ESO should allow for cross faction PVE/Dungeons?

Athas24

Yes

Nestor wrote: »

I could not care less about Alliance Factions. Game designers don't care either, otherwise we would not have Caldwell's Gold and Silver forcing encouraging us to quest for each Alliance as we level.

Should the Alliances be kept separate for the people who do PvP? Sure, makes sense there. But those of us who want to play the content of the game should be able to group up with whoever is around that meets our criteria, whatever that may be. I always thought it odd that Coldharbor and Craglorn were Faction separated. I can log into all 3 of Alliances I have characters in and go to those zones and nothing is different with them, other than the people who are around.

Not only that but the heros from all 3 sides are present at the end there for your battle lol

newtinmpls

Yes

I applaud your reasoning, but want to fine tune your analogy

lordrichter wrote: »

[soapbox]There is a conflict in this game between the main Molag Bal quest that threatens all Nirn and the Alliance War in Tamriel. They either had two people designing these parts of the game or one person who had a multiple personality disorder. The whole game from start to end, from level 1 to VR 14, consists of three independent game worlds that intersect ONLY in Cyrodiil and various metas like Guilds. They wanted everything to be separate, yet wanted everything to be together. Up until the player finishes the main quest, the game is merely schizophrenic. It is not until after this that things really get strange as they attempt to stay with this 3-in-1 plus Cyrodiil game concept. They really appear to love this concept but I cannot help but think the game would be 100x better if they had made a single Tamriel instead of three.[/soapbox]

Pick a disorder.

Multiple personality disorder, now usually referred to (and diagnosed as) dissociative identity disorder, is an extreme (pathological, non-functional) version of the myriad of "hats" and roles that everyone wears/has (i.e. I can legitimately relate to different people as 'sister', 'spouse', 'employee', 'nurse', 'teacher' and so on) in this condition these "hats"/roles are disconnected/dissociated from each other. This makes it a great analogy for your objection that the "Malog Bal Quest" hat of ESO is not very well coordinated with the "Alliance War" hat in terms of how the player's experience of these is not very holistic in terms of a vision of the world.

Schizophrenia (originally called 'dementia precox' - as it was thought to be incredibly early onset dementia) refers to a condition where one person does not experience the world in the same/approved/condoned way as their cultural context would expect/require. In the pathological versions of this, the results can be paranoia about food/water/cleanliness or other to the point of metabolic damage due to starvation, violence due to terror or other reactions that basically mean the person doesn't function in their life. This is not as useful a model for what you are describing.

ebls_BR

No

Enodoc wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

Nothing you said breaks the lore.
The guilds don't join the Alliance war, they don't take sides. As far as I know, I never saw Merric or Sees-all-Collors fighting for Covenant or Ebonheart in Cyrodiil.
But the player take a side. He is a guild member, indeed, but he works for his/her banner, for his/her Queen (AD) / High King.

As do many Guild members. When you first speak to the Mages Guild recruiter in Daggerfall:
We're neutral in the war between the three Alliances. While many of us in Daggerfall follow the Lion banner, when we're on Guild business we kneel to no king or queen.
Guild members can take sides too, but not when on Guild business. Coldharbour would be an instance of Guild business.

Since you character engage the war, you disobey your guild, you go to Cyrodiil and start killing people from another alliance, you make them enemies taking a side. You receive a title, you grow in your aliance killing people from another faction. That's why you don't see players in all those places.

I would be inclined to say that argument doesn't work. In addition to the above, in which the Guild recruiters specifically say that their members can follow the banners of the alliances, regardless of what I do in Cyrodiil, Eyevea is still the Mages Guild's safe haven away from the war. Members of all alliances are supposed to be there. Why should me fighting for DC in Cyrodiil determine that there is only DC players in Eyevea? There is no war in Eyevea, just members of the Mages Guild.

This is a basic rule in this game, like choosing a race and receive, as a consequence, your racial passives. But, it's funny because, people choose, but can't accept the consequences (again, just because don't want to reroll). Since you choose a side, you make them enemies you have to accept the consequences of your decision. The war is in the Lore, it is in PVE and have its corollary there. If you remove the major consequence of the war (division between alliances) from the PVE; if anytime I can invite and join an adventure with a captain from Ebonheart, who made fame killing my allies in Daggerfall, or a Aldmeri Captain, who for his/her turn, made her name killing their rivals in Ebonheart, what's the point of having a war?

Exactly. There is no point in the war, and I never chose a side. It was a coincidence that I washed up on the shores of <Faction Name Here> and became their champion. That's what Meridia tells you when you are in Coldharbour, that's what the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild believe. And for anyone who wants to follow those beliefs, they should be able to, and not have to be restricted into some alliance-bound instance in areas which are supposed to be neutral. I don't mind being alliance-bound when following the alliance story in the alliance zones. That makes complete and total sense, but there should be no such restriction on neutral content. Why is there a (game-implemented) division between alliances in neutral areas where the alliances are (lore-wise) supposed to be working together?

Let me ask a question: would you be willing to abandon your alliance ranking, for a cross faction PVE?

Yes. But that shouldn't be necessary. In neutral zones where the lore states that the alliances are working together, the alliances should be able to work together.

Or better, since you are mercenary warrior, who fights for profit, you could fight for any alliance, anytime; this would make sense or would be interesting to you? So today, since they pay me more, I'm na EP soldier, but tomorrow, the AD bid is higher, then I fight for them...

I don't fight for profit, I fight to make the world a better place
Fighting in the war does not make the world a better place, no matter which side it is on.

Again, people only want to break the rules if they are interesting or convinient for them...

