Immersive Crown Store: Player Response to ESO Live Answer

Gidorick

A huge thanks to @ZOS_JessicaFolsom & @ZOS_GinaBruno For answering my question on ESO Live this past week. For those of you who haven't caught the episode, you can watch it here: ESO LIVE 05/22/2015.

The question I had asked was:

Gidorick wrote: »

I would like to be able to buy Crown Store items from special tabs from in-game merchants. I would like to visit the blacksmith to buy a set of armor costumes or visit the stable to buy mounts. It would add a bit of immersion and things like mounts could be visually advertised at the stables. Has there been any discussion along these lines?

And the answer received was:

ESO Live wrote:

So, we have actually discussed adding the option to buy Crown Store items outside of the Crown Store itself, although we want to be careful that we're not being too pushy with our Crown Store items. We also want to make sure we're not confusing or misleading which items cost gold and which ones cost crowns, and you end up buying something you did not intend to purchase. So for the time being, Crown Store items will be kept in the Crown Store UI.

This is a very reasonable answer to the request and I completely understand the need to ensure players not be confused when buying Crown Store items. Since this was not given an answer of "never" I hoped I could throw my two cents into the discussion.

By visually representing Crown Store mounts at the stable, and costumes on NPCs around Merchants, I believe more players will be enticed into buying Crown Store items. Seeing the item in game will allow players to visually inspect the item prior to purchase, and can be a great benefit to the Crown Store system.

The easiest of these to use as a demonstration, is the Stable.

If mounts other than Horses (limited or otherwise) were to stand, sit, and generally mull around stables players would be treated to a more dynamic and lively shopping experience. This would draw players passing by into the store and create additional reasons to visit a stable. There's nothing more enticing than something new!

When the player speaks with the Merchant, the merchant would act in the exact same manner it does now, with the exception of players having access to a Crown Store TAB. It is imperative that the Crown Store items be segregated from the Gold Purchase items for the exact reason mentioned, to ensure that players understand that Crown Store items are different from Gold items.

The Crown Store Tab would show how many Crowns the player has left, instead of how much gold they have left. ALL Crown Store items that would be associated with that merchant would be in this tab. So, Crown Store Riding Lessons would be purchasable from this menu as well as Crown Store Mounts, and if my Advanced Tangible Concept is ever implemented, Mount Equipment would be in the same Crown Store tab of the Stable Merchant.

This would create a separate method for displaying Crown Store items by functional category and not item category. Selling Crown Repair Kits next to Armor Costumes may inform some players of the existence of the Crown Store Repair Kits who might of otherwise never known that was an option for them.

Oh, and it's important to note that this would NOT replace the crown store in any way. It would simply be another way to buy the Crown Store items.

One additional method of safeguarding players against mistaken purchases is to have a confirmation prompt when a player tries to purchase a Crown Store item from a Merchant.

Using these methods, I believe that any player that visits the Crown Store section of a merchant, and purchases an item from that tab, will be fully and completely aware that the item they are purchasing is being purchased for Crowns and not Gold. Then ZOS could reap the benefits of having in-game representation of the Crown Store and we could get our immersion boost.

Hopefully the next time this is considered, this player's notes can be included in the discussion. Thanks!

LMar

While it is a good idea and you put a lot of work in it, in my own personal opinion I would rather run through the game without seeing any mention of crowns or stores or things that I need to purchase with RL money. It could possibly lead to a more pervasive store system

Rosveen

LMar wrote: »

While it is a good idea and you put a lot of work in it, in my own personal opinion I would rather run through the game without seeing any mention of crowns or stores or things that I need to purchase with RL money. It could possibly lead to a more pervasive store system

Same here.

MornaBaine

I like this idea a lot. I think it would be great to at least see the new or sale items within the game itself at the shops they can be purchased at. And your system seems as if it would clearly eliminate any confusion between crown and gold purchases.

Gyudan

we want to be careful that we're not being too pushy with our Crown Store items.

This part made me chuckle.

At least displaying the mounts would be great.

cmetzger93

It would be a great way for them to advertise and as for being pushy about it, if people don't want to buy them they don't have to. I think it would be pretty difficult to get confused over in game gold and crowns but your confirmation screen would be a great idea.

Iluvrien

While I do, as usual, like the way that @Gidorick's idea is put together...

Rosveen wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

While it is a good idea and you put a lot of work in it, in my own personal opinion I would rather run through the game without seeing any mention of crowns or stores or things that I need to purchase with RL money. It could possibly lead to a more pervasive store system

Same here.

