Console player experience's VR ranks for first time!

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Grundiin wrote: »

VR leveling is hard, and it takes time to get through. BUT a game isn't made so everyone can rush through the whole game in a couple of weeks.

So why did they do exactly that with the Pre-Vet levels?

MMORPG designers need to go read Hemmingway: "It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."

There's way too much focus on making End-Game not feel like a static grind even though we all KNOW it is; and far too little emphasis on the process of getting to end game.

Basically it is a problem of cheap, and lazy game design.

All The Best

symonator

I'm with you OP.
It's not to great, i find it a bit of a choar - like 20 levels of xp for a quarter of a bar lol!!

Drazhar14

ZOS made a huge mistake by not having the vet ranks removed for console release. They are planning on doing that soon though (if they stick to their plans/promise, which doesn't mean much).

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Zevris wrote: »

not impressed, I had so much fun going through the questline and all the different zones and such to get to lvl 50 or vr1. I honestly didn't know what to expect from VR ranks but so far I'm heartbroken, its a wall of pure grinding to make you come back and play but frankly this is not the type of grind that I want. The only type of grind that should ever exist in an mmorpg is gear, reputations, professions etc but not lvling. This is a rant and yes I'm upset but I have no one else to blame other than myself I guess. I just don't have the time to put 8 hours a day grinding to go up a quarter of a lvl. Keep in mind that this is console, there are very few people at the vr ranks yet so there are no vr grind parties and even then there is no fun in this type of grinding. I will be going back to FF XIV for the release of Heavensward but I will return to this when they decide to make a change to the whole VR thing (if that ever happens). Please do not hate on my post, understand that this is my opinion and that I respect everyone's opinion aslong as they aren't ignorant.

eviltims wrote: »

I'm not at end game yet, but have been reading on it, and it seems the end game content is not what I expect I guess. Since I stop playing FF XIV I thought something like this would be fun for a long time, but probably not. Told myself to stop comparing it to FF XIV but I can't sadly.

This is what happens when the LOUDEST of the LOUD scream about VR content.

I like it. I know plenty of other people that do too.

Not saying I'm right or wrong. But stop listening to folks and maybe make your own decision.

I also smell a couple trolls in this thread.

Pman85

I have played many MMOs, including true grind feast of the beat that is games from Korea...

with that said, this grind is not bad at all.

MMOs are games that are ment to be played over the course of years. This isnt a FPS game where you join a lobby and unlock something within 10 min.

It may seem daunting now, but when there is a true grind (not so much in this case) then one must remember these two things

1. The longer it is, the more epic your accomplishment will be
2. The playing of the game should be the fun part, we all remember what is it like to play a game just for the fun of it. Sadly some people tend to forget!

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Muizer wrote: »

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Wait a minute.....

You say you hate the VR leveling experience but it is more storyline and questing. So you are saying you would rather have the silly daily reputation and gear loop grind instead.

People always complain about the MMO end game systems and cry for more content. ESO has more story and questing yet people complain about that. You just can't win.


Le sigh........

Yeah, that seems a bit incongruous. Content wise, the veteran Silver and Gold zones are not much different from 1-50. So, I guess the complaint isn't about the content at all, just about the reward system.

You want the carrot on a stick treadmill. Lots of games like that out there.

Seasonal gear will be coming here as well. It's been mentioned anyway. So I would expect it Soon (tm)

Luffy

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I guess I am just confused. Granted I spent my first couple VR levels in Cyrodiil, I blew through the rest of my VR ranks just doing the Cadwell's gold quests. I am a true anti-grinder. I absolutely hate it. But i don't remember the VR levels being a horrid grind for me.

I'm currently at VR4 on my main.

I agree Vet is not a "horrid grind", but it is a huge grind in comparison to the process of levelling to 50.

You go from seeing significant progress towards next level every time you hand in a quest to seeing minimal progress towards next Vet Level every time you complete a major quest chain.

If I was levelling even 25% as fast at Vet as I was pre-Vet I would be reasonably happy; but its actually more like 5% - 10%.

And I think that is a major part of the problem.

All The Best

Wait until you get V14 and decide to level an alt, then tell us how it is not an "horrid grind".

cheyenne822

There is plenty of easy leveling, nothing but endgame mmos out there already. Quit trying to make another one.
Never hear anyone complain about a single player game taking too long, so why do they do it on online games?