Bah, these "rules" make no sense. Neutral areas where only your own faction members exist? Whose stupid rule was that?

These are the game rules. You don't like it, you have the right to quit. I don't like MMO, and for me and most of the TES fans, making TES a MMO was wrong and was a pure business decision. But I don't come here claiming to this game becomes a cooperative RPG, for instance. IMO it is very self-centered and selfish asking to change the rules affecting decisions, choices and time spent of thousands of people just because they displease you. Yeah, displease, because everyone has the option to play with players from another faction, it's just a matter of making another toon (you have 8 slots for that).

You choose a side as soon as you create a character, when you start doing your faction quests, and when you first go to Cyrodiil and start receving order from a Warlord. You swore to obbey your king or your queen in all these. As a player you cannot accept that, but as a character in a game, you accept.
The exceptions are the main quest, the guild quests, etc. That's why you are an execption and they are most solo ones. Coldharbor is a cross faction area? Yep, but not for Alliance soldiers...
How many centurions or captains Jorunn, the Skald-King, for instance, sent to Oblivion to defeat Molag Baal. No alliance soldier was sent there, so in the context of the story, you alone was the only one "soldier" sent, and not an army of thousands of people from different factions. That's why from the story perspective, you are an exception, and we can't see players from other factions (would ruin the immersion).

You don't fight for profit? I don't know if this commentary was sarcastic or naive... So everytime you do a fighters guild quest, gain some gold, donate your money.

Psychobunni

Yes

201 to 50 atm

Pretty please ZOS, with whipped cream and a cherry on top?

PC is hurting bad, this would help more than hurt

Rox83

Yes

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

I would actually go several steps further...
RE: Crossfaction

• Remove alliances outside of PVP, make everyone neutral.
• Get rid of Veteran ranks, remove Cadwell's Silver and Gold zones, make all zones 1-50 for everyone
• New players, after finishing coldharbor (or skipping it) should wash ashore the starting area based on their race
• Have the Wayshrines for all 3 starting zones available immediately
• Make choosing a faction (and, once-only, defecting to another faction) be a quest line available at level 10

RE: Groupfinder

• Scale everyone up to 50, thereby putting everyone in the same queue, thereby making finding a group very fast
• Put in an option for an easier difficulty mode, which can be completed with 4 dps, again faster queues

This is how ESO should've been!
I remember how disappointed I was hearing that they were doing the whole faction thing.
Don't get me wrong I like the PvP but I think picking a faction while in game would've been better.

Rynier

Yes

Even during wars countries came together to defeat a common enemy. But if you had to choose ONE example from history to explain why this could work i would but one.

In December 1914 Christmas British and German soldiers called a truce MID war to all relax together. Play soccer against one another share trophies food and drink. Only to go to war further the next day. IT was called the Christmas truce if you want to read up on it further .

So here 2 countries at WAR with one another stopped their fighting to have the common goal of not fighting on Christmas. Surely the pacts can stop war for an hour to fight a common enemy?

MisterBigglesworth

Yes

AlnilamE wrote: »

1. You mean scale half the people up and the other half down? I'm not sure I like that, but I don't usually have problems finding groups.
2. That's what normal dungeons are. They can also easily be run with 3 players.

Well keep in mind they've already said they're getting rid of Veteran ranks in a future patch.
So when I say "Level 50" I mean MAX LEVEL.
If they were to do this dungeon scaling thing TODAY it would mean scaling everyone up to VR14.

Seth_Black

No

Like there's not enough noobs in your own faction...
From ANY point of view it's stupid.
RP - how? why? what for? NO!
PvP? ...no, wait it's PvE ...so what for?

Plus according to main info about all factions they've got goals to FIGHT other factions ...not joining forces with them.

Xender

Yes

ebls_BR wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

Nothing you said breaks the lore.
The guilds don't join the Alliance war, they don't take sides. As far as I know, I never saw Merric or Sees-all-Collors fighting for Covenant or Ebonheart in Cyrodiil.
But the player take a side. He is a guild member, indeed, but he works for his/her banner, for his/her Queen (AD) / High King.

As do many Guild members. When you first speak to the Mages Guild recruiter in Daggerfall:
We're neutral in the war between the three Alliances. While many of us in Daggerfall follow the Lion banner, when we're on Guild business we kneel to no king or queen.
Guild members can take sides too, but not when on Guild business. Coldharbour would be an instance of Guild business.

Since you character engage the war, you disobey your guild, you go to Cyrodiil and start killing people from another alliance, you make them enemies taking a side. You receive a title, you grow in your aliance killing people from another faction. That's why you don't see players in all those places.

I would be inclined to say that argument doesn't work. In addition to the above, in which the Guild recruiters specifically say that their members can follow the banners of the alliances, regardless of what I do in Cyrodiil, Eyevea is still the Mages Guild's safe haven away from the war. Members of all alliances are supposed to be there. Why should me fighting for DC in Cyrodiil determine that there is only DC players in Eyevea? There is no war in Eyevea, just members of the Mages Guild.

This is a basic rule in this game, like choosing a race and receive, as a consequence, your racial passives. But, it's funny because, people choose, but can't accept the consequences (again, just because don't want to reroll). Since you choose a side, you make them enemies you have to accept the consequences of your decision. The war is in the Lore, it is in PVE and have its corollary there. If you remove the major consequence of the war (division between alliances) from the PVE; if anytime I can invite and join an adventure with a captain from Ebonheart, who made fame killing my allies in Daggerfall, or a Aldmeri Captain, who for his/her turn, made her name killing their rivals in Ebonheart, what's the point of having a war?

