Away with the Champion System!

Tolmos

Cogo wrote: »

If you are Vet rank 2, should Vet rank 14 be removed because they are more powerful then you right now? Or only stall everyone else until YOU get vet 14?

No, because vet 14 is a realizable goal and a cap on how far that other player has progressed. It may have taken him months to go from VR1 to a fully geared VR14, but once he hits 14 he has capped out and that's that. I may take several months to catch up to him, but I can catch him.

Cogo wrote: »

If you had 100 gold and someone else have 100.000 gold, do you want gold removed?

Once we are fully geared out, he could have 1,000,000,000,000 gold and it won't change how we play against each other in combat, or how well he does in PvE vs me.

wraith808

Tolmos wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

If you are Vet rank 2, should Vet rank 14 be removed because they are more powerful then you right now? Or only stall everyone else until YOU get vet 14?

No, because vet 14 is a realizable goal and a cap on how far that other player has progressed. It may have taken him months to go from VR1 to a fully geared VR14, but once he hits 14 he has capped out and that's that. I may take several months to catch up to him, but I can catch him.

Cogo wrote: »

If you had 100 gold and someone else have 100.000 gold, do you want gold removed?

Once we are fully geared out, he could have 1,000,000,000,000 gold and it won't change how we play against each other in combat, or how well he does in PvE vs me.

But you can compete against others that are your same level currently. You don't have to have an immediate goal of catching up. You might get owned by a few players... but there will be others that you can own. And you'll have others on your team that can make up the difference until you get there.

OrangeTheCat

BugCollector wrote: »

There's already a couple of players with 1000 CP. The gap just keeps on growing and growing between these grinders and newbie players. They have no way to catch up, even with ZOS's catch up program.

My suggestion is to get completely rid of the Champion System, BUT compensate the grinders, who have 400 or more CP, with a unique title and mount or something.

Champion System is the cause of imbalance. Listen before it's too late.

This is so funny to me because "back in the day" when everyone hated VRs (and for very good reasons), the CP system was seen as a great idea. I quit the game months ago when the B2P announcement came out so missed out on reading about the changes vis CP. So, has CP been an abysmal failure like so much else that has been added to fix this game?

OrangeTheCat

If it is just about the fact that there are some people with no lives who have ground out all 1000 CPs (despite ZOS' claim about how nearly impossible that should be), then so what? "Catching up" only matters in PvP and there all ZOS has to do is what has been done in other games: fix stats to some high level for everyone equally; there is still the matter of gear but that can be dealt with in an intelligent manner.

Love_Chunks

Honestly I feel people are just using CP as a scapegoat for getting thrashed in pvp. There is no way of telling how many CP your opponent has thus you cant accurately claim that you lost because of it. Even more so no one can really claim that this is the case for anyone due to the fact that you can't be e everywhere at and see everyones' battles. Just purely claiming that CP =win is a disservice to those who have put int the time to learn the game and get good at it.

While i dont wholly disagree with a "catching up" mechanic the idea still falls flat because there is still a learning curve to this game. You could give new players 1000 free CP and they would still get owned in pvp and still wipe on trash mobs. It won't be a quick fix to this "CP imbalance".

washlov

Love_Chunks wrote: »

Honestly I feel people are just using CP as a scapegoat for getting thrashed in pvp. There is no way of telling how many CP your opponent has thus you cant accurately claim that you lost because of it. Even more so no one can really claim that this is the case for anyone due to the fact that you can't be e everywhere at and see everyones' battles. Just purely claiming that CP =win is a disservice to those who have put int the time to learn the game and get good at it.

While i dont wholly disagree with a "catching up" mechanic the idea still falls flat because there is still a learning curve to this game. You could give new players 1000 free CP and they would still get owned in pvp and still wipe on trash mobs. It won't be a quick fix to this "CP imbalance".

sure easy 50% +dmg and 50% less dmg is no reason
new players will have no chance on leaderboards and get slaughtered in cyrodiil and leave the game yes thats good for a game
think!!!!!!

Sharakor

I love how its always the noobs who complain because they're jealous

arena25

BugCollector wrote: »

There's already a couple of players with 1000 CP. The gap just keeps on growing and growing between these grinders and newbie players. They have no way to catch up, even with ZOS's catch up program.

My suggestion is to get completely rid of the Champion System, BUT compensate the grinders, who have 400 or more CP, with a unique title and mount or something.

Champion System is the cause of imbalance. Listen before it's too late.

Congratulations! You earned the "Liar Badge". +4 points.

