Immersive Crown Store: Player Response to ESO Live Answer

Egonieser

Several F2P AAA mobile/tablet games (which i won't name) have gone down this route a long time ago... (And they're not low quality cheap unknown dev-made ones, but proper large, big budget games, which with slightly higher resolution could easily be ported to consoles or PC's...)

*You hack and slash your way through hordes of deadly enemies, finally clearing the map and going "phew", then you wander around to check if you've not missed something, but wait a minute, what is this? A secret area - SWEET! And it has a hidden NPC in it and it shouts - "I have something for you!" Here i'm thinking "Yeah, finally a reward worthy of my effort" I go talk to him and surprise, surprise: "Special hidden sale! -44% off The shiny diamond sword of epic diamondness, buy now, before the Goblin merchant wanders away in 3h44min15s"

Sorry but... no thank you.

It makes the game feel cheap and lame and truly "F2P'ish" with cheap cash grab gimmicks like that.
A store should be tucked away in the bottom of the menu's with a unnoticable symbol - because believe me, we all know it's there and it sells items..
Dev time could be better spent developing actual content to populate the shop with - that would work for me - i'll even throw my cash at them.

Gidorick

I am not in any way suggesting that we have town criers advertising crown store sales... I'm suggesting exactly what I'm suggesting.

• There be a Crown Tab in appropriate merchants
• Items be shown in-game at those merchants.

That's it.

Maybe my issue is that I come from the single player arena and there is no single player RPG that I play that has a mystical store that I can pull out of thin air (or elsewhere) to buy items to help me in game. I do not like that. I detest that. To me, that is more of a travesty than having to pay real money for those items. The game has no subscription... it needs to make money and I have money I am more than willing to give ZOS.

I didn't buy the Leopard Mount. I didn't buy the Panther Mount. Maybe if I could have seen it in the game environment, not just in a preview window, I would have been more apt to get one. Maybe not.

I would have preferred that Crowns were never introduced into ESO... I would have preferred that all these mounts and pets be offered with in-game quests or gold... but that ship has sailed and now we have a Cash Shop. My suggestion is trying to make the best of the situation by salvaging some of the feeling of ESO.

The opposing argument that having a crown store tab will have the opposite effect and will degrade the "Elder Scrolls-ness" of ESO is a 100% legitimate argument. With that we just have differing opinions, and that's fine.

If Crown Store mounts and items are never introduced into the Stables or other merchants... those in-game merchants will never, ever grow. What they have now is what they will have until the end of time... and to me, that's a maddening prospect.

EQBallzz

LMar wrote: »

While it is a good idea and you put a lot of work in it, in my own personal opinion I would rather run through the game without seeing any mention of crowns or stores or things that I need to purchase with RL money. It could possibly lead to a more pervasive store system

Totally agree. I don't want ZOS mixing cash shop into the game any more than it already is. Give an inch and they will go a mile. If they implemented this who know where it would go next. Die and a crown rez option is available? The possibilities of crown store intrusions are limitless and that would be very bad. It's already bad enough now so NO NO NO to making it worse.

Gidorick

Well, hopefully ZOS will take this thread as a whole if they ever consider including Crown Store items in-game. I think this thread has a pretty good case for and some pretty strong opinions against.

If done properly it would increase sales, immersion and player activity. If done improperly, it will backfire and people would walk away from the game. It'll probably come down to how desperate they get with the Crown Store, but by that point they may not be willing to make a non-intrusive implementation.

Gidorick

cmetzger93 wrote: »

I think it would be awesome to be able to go to a courthouse type place in towns and get a name change for crowns or a bookstore and get motifs for crowns. For me it would add a lot to the game

@cmetzger93 I actually suggested this concept back in March... I LOVE the idea of book stores for Motifs and the need to go to the town's overseer (the judge and jury in many of these towns) to get a name change. I even like the idea of going to the banker to buy more Crowns. Have an associated Credit Card? The Crowns are charged to that. Have a Crown Card (if they are ever released) then that opens the menu to let you input the code.