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Luffy wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I guess I am just confused. Granted I spent my first couple VR levels in Cyrodiil, I blew through the rest of my VR ranks just doing the Cadwell's gold quests. I am a true anti-grinder. I absolutely hate it. But i don't remember the VR levels being a horrid grind for me.

I'm currently at VR4 on my main.

I agree Vet is not a "horrid grind", but it is a huge grind in comparison to the process of levelling to 50.

You go from seeing significant progress towards next level every time you hand in a quest to seeing minimal progress towards next Vet Level every time you complete a major quest chain.

If I was levelling even 25% as fast at Vet as I was pre-Vet I would be reasonably happy; but its actually more like 5% - 10%.

And I think that is a major part of the problem.

All The Best

Wait until you get V14 and decide to level an alt, then tell us how it is not an "horrid grind".

I'm on my 4th vet toon and it's still not a horrid grind.

Heromofo

Zevris wrote: »

not impressed, I had so much fun going through the questline and all the different zones and such to get to lvl 50 or vr1. I honestly didn't know what to expect from VR ranks but so far I'm heartbroken, its a wall of pure grinding to make you come back and play but frankly this is not the type of grind that I want. The only type of grind that should ever exist in an mmorpg is gear, reputations, professions etc but not lvling. This is a rant and yes I'm upset but I have no one else to blame other than myself I guess. I just don't have the time to put 8 hours a day grinding to go up a quarter of a lvl. Keep in mind that this is console, there are very few people at the vr ranks yet so there are no vr grind parties and even then there is no fun in this type of grinding. I will be going back to FF XIV for the release of Heavensward but I will return to this when they decide to make a change to the whole VR thing (if that ever happens). Please do not hate on my post, understand that this is my opinion and that I respect everyone's opinion aslong as they aren't ignorant.

Amen Brother but you should know that they said VR level removal is comming the problem with this is that their idea of time is insane lol. For now i believe they are going to decrease the amount needed per level no idea what's going on because champion points were meant to be phase 2 and shortly after phase 3 veteran rank removal was meant to come in.


Always thought this would happen before console but ahh well.

Ps: Wait till you try to make an alt lol

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Luffy wrote: »

Wait until you get V14 and decide to level an alt, then tell us how it is not an "horrid grind".

Already got 2 Alts at or about to be at VR1.

There's nothing here so far that is even remotely akin to the type of grind you see in things like Silk Road Online. I once had to kill over 400 Devil-Bugs just to collect 20 wings, the drop rate was deliberately kept so low as to be soul-crushing. Then if you died look forward to losing 20% of a level's worth of XP, and if that dropped you a level and you had already traded out your gear for level upgrades then look forward to grinding out that lost XP naked, with your fists. Oh and don't even get me started on the grind-fest that was the Tri-Conflict Trade system (still it was marginally better than ESO's trade system).

All The Best

coryevans_3b14_ESO

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Luffy wrote: »

Wait until you get V14 and decide to level an alt, then tell us how it is not an "horrid grind".

Already got 2 Alts at or about to be at VR1.

There's nothing here so far that is even remotely akin to the type of grind you see in things like Silk Road Online. I once had to kill over 400 Devil-Bugs just to collect 20 wings, the drop rate was deliberately kept so low as to be soul-crushing. Then if you died look forward to losing 20% of a level's worth of XP, and if that dropped you a level and you had already traded out your gear for level upgrades then look forward to grinding out that lost XP naked, with your fists. Oh and don't even get me started on the grind-fest that was the Tri-Conflict Trade system (still it was marginally better than ESO's trade system).

All The Best

Said it much better than I did.

smokes

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Already got 2 Alts at or about to be at VR1

i love how you guys compare ESO to Korean grind mmo's and think thats a good thing

there's a reason why Korean mmo's are mostly played by koreans and not a large percentage of the western world.
you have to tailor your content to your market and i'm pretty sure that ESO are trying to entertain the western market and not the eastern market.

did the mass abandonment from ESO when players started reaching vet levels not indicate anything to you guys?

because it did to zenimax, which is why they are getting rid of the VR ranks. if you love grinds, thats your perogative, but you need to appreciate you aren't the in minority, otherwise korean grind mmo's would've done a lot better in the western market.

i honestly fear for the future of ESO if zenimax don't have it sorted by the time the majority of the casual console gamers hit vet ranks, we've already gone from sub based to B2P, ESO is struggling to keep it's head above water and the reason why can be squarley placed on the vet levelling system.