Have a great day!

wildbear247

I think the Champion System just needs to be reworked, not completely removed. One way to approach the problem would be as follows:

2) Rework the Champion System for PvP, and for PvE content that's tracked via leaderboards. First I think it's great that the Champion System allows for almost infinite micro-improvements to your character. I think the problem for many people becomes how that system affects PvP and PvE content that's tracked via leaderboards. Basically I think folks are looking for a more fair playing field in both of these areas that isn't affected as much by someone spending countless hours grinding out champion points (otherwise a person who picks up the game 2 years from now will be hopelessly outclassed by the people who have farmed CPs during that time in PvP). For PvP in Cyrodiil I think a relatively simple way to fix this is by default to give every player in Cyrodiil 120 Champion Points (CPs) they can spend for The Warrior, The Mage, and The Thief (360 points total). Cryrodiil players should always receive this 360 CP bonus that only applies in Cyrodiil, and any extra CPs that a player has is disregarded in Cryodiil. Perhaps a similar strategy can be used for PvE leaderboard content. Outside of these 2 areas (PvP and for PvE content that's tracked via leaderboards) the Champion System remains unchanged so a player could enjoy all of the CPs they've grinded for and thereby wreck general PvE content.

This is part of an excerpt from a list of improvements I consolidated here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/192666/eso-review-and-list-of-improvements-enhancements#latest

Tavore1138

If people spent more time playing and less time complaining they would have more CP, I have just over 250 and I am married and work a full time job etc. I don't get more than a couple of CP a day at most maybe more at a weekend if we're not out and about nor do I 'grind' I simply play PvP, do trials, dungeons and writs and run about grabbing crafting mats and killing whatever I encounter on the way.

As always far too much is being made of this by people who would rather complain until others are dragged down to their level instead of playing better. Newsflash: those that play more will still beat you even if you have the same gear, skills and cp... what will you complain about then?

As ZOS often listen to the vocal minority I guess we'll have the answer to that question in about 6 months.

washlov

Sharakor wrote: »

I love how its always the noobs who complain because they're jealous

i dont get it why CP farmers waste their time instead of play the fun things in the game?
may for some people farming is a hobby but that dont needs a CP system
everyone was a noob first may you are afraid of new players which could fight you fair without the CP system

tordr86b16_ESO

washlov wrote: »

Sharakor wrote: »

I love how its always the noobs who complain because they're jealous

i dont get it why CP farmers waste their time instead of play the fun things in the game?
may for some people farming is a hobby but that dont needs a CP system
everyone was a noob first may you are afraid of new players which could fight you fair without the CP system

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_DqV1xdf-Y

Tavore1138

washlov wrote: »

Sharakor wrote: »

I love how its always the noobs who complain because they're jealous

i dont get it why CP farmers waste their time instead of play the fun things in the game?
may for some people farming is a hobby but that dont needs a CP system
everyone was a noob first may you are afraid of new players which could fight you fair without the CP system

People expect to see progress when playing games, ZOS came up with a long system that has diminishing returns the further into it you get... Most areas give a few % bonus on a skill.

But as I say the reality is that those that play more will on balance be better at the game whether they have 1cp or 1,000cp.

To put it another way you can give me Nadal's tennis racket and gear but he's still going to crush me like a bug because plays a f**kton of tennis and I hit a ball about a bit now and then. In the same way the guy who is playing PvP 12 hours a day and runs vDSA and Sanctum Hard Mode in between is not going to be beaten by the guy who quests for a couple of hours a week.

Erynyes

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

There's already a couple of players with 1000 CP. The gap just keeps on growing and growing between these grinders and newbie players. They have no way to catch up, even with ZOS's catch up program.

My suggestion is to get completely rid of the Champion System, BUT compensate the grinders, who have 400 or more CP, with a unique title and mount or something.

Champion System is the cause of imbalance. Listen before it's too late.

