Away with the Champion System!

BugCollector · July 2015

There's already a couple of players with 1000 CP. The gap just keeps on growing and growing between these grinders and newbie players. They have no way to catch up, even with ZOS's catch up program.

My suggestion is to get completely rid of the Champion System, BUT compensate the grinders, who have 400 or more CP, with a unique title and mount or something.

Champion System is the cause of imbalance. Listen before it's too late.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · July 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

There's already a couple of players with 1000 CP. The gap just keeps on growing and growing between these grinders and newbie players. They have no way to catch up, even with ZOS's catch up program.

My suggestion is to get completely rid of the Champion System, BUT compensate the grinders, who have 400 or more CP, with a unique title and mount or something.

Champion System is the cause of imbalance. Listen before it's too late.

There isnt even a single player with 1000. The one who claimed it on here it was proven his screenshot was faked.

tinythinker · July 2015

ZOS spent several months building it and it is part of the plan to remove veteran ranks. Don't see it being yanked with a "Sorry here's a horse" given to all of the people heavily invested in it.

c0rp · July 2015

1000 CP lol...why did they take away the LOL button again?

AlnilamE · July 2015

Yes. Because another rework of the progression system that delays new content for another 6 months is exactly what we need.

/sarcasm.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · July 2015

a 1000? hey why not over 9000 (to bad 3600 is cap)

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · July 2015

I agree it needs to go or be fixed. The moment in dawned on me that I would fall behind on champion points is the moment I lost my will to play. Instead of encouraging me to play its just making me feel uncompetitive and making me feel like quiting. Im only at 100 something champion points because I like to play other games as well and I have no chance at competing with these players at 1000. They should just convert all champion points into gold or xp(maybe even crowns if they are feeling generous) and be gone with it. Just keep adding more levels! Its the tried and true mmo formula that has worked to great success with other mmos. Its fun to get these little bonuses, but without a limit people are just getting way too far ahead and ruining the game for people that have other business in their lives.

I wouldn't be opposed to them making a limit on champion points that goes up every expansion. That way the uber grinders would never get to absurd distances apart from the average gamer. Say the limit would be 200 champion points for the current expansion, with wrothgar they could put it to 400 and increase the rate at gaining the first 200 up by over double. Then the expasion after that they would increase the cap to 600 and make the first 400 even faster to gain then before. No one would ever fall behind then unless you really just don't play at all. That feels about perfect to me, does anyone see any flaws in that? Ive been playing pretty casually this last patch due to this system and even I am almost at 200 so it seems about right.

Combine both my ideas and you end up with the champion point limits and for people over the cap they would get money, xp, or crowns. Is that not perfect? Who does this offend please work with me to iron this out. I can see the people with 1000 not being satisfied, but come on you can't stay op like that. Im pretty sure a maxed out champion point character puts even an emperor to shame. Its just way too much!

VoidBlue · July 2015

nooo, i just got up to 12 CP. I enjoy gaining CP its one of the fun things to look forward to while running through the other two factions.

i dont care if someone else has 1 or 5000 CP more than me, good for them for being amazing at the game. just gives me motivation and a goal to shoot for.

Zorrashi · July 2015

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

I agree it needs to go or be fixed. The moment in dawned on me that I would fall behind on champion points is the moment I lost my will to play. Instead of encouraging me to play its just making me feel uncompetitive and making me feel like quiting. Im only at 100 something champion points because I like to play other games as well and I have no chance at competing with these players at 1000. They should just convert all champion points into gold or xp(maybe even crowns if they are feeling generous) and be gone with it. Just keep adding more levels! Its the tried and true mmo formula that has worked to great success with other mmos. Its fun to get these little bonuses, but without a limit people are just getting way too far ahead and ruining the game for people that have other business in their lives.

I wouldn't be opposed to them making a limit on champion points that goes up every expansion. That way the uber grinders would never get to absurd distances apart from the average gamer. Say the limit would be 200 champion points for the current expansion, with wrothgar they could put it to 400 and increase the rate at gaining the first 200 up by over double. Then the expasion after that they would increase the cap to 600 and make the first 400 even faster to gain then before. No one would ever fall behind then unless you really just don't play at all. That feels about perfect to me, does anyone see any flaws in that? Ive been playing pretty casually this last patch due to this system and even I am almost at 200 so it seems about right.

Combine both my ideas and you end up with the champion point limits and for people over the cap they would get money, xp, or crowns. Is that not perfect? Who does this offend please work with me to iron this out. I can see the people with 1000 not being satisfied, but come on you can't stay op like that. Im pretty sure a maxed out champion point character puts even an emperor to shame. Its just way too much!

Wouldn't it be much simpler to put a max limit on how many champion points you earn per day?

BuggeX · July 2015

And? the Major Player Base has arround 200-300, wath is the Chance the 1000CP Player is 1hiting you in PVP?