Here was the original post... that didn't get much traction. As I said in that thread... this is one of those "different strokes for different folks" sorts of things.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157476/immersive-crown-store-concept

JamilaRaj

Iluvrien wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

i dont get the not being too pushy part, we had system messages about a mount

Yes, and the forums erupted with criticism of those messages, in response to which ZOS said they wouldn't do it any more.

Here is a link to a 19 page thread that occurred at the time... ZOS's response came through Gina:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to confirm on this end, we indeed do not plan to continue with in-game messaging for items such as this (though we will still message if the server is going down, for example). We understand this was not appreciated or desired, and will find better ways to message limited Crown Store items that do not interfere with your gameplay experience.

There are, thankfully, some things about which ZOS is careful with regards to annoying their players. This one of them.

As such it bears repeating, especially since I don't often say this these days, that in this case I believe that ZOS's current approach is the best one for me. By a mile. That said, I can't speak for anyone else. Obviously.

But that they do not plan to continue with messaging does not imply they won't do it any more. She simply said there were no plans at that point.

Slurg

Iluvrien wrote: »

While I do, as usual, like the way that @Gidorick's idea is put together...

Rosveen wrote: »

LMar wrote: »

While it is a good idea and you put a lot of work in it, in my own personal opinion I would rather run through the game without seeing any mention of crowns or stores or things that I need to purchase with RL money. It could possibly lead to a more pervasive store system

Same here.

... ^ This. The crown store is an addition I don't want to a game I rather enjoy. Keeping to their original statement of not integrating or advertising crown store items in-game is important to me, especially in light of how other such statements have been subject to "revision".

I don't want to see it or hear about it unless I specifically choose to do so. I am also worried about the crownstore having an increased reach. It already has its mucky paws into areas where I don't want it to be (motifs, explorers pack) and have no desire whatsoever to see that reach expanded upon.

I agree with this. Keep the crown store separate to be faithful to the original intent. It's very easy to find and use on its own icon. We shouldn't encourage ZOS to reverse course on yet another feature and enrage the player base again. Mounts and costumes on a separate tab may seem harmless but what about when they take the next step to consumables, and then what about after that? Better not to start down that path. People can already see the special mounts and costumes in game on other players who bought them.

Aballister

I would prefer it was kept apart, after playing DDO/LOTRO where windows/tabs/menus, actually pretty much everything has a button next to it for "buy in store".

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Aballister wrote: »

I would prefer it was kept apart, after playing DDO/LOTRO where windows/tabs/menus, actually pretty much everything has a button next to it for "buy in store".

I played lotro almost daily for 5 years.

I agree those Store buttons are on most menus; however, two important points need to be made: 1) You are never forced to press them, 2) it took me less than 2 days to learn to totally ignore that they even existed.

For the record as regards in game stores I think LotRO's is the best I have seen, although that may be because they have always had mechanisms for players to earn Turbine Points in-game.

All The Best

Gidorick

Slurg wrote: »

I played lotro almost daily for 5 years.

I agree those Store buttons are on most menus; however, two important points need to be made: 1) You are never forced to press them, 2) it took me less than 2 days to learn to totally ignore that they even existed.

For the record as regards in game stores I think LotRO's is the best I have seen, although that may be because they have always had mechanisms for players to earn Turbine Points in-game.

All The Best

When I read there are "Store buttons are on most menus" I don't think "man that sounds annoying" I think, "That sounds like it's easy to find exactly what I want."

I had no idea ESO had Crown Store respec scrolls until recently....

badbeansnub18_ESO

I like the idea. How about also making champion points reset similar to other skill point resets where you must find a temple to pray at?

Gidorick

badbeansnub18_ESO wrote: »

I like the idea. How about also making champion points reset similar to other skill point resets where you must find a temple to pray at?

that would make sense.

nimander99

To me, Crowns are just another in-game currency, so yeah @Gidorick I'd love to see this implemented. Also wtg on putting together your images for what it would look like, you obviously spent a lot of time working on this!