There isnt even a single player with 1000. The one who claimed it on here it was proven his screenshot was faked.

good joke man...good joke, ofcourse there are lawl.

not many, but there are.

though tbh they aint hurting nobody because all they do is grind :Pé

There has been one person who posted a screenshot. It was an obvious fake with many things wrong. a very poor photoshop job. There are no players period with 1000 cp.

well i know 2 player who have more than 1k and another that got like 900, the screenshot you talk about was prolly a fake, but there are 1k cp players, and yes like alcast said they are just grinding, one of them even said he's waiting to reach 1.2k to start pvpin again lol

washlov

lol you guys are afraid to lose your farmed CP that's all.......

have fun kill new players or dominate them you will play alone one day

tordr86b16_ESO

washlov wrote: »

lol you guys are afraid to lose your farmed CP that's all.......

have fun kill new players or dominate them you will play alone one day

UNLIMITED POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWER

Love_Chunks

washlov wrote: »

Love_Chunks wrote: »

Honestly I feel people are just using CP as a scapegoat for getting thrashed in pvp. There is no way of telling how many CP your opponent has thus you cant accurately claim that you lost because of it. Even more so no one can really claim that this is the case for anyone due to the fact that you can't be e everywhere at and see everyones' battles. Just purely claiming that CP =win is a disservice to those who have put int the time to learn the game and get good at it.

While i dont wholly disagree with a "catching up" mechanic the idea still falls flat because there is still a learning curve to this game. You could give new players 1000 free CP and they would still get owned in pvp and still wipe on trash mobs. It won't be a quick fix to this "CP imbalance".

sure easy 50% +dmg and 50% less dmg is no reason
new players will have no chance on leaderboards and get slaughtered in cyrodiil and leave the game yes thats good for a game
think!!!!!!

Lol where did you pull those numbers? They smell like unwashed booty. Heres some real numbers

Max spell resist 25%
Max Armor 13%
(all weights, only applies if 5 pieces are equipped)
Max phys elemental and magic damage 25%
Source: http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Also since when do new players make it to the leader boards of a year+ old game?

Next time try to actually argue the points of the post you are quoting instead of blurting the fisrst thing that comes to your mind like an impulsive child.

washlov

Love_Chunks wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

Love_Chunks wrote: »

Honestly I feel people are just using CP as a scapegoat for getting thrashed in pvp. There is no way of telling how many CP your opponent has thus you cant accurately claim that you lost because of it. Even more so no one can really claim that this is the case for anyone due to the fact that you can't be e everywhere at and see everyones' battles. Just purely claiming that CP =win is a disservice to those who have put int the time to learn the game and get good at it.

While i dont wholly disagree with a "catching up" mechanic the idea still falls flat because there is still a learning curve to this game. You could give new players 1000 free CP and they would still get owned in pvp and still wipe on trash mobs. It won't be a quick fix to this "CP imbalance".

sure easy 50% +dmg and 50% less dmg is no reason
new players will have no chance on leaderboards and get slaughtered in cyrodiil and leave the game yes thats good for a game
think!!!!!!

Lol where did you pull those numbers? They smell like unwashed booty. Heres some real numbers

Max spell resist 25%
Max Armor 13%
(all weights, only applies if 5 pieces are equipped)
Max phys elemental and magic damage 25%
Source: http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Also since when do new players make it to the leader boards of a year+ old game?

Next time try to actually argue the points of the post you are quoting instead of blurting the fisrst thing that comes to your mind like an impulsive child.

look into the CP system again and learn don't write when you have no knowledge

Love_Chunks

washlov wrote: »

Love_Chunks wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

Love_Chunks wrote: »

Honestly I feel people are just using CP as a scapegoat for getting thrashed in pvp. There is no way of telling how many CP your opponent has thus you cant accurately claim that you lost because of it. Even more so no one can really claim that this is the case for anyone due to the fact that you can't be e everywhere at and see everyones' battles. Just purely claiming that CP =win is a disservice to those who have put int the time to learn the game and get good at it.

While i dont wholly disagree with a "catching up" mechanic the idea still falls flat because there is still a learning curve to this game. You could give new players 1000 free CP and they would still get owned in pvp and still wipe on trash mobs. It won't be a quick fix to this "CP imbalance".

sure easy 50% +dmg and 50% less dmg is no reason
new players will have no chance on leaderboards and get slaughtered in cyrodiil and leave the game yes thats good for a game
think!!!!!!

Lol where did you pull those numbers? They smell like unwashed booty. Heres some real numbers

Max spell resist 25%
Max Armor 13%
(all weights, only applies if 5 pieces are equipped)
Max phys elemental and magic damage 25%
Source: http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Also since when do new players make it to the leader boards of a year+ old game?

Next time try to actually argue the points of the post you are quoting instead of blurting the fisrst thing that comes to your mind like an impulsive child.

look into the CP system again and learn don't write when you have no knowledge

Lol again you have said nothing. Dont just tell me im wrong show me why im wrong. Theres some missing information in the numbers I posted because I'm lazy. Im sure someone with you vast knowledge of the CP system could point it out.

washlov

Love_Chunks wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

Love_Chunks wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

Love_Chunks wrote: »

Honestly I feel people are just using CP as a scapegoat for getting thrashed in pvp. There is no way of telling how many CP your opponent has thus you cant accurately claim that you lost because of it. Even more so no one can really claim that this is the case for anyone due to the fact that you can't be e everywhere at and see everyones' battles. Just purely claiming that CP =win is a disservice to those who have put int the time to learn the game and get good at it.

