Console player experience's VR ranks for first time!

MCMancub

smokes wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

No, they can't both be referred to as grinding.

if you're not reading/listening/paying any attention to the quest text/storyline and are literally just going from objective to objective killing things along the way, that is grinding. no 2 ways about it.

over the course of 1000 quests, each may tell a different story, but if you dont pay any attention to the story you'll go from mob kill quests > talk to people quests > collect object quests > kill named mob quests > kill deadra > kill undead > kill beasts > click on item.

eventually it turns into grinding.

the story blurs the edges and tranforms it but if you're not paying any attention to the story and are busting through 20 quests an hour, it's grinding.

Even if you ignore what you're doing, there's still a structure that exists. There are clearly defined goals with beginning and end points. Even if you are AFK questing while watching Netflix, it isn't grinding. There's a central purpose to what you're doing. Much in the same way that driving around my block over and over isn't the same as me spacing out as I drive 10 miles to work every day.

Gidorick

Do you think it would be better if you obtained levels more quickly @Zevris. My thought is it's not the activity that's that problem, it's the lack of progression.

smokes

MCMancub wrote: »

Even if you ignore what you're doing, there's still a structure that exists. There are clearly defined goals with beginning and end points. Even if you are AFK questing while watching Netflix, it isn't grinding. There's a central purpose to what you're doing. Much in the same way that driving around my block over and over isn't the same as me spacing out as I drive 10 miles to work every day.

i'm not sure there's an oxford english dictionary definition for mmo grinding. so we're just arguing semantics and taking this thread way off course.

although the urban dictionary defines it as: Virtual Meaning: To perform repetitive tasks in a game, in order to level up the ranks.

i think: skip quest text > kill mobs > loot quest objective > skip quest text > complete quest > go to next quest > rinse/repeat, qualifies as grinding in my opinion.

there's a full wikipedia article devoted to it, but i honestly couldn't be bothered to read more than the first paragraph
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(video_gaming)

edit: brackets in the link apparently breaks the link, copy and pase if you need to.

Makkir

In all honesty, unless you're goal in PvP is 1vX, being VR1 in Cyrodiil isn't a huge deal or impeding to your progression. The goal of Cyrodiil is AvA type combat so if you're rolling with 1 of the many pug raids you will be fine. I did it from VR1 until VR7 or so, and then finished the remaining VR levels doing the Cadwell quests.

Hypertionb14_ESO

took long enough for the consoles to start in with the VR leveling hate.

PC has been doing this for over a year, and have been complaining for over a year.

no matter how much ZOS trys to polish the turd that is VR grind, it remains a turd.

Please just flush the turd ZOS

Rinmaethodain

Grinding? What grinding? Untill i reacher VR12

NEVER GRINDED in ESO

Just make sure you complete all quests in every zone. Caldwell gold and silver. Sidequests.

They give TON of exp and lot of cash, items for decon or vendoring.

It makes me laugh when people hit VR1 and start crying that they have to grind but they didnt expierence even 1/3 of whole game.

I love veteran rank lvls. I can finally make good gear without being afrad that in one minute ill outlevel it again.

Teiji

Zevris wrote: »

Snip

Hopefully will be this year when the final phases of the Champion System are done; the ability to do all quests on a single character is great, it allows you to get many achievements and so on.

What isn't great is the fact that it's nigh mandatory in order to progress - upon hitting level cap, "level 50" if you want to do some of the great content in game, you're required to level past the level cap of 50 in order to open up all of the game when you've just completed the main quest as well as all the content in your designated levelling area [your faction zones].

The VR system killed this great games reputation, not because it gives the ability to do all the quests on a single character [this is a positive] but the fact that upon hitting max level, you're forced to commit investing a wealth of time to become competitive and unlock content - which is odd because upon hitting max level you're able to earn champion points anyway.

Champion points which dictate your character's power level, not the soon-to-be-removed "Veteran Ranks". This will be great because new players will be able to hit level 50, begin gearing up to participate in "endgame" pve, pvp whichever they decide at their leisure! As well as increasing their power level through champion points.

For the new players I'll briefly mention some things - upon completing the main quest, you unlock "Silver" areas; this is different for each faction, but it's just the name given to the content of a different faction, same with "Gold", the mobs found in the areas increase in "veteran rank" and are a means of acquiring experience points which characters can use to acquire more Champion Points as well as the dreaded 'Veteran Ranks'.

