How do you feel about the recent increase to siege damage?

Cody

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

skarvika wrote: »

I feel very bad about it, and here's a screenshot that shows why:

And there are plenty more around us, but I didn't want to post a huge screenshot. 12+ VRs one-shotted. We pretty much gave up and stopped PVPing at this point. That's not much fun...not for us, at least...and I assume probably not for our enemies either, because PVP is boring if you've got nobody to play against.

so all 12 VRs could not avoid a red circle?

not the games fault:/

Jauriel

Siege damage needed an increase, but not nearly this much

Yes it is the games fault when both enemy and friendly circles are RED.

Stop saying "avoid the red circle", Cody. That line is growing mold at this point. We have all proven it goes beyond that.

Cody

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

Jauriel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

I feel very bad about it, and here's a screenshot that shows why:

And there are plenty more around us, but I didn't want to post a huge screenshot. 12+ VRs one-shotted. We pretty much gave up and stopped PVPing at this point. That's not much fun...not for us, at least...and I assume probably not for our enemies either, because PVP is boring if you've got nobody to play against.

And now ask those people dead on the ground what a shield is, if they pre-cast it/them before every engagement, if they re-apply it/them when needed, if they spent attribute and champoint points in health, if they use gear bonus that increase health, if they have a morph of purge or siege shield on their bar, if they have any self heal ability.

Fricking come on. Stop with the elitism. Especially when you yourself voted for it to be tamed down. If 3 fire siege all aim at you it doesn't matter how many purges you hit and shields you have or how many health points Ya got. Just stop.

move out of the way!!!!

its not elitism! its you using common sense! if you see a red circle, MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.
/sigh

Jauriel

Siege damage needed an increase, but not nearly this much

Cody wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

I feel very bad about it, and here's a screenshot that shows why:

And there are plenty more around us, but I didn't want to post a huge screenshot. 12+ VRs one-shotted. We pretty much gave up and stopped PVPing at this point. That's not much fun...not for us, at least...and I assume probably not for our enemies either, because PVP is boring if you've got nobody to play against.

And now ask those people dead on the ground what a shield is, if they pre-cast it/them before every engagement, if they re-apply it/them when needed, if they spent attribute and champoint points in health, if they use gear bonus that increase health, if they have a morph of purge or siege shield on their bar, if they have any self heal ability.

Fricking come on. Stop with the elitism. Especially when you yourself voted for it to be tamed down. If 3 fire siege all aim at you it doesn't matter how many purges you hit and shields you have or how many health points Ya got. Just stop.

move out of the way!!!!

its not elitism! its you using common sense! if you see a red circle, MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.
/sigh

So a pvp game is supposed to be 75% rolling and dodging ambiguous red circles? If they keep it this way I am gone and so are many others. This just isn't fun anymore. You may like this duck em and weave and duck and bob gameplay but it lacks real strategy and forethought. It's all beefy overkill over the top siege warfare now with too much emphasis on surviving incoming missiles. I guess if you like that sort of dumbed down, brainless (all mere reactionary and reflexive) experience then have at it, champ! Just stop trying to convince those of us who don't like it that we somehow must suck as players because we don't enjoy it.

Tripe

Siege damage needed an increase, but not nearly this much

I'd like to hear if people think this is fun or not.

For me, I'm seeing what could have been fun fights turned into people just setting up siege. Sometimes it's either be sieged or set up siege and stand there playing whack-a-mole. Other times, it's run around and kill everyone on their siege because they refuse to get off of their precious siege equipment even though they're dying.

Yesterday, myself and 1 other person are fighting 6 AD. It was turning into a fun fight., We would have most likely lost, but it would have been fun while it lasted. Instead of a 2 on 6, we end up in a 2v4 and 2 siege.

Some people are doing what I can only describe as corner camping. Sure you can root them out, but isn't this why they got rid of ground oils?

I don't even want to describe some of the cheesy ways I've seen siege employed, because I don't want to see them used more often. It just isn't fun. Unfortunately, It's fight fire with fire.....ballista.

