"The sky is falling!"

Attorneyatlawl

As a long-time player of ESO having played since July of 2013 in beta and live, I'm rather disappointed and very concerned as to the direction the "Crown Store" real-money cash shop is taking after the conversion to "Buy To Play" from "all-included premium subscription service".

The typical response from people not looking ahead?

Ley wrote: »

Oh yea because motifs are clearly going to appeal to that p2w crowd. Daedric gear is know to give you the ability to "pwn all noobs."

I'm not saying no one will buy them but to assume that so many people will fork out big bucks for them, resulting in the ruin of the motif economy, is a bit over presumptuous.

Ley wrote: »

Zenimax said they would not offer p2w items in the crown shop and I'm inclined to take their word for it, until they give me a reason not to. A real reason, not paranoid speculations. If they do introduce things that I don't approve of, and it bothers me enough, I'll just quit. Until that time, I'll continue to support them.

Think maybe you're over reacting a little bit?
Reminds me of my 5th grade teacher (back in the 90's) who saw me scribbling on the desk and basically told me that scribbling on the desk lead to hard drugs and murder.

If you agree with those kinds of posts, you're missing the point unfortunately.




The conversation about "pay to win" isn't specifically about any one item being on the cash shop, particularly those that fall into a gray area, although they do cumulatively have a large impact over time themselves. It's about the repetitive trend that occurs in any MMO game that's gone buy-to-play and the slide into pay-to-win, which is happening more quickly in ESO than I've seen in ones before even. This same pattern has occurred in basically every other game that went b2p or f2p. "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

Champion point xp potions coming to the Crown Store cash shop soon (a ZOS post today re-confirmed they're incoming shortly) and buying (surely at some time in the near-mid future given that we've already gone from "convenience and vanity items" to "character power gains, skill respecs that normally are expensive in gold, and valuable rare cosmetics" on the store in a few short weeks) gear sets, however, over the course of a couple of months or several months onward, creates a giant gap between people shelling out constantly to buy those xp pots and maintain their big xp boost. (Right now it would be say 100 points vs. 160 earned, not earth-shattering... but once you're talking about people having 1000 points needing to fight against those with 1600, it is, and that would happen within the span of months), directly increasing characters' power and knocking out the integrity of any gameplay.

Instead of thinking "Wow, that guy's a beast!" in pvp, you just wonder if he used xp pots and is running with several hundred extra champion levels as a result, and maybe he bought up that cool-looking gear too, which makes earning it from gameplay as originally designed hollow. Oh, and that leaderboard top rank that we've got for Sanctum Ophidia in DC (NA)? With those pots and other inevitable boosts, you can't really care much about achieving much of anything since you can buy such huge advantages, making that meaningless too. And if you aren't playing the game to have fun and do anything worthwhile being an online game with other people, why even play? Just open a Skype window instead.

How many people have shelled out stacks of cash in other pay to win setups as the games sunk so they could "pwn noobs"? Many. Why would that be different here? I knew people in my brief time in Archeage who had dumped hundreds of bucks, a couple plunking out thousands, so they could have the ultimate gear and butcher people for fun until everyone quit after they finally had the concept of pay to win's effect dawn on them. You know that adage...

Aside from the obvious point that a company is going to do what makes them money (which is absolutely fine, that's basically the primary reason most of them exist! It's called capitalism), and if their way of making money is by selling power they will continue to ramp that up to maximize profits... it's hardly like Zenimax Online has stuck to most previous claims of what they will or won't do. Someone else wrote this recap recently:

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

To those defending it. Its not that we don't understand that they need money. We get that which is why we bought the game and paid the subscription. And it's not sbout "Just ignoring it" or any other stupid ass thing you come up with to deal with it. Some people are just tired of the crap

“We feel pretty strongly about the support we’re going to have for the game and what you’re going to get for those dollars […] not here’s a new sword or here’s a funny hat–but content that is real and significant and it feels like regular and consistent DLC releases.