Alp2760

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what you're saying but isn't the point that you don't go up a level every other day? That it leaves you something to work on and level over months? The game has barely been out a week and you are done with 1-50 already, if it only took you a few days for each level, why would you still he playing in 2 months time?

It doesn't seem too bad to me, I could change my tune of course but it sounds better than the end I am used to which is: log in, do several daily instances to earn marks, repeat this process for a couple weeks and buy a piece of gear repeat for a few months and complete the gear set. Play using said gear set for a month or 2, new content launches with new daily/weekly missions. Repeat this process for 3 years.

Doing the same instance every single day with the same voice overs, adds and bosses gets really tiring. At least from the sound of this, it might be slow but has variety and new things to do? I'd take that. Forget your rank or level or whatever and just ask, are you enjoying logging on and playing? If you were doing the same content but were max level, would you be having fun playing the missions and stories?

If yes, forget about what level you are log in, play your quests and enjoy the stories they bring. Treat ranking up as a nice surprise when it does happen.

That would be my approach. If I answered no, I would play a different game and be done with it. As I have with plenty of other games. I never complained on the wow forum (not saying you are or having a go at you) I tried it didn't like the style or the play so I left.

No Dev will be able to keep every person who plays the game happy. Maybe the game just isn't for you? Much in the same way that wow, Lord of the rings online and many other games weren't what I was looking for. Ultimately however, they are happy with their game and there are people playing who also are happy. They can't chop and change things every time some complaints about a system or method etc goes up, the game would be a mess. DCUO catered a lot to players demands and it has ended up being more complained about than ever. Nerfs all over the place, then bugs to rebalanced, change the combat system and now it's 'boring', certain powers that were complained about for months for being bad are 'op', end game is boring, gear and loot system is bad etc etc these complaints will ALWAYS litter a game like this unfortunately.

Alp2760

I'd also add that as console players, we are used to 'completing' games and moving on. The hope would be for a game as this that it is around and active years down the line. You aren't supposed to 'finish' it, it is supposed to take forever to get to the end of the latest content so that (hopefully) by the time new content drops, you are ready for it or on your way to being ready to reach it. Vr doesn't sound any different to it taking 3 months to go from say, T1 to t3 and still needing to get up to T5. It's just their spin on the grind

Jimbob6

Zevris wrote: »

The only type of grind that should ever exist in an mmorpg is gear, reputations, professions etc but not lvling.

You have it exactly backwards. The only kind of grinding that should ever be in an mmorpg is leveling. I hate gear grinds. One of the things I hated about Neverwinter and many other newer MMORPGs is that it takes like 2 days to get to max level and then it's just a gear grind and the hope that RNG is on your side.

I miss the good older MMORPGs like EQ. I remember once hitting like level 40 in EQ it could easily take a week or more to gain a level.

I know that VRs will be taken out at some point, but I wish they wouldn't. Either that or just do away with the level cap altogether and let people just keep grinding levels if they want to.

Jimbob6

Pman85 wrote: »

I have played many MMOs, including true grind feast of the beat that is games from Korea...

with that said, this grind is not bad at all.

MMOs are games that are ment to be played over the course of years. This isnt a FPS game where you join a lobby and unlock something within 10 min.

It may seem daunting now, but when there is a true grind (not so much in this case) then one must remember these two things

1. The longer it is, the more epic your accomplishment will be
2. The playing of the game should be the fun part, we all remember what is it like to play a game just for the fun of it. Sadly some people tend to forget!

This.

I don't mind people not liking MMORPGs because their grindy. But I fear for the genre due to the number of newer "fans" who are trying to do away with one of the defining elements of this genre, and as a result destroying it by turning it into just another Call of Duty.

It would be like if I hated sports, but claimed to be a fan of football, then criticized the game for being cliché by throwing a ball around like so many other sports. Why not just sit down and take turns making moves like chess? Well, there is already a game like that. It's called chess. And if enough "fans" of football started calling for football to be more like chess, I'm sure there would be many rightfully pissed off REAL football fans if the sport actually turned into chess.