... ^ This. The crown store is an addition I don't want to a game I rather enjoy. Keeping to their original statement of not integrating or advertising crown store items in-game is important to me, especially in light of how other such statements have been subject to "revision".

I don't want to see it or hear about it unless I specifically choose to do so. I am also worried about the crownstore having an increased reach. It already has its mucky paws into areas where I don't want it to be (motifs, explorers pack) and have no desire whatsoever to see that reach expanded upon.

Faugaun

@Gidorick /two-thumbs-up

As someone who buys (what I consider a fair amount of crown store items) I would love to see this. Just the live preview option alone would be great.

cmetzger93

I think it would be awesome to be able to go to a courthouse type place in towns and get a name change for crowns or a bookstore and get motifs for crowns. For me it would add a lot to the game

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Another brilliant idea from @Gidorick certainly gets my supports.

All The Best

AlienSlof

I really like this idea as it neatly incorporates the crown store into the game itself, which is much more immersive. Perhaps the vendors could have some lines where they shout out about special offers, just like in a real marketplace.

newtinmpls

I don't think it's a good idea; too much potential for sleepy/overtired gamer addicts (who me? ... no I mean some other exhausted ... nevermind) who might purchase something and not realize till the next time they logged in that their gold was still there and crowns were not.

However I remain aggravated that there are no senche mounts or any pets purchasable with in-game gold. I think that each part of Tamriel should have a local in-game mount available with gold.

Yes. I want a wamasu.

VictoriaRachel

LMar wrote: »

While it is a good idea and you put a lot of work in it, in my own personal opinion I would rather run through the game without seeing any mention of crowns or stores or things that I need to purchase with RL money. It could possibly lead to a more pervasive store system

This sums up my view as well. Games that make their cash payment items too prominent, too obvious, run the risk of simply alienating players. I find it much harder to get into a game and really connect with it if every time I go to a vendor there is someone 'asking for my credit card details' as it were. I can see how it would be seen as advertising a service but I think the balance between that an intruding is a very fine one and I am not sure how well they could pull it off.

Personally I think the current system works well as it is so easy to access the crown store in game.

JamilaRaj

I, for one, welcome the idea and look forward for the day we will be able to immerse into shopping with other customers without distractions or fear of being entertained.

bosmern_ESO

You're just asking for ZoS to shove the crown store down our throats even more.

Having everything in the crown store is a lot more simple, time saving, and it allows ZoS to focus on more important things like servers.

Next you'll be asking for Broadcasting Crown store items every hour in game and during quests to have the NPC ask you to buy stuff in the store.

Gidorick

Thanks for the input everyone. The main reason for this request was due to immersion reasons... The fact that there are items in-game that NO merchant in game sells is pretty irksome to me. It wouldn't bother me so much if there were quests that we had to go on to justify why we are on a big cat, a toad-lizard, or a fire horse. But there aren't. This is how it plays out in my head:

(In game-as characters)

Senguine
WOW! Dartun. That is an awesome horse! By the flames and molten hooves I can only imagine the adventure you had to go through to obtain it. Which Daedric Prince did you have to thwart to earn such a steed?

Dartun
Oh... I just got it today. No Daedric prince... no adventure.

Senguine
Oh really? What wayward Stable Master is crazy enough to sell such a beast? I would love to see what other wild creatures he has for sale!

Dartun
Uhm... no Stable has this ride.

Senguine
Then, please tell me, old friend. How did you come by this magnificent horse?

Dartun
Well, you see... I was in the middle of the forest, far from any merchant or jobber, and I opened this menu thing that sort of floated next to me.... It had all sorts of creatures for me to ride and costumes to buy. So, in the middle of nowhere, I got this mount. A little cat to follow me around and a jesters outfit. All of which materialized for me right then and there.

Senguine raises an eyebrow to Dartun's story in disbelief.

Now, I know this is a game... I understand that. But there is a certain amount of care that can be taken with the "Role Playing" aspect of this game. I don't really like that the Crown Store is this ethereal place we go to pluck our items from the heavens. I personally visit the appropriate merchants when I want to buy from the crown store for my own personal RP purposes.

Ideally, we would have Senche Traders and Guar Trainers for the mounts, a costume shop for the costumes and a Furrier for the pets and a Traveling Merchant for things such as XP pots and respect scrolls... But asking ZOS to add new merchants for the Crown Store Items seemed like too much to ask.

I get why people don't want to have the crown store in the game merchants, keeping them separate helps keep the integrity of the player experience intact, but having things in game that are unobtainable in-game is more damaging to that integrity, in my opinion.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

You're just asking for ZoS to shove the crown store down our throats even more. .