Where was the significant DLC releases? The one half ass zone that people hated?

[A free-to-play game] just seems like a lesser game, and we’re not going to make a lesser game that might be more palatable […] we want to do the version that we think is the best game and the coolest experience. And that means putting a lot of people and a lot of content creators towards having stuff that comes our regularly; every four weeks, five weeks, six weeks. Big new stuff that you want to do.” -Pete Hines

B2P is not much different and now its the lesser game

"The reason why we don’t need F2P is we have a huge IP behind this. We’re not that worried about getting people in the door."- Matt Firor



The Elder Scrolls Online Will be 'Lag-Free' at Launch, Promises Bethesda-http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/20879/article/the-elder-scrolls-online-will-be-leg-free-at-launch-promises-bethesda/

Unfortunately launch was less laggy but not lag free

Will the cash shop be intrusive? I really like the minimal UI you guys have going on in the game, and I would totally hate to have a large spinning dollar/septim/crown/whatever telling me to "BUY ALL THE STUFF", especially if I am a current subscriber.

The crown store is not intended to be intrusive. We do not direct the player to it or pop it up in front of you when you run out of potions.

Its just there when you want it. - AMA reddit

Popping up advertisement is intrusive. No matter which way you defend it popping up crap in your face is intrusive plain and bloody simple

Sage emphasized that ZeniMax built ESO with the goal to have 200 players on the screen at once without performance issues or culling. He told me that testing on minimum spec machines has proven that it can be done and that ZeniMax is extremely focused on metrics and getting this right. Given studio head Matt Firor's Dark Age of Camelot pedigree, it's easy to see the source of that confidence.

Have you ever been able to have 200 people on screen? Even at launch there wasn't 200 people on screen

Sage assuaged most of my fears, however, when he mentioned that once you hit level 50 and decide to play in another alliance's areas, you'll be able to play with friends in that faction. So at the endgame, things begin to open up and you can group up, chat, and run dungeons with players of other factions. The one area where things remain separate is, of course, the Alliance War in Cyrodiil.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Unless players put their collective feet down now and make it clear this product strategy change is unacceptable, we'll be there soon, with Elder Scrolls Online joining the long list of "free/buy to play" games that cashed out quick and were left to pass on in maintenance mode. Thanks for reading.

Parrotbrain

Pretty much wholeheartedly agree with this post. A lot of the things that we were told as players initially were contradicted, I personally feel that the community has no reason to put trust into anything that we are told by the developers anymore. This game still has a lot of potential, but I think it is taking the wrong path and once it reaches the point of no return it will be too late to rectify any damage that has been done.

I think that releasing it for console might be the biggest mistake, as the developers/ designers would have more time to create better quality, stable content if the PC platform was the only one being focused on. Once the cash shop becomes a cash cow selling items that should actually be earned through spending time playing the game, then it will be too late. It would be better instead for them to focus on new content DLCs/quests/dungeons/trials, and make that the focus of the cash shop, where players can actually spend time playing through new content and earning their prestige instead of buying it with daddy's credit card.

Sallington

I love the original statements from ZOS basically showing them doing the opposite of everything they said when they were first selling the game to us.

The worst part is the "Who cares?" mindset of most of the player base. That's why most companies today get away with this type of BS. They go little by little, and people just mindlessly consume it.

Dennizon

One big problem with PtW scenarios is that it drives off a certain part of the community that make games like this more fun. If you are left with elitists and people who pay rl money to get instant gratification the community as a whole is hollowed out. I don't think this game has reached the point of no return yet, but it doesn't appear to be headed down a path currently either.

ChampionSheWolf

Sorry OP, you are missing the point by a large margin especially since you are confusing Buy to Play with Free to Play. Furthermore, in addition to the fact you are missing the point, another major, fundamental point the majority of gamers miss by an incredibly huge margin, it takes money to run these games. As much as many gamers love to believe that MMOs run on happy thoughts and puppy love, they don't. They have bills to pay, salaries to pay, new hardware, training their employees, training new hires, updating software programs, all these things costs. And if there is no money coming in, guess what; there are no new updates that will happen.