VincentBlanquin

few days some folks here post threads like how is game great and they dont understand why some players are upset. bad planning from zeni that will cost them alot.

btw, you can skip that silver and gold and jump into cyrodiil. there are 5 cities with repeatable quests every day. you can get half vet rank every day, its solid. i already do it that way from vr1 to vr14

Frenkthevile

ESO is not a grind, it's questing. FF14 is events grind. Archeage is trade grind. Korean mmos are mobs grind.
Cannot be a grind something that you do ONCE, then move on.

smokes

Frenkthevile wrote: »

ESO is not a grind, it's questing. FF14 is events grind. Archeage is trade grind. Korean mmos are mobs grind.
Cannot be a grind something that you do ONCE, then move on.

ah but then to some people, ESO is all about ignoring the quests and mob grinding to VR14, then daily to get as many CP as possible so they can dominate in pvp.

it's not a healthy playstyle but when people hit VR1, see the mountain in front of them and soil their pants, this is what happens. desperate people will do desprate things in order to be competitive.

yodased

Luffy wrote: »

Wait until you get V14 and decide to level an alt, then tell us how it is not an "horrid grind".

The point being your idea of what it should be isn't any more correct or wrong than the next person's, but you sure are presenting it that way.

There are thousands upon thousands of people who actually enjoy the veteran system, they like the fact that there is hundreds of hours of content that a person can do without having to resort to PvP or to "end game raids".

This game is much more friendly to the casual gamer, to the gamer that enjoys a slower pace and likes to quest and craft and read and listen and create.

Unfortunately, this leaves the "hardcore" gamers with a bad taste in their mouth because to them games are competitions where one has to get to the end as fast as possible and be able to "win" the most effective way possible.

ESO Specifically removes all ways to circumvent their leveling process. IF a way is found to get you to the cap faster than intended, they simply delete it from the game. This should tell you all you need to know about the philosophy of the game.

You may not like it, it may not be the game for you, but it's not inherently wrong , it's just not for you. There are many, many games that would be better suited for someone who enjoys getting to the "end game" cap and a more competitive nature, that a lot of the ESO fans would not enjoy, in my opinion.

MissBizz

yodased wrote: »

Luffy wrote: »

Wait until you get V14 and decide to level an alt, then tell us how it is not an "horrid grind".

The point being your idea of what it should be isn't any more correct or wrong than the next person's, but you sure are presenting it that way.

There are thousands upon thousands of people who actually enjoy the veteran system, they like the fact that there is hundreds of hours of content that a person can do without having to resort to PvP or to "end game raids".

This game is much more friendly to the casual gamer, to the gamer that enjoys a slower pace and likes to quest and craft and read and listen and create.

Unfortunately, this leaves the "hardcore" gamers with a bad taste in their mouth because to them games are competitions where one has to get to the end as fast as possible and be able to "win" the most effective way possible.

ESO Specifically removes all ways to circumvent their leveling process. IF a way is found to get you to the cap faster than intended, they simply delete it from the game. This should tell you all you need to know about the philosophy of the game.

You may not like it, it may not be the game for you, but it's not inherently wrong , it's just not for you. There are many, many games that would be better suited for someone who enjoys getting to the "end game" cap and a more competitive nature, that a lot of the ESO fans would not enjoy, in my opinion.

*applauds* Agreed.

I am one of the players that actually enjoys going through the quests in my VR zones. Does everyone? Nope. To be honest, since ZOS is planning on removing the VR levels, I'd say it's safe to say I'm a minority.

Although.. I don't oppose them removing VR levels. As long as it's left there for optional content, I'm happy.

And hey guys, there are XP boosts now, take a sip of one of those when they're a bit more readily available and you'll last.

Alphashado

I'm not sure why people keep saying there isn't any endgame content.