There is a simple way to do it.

When you go to the Stable to buy a mount then the Purchase Panel has two tabs. The first is for mounts you buy with in-game gold and it is ALWAYS the default tab. The 2nd is for Crown Store mounts and you have to click on the tab to even see it.

Then for the purists have a toggle in game setting to Show / Not Show Trade Crown Store Tabs and the problem is solved.

Those that want access to the Crown Store can have it, with the click of a button; those that don't can have in permanently hidden until they choose to engage with it.

I'm all for more basic and common sense immersion like this; you don't pull a new car out of your ear do you? You go to the dealership.

All The Best

timidobserver

Good idea, but I can see why they are reluctant. Anybody that spent crowns on mistake would ragequit after demanding a refund and being denied.

Gidorick

timidobserver wrote: »

Good idea, but I can see why they are reluctant. Anybody that spent crowns on mistake would ragequit after demanding a refund and being denied.

With the confirmation pop up, I don't see how people could accidentally buy something. Hell, add a second pop up after the first that's says

THIS PURCHASE WILL DEDUCT 2,500 CROWNS FROM YOUR ACCOUNT
-APPROVE
-DECLINE

The money they can make from the visual advertisement would be a boon to ESO.

Those who have the kind of 'issue' that would cause them to bypass TWO confirmation prompts ate the type that are going to 'accidentally' purchase Crown Store items from the Crown Store interface too.

VictoriaRachel

Immersion? Sorry but a vendor selling a flaming horse does not ADD to my immersion. It subtracts from it even further than their addition to the cash shop in the first place. If it is solely a role-play issue, firstly I do not normally interact in character with someone who chooses to ride a mount like that for me it is a very clear "I'm not currently in character" flag. Secondly roleplay is about adding to the world so why no just make up that grand tale of how your character got it?

Gidorick

VictoriaRachel wrote: »

Immersion? Sorry but a vendor selling a flaming horse does not ADD to my immersion. It subtracts from it even further than their addition to the cash shop in the first place. If it is solely a role-play issue, firstly I do not normally interact in character with someone who chooses to ride a mount like that for me it is a very clear "I'm not currently in character" flag. Secondly roleplay is about adding to the world so why no just make up that grand tale of how your character got it?

It's not JUST about role play. I wouldn't have suggested it if it were just for me to get my RP jollies. It's for the overall benefit to ESO. A player seeing the limited mount, or any item, will increase sales. That's good for everyone.

For your Second point, If I'm going that far... why don't I just play pretend outside of the game and stop playing altogether? The game should facilitate the story of the chatacter, not require the player to make excuses for the game's lack of features and function.

VictoriaRachel

Gidorick wrote: »

It's not JUST about role play. I wouldn't have suggested it if it were just for me to get my RP jollies. It's for the overall benefit to ESO. A player seeing the limited mount, or any item, will increase sales. That's good for everyone.

As has been mentioned previously while advertisement may increase sales more prominent display of cash shop items may also harm the game. It can drive people away. People want to be immersed as you have said, but for a lot of people that is done in the opposite way to how you describe. For me to be immersed I need to be able to avoid the real world, and that includes real world cash transactions. In other games where the cash shop is more integrated into the game I felt pressured to buy, that pressure resulted in me leaving the game and spending no more money. Here I know there is a cash shop, and I know that when I want to I can interact with that. For me that is a great way to let me give them money, and let them give me my game.

Gidorick wrote: »

For your Second point, If I'm going that far... why don't I just play pretend outside of the game and stop playing altogether? The game should facilitate the story of the chatacter, not require the player to make excuses for the game's lack of features and function.

I think you have taken the point a little far. Do you not have a character back story? Have you not interacted with other players to weave your own tales into the games outside questing? have you not grabbed a band of friends and made your own relationships, rivalries and comrades? If not then you are really limiting your roleplay and have a whole wondrous world to explore. Roleplay is about adding too the world around us, and sometimes that does mean making excuses. Some of those excuses might be why there is a flaming horse at all... so why not just keep it in the cash shop where it belongs rather than in a stable burning the place down.

Drelkag

I'm all for this idea if it's done in a way as you shown.

Stables can show off new mounts, possibly tailor shops can show off new clothing disguises and such.

JamilaRaj

VictoriaRachel wrote: »

Immersion? Sorry but a vendor selling a flaming horse does not ADD to my immersion. It subtracts from it even further than their addition to the cash shop in the first place. If it is solely a role-play issue, firstly I do not normally interact in character with someone who chooses to ride a mount like that for me it is a very clear "I'm not currently in character" flag.