To @ZOS_JessicaFolsom I submit this post as @Gidorick resume for a job with y'all.

retyler3_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

By visually representing Crown Store mounts at the stable, and costumes on NPCs around Merchants, I believe more players will be enticed into buying Crown Store items. Seeing the item in game will allow players to visually inspect the item prior to purchase, and can be a great benefit to the Crown Store system.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but you can already see what the item will look like in game by clicking on the item in the Crown Store when it turns into a magnifying glass.

Gidorick wrote: »

Oh, and it's important to note that this would NOT replace the crown store in any way. It would simply be another way to buy the Crown Store items.

I'm glad you included this part as well. I really like your idea, but I would not want the Crown Store UI to be removed.

Once again nice idea and extremely well presented.

EQBallzz

Gidorick wrote: »

Well, hopefully ZOS will take this thread as a whole if they ever consider including Crown Store items in-game. I think this thread has a pretty good case for and some pretty strong opinions against.

If done properly it would increase sales, immersion and player activity. If done improperly, it will backfire and people would walk away from the game. It'll probably come down to how desperate they get with the Crown Store, but by that point they may not be willing to make a non-intrusive implementation.

@Gidorick
I frequently agree with your posts but I'm at a loss as to why you think this would be a good idea. I get what you want to do and on some level I see how you think this would improve immersion but on the other hand..the more cash purchases are integrated into the game the less immersive it is. The more you have to think about your RL wallet in game before buying things the less virtual the world becomes.

Do you really think ZOS can be trusted to so closely integrate the crown store into the game like you are suggesting? ZOS has already shown awful judgement with numerous things including in-game splash screen advertising among others. This would only incentivize them to "integrate" more and more of the game with cash purchase options and that is NOT a good thing.

The more they streamline cash purchases in-game to the point that you can barely tell the difference between cash and gold the more predatory this system becomes..preying on impulse buying and those who may otherwise not buy/spend so much if it wasn't so integrated. Sorry but based on the ZOS track record I think this is a terrible idea.

Kaynlor

I think @Gidorick has a great idea. I hate the fact that ESO went from subbased to B2P w/ Crown Store, but since they did, making it a part of the world, via a tab under merchants, is a great idea. You have to tab to see the items, and you have to confirm the purchase helps keep accidental purchases down. Also having the Gold items on the default page really means you don't see the Crown items unless you look for them. It's not advertising so much as it's convenient for those who want to use it.

Gidorick

@EQBallzz, I'm trying to make the best of the crown store situation... if there were ways to obtain Senche and Guar mounts and pets in-game (other versions, not the versions we have in the Crown Store) maybe I wouldn't take issue with the Crown Store being out-of-world. Or even if the Crown Store purchases accompanied a mission. If the Leopard and Panther mount both had separate 1 hour quests associated with them to where I bought the mount and was given the mount and a note that gives me a quest... I would have totally bought both. If it was the same quest, I would have at least bought one.

It's the disconnection that I dislike. It makes the items from the store seem out of place in Tamriel. There's no reason for me to be running around on a big cat... but the horse... I got that from the stables.

Yes, yes... I can just imagine the reason I got the big cat or frog-lizard thing... but it would be nice for the Crown Store and ESO to work synergistically with one another where one makes the other better, instead of them being this disjointed forced marriage.

I had an In Game Crown Store Integration concept I still think would be amazing.

EQBallzz

Gidorick wrote: »

@EQBallzz, I'm trying to make the best of the crown store situation... if there were ways to obtain Senche and Guar mounts and pets in-game (other versions, not the versions we have in the Crown Store) maybe I wouldn't take issue with the Crown Store being out-of-world. Or even if the Crown Store purchases accompanied a mission. If the Leopard and Panther mount both had separate 1 hour quests associated with them to where I bought the mount and was given the mount and a note that gives me a quest... I would have totally bought both. If it was the same quest, I would have at least bought one.

It's the disconnection that I dislike. It makes the items from the store seem out of place in Tamriel. There's no reason for me to be running around on a big cat... but the horse... I got that from the stables.

Yes, yes... I can just imagine the reason I got the big cat or frog-lizard thing... but it would be nice for the Crown Store and ESO to work synergistically with one another where one makes the other better, instead of them being this disjointed forced marriage.

