is what you earn/deserve?

It's something more like this:

Put in the minimal amount of time to get a defined award or
Put in a defined amount of time to get the largest award possible.

I'm not a ganker at all, but you'll have to admit it has always been and should always be a part of PVP(IC is a PVP zone you know?). I agree that damage is too high atm, but they are reducing it aren't they?

I'm done discussing this until we know more.

Rayste

[/quote]

On the surface, IC looks delicious, but is going to leave many with a bad taste in their mouths when they are consistently set back on getting their pretty new armor because they keep getting robbed of the currency required to get them. [/quote]

This, although we don't know the specifics...... I don't care either way as I played UO from 99-03 and am well aware of what 'hardcore' pvp games bring to the table. They have their ups and downs.... I have done my fair share of ganking, 1vXing, dueling, leaderboard chasing, etc.... but the element that this will promote given the types of players already present and the type of game this is already will be (for lack of a better word) BAD.

ZOS may want to reconsider dumping this new mechanic into the fray. Otherwise, I will be dusting off the ole nightblade and we can have some stealth wars of which the already ganky cyrodiil has yet to see.

Elitetownie

This is going to be so much fun for the wolves! I can almost taste the tears. The most fun part of all this is going to be when pvers start calling in friends for back up and then they too get owned by smaller more organized groups of pvp players.

"Why did i just get killed? You mean the enemy doesnt do the exact same thing every time i fight them? They have a brain? IM QUITING!

Psychobunni

Elitetownie wrote: »

This is going to be so much fun for the wolves! I can almost taste the tears. The most fun part of all this is going to be when pvers start calling in friends for back up and then they too get owned by smaller more organized groups of pvp players.

"Why did i just get killed? You mean the enemy doesnt do the exact same thing every time i fight them? They have a brain? IM QUITING!

Do you really believe many PVE'ers are even going to buy it if the loss % is too high? With some stating right off they won't just because of loot. I don't think the "wolves" are going to have as much easy pickings as you are thinking PTS will tell the tale

Jahosefat

If this draws large groups of mildly coordinated carebears to cyr for the leet gears, then it will be the best change yet