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ESO should allow for cross faction PVE/Dungeons?

  • KerinKor
    KerinKor
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    Yes
    The factions exist solely as a thin basis for PVP, they have no real existence in TES lore, as such they're artificial and having three of them simply fragments players worse than in games with only 2 factions.

    Frankly they shouldn't exist in the PVE side of the game.
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Yes
    /lurk
    Best thing I've seen all week :D
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Darlgon
    Darlgon
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    /lurk

    /cry
    Power level to CP160 in a week:
    Where is the end game? You just played it.
    Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
    Where is new content? Sigh.
  • Dagoth_Rac
    Dagoth_Rac
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    Yes
    Yes. But only in instanced dungeons and Trials. I don't think you should be teaming up cross-faction to help some miner find his lost pick axe. But the Main Story already supports the idea of cross-faction cooperation in certain circumstances. I think Rilis trying to escape from the Banished Cells or the Serpent attempting to wreak havoc on Craglorn would count as extreme circumstances. So just have some bit of storyline where the Undaunted state that, similar to the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild, they are not taking sides in the war over the Ruby Throne. The threats that the Undaunted face are so serious that putting aside factional differences to confront them is acceptable.

    That being said, I would be OK with something that encourages same-faction group PvE but does not require it. Like +10% XP while all members of the group are in the same faction. So you'll want to find people in your faction, but if you just want to play with a friend in another faction, or you really need a 4th, it is still possible to go cross-faction.
  • newtinmpls
    newtinmpls
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    Yes
    Dagoth_Rac wrote: »
    Yes. But only in instanced dungeons and Trials. I don't think you should be teaming up cross-faction to help some miner find his lost pick axe..

    On the other hand, if you 1-allow for cross-faction guild (fighters and mages) activity AND the idea that agents of Mannimarco and/or Molag Bal are constantly up to no-good....

    And given that there are many quests in game where it turns out you have been working for "the bad guys"

    How about a 3-sided mission where 1 & 2 are rescue displaced civilians or slaves or something and side 3 is being duped to kill good guys.

    This might have to be some sort of que-ed up instance, but it would be really fun.
    Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
    Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
    Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
    Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.
    ***
    Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
    House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
    Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis
  • VileDeeds77
    VileDeeds77
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    Yes

    I can't tell you how many times I ask in guild if anyone wants to run something and no one is on at the time with a character at or even near my level in the faction of the character I'm wanting to run something on.
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    And I could careless if youre growing tired of hearing the immersion argument. The game has a setting and needs to stay consistent if it means to tell a story.

    From a technical standpoint, i don't see how this would break immersion any more than redguards fighting alongside khajiits in cyrodiil already does.

    I mean, you would not even know the player in your dungeon group is from an enemy faction unless he specifically tells you.
    (I constantly have this problem in guild chat: "Where do i go to respec?" - "Wayrest" - "Is that in Auridon?") :)
  • GOREKIN
    GOREKIN
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    No
    No,

    Factions are apart of the game. It is in the lore of this game. Soon PVP and PVE going to crash into each other. It is nice you want to play with more people but you can't throw out the whole story to do so. Lore is important to this game. The story line is one thing that makes this game so great.

    For example: The Imperial City

    You are DC and you fight EP and AD to get into the city so you can play in the new PVE dungeons. When you get inside should those EP and AD be able to join ya as friends in the Dungeon? Should you all just have a group hug even though they made it hell for to get into the dungeon in the first place?

    Race is not a matter of faction since you buy an item that lets you play any race. Factions do not like each other at all in the lore of this game. This is why cadwell trys to have you understand the other points of views. This other factions but in the end it doesn't work.

    Maybe in the future the factions will work together but then PVP would be out the door.

    One thing Zos could do is let people change faction once. It would make sense at the end of Gold that you get a chance to change your faction. Maybe you learn that DC are mean and you want AD.

    I hope all this make sense.

    Edited by GOREKIN on July 5, 2015 10:44AM
  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    GOREKIN wrote: »
    It is nice you want to play with more people but you can't throw out the whole story to do so. Lore is important to this game.