Huckdabuck

MCMancub wrote: »

Even if you ignore what you're doing, there's still a structure that exists. There are clearly defined goals with beginning and end points. Even if you are AFK questing while watching Netflix, it isn't grinding. There's a central purpose to what you're doing. Much in the same way that driving around my block over and over isn't the same as me spacing out as I drive 10 miles to work every day.

Defined Goal and Personal Central Purpose for playing ESO - Hit VR14 to do the highest level PvP and PvE in game.

Beginning point - Level 1
Ending point - Vet 14

Actions to be taken - Must get the XP needed via dungeons, dolmens, quests, mobs. points of interest.

Side bar - I'm not a story driven person and just play games for the fun to be had at the end destination and NOT the journey....I just want to zap, shoot, whip, bludgeon, blah blah blah, kill all the low level stuff and complete the quests/zones so I can get to the highest level to zap, shoot, whip, bludgeon, blah blah blah the highest level stuff with my guildies.

Discovery - Since I don't give a flip about any of the content prior to "end game" it becomes a GRIND for people like me to get to our defined goal and personal central purpose for playing ESO. Just my $.02 and another perspective on what constitutes grinding.

MCMancub

Huckdabuck wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Even if you ignore what you're doing, there's still a structure that exists. There are clearly defined goals with beginning and end points. Even if you are AFK questing while watching Netflix, it isn't grinding. There's a central purpose to what you're doing. Much in the same way that driving around my block over and over isn't the same as me spacing out as I drive 10 miles to work every day.

Defined Goal and Personal Central Purpose for playing ESO - Hit VR14 to do the highest level PvP and PvE in game.

Beginning point - Level 1
Ending point - Vet 14

Actions to be taken - Must get the XP needed via dungeons, dolmens, quests, mobs. points of interest.

Side bar - I'm not a story driven person and just play games for the fun to be had at the end destination and NOT the journey....I just want to zap, shoot, whip, bludgeon, blah blah blah, kill all the low level stuff and complete the quests/zones so I can get to the highest level to zap, shoot, whip, bludgeon, blah blah blah the highest level stuff with my guildies.

Discovery - Since I don't give a flip about any of the content prior to "end game" it becomes a GRIND for people like me to get to our defined goal and personal central purpose for playing ESO. Just my $.02 and another perspective on what constitutes grinding.

Except you're clearly not a Veteran Ranked player or you'd know this isn't true. You can start "the highest level PvP" at any point, and in all situations except 1vX are perfectly viable starting at VR1. You can also start Craglorn at VR1 given a good group. Even without a good group, Craglorn starts at VR11. Vet dungeons start at VR1, Trials start at VR10, and Vet DSA starts at VR12. There is literally no content in this game that can't be done successfully before VR14.

EDIT: It's totally fine if you want to wait until you are VR14 to start doing the end game content, but ZOS has designed the Veteran System so that players can begin to access it as early as VR1.

yodased

Huckdabuck wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

Even if you ignore what you're doing, there's still a structure that exists. There are clearly defined goals with beginning and end points. Even if you are AFK questing while watching Netflix, it isn't grinding. There's a central purpose to what you're doing. Much in the same way that driving around my block over and over isn't the same as me spacing out as I drive 10 miles to work every day.

Defined Goal and Personal Central Purpose for playing ESO - Hit VR14 to do the highest level PvP and PvE in game.

Beginning point - Level 1
Ending point - Vet 14

Actions to be taken - Must get the XP needed via dungeons, dolmens, quests, mobs. points of interest.

Side bar - I'm not a story driven person and just play games for the fun to be had at the end destination and NOT the journey....I just want to zap, shoot, whip, bludgeon, blah blah blah, kill all the low level stuff and complete the quests/zones so I can get to the highest level to zap, shoot, whip, bludgeon, blah blah blah the highest level stuff with my guildies.

Discovery - Since I don't give a flip about any of the content prior to "end game" it becomes a GRIND for people like me to get to our defined goal and personal central purpose for playing ESO. Just my $.02 and another perspective on what constitutes grinding.

Replace {grind} with {boring} or {something I don't want to do} and I think its easier to understand for most people.

So the statement becomes

Discovery - Since I don't give a flip about any of the content prior to "end game" it becomes [boring] for people like me to get to our defined goal and personal central purpose for playing ESO. Just my $.02 and another perspective on what constitutes{ something i don't want to do.}

The point is the accepted term is throwing people off, regardless of the meaning. You feel that there is an obstacle in your way of the potential entertainment of the game. That being quests you do not enjoy nor want to do.

