PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

You dont need a keyboard to access that i think?

Help->Customer support->Provide feedback

No typing, did that on PC just with mouse, a basic controller. Should be possible on consoles too.

I hope this helps any true tank in eso (both in PC and consoles) to let ZOS know how stupid and unjust is this nerf, caused by fake tanks "dps with taunt" or "full stam build with sword and board" pretending to be tanks in PVP and in result, whole nerft will ruin PVE for every other player.

The Uninvited · July 2015

Halke wrote: »

I keep seeing this argument, and maybe I am just confused, but isn't block casting typically done with magica skills? So why not make magicka not regen when holding block? That would fix it, right?

Pay attention ZOS, the key to solve block casting maybe in this.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

I keep seeing this argument, and maybe I am just confused, but isn't block casting typically done with magica skills? So why not make magicka not regen when holding block? That would fix it, right?

Pay attention ZOS, the key to solve block casting maybe in this.

This is foolish for the same reason that a stam regen change is foolish.

Besides, all abilities, regardless their cost, can be block cast as long as they are instantly cast.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

What justifies a massive change to the game is a frustrating mechanic the detracts from a large portion of the game experience for a large number of players.

You are saying that holding block is a frustrating mechanic that detracts from a large portion of the game experiences for a large number of players.

You are implying that having to release block and then block isn't going to be a frustrating mechanic that detracts from a large portion of the game experience for a large number of players.

You are incorrect on both accounts.

Block casting is still currently a problem in PVP and does make bringing some people down a nightmare (especially given their relative damage output)<THE BRACKETS ARE IMPORTANT HERE. As for having to release block, there's only two instances I know of personally where that could even pose a slight problem (axes and VDSA) and the answer to that is simple > pop magma armour or bolstering darkness or stack shields and heavy attack for as long as you have the massive DR.

No, it's not a problem.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

ewhite106b16_ESO wrote: »

Block change is a good idea for pve and pvp - tanking should require more player skill then holding block constantly and casting taunts in pve. More player skill involved = good, timing of boss attacks for vdsa and trials should be adjusted where needed to acommodate timed blocking.

This change does not translate to more skill. If you browse the thread, then you will find the many ways that have been discussed that show this change could make tanking a less skill intensive roll.

Halke · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

I keep seeing this argument, and maybe I am just confused, but isn't block casting typically done with magica skills? So why not make magicka not regen when holding block? That would fix it, right?

Pay attention ZOS, the key to solve block casting maybe in this.

This is foolish for the same reason that a stam regen change is foolish.

Besides, all abilities, regardless their cost, can be block cast as long as they are instantly cast.

Yeah, I agree with you fully. Just felt their logic was a bit wonky. I know when I am on my stam toons I don't block cast, that is a good way to run the fetch out of stamina. All I do is PvE though so...

Domander · July 2015

I'm very much looking forward to this change with block. Block should be something used strategically.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Domander wrote: »

I'm very much looking forward to this change with block. Block should be something used strategically.

This. Time your blocks rather than tape down the key. Also confirmed with some tanks that run regularly that the Manti's autoattacks are indeed very slow on the swing timers and only will hit a proper tank build for 8-9k... it's just the specials (also a low swing speed) that hurt if you miss blocking, and those are as well-telegraphed as they look

. Just like in PVP you should only be blocking selectively/timing when, anyways... that just shifts it to PVE as well. I think it's a fix, frankly, for both just as much as eachother.

Avenias · July 2015

Another awesome update by ZOS. I am changing my tank back to dps next update, lets see who wants to tank now. Already a shortage of tanks. Again, Awesome ZOS.

Paulhewhewria · July 2015

I look at it like this in a perfect world were we had alot of tanks and they had skill/able to adapt I think this change wouldn't be,so bad but as it currently stands with not too many tanks/heals(like most mmos I've played).I think we will either see very good tanks or really really bad tanks come out of this,also a tank population decrease.I will advocate that we look to PTS testing for answers to our worries,but on a personal level I feel this in its current state is not a good way to go about the change.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · July 2015

Avenias wrote: »

Another awesome update by ZOS. I am changing my tank back to dps next update, lets see who wants to tank now. Already a shortage of tanks. Again, Awesome ZOS.

I'll gladly continue to tank - I just won't tank for people like you who'll be pulling shy of 10k dps because I won't be able to keep my stamina full for 10 minutes on bogdan while you crawl to bring him down. Nor will I be able to tank 4 axes when YOU slow down mage kills.

Avenias · July 2015

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Another awesome update by ZOS. I am changing my tank back to dps next update, lets see who wants to tank now. Already a shortage of tanks. Again, Awesome ZOS.