V14 PvP
V12+ vet dungeons and pledges - 4 man
Dragonstar Arena - 4 man
Vet Dragonstar Arena - 4 man
Aetherian Archive - Trial - 12 man
Hel Ra Citadel - Trial - 12 man
Sanctum Ophidia - Trial - 12 man

All of that is competitive endgame content with unique gear rewards. I'm not sure what else you need to qualify?


Normal Veteran Zone content is NOT endgame content. It is single player quest/exploration content that you must progress through in order to be competitive at the (above listed) REAL endgame content.

So in order to partake in any of the above mentioned activities while wearing competitive gear and having competitive stats, you have to trudge through 13 long, tedious veteran ranks either by questing or grinding.

And to make matters worse, even if you do complete Cadwell's Silver/Gold, the only PvE content left is Craglorn, and it's forced group content that has had it's XP nerfed into Oblivion.

Even IF you don't mind killing people from your own faction. Even IF you don't mind playing generic-rehashed mirror image content. Even IF you enjoyed this stuff the first time through..... It is extremely tedious when you are interested in playing different classes in true endgame content (listed above) and you must trudge through this stuff again on your alts.

Vet Ranks were created by a rookie MMO developer that "thought" they were creating endgame content. They have since acknowledged their mistake. Problem is they don't know how to fix it.

They do know how to profit from their mistake though:

Jultzy

MissBizz wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Luffy wrote: »

Wait until you get V14 and decide to level an alt, then tell us how it is not an "horrid grind".

The point being your idea of what it should be isn't any more correct or wrong than the next person's, but you sure are presenting it that way.

There are thousands upon thousands of people who actually enjoy the veteran system, they like the fact that there is hundreds of hours of content that a person can do without having to resort to PvP or to "end game raids".

This game is much more friendly to the casual gamer, to the gamer that enjoys a slower pace and likes to quest and craft and read and listen and create.

Unfortunately, this leaves the "hardcore" gamers with a bad taste in their mouth because to them games are competitions where one has to get to the end as fast as possible and be able to "win" the most effective way possible.

ESO Specifically removes all ways to circumvent their leveling process. IF a way is found to get you to the cap faster than intended, they simply delete it from the game. This should tell you all you need to know about the philosophy of the game.

You may not like it, it may not be the game for you, but it's not inherently wrong , it's just not for you. There are many, many games that would be better suited for someone who enjoys getting to the "end game" cap and a more competitive nature, that a lot of the ESO fans would not enjoy, in my opinion.

*applauds* Agreed.

I am one of the players that actually enjoys going through the quests in my VR zones. Does everyone? Nope. To be honest, since ZOS is planning on removing the VR levels, I'd say it's safe to say I'm a minority.

Although.. I don't oppose them removing VR levels. As long as it's left there for optional content, I'm happy.

And hey guys, there are XP boosts now, take a sip of one of those when they're a bit more readily available and you'll last.

"Although.. I don't oppose them removing VR levels. As long as it's left there for optional content, I'm happy." <-- This could be a good thing.

A lot of people wants to reach the end game (including me) since thats where the game begins in some sort of way. The first character is always special. Everything is new and all which makes the questing a blast. But making alts is a different story, you've done the quests already, you've done the whole grind. By then all you may want is to reach the end game with another character to enhance your end game with different ways of experience it (combat wise etc).

The end game is suppose to be about progression in one or another way. Gearing, completing dungeons, trials, pvp, etc and maybe a good thing to do with the veteran ranks could be just to let them reward you with that skill point, that attribute point that you get for reaching another one. But something that might have been good is to remove the veteran level of the gear. Make trails veteran rank scaled (different ladder for different veteran rank). Meaning VR14 may be eso:s difficult version of wow:s mythic. Make VR14 players able to clear VR1 trails since all gear are at VR1. Thats just an idea and probobly very flawed

Another thing I personally don't like with the veteran content is the "quest in a different faction" to kind of being another faction. Reading the recruit letters from the faction leader it just doesn't make sense to me. The whole play any race any faction doesn't make any sense to me either but the veteran leveling areas makes that thing make sense. Just that the veteran leveling area does not make sense to me.

Hexyl

yodased wrote: »

This game is much more friendly to the casual gamer, to the gamer that enjoys a slower pace and likes to quest and craft and read and listen and create.

Yeah, i'm agree and i love how the game is made for this. But there isnt enought quest line or thing to do.. you hit VR8-10, and... go pvp or looking for dungeons you already know or grind.