    You can already be in the same guild with the people you fight in cyrodiil. If that does not 'throw the whole story out' already, then being able to go to dungeon with them won't either. Just my humble opinion.
  • GTech_1
    GTech_1
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    Yes
    /lurk

    I just want to toss this into the mix:
    Cross faction PvE dungeons have been asked for, in the /feedback of us overly dedicated folk, since early release on the PC.
    Please check the log of my own in-game /feedback for more info (@GTech_1).

    I am glad to see these long-standing requests, hopefully, gaining some traction.

    Sincerely,
    ~GTech_1
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Yes
    GOREKIN wrote: »
    No,

    Factions are apart of the game. It is in the lore of this game. Soon PVP and PVE going to crash into each other. It is nice you want to play with more people but you can't throw out the whole story to do so. Lore is important to this game. The story line is one thing that makes this game so great.

    For example: The Imperial City

    You are DC and you fight EP and AD to get into the city so you can play in the new PVE dungeons. When you get inside should those EP and AD be able to join ya as friends in the Dungeon? Should you all just have a group hug even though they made it hell for to get into the dungeon in the first place?

    Race is not a matter of faction since you buy an item that lets you play any race. Factions do not like each other at all in the lore of this game. This is why cadwell trys to have you understand the other points of views. This other factions but in the end it doesn't work.

    Maybe in the future the factions will work together but then PVP would be out the door.

    One thing Zos could do is let people change faction once. It would make sense at the end of Gold that you get a chance to change your faction. Maybe you learn that DC are mean and you want AD.

    I hope all this make sense.
    @GOREKIN Since you seem to be on the side of "the lore", I was just wondering your opinion on the posts already on this thread about why it is more lore-breaking than lore-friendly to keep factions apart for content that is considered neutral.

    Here's one of mine, so you don't have to go looking for it:
    Enodoc wrote: »
    Assuming that it is technically possible to do cross-faction PvE, it would be lore-friendly in the following situations:
    (beware minor spoilers)
    • Coldharbour: All three alliance leaders have sanctioned the Guild invasion, so it would make sense for members of all alliances to be there.
    • Craglorn: This zone is politically neutral with no fealty to any alliance.The Star-Gazers are searching for help against the Celestials in each Alliance Capital, so it would make sense for members of all alliances to respond.
    • Group Dungeons and Trials: All of these are organised by the Undaunted, who take members from all factions, so any Undaunted should be able to group with any other Undaunted to tackle it.
    • Eyevea and the Earth Forge:Members of the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild come from all alliances, and these are their safe zones, so people from all alliances will be there.

    [...] all of these places are Neutral Zones, so there is absolutely no reason for factions to be separated.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • GOREKIN
    GOREKIN
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    No
    When ESO starts, the nations lived independently but in relative content. Then the pacts united neighboring nations in a struggle to obtain the Imperial throne. When Molag Bal destroyed the ruling family of Cyrodiil, this caused a power vacuum that allowed nearly anyone to contend for the Imperial throne

    PVP battles start

    We killed (well kinda of) Molag Bal. Now all the factions can go after the throne for next 300 years until Talos to rise to the Imperial throne.

    The question is when The Imperial City comes in is it the birth of Talos or are we still in that 300 years?

    So yes it took all factions to get rid of Molag bal but now their is an empty throne. Think game of thrones. Each faction wants it to be theirs.

    So basically a time line would be you help get rid of Molag Bal. The throne is empty...Cadwell takes you back in time to see how the other factions are. You finish Gold.

    Now all the factions are not friends anymore they want that throne.

    The real issue is that in most MMO the pvp lore and pve lore do not match up. With The Imperial City having both pvp and pve elements it has to match up. We will find out in the coming weeks.




  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Yes
    GOREKIN wrote: »
    With The Imperial City having both pvp and pve elements it has to match up.
    Imperial City is within Cyrodiil, and therefore most likely follows the established lore for Cyrodiil - the alliances at war. But you haven't addressed all the neutral guild stuff that I mentioned above. People are mainly asking for cross-faction PvE in zones where content is neutral, not in zones where faction interests are important.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • GOREKIN
    GOREKIN
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    No
    Out of your list only 2 would make sense but it wont help with v16 content.