Baconlad

I'm in the house that enjoys the vet ranks....but would love to see changes, they should not give you ANY attribute points or given increases with each level, they should NOT be a gear gate, they should only offer skill points, maybe more unique titles, and costumes, pets...maybe a gate for certain quests...i don't know. It needs to be truly horizontal, which is how they marketed vr levels. But now they are simply trying to make them regular levels that take a STUPID amount of time to level through questing. In order to play endgame content or even begin to gear up for endgame you have to be v14, there's no way around it. They could have saved SO many resources by just making level 50 the true top level, and stripping v10 gear down to level 50 a YEAR ago...instead they drug along this grind and are regretting it.

MCMancub

The problem is that people have this concept that is so medieval when it comes to MMOs now-a-days where they think they have to be the max level to take part in the most enjoyable content in the game. That's absolutely not the case.

I've heard of VR4's doing Trials and I've personally witnessed a VR1 lay the smack down on a VR14 1v1 in PvP. This game is way more about skill and knowing what you're doing than about stats and gear. Having those additional CPs and better gear certainly makes you stronger, but it is in no way a prerequisite to enjoying the game or being good at it.

Zevris

So from what I've seen so far that has really caught my attention is that you should only be doing cadwells quests and not side quests? I spent around an hour doing sidequests to see my xp go up about a millimeter if that.

Alphashado

MCMancub wrote: »

The problem is that people have this concept that is so medieval when it comes to MMOs now-a-days where they think they have to be the max level to take part in the most enjoyable content in the game. That's absolutely not the case.

I've heard of VR4's doing Trials and I've personally witnessed a VR1 lay the smack down on a VR14 1v1 in PvP. This game is way more about skill and knowing what you're doing than about stats and gear. Having those additional CPs and better gear certainly makes you stronger, but it is in no way a prerequisite to enjoying the game or being good at it.

Just because it's possible doesn't make it a good idea.

You may be fortunate enough to be in a guild that allows you to participate in Trials and DSA etc as a lower ranked Vet player, but most aren't.

And for every V14 that V1 player kills in Cyrodiil, 20 will stomp his face in. There is a huge difference in stats between a V1 player and a V14 player. Especially considering gear.

So just because it's possible to do all this stuff w/o being V12+, doesn't make smart or competitive. It's also possible to race a Mustang with a Pinto. The pinto driver might even get a lucky break or even occasionally win due to pure skill and lack of skill on the Mustang driver.

But the Mustang is going to win 99% of the time.

Rinmaethodain

If we keep thinking like that, do you also think that just because some people can afford a Mustang, then everyone, every single person should get a Mustang too?

Some people get Mustangs, some people get Pintos. But it does not justify action where everyone who have mustangs will loose them and get pintos, because people with Pintos, for whatever reason they have, cant get a Mustang.

MCMancub

Alphashado wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

The problem is that people have this concept that is so medieval when it comes to MMOs now-a-days where they think they have to be the max level to take part in the most enjoyable content in the game. That's absolutely not the case.

I've heard of VR4's doing Trials and I've personally witnessed a VR1 lay the smack down on a VR14 1v1 in PvP. This game is way more about skill and knowing what you're doing than about stats and gear. Having those additional CPs and better gear certainly makes you stronger, but it is in no way a prerequisite to enjoying the game or being good at it.

Just because it's possible doesn't make it a good idea.

You may be fortunate enough to be in a guild that allows you to participate in Trials and DSA etc as a lower ranked Vet player, but most aren't.

And for every V14 that V1 player kills in Cyrodiil, 20 will stomp his face in. There is a huge difference in stats between a V1 player and a V14 player. Especially considering gear.

So just because it's possible to do all this stuff w/o being V12+, doesn't make smart or competitive. It's also possible to race a Mustang with a Pinto. The pinto driver might even get a lucky break or even occasionally win due to pure skill and lack of skill on the Mustang driver.

But the Mustang is going to win 99% of the time.

I'm not arguing that you don't get stronger as you progress through the system or that you shouldn't. All I'm saying is there is a universal mindset that as soon as you hit VR1 it's "grind to VR14 or quit," and that's just simply not the case.