While i dont wholly disagree with a "catching up" mechanic the idea still falls flat because there is still a learning curve to this game. You could give new players 1000 free CP and they would still get owned in pvp and still wipe on trash mobs. It won't be a quick fix to this "CP imbalance".

sure easy 50% +dmg and 50% less dmg is no reason
new players will have no chance on leaderboards and get slaughtered in cyrodiil and leave the game yes thats good for a game
think!!!!!!

Lol where did you pull those numbers? They smell like unwashed booty. Heres some real numbers

Max spell resist 25%
Max Armor 13%
(all weights, only applies if 5 pieces are equipped)
Max phys elemental and magic damage 25%
Source: http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Also since when do new players make it to the leader boards of a year+ old game?

Next time try to actually argue the points of the post you are quoting instead of blurting the fisrst thing that comes to your mind like an impulsive child.

look into the CP system again and learn don't write when you have no knowledge

Lol again you have said nothing. Dont just tell me im wrong show me why im wrong. Theres some missing information in the numbers I posted because I'm lazy. Im sure someone with you vast knowledge of the CP system could point it out.

easy over 50% dmg reduction .......


Medium Armor Focus
Increases your Armor by 13% when a Medium Armor set of 5 or more pieces is equipped.

Block Expertise
Reduces the cost of blocking by 25%

Spell Shield
Increases Spell Resistance by 25%.

Resistant
Reduces the amount of damage you take from critical hits by 25%.

Thick Skinned
Reduces the damage you take from damage over time effects by 24%.

Hardy
Reduces Poison, Disease, and Magic Damage dealt to you by 25%.

Elemental Defender
Reduces Flame, Frost, and Shock Damage dealt to you by 25%.

Bastion
Increases the effectiveness of damage absorbing effects by 24%.

Nourishing
Increases the effectiveness of healing potions by 25%.

Quick Recovery
Increases the effectiveness of healing received by 15.8%.

Molsondry

Simply put cap @ 360 makes it attainable for any casual player in 6 month....

And its gonna turn in like a Talent system. Real rpoblem isnt the cp system its the fact deminishing return isnt diminishing that much and the fact 3.6k is way to high and put botter/heavy grinder at too of a big advantage.

On top of putting it capped @ 360 remove the stats increase.

There fixed with 1 line of code(cap) and removal of couple line (stats increase)

Molsondry

Love_Chunks wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

Love_Chunks wrote: »

Honestly I feel people are just using CP as a scapegoat for getting thrashed in pvp. There is no way of telling how many CP your opponent has thus you cant accurately claim that you lost because of it. Even more so no one can really claim that this is the case for anyone due to the fact that you can't be e everywhere at and see everyones' battles. Just purely claiming that CP =win is a disservice to those who have put int the time to learn the game and get good at it.

While i dont wholly disagree with a "catching up" mechanic the idea still falls flat because there is still a learning curve to this game. You could give new players 1000 free CP and they would still get owned in pvp and still wipe on trash mobs. It won't be a quick fix to this "CP imbalance".

sure easy 50% +dmg and 50% less dmg is no reason
new players will have no chance on leaderboards and get slaughtered in cyrodiil and leave the game yes thats good for a game
think!!!!!!

Lol where did you pull those numbers? They smell like unwashed booty. Heres some real numbers

Max spell resist 25%
Max Armor 13%
(all weights, only applies if 5 pieces are equipped)
Max phys elemental and magic damage 25%
Source: http://asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/

Also since when do new players make it to the leader boards of a year+ old game?

Next time try to actually argue the points of the post you are quoting instead of blurting the fisrst thing that comes to your mind like an impulsive child.

New player get top every day . In wow you can catch up in a week if its early release and in a month and half gear wise if its late.. Yet most played mmorpg out there . seems to be working he?

Also look deeply into your calculator with the stats increase stacking with buff and passive uff and etc , your probly more then 50% stronger then a 0 cp char @3k cp

If you take 25% les dmg and do 25% more dmg .. your 50% stronger .. even more..

washlov

Molsondry wrote: »

Simply put cap @ 360 makes it attainable for any casual player in 6 month...