Not necessarily, he might be role-paying...err...playing...Credit Card Warrior, in which case the most expensive and psychedelic mount & outfit is appropriate.

RazzPitazz

The reason this could seem pushy is because when it Comes to the crown store there are 4 groups; people who love it and use it, people who like it and buy a few things, people who hate it and will not buy anything, and people who are unaware of its existence.
I'm pretty sure the last one is a fractional percentage if existant at all.
There are a decent amount of players who don't like the crown store at all. I'm not saying they should determine how the game is ran, but they need to be kept in mind as their numbers are neither as large or as small as forum goers would most likely speculate. Keeping the crown store out of in game vendor areas respects their wishes, while still allowing for the store to exist.
Your ideas are solid, yet again. However in light of the community as a whole I do believe ZoS is taking the best approach on this one.

Iluvrien

Gidorick wrote: »

Thanks for the input everyone. The main reason for this request was due to immersion reasons... The fact that there are items in-game that NO merchant in game sells is pretty irksome to me. It wouldn't bother me so much if there were quests that we had to go on to justify why we are on a big cat, a toad-lizard, or a fire horse. But there aren't. This is how it plays out in my head: <snip wonderful narrative... sorry @Gidorick&gt;

But this is my point. Many of these items aren't in-game. They are a limited access items that comprise a layer that has been laminated onto the top of ESO in an effort to derive further funds. The flaming steed (by Azura how I hate that thing) isn't the result of a mighty quest against/in service of a Daedric Prince. I isn't even available at a stable that specialises in Monstrous Mounts (for gold).

It is already a contrivance. Why then would we work to integrate it into the game rather than retaining it as the abstraction that it so obviously is?

The process of buying these items relies on no in-game interactions at all. You cannot earn crowns in-game. They exist only in terms of Real World money. As such I believe that they have no place in the game's existing systems which deal, for the most part, with items, concepts and mechanics that are tied to world itself.

I was staunchly against the B2P transition. I have retained my subscription. I do not want this Crown Store cash grab as a part of my gaming experience. The current system is about the best I could hope for, in that I am only even reminded of its existence when I specifically press the key to bring up the UI.... which I may do once a month. Maybe.

Please don't entice them to bring this abhorrent mechanic any further into the limelight.

k9mouse

LMar wrote: »

While it is a good idea and you put a lot of work in it, in my own personal opinion I would rather run through the game without seeing any mention of crowns or stores or things that I need to purchase with RL money. It could possibly lead to a more pervasive store system

Also, there is the lore question -- Guar live in EP, it will follow lore that well if they are in DC for example. Most people (NPC) lore wise will not be selling a guar (unless the stable is own and run by an Argonain)

The same type of logic for Tiger mounts -- non Khajiit will be selling them often out side of AD. Even Bosmer and Altmer, will not buy them as much.

Lore should be a concern in all aspects of the ESO.

newtinmpls

I'm really impressed with not only the passion, but the quality of posts on this thread.

I'm also terribly sleep-deprived at the moment, which may go a LOONG way to explaining why I've been impressed and agreed with just about every post here.

I tend toward the RP aspect, and I had a backstory all set for why my EP character would have a scuttler. And the crown store didn't offer it. Upgraded one of my accounts (yeah I still subscribe ... twice) but didn't take deliver of the mudcrab until I had a character in Stros M'Kai who broke up a back-alley animal pit fight.

I adore the fox.... but I won't purchase it until I can "see" where someone got it. And why.

Nifty2g

i dont get the not being too pushy part, we had system messages about a mount

drschplatt

LMar wrote: »

While it is a good idea and you put a lot of work in it, in my own personal opinion I would rather run through the game without seeing any mention of crowns or stores or things that I need to purchase with RL money. It could possibly lead to a more pervasive store system

What he said.

Iluvrien

Nifty2g wrote: »

i dont get the not being too pushy part, we had system messages about a mount

Yes, and the forums erupted with criticism of those messages, in response to which ZOS said they wouldn't do it any more.

Here is a link to a 19 page thread that occurred at the time... ZOS's response came through Gina:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to confirm on this end, we indeed do not plan to continue with in-game messaging for items such as this (though we will still message if the server is going down, for example). We understand this was not appreciated or desired, and will find better ways to message limited Crown Store items that do not interfere with your gameplay experience.

There are, thankfully, some things about which ZOS is careful with regards to annoying their players. This one of them.

As such it bears repeating, especially since I don't often say this these days, that in this case I believe that ZOS's current approach is the best one for me. By a mile. That said, I can't speak for anyone else. Obviously.