Without that, the time needed is not a prob. Endless CP sytem and lack of content is. IMO.

Pallmor

A lot of people don't like VR leveling, but I don't think there is much that ZOS could do about it. ESO offers the most diverse endgame of any MMO I've ever played (though I haven't played very many). You can continue doing interesting single-player quests (silver and gold). You can group up and go to Craglorn. You can do PvP in Cyrodil. You can do daily crafting/undaunted writs. Or you can just grind.

Not sure what more they can do except offer periodic expansions. But expansions can never hope to keep up with players, not even in WoW. So inevitably you're going to hit the same wall you would hit in any MMO.

As for how hard it is to get to VR14, well that's by design. It SHOULD be hard to reach the top. I've been playing almost since the beginning and even I'm not there yet (though I'm pretty casual).

Aneima

Most recent news regarding vet levels amongst other stuff.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/39hegg/news_zos_had_a_console_aua_today_here_are_the/

smokes

yodased wrote: »

There are thousands upon thousands of people who actually enjoy the veteran system, they like the fact that there is hundreds of hours of content that a person can do without having to resort to PvP or to "end game raids".

for starters, lets separate out the argument

the veteran rank system != vet quest content.

the veteran ranking system is the arbritrary numbering system which indicates a players power.
the vet quest content is the questing stuff regarding the other 2 factions you didn't choose.

personally, i'd love to be able to pvp, raid and quest in the other factions content as the mood takes me once hitting level 50. instead, i'm forced to quest until my eyes bleed before i can raid or pvp competitively. thats the problem here.

the other 2 factions content (cadwells S+G) should've been "side" content for the additional lore, skyshards, skillpoints, money and loot, not for experience to reach level cap, which is what turns so many people off. due to the way internal processes between XP and questing are handled server side, XP had to be given to cadwells S+G, whereas in beta, players finished their factions storyline and then pvp'd. craglorn was supposed to be the first vet levelling zone, but as the beta community wanted the additional faction quests made available (as it's all unique content), to implement them for launch, VR ranks were added to them - which then caused the problems we see today.

there's plenty of people out there not adverse to a bit of a grind, but ESO took it to a whole new level. i quit 3 times during the EP storyline, i was bored to death of questing, but at VR1-5 there was no point in me joining pvp and trials were still a long ways out of reach. so i had to continue questing.

if it wasn't for the craglorn patch and the anomalie grind, i doubt i would've come back. because there was also other hurdles to jump, such as the vet overworld mobs being tuned to ridiculous levels, so much so that i couldn't kill a pack of 3 mobs. i felt forced to grind the anomalies up to vet 10 - not only did they drop a lot of loot, but they gave lots of xp too, i was getting a VR level every 20 mins.

then, once i was VR10 in a VR2 zone, i could just about kill the mobs again without getting constantly ganked by bad tuning. but still, the storyline bored me to tears. so i gave up and only came back when it went B2P as i no longer had to pay a subscription in order to wait for the VR removal.

which was an utter shame, as i thoroughly enjoyed levelling 1-50, but as soon as i hit VR1, my level of enjoyment nosedived significantly. especially as i waded into cyrodiil and found VR10 players that had either botted, grinded or exploited their way there within a day of launch. rollbacks by GM's would've helped, but this is where zenimax's immaturity as an mmo gaming company shone through as they failed to act in time and subs plummeted.

honestly, i can't wait to hit VR14 just so i can finally craft some yellow gear and be done with the entire levelling grind. i'll be happy just poking around, finishing off whatever quests i need to do, pickpocketing, pvp'ing, running some trials or dungeons and stuff. but it's going to be such an anticlimax the moment that XP bar ticks over, it's not even going to be a relief that it's finally over, as i know there'll be a 200 CP difference between me and some of my opponents in pvp which is a difference that i'll never be able to close the gap on.

the game has certainly moved on since my initial experiences with VR content, but there's still plenty to be done before i would say it's in a good place.

Valije

There is one thing I find funny in all threads of this kind:

Some people call doing quest "grinding" and their method of leveling is pepetitively killing mobs in certain areas... wich they see as not grinding.