6 month is to long casuals will stop before
May 1-2 month after v14

Jonlrenicus

I'm sure this comment will get me nothing but grief, but these kind of arguments sum up everything wrong with this generation of people. "it's no fair, he has more time then me and gets rewarded?!?! i want to be on that lvl too, its not fair!' look, just because someone earned more than you does not mean you also deserve to have what they have, such is life, suck it up and move on. Bill gates has more money than me, and with the logic displayed in these arguments, the government should seize all his assets and distribute them to the masses.......aka socialism.......and that only helps those too lazy, unmotivated, or just plain not skilled enough to earn that kind of cash. That is essentially what some of you guys are asking for with this, saying it's not fair that people who are able to put in the work are rewarded, and you don't think its fair, and the *** of it is, you guys will get your way I'm sure.

And before anyone thinks I am one of those with unlimited free time to play and have 1000 CP, fact is i don't, i have ONE character in VR and his lvl is VR2 with like 14 CP. I have a wife and a life, but i don't begrudge those that have time to play, and don't think all that time investment should be undone by a few whiners claiming entitlement, just like i don't think people who wont work should get paid to sit on their ass playing video games, such is the welfare system. People who are physically unable to work and actually NEED the assistance, that is one thing, but that is a small majority, and this in not the place for that rant anyway, but it fits the motif. People will always want what someone else earns, and cry 'foul!' when they don't have it, and the developers will usually cave to those whining masses for fear of losing out on the bottom line, so keep being entitled children, sing your petitions for the removal of CP's cause you want to lvl the playing field and undermine those who put in the work, cause eventually you will get your way, the cry babies always do

tordr86b16_ESO

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

There's already a couple of players with 1000 CP. The gap just keeps on growing and growing between these grinders and newbie players. They have no way to catch up, even with ZOS's catch up program.

My suggestion is to get completely rid of the Champion System, BUT compensate the grinders, who have 400 or more CP, with a unique title and mount or something.

Champion System is the cause of imbalance. Listen before it's too late.

This is so funny to me because "back in the day" when everyone hated VRs (and for very good reasons), the CP system was seen as a great idea. I quit the game months ago when the B2P announcement came out so missed out on reading about the changes vis CP. So, has CP been an abysmal failure like so much else that has been added to fix this game?

CP has only caused more problems.

Pirhana7_ESO

ragespell wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

I don't really have a problem with the way the current Champion System works other than how players obtain Champion Points. The only change that needs to be made, in my opinion, is to shift Champion Point gain to completing objectives: quests, dungeons, trials, and PvP.

The only real problem right now is that people AFK grind 12 hours a day to create such a gap. Move Champion Point gain to actual content and the problem solves itself. Those who play the game the most deserve to be the best, not those who grind the most.

The system would still be flawed.
Given enough time, game population will spread in 1000 or more cp and PVE content will be impossible to balance.

CP system was a shortsighted move from ZOS IMHO.

Sorry for my bad english.

How would PvE content be hard to balance? You can do all end game trials with less than 100 CP EASILY right now. The only "balance" they would need to do is to add new end game PvE suited for players with more CP. That's it. Players with no CP get the current content, players with lots of CP get harder content.

Mmmm, so with 0-200 CP you can do this content.
Next content for people who have, let's say, 200+?

And people with 500+ CP? Will destroy new content in few days and leave the game?

Destroy new content and leave in a few days?IF you remove CPs, people will leave NOW because there is no progression or reason to keep pushing and nothing to aim for. CPs dont make you that powerful, it is very minimal progression that gets less effective the deeper you go inot CPs.

washlov

delete pls

LEGENDARYYY

Rune_Relic wrote: »

They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.

I don't think the current CP system is bad and skill > CP anyways, but a system in the lines of what you are explaining here would definitely be much better.

nice one

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO

BugCollector wrote: »

There's already a couple of players with 1000 CP. The gap just keeps on growing and growing between these grinders and newbie players. They have no way to catch up, even with ZOS's catch up program.

My suggestion is to get completely rid of the Champion System, BUT compensate the grinders, who have 400 or more CP, with a unique title and mount or something.

Champion System is the cause of imbalance. Listen before it's too late.

SUB lasts for 28 more days IF I don't hear from ZOS on a DATE for a change I'll unsub and continue to play F2P so NO you can't have my stuff.....(besides I don't have anything )

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO

BuggeX wrote: »

And? the Major Player Base has arround 200-300, wath is the Chance the 1000CP Player is 1hiting you in PVP?

Yah and how many of these players SUB? That's the real question.