Moonshadow66 · July 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

And? the Major Player Base has arround 200-300, wath is the Chance the 1000CP Player is 1hiting you in PVP?

Good point.

Dudis · July 2015

No, make it progressively harder to gain them.

The first 200 or so should be relatively easy to get then it gets harder an harder, getting really slow towards the end.

Kinda like dark age of Camelot did with its PvP ranks.
http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-ranks

For reference, rank 3L0 was really achievable by anyone in a couple if days, rank 5 was doable in a week in a good group. The game had been out for 11 years I think before anyone hit rank 13, which was the maximum at the time.

Your character grew stronger, sure, but you could compete just fine with only half that rank and that only took like a hundredth of the effort.

Akavir_Sentinel · July 2015

Dudis wrote: »

No, make it progressively harder to gain them.

The first 200 or so should be relatively easy to get then it gets harder an harder, getting really slow towards the end.

Kinda like dark age of Camelot did with its PvP ranks.
http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-ranks

For reference, rank 3L0 was really achievable by anyone in a couple if days, rank 5 was doable in a week in a good group. The game had been out for 11 years I think before anyone hit rank 13, which was the maximum at the time.

Your character grew stronger, sure, but you could compete just fine with only half that rank and that only took like a hundredth of the effort.

Then what's the point of that? Who wants to work that hard to attain maximum level when someone that is half that level and put out very little effort is just as effective?

Put in the time and effort required to gain the CP just like everyone else has. Some players aren't going to have as many CP's as others and never will, either because of their lack of effort or they simply don't have as much free time to play. Such is life....

[Deleted User] · July 2015

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Bromburak · July 2015

Remove Alliance skill lines and add a PvP champion line to "buy" active skills and passives for ranks and its a much more inviting and motivating end game and pretty similar to DAOC.

Dudis · July 2015

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

No, make it progressively harder to gain them.

The first 200 or so should be relatively easy to get then it gets harder an harder, getting really slow towards the end.

Kinda like dark age of Camelot did with its PvP ranks.
http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-ranks

For reference, rank 3L0 was really achievable by anyone in a couple if days, rank 5 was doable in a week in a good group. The game had been out for 11 years I think before anyone hit rank 13, which was the maximum at the time.

Your character grew stronger, sure, but you could compete just fine with only half that rank and that only took like a hundredth of the effort.

Then what's the point of that? Who wants to work that hard to attain maximum level when someone that is half that level and put out very little effort is just as effective?

Put in the time and effort required to gain the CP just like everyone else has. Some players aren't going to have as many CP's as others and never will, either because of their lack of effort or they simply don't have as much free time to play. Such is life....

Is not about grinding to the end, it's about getting some reward for the playstyle you already enjoy.
Also, I said compete with, not be on the same level. An equally skilled player/group would be smashed by the higher rank group, but most players aren't robots.

Imo CP xp should only be rewarded from PvP, endgame pve and maybe achievements too.

RinaldoGandolphi · July 2015

Honestly, they just need to decrease the max % across the board on the Champion system. Right now PVe content is a joke with 150 CP....all the CS passives like Elemental defender, Mighty, etc...anything percentage based needs to have its max value cut in half.

The CS was supposed to be a system of diminishing returns, not a system that makes the games pve content trival and gives large advantages in pvp. Just my take.

washlov · July 2015

its a linear boring system wich prefers 24/7 farmers and makes PVP unfair yes put it away
its only a timesink

Rune_Relic · July 2015

They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.

Akavir_Sentinel · July 2015

washlov wrote: »

its a linear boring system wich prefers 24/7 farmers and makes PVP unfair yes put it away
its only a timesink

Linear timesink? As are veteran ranks, AvA ranks, achievements, etc....

You want to do away with those too? All of these things take time and effort to achieve. Suck it up.

BugCollector · July 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

That's a fantastic idea!

demendred · July 2015

I say we keep it. Up the cap and allow people to buy more cp with crowns.

Rhakon · July 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression

WOW best idea EVER! @ZOS do this!

Akavir_Sentinel · July 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression

Though I do like having a ton of Champion Points and passives available to me, this is actually not a bad idea. Similar to the way that you are limited in your skill choices on your bar.

washlov · July 2015

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

washlov wrote: »

its a linear boring system wich prefers 24/7 farmers and makes PVP unfair yes put it away
its only a timesink

Linear timesink? As are veteran ranks, AvA ranks, achievements, etc....