Rook_Master

This was a nice read.

I agree with pretty much everything being said here.

XP Potions have the potential to stratify the player base over the long-term into different categories based on how many CP they have. This has already started, with reports of some people that can play 24/7 for whatever reasons already having 200+ CP.

If you think someone having hundreds more CP than you won't make a difference, then keep dreaming.

Kalman

c0rp

Sorry...just because "this is what happened to another game/s when they went b2p", I dont subscribe to the "it must happen here too, the sky is falling" campaign. Zos will have my trust until they do something to prove otherwise. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I have no issues with anything they have done "store wise".

Aett_Thorn

c0rp wrote: »

Sorry...just because "this is what happened to another game/s when they went b2p", I dont subscribe to the "it must happen here too, the sky is falling" campaign.

It's been said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

If X led to Y led to Z is many other games, why shouldn't we expect the same thing here?

Edit- mis-attributed the insanity thing to Einstein.

Sallington

ChampionSheWolf wrote: »

Sorry OP, you are missing the point by a large margin especially since you are confusing Buy to Play with Free to Play. Furthermore, in addition to the fact you are missing the point, another major, fundamental point the majority of gamers miss by an incredibly huge margin, it takes money to run these games. As much as many gamers love to believe that MMOs run on happy thoughts and puppy love, they don't. They have bills to pay, salaries to pay, new hardware, training their employees, training new hires, updating software programs, all these things costs. And if there is no money coming in, guess what; there are no new updates that will happen.

If only there was a business model where people could subscribe to the game to finance further game development.

I guess I'm just a dreamer.

I'm guessing it's just easier to design new mounts to nickle and dime people with then actually develop new content.

SteveCampsOut

Ouch! I've been beaned by motif's! How'd they get in the sky like that?

Athas24

Kalman wrote: »

I was told the sky was falling and was disappointed until I saw this. Thank you.

c0rp

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

Sorry...just because "this is what happened to another game/s when they went b2p", I dont subscribe to the "it must happen here too, the sky is falling" campaign.

Einstein said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

If X led to Y led to Z is many other games, why shouldn't we expect the same thing here?

No. Just because X company makes a product that is ***, doesn't mean that Y company is going to do the same thing to that same product. Y company will just earn my business until they prove otherwise.

Attorneyatlawl

ChampionSheWolf wrote: »

Sorry OP, you are missing the point by a large margin especially since you are confusing Buy to Play with Free to Play. Furthermore, in addition to the fact you are missing the point, another major, fundamental point the majority of gamers miss by an incredibly huge margin, it takes money to run these games. As much as many gamers love to believe that MMOs run on happy thoughts and puppy love, they don't. They have bills to pay, salaries to pay, new hardware, training their employees, training new hires, updating software programs, all these things costs. And if there is no money coming in, guess what; there are no new updates that will happen.

Buy to Play and Free To Play are the same thing other than a small one-time fee up front, so there is no confusion here . And in case you missed the very first line of my post...

"As a long-time player of ESO having played since July of 2013 in beta and live, I'm rather disappointed and very concerned as to the direction the "Crown Store" real-money cash shop is taking after the conversion to "Buy To Play" from "all-included premium subscription service"."

In other words, I would have gladly continued to pay the subscription for years to come as a premium service every month. With the change to a one-time fee and the crown store shifting over to pay to win, instead, I imagine my stay will be rather short at this point, leaving them with less money instead .

A successful f2p/b2p model works with strictly cosmetics (not ones earnable in game), fun fluff like firework consumables, and introducing new content, zones, quests, etc. to expand the gameplay.

A poor cash shop model sells what you normally earn through playing the game, introducing more and more of it as sales slow, all while lowering the price throughout the process to entice more people to bite until the community dies off and the game sees no new further content, remaining in maintenance mode for a small passive income from people who randomly check it out.