I'll gladly continue to tank - I just won't tank for people like you who'll be pulling shy of 10k dps because I won't be able to keep my stamina full for 10 minutes on bogdan while you crawl to bring him down. Nor will I be able to tank 4 axes when YOU slow down mage kills.

Thats really funny, considering i managed to kill bodgan by myself when the rest of the party died........

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Soriana · July 2015

...

Ummm, the gentleman you are calling [snip] is one of our community ambassadors. You are more than welcome to disagree with him but how about doing it with a little professionalism or respect?

Thats really funny, considering i managed to kill bodgan by myself when the rest of the party died........[/quote]

Congrats. So, because you were able to kill Bogdan all by yourself, someone else opinion is invalidated? I, as a tank, saved our entire group from wiping in nDSA when everyone else went down. Does that make DPS obsolete?

*sigh*

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Avenias · July 2015

Soriana wrote: »

,,,

Ummm, the gentleman you are calling [snip] is one of our community ambassadors. You are more than welcome to disagree with him but how about doing it with a little professionalism or respect?

Thats really funny, considering i managed to kill bodgan by myself when the rest of the party died........[/quote]

Congrats. So, because you were able to kill Bogdan all by yourself, someone else opinion is invalidated? I, as a tank, saved our entire group from wiping in nDSA when everyone else went down. Does that make DPS obsolete?

*sigh*

Ya its funny because of all the vet dungeons, he had to quote the easiest one.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Korah_Eaglecry · July 2015

I have yet to run into anyone in PvP that is block casting to the point that no one can slip in a hit. Typically the guys throwing up the shield and expecting to last drop the fastest.

Avenias · July 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I have yet to run into anyone in PvP that is block casting to the point that no one can slip in a hit. Typically the guys throwing up the shield and expecting to last drop the fastest.

I am very sure the people whining about block casting are the ones who got killed by someone doing it. So as usual, they need to push their bad ideas and affect PVE players.

NewBlacksmurf · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Food for thought: Make the "stamina regeneration stop while blocking" be a debuff tied to the Cyrodiil battle spirit thing. Voila, separated the PvP issue from PvE.

O K!

mousekime111rwb17_ESO · July 2015

Avenias wrote: »

Soriana wrote: »

...

Ummm, the gentleman you are calling [snip] is one of our community ambassadors. You are more than welcome to disagree with him but how about doing it with a little professionalism or respect?

Thats really funny, considering i managed to kill bodgan by myself when the rest of the party died........[/quote]

Congrats. So, because you were able to kill Bogdan all by yourself, someone else opinion is invalidated? I, as a tank, saved our entire group from wiping in nDSA when everyone else went down. Does that make DPS obsolete?

*sigh*

Ya its funny because of all the vet dungeons, he had to quote the easiest one.

Its the easiest one until you're stuck with a 5 minute long bogdan fight because people who think they're hotshit at everything and try and dps without taking any advice or doing any research can hardly pull even 10k dps.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Avenias · July 2015

mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Soriana wrote: »

I cant stop laughing at ur stupidity, you think it

Ummm, the gentleman you are calling stupid is one of our community ambassadors. You are more than welcome to disagree with him but how about doing it with a little professionalism or respect?

Thats really funny, considering i managed to kill bodgan by myself when the rest of the party died........[/quote]

Congrats. So, because you were able to kill Bogdan all by yourself, someone else opinion is invalidated? I, as a tank, saved our entire group from wiping in nDSA when everyone else went down. Does that make DPS obsolete?

*sigh*

Ya its funny because of all the vet dungeons, he had to quote the easiest one.

Its the easiest one until you're stuck with a 5 minute long bogdan fight because people who think they're hotshit at everything and try and dps without taking any advice or doing any research can hardly pull even 10k dps.

oh please stop, ur killing me from laughter. Elden hollow is the EASIEST dungeon in the game, to say otherwise means ur just a bad player. You dont need others to beat it, other players only makes it go faster.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Domander wrote: »

I'm very much looking forward to this change with block. Block should be something used strategically.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I'm very much looking forward to this change with block. Block should be something used strategically.

This. Time your blocks rather than tape down the key. Also confirmed with some tanks that run regularly that the Manti's autoattacks are indeed very slow on the swing timers and only will hit a proper tank build for 8-9k... it's just the specials (also a low swing speed) that hurt if you miss blocking, and those are as well-telegraphed as they look . Just like in PVP you should only be blocking selectively/timing when, anyways... that just shifts it to PVE as well. I think it's a fix, frankly, for both just as much as eachother.

There is going to be very little strategic about what is to come.

As has been written about many times. Stamina regeneration ticks occur every 2 seconds and enemy attacks occur all at different rates. That is especially so when multiple enemies are queing up different kinds of attacks against the tank.