Yesterday felt like one of the most dull and boring days I've spent in cyrodil. People just fire siege at each other and don't engage. *Shakes head, stares at floor during 1v1 fire treb match.

Lets see how today goes.

frozywozy

Good change, but I'd like to see siege damaged reduced a tiny bit

krim wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

I feel very bad about it, and here's a screenshot that shows why:

And there are plenty more around us, but I didn't want to post a huge screenshot. 12+ VRs one-shotted. We pretty much gave up and stopped PVPing at this point. That's not much fun...not for us, at least...and I assume probably not for our enemies either, because PVP is boring if you've got nobody to play against.

And now ask those people dead on the ground what a shield is, if they pre-cast it/them before every engagement, if they re-apply it/them when needed, if they spent attribute and champoint points in health, if they use gear bonus that increase health, if they have a morph of purge or siege shield on their bar, if they have any self heal ability.

Fricking come on. Stop with the elitism. Especially when you yourself voted for it to be tamed down. If 3 fire siege all aim at you it doesn't matter how many purges you hit and shields you have or how many health points Ya got. Just stop.

If they let 3 players deployed 3 fire sieges aiming at them and they decided to stay stacked right in front of it, that my friend is a poor judgement and reaction time. Keep in mind that fire trebs are not working as intented at the moment. The dots apply instantly and I'm pretty sure it is going to get hotfixed pretty soon so people who spec and gear properly won't get one shotted anymore.

Btw, the only reason why I voted to decrease the siege damage a bit is to be a fair dealer and give the credit to people who aren't happy about it. I personally think that siege damage is perfectly fine as it is.

"Let"? As in "allow"? I think most people head into battle and do their best. I see no reason to ridicule and condescendingly insult people who are dying by the masses to siege out there. And oops I am sorry but when I am engaged in battle I can't see all things at all times and neither can you. I think dying to 3 hits from 3 different ballistas is excessive and ruining game play. The siege is being way way overused. Nobody is field fighting anymore pvp style. There are rows of siege vs rows of siege and not just on choke points and keeps. As many have said this is sVs now. Not pvp. And for many it sucks. Should we all just not voice our opinion?

This was never intented to be PvP, this is AvAvA and it's been said multiple times. Siege does and should give a major advantage to people using them. What you are looking for is a battleground/arena type of environnement and we're not there yet. We have given times and times again the tools to counter sieges in the dozens and dozens of thread that have been made the past week, if you are still clueless about how to counter them, it means you refuse to adapt to it and you want it to go the way you sit it fit.

I am not clueless about anything. Just not enjoying it. I'm not a ***. I understand the dynamics and how to combat the siege damage. Just not WANTING to see siege everywhere at all times. What is there about this you're not understanding? It has nothing to do with skill or effort or understanding. And I am not alone. No need to try to continuously make it an opportunity to insult the knowledge and abilities of others.

I'm not seeing any constructive argument in what you just said other than "I want things to go the way I want it to be"

How different is that from the bad/bow users saying they should be able to play the way they want pre 1.6. You wouldnt know because all you do is zerg, and if there ever was that one time where you werent with your zerg you got owned.

All I do is zerg? Ok lol. whatever floats your boat.

@Jauriel - I did the mistake to quote one of your post, won't do that again.

krim

Great change, but I'd like to see siege damage bumped up even more!

Tripe wrote: »

I'd like to hear if people think this is fun or not.

For me, I'm seeing what could have been fun fights turned into people just setting up siege. Sometimes it's either be sieged or set up siege and stand there playing whack-a-mole. Other times, it's run around and kill everyone on their siege because they refuse to get off of their precious siege equipment even though they're dying.

Yesterday, myself and 1 other person are fighting 6 AD. It was turning into a fun fight., We would have most likely lost, but it would have been fun while it lasted. Instead of a 2 on 6, we end up in a 2v4 and 2 siege.

Some people are doing what I can only describe as corner camping. Sure you can root them out, but isn't this why they got rid of ground oils?

I don't even want to describe some of the cheesy ways I've seen siege employed, because I don't want to see them used more often. It just isn't fun. Unfortunately, It's fight fire with fire.....ballista.