As for you specific arguments, I see way more guilds looking for players in general to explore content than I do ones who are looking for specifically VR12+ or something like that. For every V14 you kill as a V14 in Cyrodiil, 20 will stomp your face in. How you perform in Cyrodiil is largely skill based and not level/gear/CP based. At a certain level it becomes that, but many players still aren't at that point.

Zusia211

Also this isn't first time for consoles to have something similar to VR. The extra content after main story on Destiny is what people stopped playing it for cause you actually had to work in order to get to the next level.

NewBlacksmurf

MissBizz wrote: »

Many people dislike the VR levelling experience - hence ZOS is planning to remove it.

On the other hand, some (like myself) do enjoy it. I find it enjoyable because I just keep enjoying the quests and carry on, no need to rush. I honestly don't find it different from 1-50 (except that the whole zone is one level, instead of like 12 levels) Although, obviously, everyone is different.

To clarify. Cadwell's quest aren't the larger issue but VR levels are

wally2000

The thing is , why in a game like this that suppose to carry on for years there is a level cap?
I hate level cap
The things that they have to do is upload new stories new content new areas new bosses and mobs
Run all the way to the top and then what?pvp then pvp then pvp etc
With a level cap whats the point to play new content ? U never get better u always will be at the level cap
Thats why i like that this level cap is slow to come , i dont mind of how long it takes
Whats the point to play an immersive game if the only goal is to reach the level cap as fast as possible?
Basically instead of thinking about ......who and why someone want to kill ur king or queen the only thing in ur mind is ......i need to reach the level cap faster let me grind ........
But i understand i can be a bit different from new gen of players , im an old Dungeouns and dragons player on paper in wich the adventure never stop .....

OneBadHuskerFan

Zusia211 wrote: »

Also this isn't first time for consoles to have something similar to VR. The extra content after main story on Destiny is what people stopped playing it for cause you actually had to work in order to get to the next level.

Not true AT ALL. All you needed in Destiny was RNG on your side and you could level up quickly as leveling in Destiny is gear based after you hit level 20. I stopped playing that game because I had friends that leveled up in a matter of days after hitting 20. It took me over a month because I couldn't get the raid level gear to drop for me and you could only play the raid once a week.

Arato

Zevris wrote: »

not impressed, I had so much fun going through the questline and all the different zones and such to get to lvl 50 or vr1. I honestly didn't know what to expect from VR ranks but so far I'm heartbroken, its a wall of pure grinding to make you come back and play but frankly this is not the type of grind that I want. The only type of grind that should ever exist in an mmorpg is gear, reputations, professions etc but not lvling. This is a rant and yes I'm upset but I have no one else to blame other than myself I guess. I just don't have the time to put 8 hours a day grinding to go up a quarter of a lvl. Keep in mind that this is console, there are very few people at the vr ranks yet so there are no vr grind parties and even then there is no fun in this type of grinding. I will be going back to FF XIV for the release of Heavensward but I will return to this when they decide to make a change to the whole VR thing (if that ever happens). Please do not hate on my post, understand that this is my opinion and that I respect everyone's opinion aslong as they aren't ignorant.

Now you understand why this game is floundering. ZOS has said they're going to remove VR's but they just haven't DONE it yet.

There's a small minority of players who defend VR's to the end of the earth though.

Arato

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Grinding? What grinding? Untill i reacher VR12

NEVER GRINDED in ESO

Just make sure you complete all quests in every zone. Caldwell gold and silver. Sidequests.

They give TON of exp and lot of cash, items for decon or vendoring.

It makes me laugh when people hit VR1 and start crying that they have to grind but they didnt expierence even 1/3 of whole game.

I love veteran rank lvls. I can finally make good gear without being afrad that in one minute ill outlevel it again.

Once you hit VR10 or 11ish you run out of quests though and just have to repeat the same quests in Cyrodiil or Craglorn on a daily basis for the last few ranks. That IS grinding, and it's poor design and planning.

MissBizz

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I love veteran rank lvls. I can finally make good gear without being afrad that in one minute ill outlevel it again.