Exactly. There is no point in the war, and I never chose a side. It was a coincidence that I washed up on the shores of <Faction Name Here> and became their champion. That's what Meridia tells you when you are in Coldharbour, that's what the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild believe. And for anyone who wants to follow those beliefs, they should be able to, and not have to be restricted into some alliance-bound instance in areas which are supposed to be neutral. I don't mind being alliance-bound when following the alliance story in the alliance zones. That makes complete and total sense, but there should be no such restriction on neutral content. Why is there a (game-implemented) division between alliances in neutral areas where the alliances are (lore-wise) supposed to be working together?

Let me ask a question: would you be willing to abandon your alliance ranking, for a cross faction PVE?

Yes. But that shouldn't be necessary. In neutral zones where the lore states that the alliances are working together, the alliances should be able to work together.

Or better, since you are mercenary warrior, who fights for profit, you could fight for any alliance, anytime; this would make sense or would be interesting to you? So today, since they pay me more, I'm na EP soldier, but tomorrow, the AD bid is higher, then I fight for them...

I don't fight for profit, I fight to make the world a better place
Fighting in the war does not make the world a better place, no matter which side it is on.

Again, people only want to break the rules if they are interesting or convinient for them...

Bah, these "rules" make no sense. Neutral areas where only your own faction members exist? Whose stupid rule was that?

These are the game rules. You don't like it, you have the right to quit. I don't like MMO, and for me and most of the TES fans, making TES a MMO was wrong and was a pure business decision. But I don't come here claiming to this game becomes a cooperative RPG, for instance. IMO it is very self-centered and selfish asking to change the rules affecting decisions, choices and time spent of thousands of people just because they displease you. Yeah, displease, because everyone has the option to play with players from another faction, it's just a matter of making another toon (you have 8 slots for that).

You choose a side as soon as you create a character, when you start doing your faction quests, and when you first go to Cyrodiil and start receving order from a Warlord. You swore to obbey your king or your queen in all these. As a player you cannot accept that, but as a character in a game, you accept.
The exceptions are the main quest, the guild quests, etc. That's why you are an execption and they are most solo ones. Coldharbor is a cross faction area? Yep, but not for Alliance soldiers...
How many centurions or captains Jorunn, the Skald-King, for instance, sent to Oblivion to defeat Molag Baal. No alliance soldier was sent there, so in the context of the story, you alone was the only one "soldier" sent, and not an army of thousands of people from different factions. That's why from the story perspective, you are an exception, and we can't see players from other factions (would ruin the immersion).

You don't fight for profit? I don't know if this commentary was sarcastic or naive... So everytime you do a fighters guild quest, gain some gold, donate your money.

If you don't like mmo go play Skyrim. ESO is still far behind normal single player rpg as RPG game. It is just mmo with TES lore.

ebls_BR

No

If you don't like mmo go play Skyrim. ESO is still far behind normal single player rpg as RPG game. It is just mmo with TES lore.

Lol, so if you want to play with people from another faction, just make another toon in that faction. What's the point of this topic then?
That's why I give that example. Can you understand that?

Xender

Yes

I answer you blamig ESO for being mmo. It's mmo from the all concpets. Its core is mmo and TES lore is addition to mmo core.

Enodoc

Yes

ebls_BR wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

Nothing you said breaks the lore.
The guilds don't join the Alliance war, they don't take sides. As far as I know, I never saw Merric or Sees-all-Collors fighting for Covenant or Ebonheart in Cyrodiil.
But the player take a side. He is a guild member, indeed, but he works for his/her banner, for his/her Queen (AD) / High King.

As do many Guild members. When you first speak to the Mages Guild recruiter in Daggerfall:
We're neutral in the war between the three Alliances. While many of us in Daggerfall follow the Lion banner, when we're on Guild business we kneel to no king or queen.
Guild members can take sides too, but not when on Guild business. Coldharbour would be an instance of Guild business.

Since you character engage the war, you disobey your guild, you go to Cyrodiil and start killing people from another alliance, you make them enemies taking a side. You receive a title, you grow in your aliance killing people from another faction. That's why you don't see players in all those places.

I would be inclined to say that argument doesn't work. In addition to the above, in which the Guild recruiters specifically say that their members can follow the banners of the alliances, regardless of what I do in Cyrodiil, Eyevea is still the Mages Guild's safe haven away from the war. Members of all alliances are supposed to be there. Why should me fighting for DC in Cyrodiil determine that there is only DC players in Eyevea? There is no war in Eyevea, just members of the Mages Guild.

This is a basic rule in this game, like choosing a race and receive, as a consequence, your racial passives. But, it's funny because, people choose, but can't accept the consequences (again, just because don't want to reroll). Since you choose a side, you make them enemies you have to accept the consequences of your decision. The war is in the Lore, it is in PVE and have its corollary there. If you remove the major consequence of the war (division between alliances) from the PVE; if anytime I can invite and join an adventure with a captain from Ebonheart, who made fame killing my allies in Daggerfall, or a Aldmeri Captain, who for his/her turn, made her name killing their rivals in Ebonheart, what's the point of having a war?

Exactly. There is no point in the war, and I never chose a side. It was a coincidence that I washed up on the shores of <Faction Name Here> and became their champion. That's what Meridia tells you when you are in Coldharbour, that's what the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild believe. And for anyone who wants to follow those beliefs, they should be able to, and not have to be restricted into some alliance-bound instance in areas which are supposed to be neutral. I don't mind being alliance-bound when following the alliance story in the alliance zones. That makes complete and total sense, but there should be no such restriction on neutral content. Why is there a (game-implemented) division between alliances in neutral areas where the alliances are (lore-wise) supposed to be working together?