Yesterday felt like one of the most dull and boring days I've spent in cyrodil. People just fire siege at each other and don't engage. *Shakes head, stares at floor during 1v1 fire treb match.

Lets see how today goes.

I just show up to fights and put up siege. How you like my tactics

Jauriel

Siege damage needed an increase, but not nearly this much

Tripe wrote: »

I'd like to hear if people think this is fun or not.

For me, I'm seeing what could have been fun fights turned into people just setting up siege. Sometimes it's either be sieged or set up siege and stand there playing whack-a-mole. Other times, it's run around and kill everyone on their siege because they refuse to get off of their precious siege equipment even though they're dying.

Yesterday, myself and 1 other person are fighting 6 AD. It was turning into a fun fight., We would have most likely lost, but it would have been fun while it lasted. Instead of a 2 on 6, we end up in a 2v4 and 2 siege.

Some people are doing what I can only describe as corner camping. Sure you can root them out, but isn't this why they got rid of ground oils?

I don't even want to describe some of the cheesy ways I've seen siege employed, because I don't want to see them used more often. It just isn't fun. Unfortunately, It's fight fire with fire.....ballista.

Yesterday felt like one of the most dull and boring days I've spent in cyrodil. People just fire siege at each other and don't engage. *Shakes head, stares at floor during 1v1 fire treb match.

Lets see how today goes.

Yep. It sucks, it's lame. It has robbed the fun out of pvp for me. And honestly they should have been able to predict it would turn out this way if they made siege the deadliest "skill".

GorraShatan

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

I've found the big keeps' fights pretty fun. There were a few great fights defending Farragut from EP the other day. Instead of one big zerg pouring in an either wiping or overwhelming everyone, it was 20+ minutes of pure chaos, with little fights spread out around the keep is people tried to flank each other. There were a handful of fire ballistas up, and you would have to be smart about how you approached them, but it they weren't game breaking or anything either. Dunno how well this is working in smaller keeps though, with simpler layouts and fewer obstructions.

Efficient

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

anyone who voted for less is wrong.

Jauriel wrote: »

Tripe wrote: »

I'd like to hear if people think this is fun or not.

For me, I'm seeing what could have been fun fights turned into people just setting up siege. Sometimes it's either be sieged or set up siege and stand there playing whack-a-mole. Other times, it's run around and kill everyone on their siege because they refuse to get off of their precious siege equipment even though they're dying.

Yesterday, myself and 1 other person are fighting 6 AD. It was turning into a fun fight., We would have most likely lost, but it would have been fun while it lasted. Instead of a 2 on 6, we end up in a 2v4 and 2 siege.

Some people are doing what I can only describe as corner camping. Sure you can root them out, but isn't this why they got rid of ground oils?

I don't even want to describe some of the cheesy ways I've seen siege employed, because I don't want to see them used more often. It just isn't fun. Unfortunately, It's fight fire with fire.....ballista.

Yesterday felt like one of the most dull and boring days I've spent in cyrodil. People just fire siege at each other and don't engage. *Shakes head, stares at floor during 1v1 fire treb match.

Lets see how today goes.

Yep. It sucks, it's lame. It has robbed the fun out of pvp for me. And honestly they should have been able to predict it would turn out this way if they made siege the deadliest "skill".

I assume fun for you was a zerg-mass ball of your friends grouped together running around with the idea that there must have been more skill in that then simply adapting to a change that is obviously for the better. You say that the statements of moving out of the red circle are getting old, I can say I am talking for ALL of the people who actually have to deal with reading your 12 posts of whining per page that we are sick of hearing statements that elude to this change removing skill of out this game. While you may have your own opinion, mine is that you are flat out wrong.

Ace_SiN

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

Siege Damage is perfect. Siege is meant to counter infantry not just be a nuisance.

Pre-patch:

1) Players tanking siege or just standing around in a blob healing through it without caring about positioning or the big red circles.

2) Fights just turned into a blob fest where numbers(and lag) decided almost every battle.


Post-patch:

1) Positioning in a siege is key or else you will be killed if you're standing around in a blob unaware of what's going on.