You want to do away with those too? All of these things take time and effort to achieve. Suck it up.

they said its for individual the chars but atm you have to put points in warrior thief and mage equally
all you get is passives
one gives dmg the other protects you from the dmg
its boring

and yes there are already
vet ranks where is a end its like normal lvls
and AvA ranks which may takes to long but there is an end
and activ skills achievements is nice to have but dont make the game unfair

champion points prefers china farmers
it makes all ingame time where you don't get max xp feeling less worth and wasted time
its horrible for new players wich cant catch up

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · July 2015

Zorrashi wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

I agree it needs to go or be fixed. The moment in dawned on me that I would fall behind on champion points is the moment I lost my will to play. Instead of encouraging me to play its just making me feel uncompetitive and making me feel like quiting. Im only at 100 something champion points because I like to play other games as well and I have no chance at competing with these players at 1000. They should just convert all champion points into gold or xp(maybe even crowns if they are feeling generous) and be gone with it. Just keep adding more levels! Its the tried and true mmo formula that has worked to great success with other mmos. Its fun to get these little bonuses, but without a limit people are just getting way too far ahead and ruining the game for people that have other business in their lives.

I wouldn't be opposed to them making a limit on champion points that goes up every expansion. That way the uber grinders would never get to absurd distances apart from the average gamer. Say the limit would be 200 champion points for the current expansion, with wrothgar they could put it to 400 and increase the rate at gaining the first 200 up by over double. Then the expasion after that they would increase the cap to 600 and make the first 400 even faster to gain then before. No one would ever fall behind then unless you really just don't play at all. That feels about perfect to me, does anyone see any flaws in that? Ive been playing pretty casually this last patch due to this system and even I am almost at 200 so it seems about right.

Combine both my ideas and you end up with the champion point limits and for people over the cap they would get money, xp, or crowns. Is that not perfect? Who does this offend please work with me to iron this out. I can see the people with 1000 not being satisfied, but come on you can't stay op like that. Im pretty sure a maxed out champion point character puts even an emperor to shame. Its just way too much!

Wouldn't it be much simpler to put a max limit on how many champion points you earn per day?

No because they would still get ahead. If you put the limit to 5 they would still get 5 every day without fail. Plus then how would anyone catch up thats new to the game? Say 3 years down everyone is at 1000 something and you limit people to 5 per day. It just doesn't work.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.

I like this idea as well, the less forced grinding the better. I think people want to feel like they are getting stronger so I think my idea works better for that, but this works for me. There is alot of ways the champion system can stay and not feel like a forced grind, but in its current state it honestly feels like the old runescape(i have no idea how it is today). Years of grinding in order to reach max potential = EWW.

Sausage · July 2015

There has been rumours about "catch- up mechanic" but how long if ever we get it thats the question, Zen likes to lie to the forum to keep them happy it seems, so beware.

washlov · July 2015

Rune_Relic wrote: »

They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.

wow nice idea and it makes you experiment with the passives and makes chars more individual

Tolmos · July 2015

Zorrashi wrote: »

Wouldn't it be much simpler to put a max limit on how many champion points you earn per day?

Only if you calculate how many CP a player would have been able to achieve to this date using that system and take away any points people have accumulated above that amount.

Adding a limit on the max amount you can earn per day just solidifies the gap between those who gained using the current system, and those who did not. It's a guarantee that no one will ever catch up to them. The only people that would serve are those who have already made ample use of the current methods of CP gain.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO · July 2015

This problem will only become more and more large over time too. Once being maxed out on cp becomes the norm or pretty common new players will be virtually useless until they grind like mad. Non vet pvp will be dominated by people with vet characters who maxed out cp since new players wont even have unlocked them yet. That is a bit stupid is it not? The server meant for new players will just end up being a place for high cp people to spank low levels just like on the regular servers. How long will it be before they start balancing content around the idea that people have 1000+ cp. They have to or it will be too easy and if they do your not going to be useful to a group until you grind like mad.

The cp system literally cannot stay as is if they want the game to be healthy. You either want it to change or your...... well.......... not someone who gives a ***, thats for sure. Even just adding a catch up system does nothing to solve this problem. Unless they make it where you literally get a cp every quest its going to feel like a huge grind to catch up with everyone else because even then thats still 3600 quests you would have to complete. That is the same issue people have with leveling up and adding more vet levels. It forces you to grind and do things you don't find fun in order to catch up with everyone. Its honestly worse then just adding more levels because leveling up doesn't take any where near as long as getting 3600 cp does.

Faulgor · July 2015

washlov wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

They don't need to remove it and replace it with something else with 6 months of work.
All they need to do is add a CHAMPION BAR with 3 slots.
1 Warrior passive can be loaded.
1 Thief passive can be loaded.
1 Mage passive can be loaded.

Now it doesn't matter how many CP you have as you can only use 3 passive out of the 36.

People can grind away to their hearts content.
Someone with 300 CP will be just as powerful as anyone with 3600 CP..except they wont have 36 passive skills to choose from.

The stam/mag/health from each CP has to be nerfed though.

No power creep.
No power gap.
No gated content.
Endless progression
No gated endgame
Forced Build diversity.

wow nice idea and it makes you experiment with the passives and makes chars more individual

Exactly. I hate that you can max every passive, it makes them mandatory and turns every character into the same champion build in the end. It's just bad RPG design frankly.