Let me ask a question: would you be willing to abandon your alliance ranking, for a cross faction PVE?

Yes. But that shouldn't be necessary. In neutral zones where the lore states that the alliances are working together, the alliances should be able to work together.

Or better, since you are mercenary warrior, who fights for profit, you could fight for any alliance, anytime; this would make sense or would be interesting to you? So today, since they pay me more, I'm na EP soldier, but tomorrow, the AD bid is higher, then I fight for them...

I don't fight for profit, I fight to make the world a better place
Fighting in the war does not make the world a better place, no matter which side it is on.

Again, people only want to break the rules if they are interesting or convinient for them...

Bah, these "rules" make no sense. Neutral areas where only your own faction members exist? Whose stupid rule was that?

These are the game rules. You don't like it, you have the right to quit. I don't like MMO, and for me and most of the TES fans, making TES a MMO was wrong and was a pure business decision. But I don't come here claiming to this game becomes a cooperative RPG, for instance. IMO it is very self-centered and selfish asking to change the rules affecting decisions, choices and time spent of thousands of people just because they displease you. Yeah, displease, because everyone has the option to play with players from another faction, it's just a matter of making another toon (you have 8 slots for that).

You choose a side as soon as you create a character, when you start doing your faction quests, and when you first go to Cyrodiil and start receving order from a Warlord. You swore to obbey your king or your queen in all these. As a player you cannot accept that, but as a character in a game, you accept.
The exceptions are the main quest, the guild quests, etc. That's why you are an execption and they are most solo ones. Coldharbor is a cross faction area? Yep, but not for Alliance soldiers...
How many centurions or captains Jorunn, the Skald-King, for instance, sent to Oblivion to defeat Molag Baal. No alliance soldier was sent there, so in the context of the story, you alone was the only one "soldier" sent, and not an army of thousands of people from different factions. That's why from the story perspective, you are an exception, and we can't see players from other factions (would ruin the immersion).

You don't fight for profit? I don't know if this commentary was sarcastic or naive... So everytime you do a fighters guild quest, gain some gold, donate your money.

I'm asking for the gameplay of the neutral zones to reflect the established lore of the neutral zones, which sees alliance members working together. It's a server-based rule, not a lore-based rule, that is keeping them separated. It doesn't help that it was heavily implied (even if not actually intended) before launch that cross-faction would be possible post-50.

I may be Emeric's champion, but he agreed with me and Galerion that working together with the other factions in Coldharbour under the Guild's leadership is the best course of action. I may have sworn allegiance to him, but he specifically sanctions the alliances working together under the Guilds, as do the other two leaders. Sure they said they wouldn't send any soldiers, but they do allow the Guild members to go. Emeric sent me, as his champion, into Coldharbour to work with other Guild members.

From the story perspective, other players are not the champions of their factions, because you are the only champion. This is just like in the alliance territories. When you work together with other players there, you are working with adventurers, not other champions. The same would apply in Coldharbour; just members of the Guilds working together with you, the only champion. There is no way to know whether, as players, they are also soldiers who fight in Cyrodiil, because, as characters in Coldharbour, they are on Guild business, and when we're on Guild business we kneel to no king or queen.

Not fighting for profit was a role-play statement, but also reflects my attitude to in-game gold. I have no idea how much gold I have, and don't really care. If I can't afford something, I don't try to specifically earn enough to buy it, I just carry on without it.

ebls_BR

No

Enodoc wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

Nothing you said breaks the lore.
The guilds don't join the Alliance war, they don't take sides. As far as I know, I never saw Merric or Sees-all-Collors fighting for Covenant or Ebonheart in Cyrodiil.
But the player take a side. He is a guild member, indeed, but he works for his/her banner, for his/her Queen (AD) / High King.

As do many Guild members. When you first speak to the Mages Guild recruiter in Daggerfall:
We're neutral in the war between the three Alliances. While many of us in Daggerfall follow the Lion banner, when we're on Guild business we kneel to no king or queen.
Guild members can take sides too, but not when on Guild business. Coldharbour would be an instance of Guild business.

Since you character engage the war, you disobey your guild, you go to Cyrodiil and start killing people from another alliance, you make them enemies taking a side. You receive a title, you grow in your aliance killing people from another faction. That's why you don't see players in all those places.

I would be inclined to say that argument doesn't work. In addition to the above, in which the Guild recruiters specifically say that their members can follow the banners of the alliances, regardless of what I do in Cyrodiil, Eyevea is still the Mages Guild's safe haven away from the war. Members of all alliances are supposed to be there. Why should me fighting for DC in Cyrodiil determine that there is only DC players in Eyevea? There is no war in Eyevea, just members of the Mages Guild.

This is a basic rule in this game, like choosing a race and receive, as a consequence, your racial passives. But, it's funny because, people choose, but can't accept the consequences (again, just because don't want to reroll). Since you choose a side, you make them enemies you have to accept the consequences of your decision. The war is in the Lore, it is in PVE and have its corollary there. If you remove the major consequence of the war (division between alliances) from the PVE; if anytime I can invite and join an adventure with a captain from Ebonheart, who made fame killing my allies in Daggerfall, or a Aldmeri Captain, who for his/her turn, made her name killing their rivals in Ebonheart, what's the point of having a war?

Exactly. There is no point in the war, and I never chose a side. It was a coincidence that I washed up on the shores of <Faction Name Here> and became their champion. That's what Meridia tells you when you are in Coldharbour, that's what the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild believe. And for anyone who wants to follow those beliefs, they should be able to, and not have to be restricted into some alliance-bound instance in areas which are supposed to be neutral. I don't mind being alliance-bound when following the alliance story in the alliance zones. That makes complete and total sense, but there should be no such restriction on neutral content. Why is there a (game-implemented) division between alliances in neutral areas where the alliances are (lore-wise) supposed to be working together?