I had an In Game Crown Store Integration concept I still think would be amazing.

That's just it, though. This wouldn't make the crown store better. It would make it worse. As bad as it is now..something like this would just create more and more in-game crown purchases. Do you really want RL money options for everything in game? Do you really think ZOS can be trusted not to do that? I think they have proven they can't be trusted. This would ultimately turn this game into an in-game ATM for ZOS to charge for resurrections, potions, repairs, horses, pets, respecs and probably armor/weapons and CP eventually. It wouldn't surprise me if they added a RL money option to the guild trader bidding system. Just think how much money ZOS could make then!

c0rp

Nice work you did there! Looks very good indeed. I as well as others would prefer to keep it outside of the game, and I think its in the best interest of ZOS to do so as well...putting it in game just adds more uneeded "p2w hype" (even if it isn't).

Gidorick

I kind of see it going that way anyway @EQBallzz. That's part of the reason for the suggestion. ANY new content is going to be Crown Store provided so merchants, like the stables, will probably never have any new horses to buy.... not that anyone is buying for Gold horses anyway.

Without Crown Store Integration merchants will not change or offer new goods. With Integration they would change, making them more dynamic and intetesting.

I'd lothe to see the day where we log in, open the crown store, buy a mount, but a repair kit, buy a bank access scroll, buy a research potion, buy a portable crafting station and perform all the tasks in the game without actually having to play the game.

Iluvrien

Gidorick wrote: »

I'd lothe to see the day where we log in, open the crown store, buy a mount, but a repair kit, buy a bank access scroll, buy a research potion, buy a portable crafting station and perform all the tasks in the game without actually having to play the game.

And yet seeking further integration of the crown store into the game is more than likely to encourage exactly the kind of behaviour you say that you loathe.

I honestly don't get this.

EQBallzz

Gidorick wrote: »

I kind of see it going that way anyway @EQBallzz. That's part of the reason for the suggestion. ANY new content is going to be Crown Store provided so merchants, like the stables, will probably never have any new horses to buy.... not that anyone is buying for Gold horses anyway.

Without Crown Store Integration merchants will not change or offer new goods. With Integration they would change, making them more dynamic and intetesting.

I'd lothe to see the day where we log in, open the crown store, buy a mount, but a repair kit, buy a bank access scroll, buy a research potion, buy a portable crafting station and perform all the tasks in the game without actually having to play the game.

If this game even comes close to approaching that I will have been long gone so I don't really care. That would be pretty sad.

Gidorick

EQBallzz wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I kind of see it going that way anyway @EQBallzz. That's part of the reason for the suggestion. ANY new content is going to be Crown Store provided so merchants, like the stables, will probably never have any new horses to buy.... not that anyone is buying for Gold horses anyway.

Without Crown Store Integration merchants will not change or offer new goods. With Integration they would change, making them more dynamic and intetesting.

I'd lothe to see the day where we log in, open the crown store, buy a mount, but a repair kit, buy a bank access scroll, buy a research potion, buy a portable crafting station and perform all the tasks in the game without actually having to play the game.

If this game even comes close to approaching that I will have been long gone so I don't really care. That would be pretty sad.

Maybe my suggestion is flawed but that's what I'm trying to prevent. I don't want this game to end up a menu driven experience. It should be more tactile than that. I got this mount because I DID something, even if it's just visiting the stables.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Iluvrien wrote: »

And yet seeking further integration of the crown store into the game is more than likely to encourage exactly the kind of behaviour you say that you loathe.

I honestly don't get this.

No, it doesn't.

Going to stable master to buy a mount, for gold or crowns makes sense.

Putting Crown Store access at the logical place to access those goods seems fine to me, and doesn't make what you fear more likely.

What makes what you fear more likely is bean-counter decisions by ZeniMax, and they'll be made anyway.

All The Best

PKMN12

the moment you mentioned AAA and mobile game in the same sentence, your entire argument fell flat.

Iluvrien

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Going to stable master to buy a mount, for gold or crowns makes sense.