:puzzled:

smokes

Valije wrote: »

There is one thing I find funny in all threads of this kind:

Some people call doing quest "grinding" and their method of leveling is pepetitively killing mobs in certain areas... wich they see as not grinding.

:puzzled:

you can grind quests by skipping all the quest text, following the map markers, killing everything in sight until the quest pops up as complete, then moving onto the next quest.

you can mob grind by mindlessly killing mobs with high respawn rates over and over again

both can be referred to as grinding

Alphashado

Aneima wrote: »

Most recent news regarding vet levels amongst other stuff.

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/39hegg/news_zos_had_a_console_aua_today_here_are_the/

Thank you for that link. I found this to be interesting and relevant to this discussion:

""In terms of XP, we're actually buffing for some areas in the next major update. Specifically public dungeons and craglorn are being increased. Additionally we're increasing the XP that veteran level quests give so there's more of a parity between gains between questers and grinders. Lastly we're reducing the amount of XP required to get a veteran rank so players can get to the max level content sooner.""


So that is good news and will help some with the pain of taking alts through vet ranks. At least they "get it" now.

Rune_Relic

OPTION 1.
1-50 > Vet 1-5 with cadwells silver > Vet 6-10 with Cadwells gold > Vet11-14 in craglorn > Vet campaing PVP

OPTION 2.
1-50 & Blackwater Blade non-vet campaign > new character in new faction

Given most hate the concept of doing cadwells silver and gold.
Many love the 1-50 experience.
I don't think I have heard anyone hate on blackwater blade non-vet PVP...
...I think option 2 will probably give you the best experience.

OPTION 3.
How it should have been...
1-50 > Cyrdoiil PVP or Craglorn or New DLC (Gaining more skyshards + new skills at 50)
You want to experience a different faction 1-50.... create an ALT.

People always had the option of rolling a new character to experience a different faction.
There was no reason to make it compulsory and tack on a veteran levelling system.

MCMancub

smokes wrote: »

Valije wrote: »

There is one thing I find funny in all threads of this kind:

Some people call doing quest "grinding" and their method of leveling is pepetitively killing mobs in certain areas... wich they see as not grinding.

:puzzled:

you can grind quests by skipping all the quest text, following the map markers, killing everything in sight until the quest pops up as complete, then moving onto the next quest.

you can mob grind by mindlessly killing mobs with high respawn rates over and over again

both can be referred to as grinding

No, they can't both be referred to as grinding. Grinding is doing the same thing over and over again. A non-daily quest is not a grind. You do it once and move on. Just because there's a lot of individual quests doesn't make it a grind. It just means there's a lot of content to do. There's a clear beginning and ending point.

Anyways, I just hit VR12 yesterday and have about 250 hours on my character. There have been times when I've gotten bored of the questing and done PvP or Undaunted Pledges, but looking back, I am so glad I didn't hit the max level in 100 hours and then spend the next 150 hours doing the same content over and over again. I can legitimately say that I've really enjoyed the 250 hours I've put into this game.

About 3 months ago I stopped playing League of Legends. Wanna know why? Because I realized I had spent 1250 hours doing the exact same thing. Over. And over. And over. In the thousands of games I played, sure, there was some variation, but I now see it as largely wasted time because it was all the same, really.

I love that ESO doesn't have that. I've had the pleasure of enjoying each and every story, environment, and interaction. I've still got lots ahead of me, too. There's this massive zone called Cyrodiil that features an entirely different playstyle than I've already experienced. There's this other zone called Craglorn that offers challenging content that requires group cooperation to conquer. There's Champion Points that allow me to continue to progress for months and years to come. There's gear that allows my character to become even more badass than I already see him. And then there's future content coming in the next few months.

Just enjoy the game and you won't regret it. Rush to the end and you will.

smokes

MCMancub wrote: »

No, they can't both be referred to as grinding.

if you're not reading/listening/paying any attention to the quest text/storyline and are literally just going from objective to objective killing things along the way, that is grinding. no 2 ways about it.

over the course of 1000 quests, each may tell a different story, but if you dont pay any attention to the story you'll go from mob kill quests > talk to people quests > collect object quests > kill named mob quests > kill deadra > kill undead > kill beasts > click on item.

eventually it turns into grinding.

the story blurs the edges and tranforms it but if you're not paying any attention to the story and are busting through 20 quests an hour, it's grinding.