Let me ask a question: would you be willing to abandon your alliance ranking, for a cross faction PVE?

Yes. But that shouldn't be necessary. In neutral zones where the lore states that the alliances are working together, the alliances should be able to work together.

Or better, since you are mercenary warrior, who fights for profit, you could fight for any alliance, anytime; this would make sense or would be interesting to you? So today, since they pay me more, I'm na EP soldier, but tomorrow, the AD bid is higher, then I fight for them...

I don't fight for profit, I fight to make the world a better place
Fighting in the war does not make the world a better place, no matter which side it is on.

Again, people only want to break the rules if they are interesting or convinient for them...

Bah, these "rules" make no sense. Neutral areas where only your own faction members exist? Whose stupid rule was that?

These are the game rules. You don't like it, you have the right to quit. I don't like MMO, and for me and most of the TES fans, making TES a MMO was wrong and was a pure business decision. But I don't come here claiming to this game becomes a cooperative RPG, for instance. IMO it is very self-centered and selfish asking to change the rules affecting decisions, choices and time spent of thousands of people just because they displease you. Yeah, displease, because everyone has the option to play with players from another faction, it's just a matter of making another toon (you have 8 slots for that).

You choose a side as soon as you create a character, when you start doing your faction quests, and when you first go to Cyrodiil and start receving order from a Warlord. You swore to obbey your king or your queen in all these. As a player you cannot accept that, but as a character in a game, you accept.
The exceptions are the main quest, the guild quests, etc. That's why you are an execption and they are most solo ones. Coldharbor is a cross faction area? Yep, but not for Alliance soldiers...
How many centurions or captains Jorunn, the Skald-King, for instance, sent to Oblivion to defeat Molag Baal. No alliance soldier was sent there, so in the context of the story, you alone was the only one "soldier" sent, and not an army of thousands of people from different factions. That's why from the story perspective, you are an exception, and we can't see players from other factions (would ruin the immersion).

You don't fight for profit? I don't know if this commentary was sarcastic or naive... So everytime you do a fighters guild quest, gain some gold, donate your money.

I'm asking for the gameplay of the neutral zones to reflect the established lore of the neutral zones, which sees alliance members working together. It's a server-based rule, not a lore-based rule, that is keeping them separated. It doesn't help that it was heavily implied (even if not actually intended) before launch that cross-faction would be possible post-50.

I may be Emeric's champion, but he agreed with me and Galerion that working together with the other factions in Coldharbour under the Guild's leadership is the best course of action. I may have sworn allegiance to him, but he specifically sanctions the alliances working together under the Guilds, as do the other two leaders. Sure they said they wouldn't send any soldiers, but they do allow the Guild members to go. Emeric sent me, as his champion, into Coldharbour to work with other Guild members.

From the story perspective, other players are not the champions of their factions, because you are the only champion. This is just like in the alliance territories. When you work together with other players there, you are working with adventurers, not other champions. The same would apply in Coldharbour; just members of the Guilds working together with you, the only champion. There is no way to know whether, as players, they are also soldiers who fight in Cyrodiil, because, as characters in Coldharbour, they are on Guild business, and when we're on Guild business we kneel to no king or queen.

Not fighting for profit was a role-play statement, but also reflects my attitude to in-game gold. I have no idea how much gold I have, and don't really care. If I can't afford something, I don't try to specifically earn enough to buy it, I just carry on without it.

The reason why we don't have a cross faction PVE may be the servers, and if it is, we probably never will have, but that not contradict the fact that having hundred of players, soldiers, captains, centurians, warlords, etc. running dungeons or in a group with their enemies (people we killed in the PVP, everytime, sometimes few minutes before doing a dungeon...) while fighting the war (war which we are all engaged in the context), it's a lore break. Do you do RP and can't see that? Strange... I do RP in this game and the only characters I would accept this idea would be with the toons who never went to Cyrodiil.

ESO already broke the lore so many times (having a unique kind of vampire, the vegetation and climate in Cyrodiil, having hundreds of diferent emperors, etc., etc., etc.). Your signature has the UESP pages right? You know things like that are discussed there all the time (how ESO broke the lore in so many ways, making thousands of exceptions or filling in unusual ways blank piece of history...).

And when I said, a mercenary who fights for profit, gold, etc., I was questioning the players motivation in asking for this in PVE and not in PVP. And again, if you do RP, you know Fighters Guild (I was specific in that moment) have contracts and they have to be paid to fulfill these contracts... Read the "History of the Fighters Guild" or any definition in game for NPC's and see if their purpose is making nirn a better place.

Xender wrote: »

I answer you blamig ESO for being mmo. It's mmo from the all concpets. Its core is mmo and TES lore is addition to mmo core.

I'm not blaming eso for nothing... I already made peace with the fact ESO is a MMO and not a coop RPG like every TES fan wanted. For me, ESO is a spin off , with some poetic license, etc. I just stated that to make a point, which you couldn't be able to understand.