Unblocking for the chance of getting a stamina regeneration tick during the small opportunity that it occurs while at the same time there is no incoming attack has nothing to do with strategy and everything to do with wild chance.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

Avenias wrote: »

Another awesome update by ZOS. I am changing my tank back to dps next update, lets see who wants to tank now. Already a shortage of tanks. Again, Awesome ZOS.

I wish I was able to do this, but do not have the FPS for it.

Lava_Croft · July 2015

I think the people angry about this change are just angry about the sticky residue on their right mouse button after they removed the tape that's been there for over a year.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

A

Avenias wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I have yet to run into anyone in PvP that is block casting to the point that no one can slip in a hit. Typically the guys throwing up the shield and expecting to last drop the fastest.

I am very sure the people whining about block casting are the ones who got killed by someone doing it. So as usual, they need to push their bad ideas and affect PVE players.

The tank is such an uncommon enemy in pvp that I am amazed it has received such tireless ire.

Avenias · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

A

Avenias wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I have yet to run into anyone in PvP that is block casting to the point that no one can slip in a hit. Typically the guys throwing up the shield and expecting to last drop the fastest.

I am very sure the people whining about block casting are the ones who got killed by someone doing it. So as usual, they need to push their bad ideas and affect PVE players.

The tank is such an uncommon enemy in pvp that I am amazed it has received such tireless ire.

Its not about being a tank, its about stamina regen and blocking obviously.

Shunravi · July 2015

Avenias wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

A

Avenias wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I have yet to run into anyone in PvP that is block casting to the point that no one can slip in a hit. Typically the guys throwing up the shield and expecting to last drop the fastest.

I am very sure the people whining about block casting are the ones who got killed by someone doing it. So as usual, they need to push their bad ideas and affect PVE players.

The tank is such an uncommon enemy in pvp that I am amazed it has received such tireless ire.

Its not about being a tank, its about stamina regen and blocking obviously.

but why block as a stamina build? thats just suicidal....

actosh · July 2015

Guys/Girls calm down. We will have to wait and see what skillchanges are being intruduced with the new blocking system.
U cant use the current game to say that it wont work. I dont think it will be a problem against hard hitting solo bosses like in trials. The Axes in AA were never a problem with low stam reg and i tell the Templars always that they can place there spears where they want to cause i dont need em. U just need to manage your ressources and the biggest impact this change will have for me is in vdsa, but only if i run with a low dps grp.

Next week we will have the chance to test this and as always, there will be a solution for every class to handle their Stam Management

.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

actosh wrote: »

Guys/Girls calm down. We will have to wait and see what skillchanges are being intruduced with the new blocking system.
U cant use the current game to say that it wont work. I dont think it will be a problem against hard hitting solo bosses like in trials. The Axes in AA were never a problem with low stam reg and i tell the Templars always that they can place there spears where they want to cause i dont need em. U just need to manage your ressources and the biggest impact this change will have for me is in vdsa, but only if i run with a low dps grp.

Next week we will have the chance to test this and as always, there will be a solution for every class to handle their Stam Management .

For the umpteenth time.

"We don't know if the new change to ping-pong, where players have to play with sponges rather than their traditional paddles is going to be really that bad. Who has tested if it is bad? Nobody. Plus there are a bunch of other changes that are happening which could make playing with sponges work a-okay! "

As I have also wrote time and time again. Tanking is currently about resource management. You can find my references to that in my signature links "keeping all resources balanced is the biggest job of the tank."

Personofsecrets · July 2015

I'll also just say this. I've sat idly by and watched games get destroyed by the developers before. I'm not letting that happen to the only roll I can enjoy in this game without a fight.

Don't be the person that is fine with a change that can be game ruining for others that same change hardly makes a compelling difference to you.

The Uninvited · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

I keep seeing this argument, and maybe I am just confused, but isn't block casting typically done with magica skills? So why not make magicka not regen when holding block? That would fix it, right?

Pay attention ZOS, the key to solve block casting maybe in this.

This is foolish for the same reason that a stam regen change is foolish.

Besides, all abilities, regardless their cost, can be block cast as long as they are instantly cast.

You're right. Sorry, I was drinking and not thinking last night

Personofsecrets · July 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Halke wrote: »

I keep seeing this argument, and maybe I am just confused, but isn't block casting typically done with magica skills? So why not make magicka not regen when holding block? That would fix it, right?

Pay attention ZOS, the key to solve block casting maybe in this.

This is foolish for the same reason that a stam regen change is foolish.

Besides, all abilities, regardless their cost, can be block cast as long as they are instantly cast.

You're right. Sorry, I was drinking and not thinking last night

Nothing to be sorry over. This thread has had all kinds of good discussion so far. Even if someone posts something that my not be totally right, at least it can help us all think about that point and develop our own points a bit further.