    You could have Craglorn Share the area with all factions. Group Dungeons and Trials.

    Group Dungeons and Trials: All of these are organised by the Undaunted, who take members from all factions, so any Undaunted should be able to group with any other Undaunted to tackle it.

    but that is not going to help new content. It really depends what ZoS comes out with. If all undaunted scales to v16 then it would make sense. If all Trials scale it might make sense. We just don't know yet.

    To vote on this now seems a little too late for the content. It will be the new things people will want more people to group with.



  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Yes
    GOREKIN wrote: »
    To vote on this now seems a little too late for the content. It will be the new things people will want more people to group with.
    I don't agree. Cross-Faction in somewhere like Craglorn is even more important now as less people per alliance are in that zone. If it was cross-faction, you would have three times the number of potential group members than you do currently, and that number will only reduce as more content comes out. But I don't really care for the grouping and gameplay reasons, just the lore. ZOS has specifically established the "working together" vibe for Coldharbour, and yet we can't. ZOS has specifically established the "neutral in the war" status for the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild, and yet everyone in Eyevea is from my alliance. Here's a repeat of my post of how ZOS has broken their own lore by keeping factions separate:
    Enodoc wrote: »
    • At the start of the Coldharbour story chain, there's two whole quests to get the Alliances working together, and the result of those quests is that the leaders approve the mission, led by the Guilds. So why can't I, as a member of those Guilds (or an independent adventurer), meet up with any other member of those guilds (or independent adventurer) while in Coldharbour? Not having cross-faction here breaks the lore they specifically established for this region.
    • Craglorn swears fealty to no alliance. The Star-Gazer Heralds are looking for assistance against the Celestial threat in all three Alliance capitals. If I answer the call in Wayrest, someone else will answer the call in Elden Root. The premise of Craglorn is specifically about working with others to defeat this great threat, so why can't I work with anyone who answers the call for assistance? Not having cross-faction here breaks the lore they specifically established for this region.
    • Eyevea is a location the Mages Guild has found which is specifically stated to be for members of all alliances to meet up and pursue Guild activities without the shadow of the war looming over them. So why are there no members from other alliances there? Not having cross-faction here breaks the lore they specifically established for this faction and region.
    • The Earth Forge is a secret Fighters Guild location where members can train with each other away from the shackles of the war. Why then are there only people from my alliance there? Not having cross-faction here breaks the lore they specifically established for this faction.
    • The Undaunted are a group of adventurers who travel Tamriel looking for adventure. They take members from all alliances, as the only requirement is a penchant for dangerous adventure. Why does nobody from any other alliances have this penchant for adventure? Not having cross-faction here breaks the lore they specifically established for this faction.

    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Yes
    Sharee wrote: »
    GOREKIN wrote: »
    It is nice you want to play with more people but you can't throw out the whole story to do so. Lore is important to this game.

    You can already be in the same guild with the people you fight in cyrodiil. If that does not 'throw the whole story out' already, then being able to go to dungeon with them won't either. Just my humble opinion.

    That's a loop hole with guilds that should have been closed in beta.
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Yes
    ..simply because....
    it has no impact on cyodiil or PVP
    finding groups to do content at the same place as you and the same time as you is an issue....a big issue.
    phase locked quests, gate player compatibility even more ...making even less numbers available.

    quantity of COMPATIBLE players at any time and place is the issue that need fixing.
    Edited by Rune_Relic on July 6, 2015 9:54AM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • Seth_Black
    Seth_Black
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    No
    to all who voted YES:
    banginghead1.jpg
    IF your stupid 'demand' would be valid at any point, ZOS should remove factions and close Cyrodiil too...
    Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.
    It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Yes
    Seth_Black wrote: »
    to all who voted YES:
    banginghead1.jpg
    IF your stupid 'demand' would be valid at any point, ZOS should remove factions and close Cyrodiil too...
    @Seth_Black Did you miss all of the Neutral Zones comments? Working together on neutral content with neutral parties would not affect your faction in Cyrodiil.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Seth_Black
    Seth_Black
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    No
    Enodoc wrote: »
    @Seth_Black Did you miss all of the Neutral Zones comments? Working together on neutral content with neutral parties would not affect your faction in Cyrodiil.