It's quite clear that ZOS has chosen the "poor cash shop" model.

Thymos

Aett_Thorn wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

Sorry...just because "this is what happened to another game/s when they went b2p", I dont subscribe to the "it must happen here too, the sky is falling" campaign.

Einstein said that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

If X led to Y led to Z is many other games, why shouldn't we expect the same thing here?

Uh no he didn't say that.

I'm sorry, but that's one of those fake quotes that the internet got you to believe.

Smiteye

Sallington wrote: »

ChampionSheWolf wrote: »

Sorry OP, you are missing the point by a large margin especially since you are confusing Buy to Play with Free to Play. Furthermore, in addition to the fact you are missing the point, another major, fundamental point the majority of gamers miss by an incredibly huge margin, it takes money to run these games. As much as many gamers love to believe that MMOs run on happy thoughts and puppy love, they don't. They have bills to pay, salaries to pay, new hardware, training their employees, training new hires, updating software programs, all these things costs. And if there is no money coming in, guess what; there are no new updates that will happen.

If only there was a business model where people could subscribe to the game to finance further game development.

I guess I'm just a dreamer.

I'm guessing it's just easier to design new mounts to nickle and dime people with then actually develop new content.

I know right!? Shame there is no way to just bill people each month or something...

c0rp wrote: »

Sorry...just because "this is what happened to another game/s when they went b2p", I dont subscribe to the "it must happen here too, the sky is falling" campaign. Zos will have my trust until they do something to prove otherwise. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. I have no issues with anything they have done "store wise".

Godwin's Law. That same logic (on a much more globally important level) was used in the leadup to world war ii... "it wont happen again, just because it's happened a bunch of times already one after the next! We don't need to worry..."

Kalman

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Buy to Play and Free To Play are the same thing other than a small one-time fee up front

You forget that the small one-time fee deters a huge portion of bad player base, so it is not near the same.

TD5160_ESO

Man, nothing but people complaining about nothing important on this board. It's a game. If you don't like what the devs are doing, leave. It's all in the Terms of Use and the EULA. They have the right to change the game at any time to do whatever they want. Complain all you want, but if they are set on it, they will do it.

A sad truth is that these forums here? They are a vocal minority of the amount of players that actually play the game. A lot of players don't even know about the forums. Especially since they are "invite only" and most players just delete that email.

For every player threatening to quite, and petition and what not, there are 20 more that just don't care. Myself included.

Sallington

TD5160_ESO wrote: »

Man, nothing but people complaining about nothing important on this board. It's a game. If you don't like what the devs are doing, leave. It's all in the Terms of Use and the EULA. They have the right to change the game at any time to do whatever they want. Complain all you want, but if they are set on it, they will do it.

A sad truth is that these forums here? They are a vocal minority of the amount of players that actually play the game. A lot of players don't even know about the forums. Especially since they are "invite only" and most players just delete that email.

For every player threatening to quite, and petition and what not, there are 20 more that just don't care. Myself included.

God forbid I want to voice my opinion of what they are doing to my favorite video game franchise.

I've already quit/unsubbed as soon as I heard about the cash shop, and that's looking like a better decision every day. I just come here some times during work to talk about it.

Zathras

ChampionSheWolf wrote: »

Sorry OP, you are missing the point by a large margin especially since you are confusing Buy to Play with Free to Play. Furthermore, in addition to the fact you are missing the point, another major, fundamental point the majority of gamers miss by an incredibly huge margin, it takes money to run these games. As much as many gamers love to believe that MMOs run on happy thoughts and puppy love, they don't. They have bills to pay, salaries to pay, new hardware, training their employees, training new hires, updating software programs, all these things costs. And if there is no money coming in, guess what; there are no new updates that will happen.

Sorry, kitten, it is you who missed the point. The only difference between B2P and F2P is a narrow financial margin at entry. Given all the recent sales, that barrier is fairly trivial. After you get through that gate, you have all the trimmings that a normal F2P game offers, including apologists like yourself.