2) Players are using the siege barriers more than ever to defend their army

3) A tactical smaller group has a chance against a larger dumb one. I've seen a large enemy force try to push through a breached wall just to be mowed down by a few siege engines waiting for them on the other side. They were effectively held back and the keep was successfully defended.

4) I'm seeing gank squads return more fiercely than ever as they are used to flank the opposition to relieve pressure from the "OP" siege. This is a result of people having to spread out more due to opposing siege. This allows gank squads to find opportunities to attack.

5) Taking a keep or "bursting" one is not as easy when being defended. This means taking over a keep and pushing your frontlines forward means actual progress for your faction, since keeps no longer switch hands every 20 or so mins from mindless blob rushing.


I would say they have succeeded in adding more depth to PvP on the siege warfare side of things. Positioning should be a key component to skillful gameplay for any PvP game. ZOS has succeeded in adding that component. Skillful gameplay and tactics are more relevant than ever now.

Tripe

Siege damage needed an increase, but not nearly this much

All of those things you just listed could be achieved with siege doing half the damage it does now. I don't even think people are asking for that. Maybe 15% to 40% less. Siege should compliment armies, not be a one shot zerg buster. In many fights right now, siege is the fight.

Ace_SiN

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

Use a siege barrier. 35% reduction right there. Purge also works wonders.

GorraShatan

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

Not everyone in a group has to run siege barrier or purge even. Just some. Not a huge burden.

Kova

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

Teamwork in my guild has at least doubled. Hell, even random players finally feel like comrades instead of mindless zerg zombies. My best story was when we were taking alessia and they had set up ballistas inside the courtyard and we're just waiting for the breach. We sent in a NB squad and they....just....murdered those seige weapons. They gave us the ok and we stormed in. Now, due to the mass of AD inside, we wiped, but it was still a very enjoyable fight.

My advice to people who call for nerfs is the DK vs sorc situation from early patches. Playing a sorc use to mean throwing pillows at a player and running away. The biggest issue was fighting a DK, but over time players developed builds specifically to kill DKs. So my response to anyone who calls for nerfs is: Why should it be easy for you? Why do you deserve to win over the guy with the fire ballista?

Stilliko

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

I think its great, for many of the reasons already stated by others. So I won't repeat them.

I've been enjoying PvP more the last few days than I ever have! Its definitely a game changer, and peoples tactics will evolve. Some more quickly than others... To whoever at ZOS decided this was a good idea, Thank you Thank you Thank you!

vultar

Siege was OP before the change and is even more OP now. Boo!

Keeps are too easy to take. They are more like barns now. Break into it like Warhammer Online. What is the point. Also, the keep link system sucks donkey poo.

Advice:
1) Unlink keeps (right now people just stay between keeps looking for people instead of roaming) the way Darkfall/Darkage has them, make each keep unique instead of the copy/paste crap. It becomes very boring when everything is the same.
2) Make keeps truly player owned with guild banners, upgradable guards/mages/archers( player choice).

All people do it zerg. Promote small group and solo pvp in the frontier.

krim

Great change, but I'd like to see siege damage bumped up even more!

vultar wrote: »

Keeps are too easy to take. They are more like barns now. Break into it like Warhammer Online. What is the point. Also, the keep link system sucks donkey poo.

Advice:
1) Unlink keeps (right now people just stay between keeps looking for people instead of roaming) the way Darkfall/Darkage has them, make each keep unique instead of the copy/paste crap. It becomes very boring when everything is the same.
2) Make keeps truly player owned with guild banners, upgradable guards/mages/archers( player choice).

All people do it zerg. Promote small group and solo pvp in the frontier.

ahhh stop making sense!!

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO

Siege damage needed an increase, but not nearly this much

Tripe wrote: »

I'd like to hear if people think this is fun or not.

For me, I'm seeing what could have been fun fights turned into people just setting up siege. Sometimes it's either be sieged or set up siege and stand there playing whack-a-mole. Other times, it's run around and kill everyone on their siege because they refuse to get off of their precious siege equipment even though they're dying.