    As it states in the main question: Do you think ESO should offer cross faction dungeon access?

    Many players would agree, that PvP and PvE content should have full faction split without exceptions, so overall feeling of your faction allegiance stays intact. We are still AT WAR and till game moves on to the next step past Cyrodiil war it breaks immersion completely. AFTER finishing the war (if it ever happens) there won't be peace anyway ...we will have another conflict soon ;) there CAN'T be peace ...that would be ending good for a single-player game :)
    Every single quest in own faction zones shows us preparations for that war ...why should we team up with any other faction in dungeons? It doesn't make any sense at this point at all.
    Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.
    It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Yes
    Seth_Black wrote: »
    Enodoc wrote: »
    @Seth_Black Did you miss all of the Neutral Zones comments? Working together on neutral content with neutral parties would not affect your faction in Cyrodiil.

    As it states in the main question: Do you think ESO should offer cross faction dungeon access?

    Many players would agree, that PvP and PvE content should have full faction split without exceptions, so overall feeling of your faction allegiance stays intact. We are still AT WAR and till game moves on to the next step past Cyrodiil war it breaks immersion completely. AFTER finishing the war (if it ever happens) there won't be peace anyway ...we will have another conflict soon ;) there CAN'T be peace ...that would be ending good for a single-player game :)
    Every single quest in own faction zones shows us preparations for that war ...why should we team up with any other faction in dungeons? It doesn't make any sense at this point at all.
    Because in dungeons, you are not working for your faction, you are working together with a group of people (Undaunted) who share an interest in dungeon-delving, and that group takes members from all alliances. When in dungeons (and other neutral places), you are not wearing the hat of "faction champion", you are wearing the hat of "adventurer", and are looking for other "adventurers" to complete the content with. Same goes for Craglorn.
    Edited by Enodoc on July 6, 2015 10:31AM
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Woeler
    Woeler
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    Yes
    Gameplay and functionality > Immersion