Shunravi

Yes

ebls_BR wrote: »

having a unique kind of vampire, || having hundreds of diferent emperors

I don't see these two as lore breaks because;

There are many different varieties of vampire, this one is just this era's most aggressive strain.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Vampire

"During the entirety of Interregnum, petty warlords had attempted to seize control of Cyrodiil's capital and to reestablish the Empire. None of them lasted for long."
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Interregnum
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_1st_Edition/The_Elsweyr_Confederacy

Unverganglich

I don't really think it matters (in regards to OP) since a lot of the quests seem very similar throughout each playthrough. Subtle detail and location differences, but in essence it's the same quests copied across the three alliances, all sharing the same main story. I think it would be cool to have (if there are not already) some veteran dungeons which are open to all players to run group in regardless of alliance. That being said, from an RP standpoint, it would be awesome to explore all of Tamriel regardless of Alliance.

glak

Yes

nastuug wrote: »

Xender wrote: »

Do you think ESO should offer cross faction dungeon access? It shouldn't have impact on pvp so I don't see any obstacles.

Zenimax if you wish you can sell it as DLC I will pay for it :P

Oh hell yeah I support this!

Put a pay wall on it for serious dough and ignore the QQ. At least the DLC would pay for all of the development costs including bug fixing, paid vacations, and other fun.

newtinmpls

Yes

Unverganglich wrote: »

I don't really think it matters (in regards to OP) since a lot of the quests seem very similar throughout each playthrough. Subtle detail and location differences, but in essence it's the same quests copied across the three alliances, all sharing the same main story.

I can't figure out how to do the hide/spoilers thing so I'll simply say that in two of the alliances there is a quest/task that includes a race, and your instructions are to go as fast as you can - but what happens (depending on how literally you follow the instructions) is very different indeed - and logically based on the 'local' culture.

As for the German/British Christmas truce, well I know at least one other player knows about it, since his handle is @Francis_Toliver

Rosveen

Yes

Today I saw a guildie ask in chat about a quest in Craglorn. As it happened, we were both on the same step and both looking for a group - but of course I was AD and he DC. I couldn't care less about the war, I'm a PvEer in a neutral zone and I just want to play with a friend. Make it happen, ZOS.

nastuug

Yes

Rox83 wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

I would actually go several steps further...
RE: Crossfaction

• Remove alliances outside of PVP, make everyone neutral.
• Get rid of Veteran ranks, remove Cadwell's Silver and Gold zones, make all zones 1-50 for everyone
• New players, after finishing coldharbor (or skipping it) should wash ashore the starting area based on their race
• Have the Wayshrines for all 3 starting zones available immediately
• Make choosing a faction (and, once-only, defecting to another faction) be a quest line available at level 10

RE: Groupfinder

• Scale everyone up to 50, thereby putting everyone in the same queue, thereby making finding a group very fast
• Put in an option for an easier difficulty mode, which can be completed with 4 dps, again faster queues

This is how ESO should've been!
I remember how disappointed I was hearing that they were doing the whole faction thing.
Don't get me wrong I like the PvP but I think picking a faction while in game would've been better.

@Rox83 I was actually excited to hear about another RvR game setup like DAOC was. Sadly, it began tripping over its own feet right out of the gate...

Enodoc

Yes

ebls_BR wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ebls_BR wrote: »

Nothing you said breaks the lore.
The guilds don't join the Alliance war, they don't take sides. As far as I know, I never saw Merric or Sees-all-Collors fighting for Covenant or Ebonheart in Cyrodiil.
But the player take a side. He is a guild member, indeed, but he works for his/her banner, for his/her Queen (AD) / High King.

As do many Guild members. When you first speak to the Mages Guild recruiter in Daggerfall:
We're neutral in the war between the three Alliances. While many of us in Daggerfall follow the Lion banner, when we're on Guild business we kneel to no king or queen.
Guild members can take sides too, but not when on Guild business. Coldharbour would be an instance of Guild business.

Since you character engage the war, you disobey your guild, you go to Cyrodiil and start killing people from another alliance, you make them enemies taking a side. You receive a title, you grow in your aliance killing people from another faction. That's why you don't see players in all those places.

I would be inclined to say that argument doesn't work. In addition to the above, in which the Guild recruiters specifically say that their members can follow the banners of the alliances, regardless of what I do in Cyrodiil, Eyevea is still the Mages Guild's safe haven away from the war. Members of all alliances are supposed to be there. Why should me fighting for DC in Cyrodiil determine that there is only DC players in Eyevea? There is no war in Eyevea, just members of the Mages Guild.

This is a basic rule in this game, like choosing a race and receive, as a consequence, your racial passives. But, it's funny because, people choose, but can't accept the consequences (again, just because don't want to reroll). Since you choose a side, you make them enemies you have to accept the consequences of your decision. The war is in the Lore, it is in PVE and have its corollary there. If you remove the major consequence of the war (division between alliances) from the PVE; if anytime I can invite and join an adventure with a captain from Ebonheart, who made fame killing my allies in Daggerfall, or a Aldmeri Captain, who for his/her turn, made her name killing their rivals in Ebonheart, what's the point of having a war?

Exactly. There is no point in the war, and I never chose a side. It was a coincidence that I washed up on the shores of <Faction Name Here> and became their champion. That's what Meridia tells you when you are in Coldharbour, that's what the Mages Guild and Fighters Guild believe. And for anyone who wants to follow those beliefs, they should be able to, and not have to be restricted into some alliance-bound instance in areas which are supposed to be neutral. I don't mind being alliance-bound when following the alliance story in the alliance zones. That makes complete and total sense, but there should be no such restriction on neutral content. Why is there a (game-implemented) division between alliances in neutral areas where the alliances are (lore-wise) supposed to be working together?

Let me ask a question: would you be willing to abandon your alliance ranking, for a cross faction PVE?

Yes. But that shouldn't be necessary. In neutral zones where the lore states that the alliances are working together, the alliances should be able to work together.