Also, please avoid over-generalizing when attempting to make a "major, fundamental point". Exaggerations will only weaken a watery position.

Everyone here is fully aware that ZOS needs to make money. If you can find and quote the people, the "majority of gamers (that are) miss(ing) it by an incredibly huge margin", please supply your data. Otherwise, I think you'll find that isn't even the discussion in this particular thread.

To clarify, people aren't discussing that ZOS needs to make money; they are discussing how they are trying to make money. That is the issue at hand.

Psychobunni

@Attorneyatlawl Rose colored glasses. Like when the crown shop spam happened and despite multiple people seeing it, some refusing to believe it without screenshots. Or months ago "ESO is never going F2P/B2P". etc/etc/etc

Whether its because someone is simply ignorant of having watched the train wreck before, just plain not wanting to accept it, or too in love at the moment to see it...the result is the same.

I don't necessarily agree on some p2w items, however you are right in that its like a snowball rolling down a mountain picking up more and more snow as it goes and the only thing standing between that avalanche is the players and how much we accept.

Cazic

Is subscribing to ESO Plus considered pay to win, then? The XP bonus we get from that is not much different than buying XP potions.

xMovingTarget

I will not sub anymore and wont buy crowns. The store completely develops in the bad way. Right now we can still change it. By not buying crowns etc. First motifs, then maybe crafting boosters (yellow), then maybe craft gearsets etc etc.

Whoever loves this game shouldnt support this. Buying this stuff (if its not cosmetics) just helps getting the game worse and worse.

I will not support it! Listen ZoS!

I will gladly sub again without a thought if the store is cosmetics only. Or stuff like name change etc. But ingame items? Hell no..

Sallington

Psychobunni wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl Rose colored glasses. Like when the crown shop spam happened and despite multiple people seeing it, some refusing to believe it without screenshots. Or months ago "ESO is never going F2P/B2P". etc/etc/etc

Whether its because someone is simply ignorant of having watched the train wreck before, just plain not wanting to accept it, or too in love at the moment to see it...the result is the same.

I don't necessarily agree on some p2w items, however you are right in that its like a snowball rolling down a mountain picking up more and more snow as it goes and the only thing standing between that avalanche is the players and how much we accept.

I was one of those "ESO will never go B2P/F2P" people, and it makes me sick that I supported them so wholeheartedly.

Circuitous

I don't mind the common motifs being sold, but the purples and golds left a bad taste in my mouth, even at the high price. Then I noticed they only require rank 1 in any crafting discipline. Formally registering my discontent with this.

Rare drops shouldn't be sold in the crown store, period. Rare drops that also circumvent their own requirements are a definite no-no.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Thank you for this post.

KhajitFurTrader

For as long as I'm having fun with the game, I will stay subbed, because it's the best deal for me. Frankly, I don't care what others think the Crown Store is or may be some day. I don't care whether others are trying to freeload, or throw their money at the game, or do whatever they think benefits them most for whatever reason they may have. Others do not play any role whatsoever in my having fun with the game.

The one thing that aggravates doomsayers the most is people not listening to them and still having their fun regardless. If, by chance, some sort of catastrophe really happens one day, at least those people have had their fun up until then, while the doomsayers have been worried all the time!

Ojustaboo

ChampionSheWolf wrote: »

Sorry OP, you are missing the point by a large margin especially since you are confusing Buy to Play with Free to Play. Furthermore, in addition to the fact you are missing the point, another major, fundamental point the majority of gamers miss by an incredibly huge margin, it takes money to run these games. As much as many gamers love to believe that MMOs run on happy thoughts and puppy love, they don't. They have bills to pay, salaries to pay, new hardware, training their employees, training new hires, updating software programs, all these things costs. And if there is no money coming in, guess what; there are no new updates that will happen.

I'm going to sit on the fence and agree with both you and the OP

Of course a game needs to make money, a game needs to recoup it's development costs etc.

However, for me it's the fact that I feel like "here we go again".