    100x yes
  • Seth_Black
    Seth_Black
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    No
    @Enodoc
    That's STRONG RP we're talking about.
    What's the % of RP players in ESO? 5%? 10%?
    Rest understands one thing: hatered, rage and war (that's three - I KNOW)
    So let's say for the sake of the argument I'm getting into group with three DC players as EP dps
    ...and I don't get heals, they let me die all the time - just for fun
    And then I'll join another group as TANK ...and somehow start forgetting how to taunt? :trollface:
    After that fun run I can always become healer-killer because why not? Healing staff hurts things too, right?
    ...do you see where I'm going with this?
    In theory every idea is great - like nice delicious cake ...but then you must add critical ingredient (players) and from that point onward whatever you would do it tastes like s**t anyway.
    There IS faction pride in players, just look at trial leader board posts and how they trash each other ...and still you would like to see them in one place following same goal?
    I don't believe in miracles like this ...not in MMOs
    Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.
    It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Yes
    Seth_Black wrote: »
    @Enodoc
    That's STRONG RP we're talking about.
    What's the % of RP players in ESO? 5%? 10%?
    Rest understands one thing: hatered, rage and war (that's three - I KNOW)
    So let's say for the sake of the argument I'm getting into group with three DC players as EP dps
    ...and I don't get heals, they let me die all the time - just for fun
    And then I'll join another group as TANK ...and somehow start forgetting how to taunt? :trollface:
    After that fun run I can always become healer-killer because why not? Healing staff hurts things too, right?
    ...do you see where I'm going with this?
    In theory every idea is great - like nice delicious cake ...but then you must add critical ingredient (players) and from that point onward whatever you would do it tastes like s**t anyway.
    There IS faction pride in players, just look at trial leader board posts and how they trash each other ...and still you would like to see them in one place following same goal?
    I don't believe in miracles like this ...not in MMOs
    @Seth_Black Is the player-base in general really that much of a jerk? Why would you sabotage your own dungeon run? And it's not just for RP; as others have said, it makes the potential group pool larger and therefore aids general gameplay.
    Personally, I don't care who I'm running a dungeon or quest with as long as it gets done, and I think many people would agree with that. There are a great number of cross-faction guilds who would love to do content together. Of course there will also be players and guilds who may not want to be in a cross-faction group, and all they would need to do is not join one.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Kryokill
    Kryokill
    Soul Shriven
    Yes
    Was in a queue for a low level Dungeon (PS4) for about 2 hours lastnight, then gave up. So yes.
  • Seth_Black
    Seth_Black
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    No
    @Enodoc
    Look, that's just my opinion :)
    If ZOS will implement it ...sure I'll read forum threads related to it more often ...with some coke & popcorn ;)
    And regarding player-base ...since ESO went B2P I would say YES, way more than before.
    LFG tool doesn't work well OR nobody is using it anyway, since people complain about queues
    in both cases pulling all factions into same bowl of LFG won't make any difference.
    I've tried more than few times using it (while picking up some flowers) just to check if it works and got group just once and they were not even going for veteran level instance (like I marked in group search tool).
    ZOS as far as I know works (or it's already done) on loot vs scaling system, so regardless what vet level you are you'll get loot on your level. This is great for all low vet players trying to find group and encourages v14 players to join them (now v12 is minimum they take), so I guess instead of mixing factions would be better to improve existing system as it is? That would make more sense. People still don't use it for many reasons. I'm not using it because in my guild there's enough players for me to run anything few times a day.
    If there would be some kind of reward maybe for completing 'randoms' with use of grouping tool? That would drag some more people into it...
    Too much BUTs and IFs ...I'll play the game as it is anyway ;)
    Edited by Seth_Black on July 6, 2015 12:36PM
    Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.
    It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Yes
    I wasn't actually even thinking about the LFG tool that much. I was thinking more in terms of guilds, and particularly my main guild, where we have a bunch of players who would want to do dungeons/Craglorn together, but can't because we are in different factions.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Lorkhan
    Lorkhan
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    Yes
    YES!!!
  • GOREKIN
    GOREKIN
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    No
    To be honest Enodoc we know what you believe in. Post after Post on the same subject.....I also know this post knows what I think about it with my post over and over. I suggest we let others talk about it and we just sit back and relax.

    Basically Enodoc

    You want LFG and craglorn/ undaunted to be cross faction.

    Gorekin

    I do not want it due to Lore and RP.
    You get a one time changed faction option when you finish Gold. Basically after looking through another faction eyes you realize you don't like your faction anymore.

    *of course Enodoc if no else but us replies to this thread we just keep it going forever and forever......the end of time....lol
    Edited by GOREKIN on July 6, 2015 2:17PM
  • ElfFromSpace
    ElfFromSpace
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    Yes
    Lore-wise it makes sense for players to do most of their home faction main story single faction. You're saving your alliance.

    But the story itself says that the 3 factions team up for Coldharbor. I see no reason that Coldharbor, Craglorn and, yes, all undaunted dungeons can't be done multi faction. You're traveling into the other faction for most of the undaunted anyway and going into a special instance with a set level. The undaunted has no tie to any particular faction. I would like to see multiple factions allowed together for this type of content and single faction kept for the main stories. It would make some sense to do multi faction in Caldwell's Gold and Silver too, actually. I'd LOVE to be able to go back to Reaper's March and have it leveled up enough I get experience, which could happen if I were able to select going to AD Gold even as an AD player.

    I also wish we could "level down". Do you know how hard it is to help any of my friends play??? I basically have to make alt accounts lower level. Then I can't play those accounts when they're not online UNLESS they went and played while I wasn't online then I have to go and catch up. It's such a hassle, that I don't do it anymore. Most of my friends have quit because it was too hard for us to play together and they came to play in part to be able to play with me.
    Former GM Elder Scrolls Exchange
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