Or better, since you are mercenary warrior, who fights for profit, you could fight for any alliance, anytime; this would make sense or would be interesting to you? So today, since they pay me more, I'm na EP soldier, but tomorrow, the AD bid is higher, then I fight for them...

I don't fight for profit, I fight to make the world a better place
Fighting in the war does not make the world a better place, no matter which side it is on.

Again, people only want to break the rules if they are interesting or convinient for them...

Bah, these "rules" make no sense. Neutral areas where only your own faction members exist? Whose stupid rule was that?

These are the game rules. You don't like it, you have the right to quit. I don't like MMO, and for me and most of the TES fans, making TES a MMO was wrong and was a pure business decision. But I don't come here claiming to this game becomes a cooperative RPG, for instance. IMO it is very self-centered and selfish asking to change the rules affecting decisions, choices and time spent of thousands of people just because they displease you. Yeah, displease, because everyone has the option to play with players from another faction, it's just a matter of making another toon (you have 8 slots for that).

You choose a side as soon as you create a character, when you start doing your faction quests, and when you first go to Cyrodiil and start receving order from a Warlord. You swore to obbey your king or your queen in all these. As a player you cannot accept that, but as a character in a game, you accept.
The exceptions are the main quest, the guild quests, etc. That's why you are an execption and they are most solo ones. Coldharbor is a cross faction area? Yep, but not for Alliance soldiers...
How many centurions or captains Jorunn, the Skald-King, for instance, sent to Oblivion to defeat Molag Baal. No alliance soldier was sent there, so in the context of the story, you alone was the only one "soldier" sent, and not an army of thousands of people from different factions. That's why from the story perspective, you are an exception, and we can't see players from other factions (would ruin the immersion).

You don't fight for profit? I don't know if this commentary was sarcastic or naive... So everytime you do a fighters guild quest, gain some gold, donate your money.

I'm asking for the gameplay of the neutral zones to reflect the established lore of the neutral zones, which sees alliance members working together. It's a server-based rule, not a lore-based rule, that is keeping them separated. It doesn't help that it was heavily implied (even if not actually intended) before launch that cross-faction would be possible post-50.

I may be Emeric's champion, but he agreed with me and Galerion that working together with the other factions in Coldharbour under the Guild's leadership is the best course of action. I may have sworn allegiance to him, but he specifically sanctions the alliances working together under the Guilds, as do the other two leaders. Sure they said they wouldn't send any soldiers, but they do allow the Guild members to go. Emeric sent me, as his champion, into Coldharbour to work with other Guild members.

From the story perspective, other players are not the champions of their factions, because you are the only champion. This is just like in the alliance territories. When you work together with other players there, you are working with adventurers, not other champions. The same would apply in Coldharbour; just members of the Guilds working together with you, the only champion. There is no way to know whether, as players, they are also soldiers who fight in Cyrodiil, because, as characters in Coldharbour, they are on Guild business, and when we're on Guild business we kneel to no king or queen.

Not fighting for profit was a role-play statement, but also reflects my attitude to in-game gold. I have no idea how much gold I have, and don't really care. If I can't afford something, I don't try to specifically earn enough to buy it, I just carry on without it.

The reason why we don't have a cross faction PVE may be the servers, and if it is, we probably never will have, but that not contradict the fact that having hundred of players, soldiers, captains, centurians, warlords, etc. running dungeons or in a group with their enemies (people we killed in the PVP, everytime, sometimes few minutes before doing a dungeon...) while fighting the war (war which we are all engaged in the context), it's a lore break. Do you do RP and can't see that? Strange... I do RP in this game and the only characters I would accept this idea would be with the toons who never went to Cyrodiil.

ESO already broke the lore so many times (having a unique kind of vampire, the vegetation and climate in Cyrodiil, having hundreds of diferent emperors, etc., etc., etc.). Your signature has the UESP pages right? You know things like that are discussed there all the time (how ESO broke the lore in so many ways, making thousands of exceptions or filling in unusual ways blank piece of history...).

And when I said, a mercenary who fights for profit, gold, etc., I was questioning the players motivation in asking for this in PVE and not in PVP. And again, if you do RP, you know Fighters Guild (I was specific in that moment) have contracts and they have to be paid to fulfill these contracts... Read the "History of the Fighters Guild" or any definition in game for NPC's and see if their purpose is making nirn a better place.

I remain of the opinion that if the Alliance militaries allow their soldiers to join the Guilds, they then cannot object when those soldiers decide to work together with the enemy on Guild business. That's what the Guilds do, and if the Alliances had an issue with it, you wouldn't be able to join the Guilds once you'd joined the war. Beyond that, the war is only in Cyrodiil; outside of a battlefield, animosity may remain, but a soldier has no business killing other people outside of the warzone.

I'm actually quite content with how ESO fits in with the lore; they did a good job to address anything considered a "lore-break" with believable retcons.

What's that about not asking for it in PvP? You can already do it, there's no need to ask for something that you can already do. Cyrodiil is the only cross-faction area right now, and it has PvE content. It should be very easy to do cross-faction PvE with people from other alliances in Cyrodiil if you can restrain yourself from killing them.

nine9six

Yes

I voted yes, but only if you can opt-out of it and choose to only play with your 'side'.

Having the option would mean that people who don't care can have more fun, and without as much down-time. I don't see an issue with that.

Personally, unless I *never* get a group with my 'side', I'll opt-out and roll with my boys! But that shouldn't stop others from having fun.

Theosis

Yes

if I can be in the guild cross faction.. why not?