Really? Going to a stable-master in game and buying one mount with gold coins that can be found and looted in the world... and then paying for another with a currency that has no physical basis in the game world and can only be generated by an external process "makes sense"?

I suspect we have difference opinions on what makes narrative sense then. All well and good.

As for the bean-counter decisions, they aren't inevitable... but your espousing making it easier to carry out crown store purchases by being reminded of them during your normal playing experience? That will almost certainly help those decisions along. Making it easier for your customers to give you money through a new, integrated, channel usually results in them giving you more money through that channel. I have had some professional experience with this.

Gidorick

Iluvrien wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Going to stable master to buy a mount, for gold or crowns makes sense.

Really? Going to a stable-master in game and buying one mount with gold coins that can be found and looted in the world... and then paying for another with a currency that has no physical basis in the game world and can only be generated by an external process "makes sense"?

I suspect we have difference opinions on what makes narrative sense then. All well and good.

As for the bean-counter decisions, they aren't inevitable... but your espousing making it easier to carry out crown store purchases by being reminded of them during your normal playing experience? That will almost certainly help those decisions along. Making it easier for your customers to give you money through a new, integrated, channel usually results in them giving you more money through that channel. I have had some professional experience with this.

Well it makes MORE narrative sense than an incorporeal marketplace that delivers rideable beasts from on-high.

As for the money making.... if this concept brings more money in the door I REALLY hope ZOS does it. More money equals a stronger and longer life for ESO.

JamilaRaj

Gidorick wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Going to stable master to buy a mount, for gold or crowns makes sense.

Really? Going to a stable-master in game and buying one mount with gold coins that can be found and looted in the world... and then paying for another with a currency that has no physical basis in the game world and can only be generated by an external process "makes sense"?

I suspect we have difference opinions on what makes narrative sense then. All well and good.

As for the bean-counter decisions, they aren't inevitable... but your espousing making it easier to carry out crown store purchases by being reminded of them during your normal playing experience? That will almost certainly help those decisions along. Making it easier for your customers to give you money through a new, integrated, channel usually results in them giving you more money through that channel. I have had some professional experience with this.

Well it makes MORE narrative sense than an incorporeal marketplace that delivers rideable beasts from on-high.

It does not make any narrative sense whatsoever to buy tigers for dollars in stables.

Gidorick wrote: »

As for the money making.... if this concept brings more money in the door I REALLY hope ZOS does it. More money equals a stronger and longer life for ESO.

I would dare to say the reverse. Remember, it's money from cash shop, and all there is to sell is at best fluff, at worst corruption and subversion of game mechanics; it's money made by making the game worse. If it's big money...

Gidorick

JamilaRaj wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Going to stable master to buy a mount, for gold or crowns makes sense.

Really? Going to a stable-master in game and buying one mount with gold coins that can be found and looted in the world... and then paying for another with a currency that has no physical basis in the game world and can only be generated by an external process "makes sense"?

I suspect we have difference opinions on what makes narrative sense then. All well and good.

As for the bean-counter decisions, they aren't inevitable... but your espousing making it easier to carry out crown store purchases by being reminded of them during your normal playing experience? That will almost certainly help those decisions along. Making it easier for your customers to give you money through a new, integrated, channel usually results in them giving you more money through that channel. I have had some professional experience with this.

Well it makes MORE narrative sense than an incorporeal marketplace that delivers rideable beasts from on-high.

It does not make any narrative sense whatsoever to buy tigers for dollars in stables.

Does it make more narrative sense to obtain one from nowhere?

Now, I'm agreeing that neither makes perfect sense. I would prefer a Khajiit Senche trainer merchant in game, which I have suggested in the past, but asking for new merchants to be added across Tamriel is unreasonable.

Rosveen

I'd argue that selling flaming ponies at every stable all around Tamriel is far more immersion-breaking than the crown store, but that's not my main concern. What's more important to me is that it would blur the distinction between in-game and real world money. You can put it in a separate tab, it doesn't matter, I still talk to an in-game merchant and see "give me your credit card please." I don't want it. I don't want to EVER be reminded about real money purchases when I'm playing.