Not going to lie, this^ is awesome to me as well. On my third character, at VR1 (sorry to those who I attempted that vet dungeon with at the time) and still had level 38 green gear! Hah. You see, I was just sick of crafting gear one day after the other due to outleveling it.. so I just stopped. Was so glad when I hit VR1 and knew I wouldn't need to make new at the end of the weekend.

As well, a topic that has been touched on - alts. Yes, I DO enjoy Caldwell Gold/Silver (the vet ranks), BUT... yeah, on my alts, I must say I'm not as excited about it. During my alts it will be (as they are both sitting at VR2 right now) more about learning the new class, weapons, and dungeon roles - opposed to it being all about the immersion and story. I still like the vet ranks, why? Because at level 50 - I haven't levelled up all the skills I want for dungeons, I haven't mastered my class (heavily due to the ease of 1-50, sure VR isn't any harder, but at least it gives more time).

MissBizz

Arato wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Grinding? What grinding? Untill i reacher VR12

NEVER GRINDED in ESO

Just make sure you complete all quests in every zone. Caldwell gold and silver. Sidequests.

They give TON of exp and lot of cash, items for decon or vendoring.

It makes me laugh when people hit VR1 and start crying that they have to grind but they didnt expierence even 1/3 of whole game.

I love veteran rank lvls. I can finally make good gear without being afrad that in one minute ill outlevel it again.

Once you hit VR10 or 11ish you run out of quests though and just have to repeat the same quests in Cyrodiil or Craglorn on a daily basis for the last few ranks. That IS grinding, and it's poor design and planning.

This heavily depends on how you play. As I enjoy the VR content, I play through all of the zones, not rushing through it, as well break up my time by doing group activities such as guild events and dungeons (mostly veteran). I am sitting at VR12 in a VR8 zone. I have absolutely no doubts I will be VR14 before I hit Craglorn.

Arato wrote: »

There's a small minority of players who defend VR's to the end of the earth though.

Hmm.. well, I do defend them in a way that states I enjoy them, although I can also see the other side and understand why (I would say the majority) players do not like them. Really, get rid of them. I'd be a bit saddened as I love the idea of level progression, but it wouldn't kill me. Leave Caldwell's as optional and boom - everyone should be happy. (Won't be, as it is completely impossible to make everyone happy, but hey, in my opinion I think it would make the majority of players happy)

Shaloran

I actually find getting levels on this game a bit easier than other MMOs.
The problem is, it just doesn't FEEL easier.

The questing is actually really redundant. Go here, kill whoever is taking it over, unlock the area, disrupt the ritual, do anchors/bosses, disrupt the ritual, do group dungeon, Did I mention disrupt the ritual? After a bit of doing this, you gain a level. In other mmos I've played, you keep on fighting monsters in groups to grind xp. They really aren't that much different, and I like that I can do the questing without lfg.

Now, removing the time and effort getting the levels is NEVER going to change. You need that challenge to feel like you've accomplished something, otherwise it isn't special imo.
If only the devs would do something revolutionary to keep the time/effort there, but make it fun and exciting at the same time.

As far as the rest of the end game. I like it personally. I like that I can level with friends in Crag, do trials, PvP in Cyrodil, etc.
I wish you luck though, and respect your opinion. Come back as soon as they fix this mess and maybe add some more content.

Averya_Teira

Alphashado wrote: »

You are the first in an army of many that will grow daily.

Us PC players have been trying to warn ZoS for over a year about the ramifications of their current Vet System. We also tried to warn them not to launch consoles with the current system. We tried to warn them that as soon as console players start to reach V1, there would be a fresh new crowd of unhappy customers.

Their best answer? -- Create a massive XP booster to sell in the Crown Store.

Do a search on "vet ranks" in the forum search bar and you will see how hard and long we have been fighting this battle.

Sadly I do not foresee them changing anything now. Once they realize what a cash cow these Ambrosia potions are going to be, they will have realized how much they can profit from their own mistake because people are going to pay handsomely to get through vet ranks as fast as possible. Especially alternate characters.

I have to admit that I can't help but imagine some executive sitting in an office somewhere rubbing his hands together in anticipation of all the console players about to hit V1.... coincidentally the same time Ambrosia potions hit the Crown Store.

Do we have a date for the new items in the cash shop on consoles ? Because they are certainly not being sold right now.

Not much use if it has to pass whatever test from Microsoft/Sony and get released in three months lol