When Lotro announced it was going F2P with it's Turbine Point store, at the time, I thought it a good idea, subs had dropped, they made all these promises on what wouldn't be in the store, how the money would allow for regular expansions etc etc etc (and you can replace Lotro for virtually any cash shop MMO out there)

I have never invested so much time (or money) in a game as I did in Lotro, I loved it and am a huge Tolkien fan. But the direction it took within a few months of it's cash shop, well they basically killed the game, Sure it's still surviving but 95% of the original players that invested years have gone, all that''s left are people who love walking around in Tolkien s world, role players, and people who I suppose I would describe as facebook gamers

Let me be clear, I don't mind casual players at all, I consider my self casual with a lot of time on my hands. I did raid in Lotro but only after a couple of years, and then only a couple of times a week, the rest I just loved the time leveling alts, getting achievements and being with my guild.

But, Lotro has become so dumbed down, you could start a new character tonight, just use one random skill and very rarely if ever die. When I started playing, getting the undieing achievement took skill, now it's meaningless.

I personally sort of don't mind whats in a cash shop, providing it's available in game some how or is purely 100% cosmetic. If someone wants to pay for an end level character, it wont take away from me, my knowledge and enjoyment that I got there through my own perseverance

But, and its a big but, Turbine realised how many people were willing to spend vast sums of money on store items and it was literally a cash cow for them. Then the suits upstairs had a think and came to the obvious conclusion. Why spend time and a lot of money making new raids, dungeons, big expansions etc when for a fraction of that cost they could get more money from selling stuff in the store.

So Turbine ignored the majority of the player base that had supported them over the years, I personally think they aim it at the sort of player that will play for 6 months and then move on, making it mega easy for a new player to level up, making it next to impossible to die, knowing that a sizable percentage of these players will spend spend spend in the store.

End result, a game I once loved, I rarely play anymore, occasionally I log in to chat to a friend who is on a RP server, but that is all.

I was waiting for TESO since before it was even announced, I dreamt of it in the years I was playing Morrowind. When I got invited to beta, one of my first comments was how nice it is to find a game that while most is quite easy, still has some hard challenges in it. It was the mages and fighters guilds quests that did it for me, they were superb. Hard yes, when you didn't know what you were doing, very very very hard, but the forums were full of tips and you could always come back a few levels higher if you were still stuck.

It was those two quests that made me think TESO would be my new long term home.

But what happened, some people said it was too hard and they nerfed them more than once so that now there's no skill at all.

Zenimax originally said/implied this would never go b2p/f2p and I'm sure I remember them saying they would rather close the game down than it become like the other cash shop games.

Of course they need to make money but most of my guild stopped playing last year simply due to bugs and PvP lag. Most are back now it's free to see how things have improved and sadly there's still PvP lag, there's still lag swapping weapons etc.

It all depends what they want to do and that is where I (and many others) have our concerns. If they want to make the most money they can then the game is doomed, I'll state that as fact for the simple reason, the way to achieve this is to aim your game at the sort of people Lotro aimed their game at.

Zenimax could have sat down years ago, said "we want to make a game that makes us wads of money each month, how do we do it" and come up with the next Candy Crush. But they made the Elder Scrolls Online instead.

It was hyped to the extreme, open betas a few weeks before release with uncompletable quests (many that made it into initial release), and wile they have improved somewhat, after release the communication from them was awful, that is partly what lost them so many players.

They needed to ask themselves how many players they expected long term, was it a realistic amount, and if so, why haven't they got them.

I personally don't think it's the sub that put people off, I suspect it was more like me and my guild that would have been happy to pay each month if PvP worked and we didn't get kicked to desktop. With us, one after another would type in chat they are having too much lag or too many disconnects and are quitting for the evening to play something else, and of course we are reluctant to pay a sub when that's happening.

PvP would be unplayable for about 2 weeks after an update, they would finally fix it, update a few weeks later and it would break again.


My and many other peoples worries are what is the game going to become. We have heard it so many many times before in other games.