Xender

Yes

I think there is much more pros than cons for cross faction play

Jezriel

Yes

Back in the day in the first EverQuest, there were lots of in-world separations. Dark Elves were killed on sight in High Elf cities and vice versa. That never stopped people from being in guilds with whomever they wanted. You could even, in a lot of cases, raise or lower your esteem within the factions so you could go to towns that originally hated you. The game never decided what you can and can't do in the context of your own character.

If you wanted to play in a Dark-Elf only guild that treated the rest of the races like trash, it was cool. You could do that. If you didn't want to care how the NPCs felt about race and just wanted to hang out with the best and kill the toughest gods and monsters, that was fine, too.

To me the hand-holding dictation of who your character is and what his or her motivations are is ridiculous. The players can be trusted to chose their own path. Riding the lore like a rail or just punching the meanest thing you can find right in its ugly face should be the players' decision.

We all spend our free time in this world, we should be allowed to decide how.

Elsonso

Yes

.

Jezriel wrote: »

To me the hand-holding dictation of who your character is and what his or her motivations are is ridiculous. The players can be trusted to chose their own path. Riding the lore like a rail or just punching the meanest thing you can find right in its ugly face should be the players' decision.

We all spend our free time in this world, we should be allowed to decide how.

Fundamentally, I disagree.

We should be allowed to decide how, in the context of the game world. If we want to play across Alliances, then the game world and lore should actually be written in a way to allow it.

I would prefer if we were all playing the same game in the same world, and the player's free choice should be constrained by that. I am not in favor of just disregarding the game world and lore in order to satisfy player privilege.

I suggested in another thread a way that they could have done the Alliance War, if they were not so caught up with the idea of making an online version of the single player games where the player has to be routed down the path. All players should have a home Alliance, but be neutral, until they aren't, and all zones and quests should have been available to all neutral players. Neutral characters should have been able to visit any zone, even if they are instantly eaten by some local monster, quest together with other neutral players, and no player should ever be forced to join the Alliance. However, when the player decides, the could go to Cyrodiil and join their Alliance and then they are no longer neutral. They can still go to the enemy zones, loot, pillage, and even quest and interact with people there, but as they rise in Rank, this becomes progressively riskier.

But, the game is not made this way.

The only way I can see that it makes sense in the current game world for players to disregard Alliances is to do it after "Message Across Tamriel" or the end of the main quest. Make the "common" zones truly common and set the other Alliance players as allies outside of Cyrodiil. Before that time, it is segregated by Alliance. After that time, freedom to do as you please.

P.S. - And come up with a real 50+ leveling plan that does not involve Cadwell.

Thunder

Yes

Earelith wrote: »

I rather wait longer until I find a group than team up with the enemy It would break immersion for sure. Not worth it in my opinion.

Having pre-ordered the Imperial Edition, I can play any race with any alliance. Now it's something anyone can buy from the store. I don't see how cross faction could possible break immersion any more than it already is. If you could only play in one solitary faction as a scale face lizard freak, I would happily join an opposing faction so as never to see them again other than on the other side of my sword. If that were the case, I would wholeheartedly agree with you, it would break immersion.

That's just simply not the case at all though.

Yinmaigao

Yes

The "it will break immersion" argument is getting old and weak...

Does it break immersion every time Deadra attack the city and the guards cower in a corner helpless, when not 2 minutes earlier they curb-stomped someone for accidentally stealing an item laying in front of a vendor that moves around?

Does it break immersion when you are in Cyrodiil and a guildmate from the opposing faction is talking in guild chat?

Does it break immersion every time you go grind in your Vet10 zone?

sheesh....

Danikat

Yes

I don't understand the argument that it would break immersion either.

My hirelings send me messages detailing their travels between different factions zones, I can join guilds with halls in different zones who explained in detail (and sometimes quite forcefully) when I joined that they consider themselves neutral and can and do operate across faction boundaries and I can encounter merchants and travellers of any race in any city in the game.

But my character has to be a member of one faction just because when they dropped out the sky the first person who found them is a member?

That makes even less sense than if everyone in Skyrim had to side with the Stomcloaks simply because you're imprisoned with them at the start and accused of being an accomplice by the Imperials.

I have very little interest in Cyrodiil and PvP either for the mechanics or the lore and my characters are even less interested than me. If they could they'd ignore the war completely and refuse to help any faction, either in Cyrodiil or in their home province. But because that's how the game works I keep having to make excuses for myself to explain why they'd do something so totally out of character, because it's somehow more immersive?

Korah_Eaglecry

No

Xender wrote: »

Do you think ESO should offer cross faction dungeon access? It shouldn't have impact on pvp so I don't see any obstacles.

Zenimax if you wish you can sell it as DLC I will pay for it :P

No. Infact I cant stand the fact that theres cross Faction Guilds. At first it sounded good but when you start to think about going into Cyrodiil to fight for your faction it kind of becomes senseless when you realize another Guildie could be on the other side. It loses that immersion.

The Tamriel is at war. And it doesnt matter if youre delve and dungeon diving or toeing the line in Cyrodiil. Simple as that. Faction to faction youre at war.

Shunravi

Yes

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Xender wrote: »

Do you think ESO should offer cross faction dungeon access? It shouldn't have impact on pvp so I don't see any obstacles.

Zenimax if you wish you can sell it as DLC I will pay for it :P

No. Infact I cant stand the fact that theres cross Faction Guilds. At first it sounded good but when you start to think about going into Cyrodiil to fight for your faction it kind of becomes senseless when you realize another Guildie could be on the other side. It loses that immersion.

The Tamriel is at war. And it doesnt matter if youre delve and dungeon diving or toeing the line in Cyrodiil. Simple as that. Faction to faction youre at war.

Prime example for the argument 'separation of pve and pvp'.