When the bean counters see the money coming in to the crown store and the devs want to spend 6 months working on the next area, from the bean counters point of view, why spend time and money on a new area when we could just design a few more things for the store instead and make twice as much money. And of course it's obvious why they think that.

And it doesn't matter how much passion devs have for their games, if the guys upstairs wont let them do what they want, their hands are tied.

So what happens next, people want to play for a couple of hrs a week and get to level 50 asap, and as these people buy from the store, so the game is dumbed down to keep these people spending all the money here.

End result, Zenimax is making the money but TESO isn't the game it once was (or was meant to be)

I hope more than anything that I am proven completely wrong, nothing would please me more

Khaldar

It must suck to be soooo passionate OP about something you have very little to no control over. I'd advise finding something outside of the internet and maybe in RL that you can put all this excess energy into. You'll probably get a lot more satisfaction out of realizing it is a lot easier to control things in your own life than on a message board.

With that said, ZOS is a "for profit" business. When is the last time you were given a free tank of gas, food, clothing, etc? If we want content, ZOS needs money. Not everyone with deep pockets wants pets... lol. Once ZOS finds what makes them money without going P2W, then I'm sure we can continue on our way with content. (And I am not sure you know what TRUE p2w is... lol)

Until then I'm sure some philanthropist is out there making a game for you and all the people who don't want to pay for anything extra. I'm sure that game has no bugs. I'm sure that game has tons of content too. I'm sure that it is full of rainbows and gumdrops, too.

Didgerion

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

As a long-time player of ESO having played since July of 2013 in beta and live, I'm rather disappointed and very concerned as to the direction the "Crown Store" real-money cash shop is taking after the conversion to "Buy To Play" from "all-included premium subscription service".

While I understand your frustrations I disagree with this post.

ESO is a business - it has to be profitable or it shuts down - as simple as that.

I think ZOS did its best to keep the old model running, they even had to fire some personnel in order to lower the costs.

In my opinion the community is the one who failed ZOS, and ZOS had to change ESO infrastructure to adapt to the reality.

The community of ES franchise is really big and the ESO business plan was created with that in mind.
But what did community do?
Well here is what it did:
Some of players said that they are not playing ESO till it goes subscription free.
Other players had quit at the first inconvenience saying that they are not renewing the subscription till its fixed.
Some players (including myself) ceased the subscription because of the lack of time.
Other players believed the unbiased bad reviews (like the Angry Joe’s one)
And so on…

Just few of the community players (you as example) stayed loyal to ZOS and paid the sub regularly.
But unfortunately that was not enough.


Now the game is Free to play with a crown store in it and the community is the one to blame here(myself included).

Ojustaboo

TD5160_ESO wrote: »

Man, nothing but people complaining about nothing important on this board. It's a game. If you don't like what the devs are doing, leave. It's all in the Terms of Use and the EULA. They have the right to change the game at any time to do whatever they want. Complain all you want, but if they are set on it, they will do it.

A sad truth is that these forums here? They are a vocal minority of the amount of players that actually play the game. A lot of players don't even know about the forums. Especially since they are "invite only" and most players just delete that email.

For every player threatening to quite, and petition and what not, there are 20 more that just don't care. Myself included.

You can say that about every single mmo ever. But usually such forums have people with genuine concerns voicing them, they might be a minority of overall players, but they are usually pretty representative of a pretty large group.

You also have large groups (again represented by minorities on the forums) that have different ideas for the game, one wanting group content, one wanting more solo, one wanting mega hard raids, but again all these are usually representative of large amount of players

And you have the group that are happy with the way things are, and again they are just as a minority of overall players as anyone else posting.

There is a subset of this last group though, ones that won't hear any complaint no matter how valid, wont hear any worries etc without making some sort of comment.

I often wonder about this group as even if I'm 100% loving a game, people that have worries or dislikes are entitled to post why and I enjoy reading their posits and sometimes constructively discussing their ideas/fears.