Yesterday, myself and 1 other person are fighting 6 AD. It was turning into a fun fight., We would have most likely lost, but it would have been fun while it lasted. Instead of a 2 on 6, we end up in a 2v4 and 2 siege.

Some people are doing what I can only describe as corner camping. Sure you can root them out, but isn't this why they got rid of ground oils?

I don't even want to describe some of the cheesy ways I've seen siege employed, because I don't want to see them used more often. It just isn't fun. Unfortunately, It's fight fire with fire.....ballista.

Yesterday felt like one of the most dull and boring days I've spent in cyrodil. People just fire siege at each other and don't engage. *Shakes head, stares at floor during 1v1 fire treb match.

Lets see how today goes.

I agree 100% with you!! Since this change PvP is boring. nothing but elder siege online. This change takes all the skill out of PvP. Makes the game VERY boring. And makes bad players think they are good.

Cody

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

Jauriel wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Jauriel wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

skarvika wrote: »

I feel very bad about it, and here's a screenshot that shows why:

And there are plenty more around us, but I didn't want to post a huge screenshot. 12+ VRs one-shotted. We pretty much gave up and stopped PVPing at this point. That's not much fun...not for us, at least...and I assume probably not for our enemies either, because PVP is boring if you've got nobody to play against.

And now ask those people dead on the ground what a shield is, if they pre-cast it/them before every engagement, if they re-apply it/them when needed, if they spent attribute and champoint points in health, if they use gear bonus that increase health, if they have a morph of purge or siege shield on their bar, if they have any self heal ability.

Fricking come on. Stop with the elitism. Especially when you yourself voted for it to be tamed down. If 3 fire siege all aim at you it doesn't matter how many purges you hit and shields you have or how many health points Ya got. Just stop.

move out of the way!!!!

its not elitism! its you using common sense! if you see a red circle, MOVE OUT OF THE WAY.
/sigh

So a pvp game is supposed to be 75% rolling and dodging ambiguous red circles? If they keep it this way I am gone and so are many others. This just isn't fun anymore. You may like this duck em and weave and duck and bob gameplay but it lacks real strategy and forethought. It's all beefy overkill over the top siege warfare now with too much emphasis on surviving incoming missiles. I guess if you like that sort of dumbed down, brainless (all mere reactionary and reflexive) experience then have at it, champ! Just stop trying to convince those of us who don't like it that we somehow must suck as players because we don't enjoy it.

this game is not "75% duck and weave" there is plenty of PvP to go around. You just do not like the change and are over-exaggerating it in an attempt to make it seem worse than it really is.

You can say that "dodge the red circle" is growing moot or whatever but it does not change the fact. If you do not dodge the siege, YOU WILL BE HIT; IF YOU GET HIT YOU SHOULD SUFFER FOR IT. Not just stand there and heal thru it like pre 1.6. brainless? lack of strategy? so just standing in it healing thru it and zerg blobing all day is better?? you and I must have a different opinion of what "Strategy" is.

and when did I EVER say "you suck"? seriously, tell me EXACTLY where I told you that you suck, quote it.

I said use common sense, I never said you suck. The only people that suck are the cheaters, the gate campers, and the hackers. Stop putting words in my mouth for the sake of argument. If you are that desperate to be right then why am I even here?

Cody

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

Ace_SiN wrote: »

Siege Damage is perfect. Siege is meant to counter infantry not just be a nuisance.

Pre-patch:

1) Players tanking siege or just standing around in a blob healing through it without caring about positioning or the big red circles.

2) Fights just turned into a blob fest where numbers(and lag) decided almost every battle.


Post-patch:

1) Positioning in a siege is key or else you will be killed if you're standing around in a blob unaware of what's going on.

2) Players are using the siege barriers more than ever to defend their army

3) A tactical smaller group has a chance against a larger dumb one. I've seen a large enemy force try to push through a breached wall just to be mowed down by a few siege engines waiting for them on the other side. They were effectively held back and the keep was successfully defended.

4) I'm seeing gank squads return more fiercely than ever as they are used to flank the opposition to relieve pressure from the "OP" siege. This is a result of people having to spread out more due to opposing siege. This allows gank squads to find opportunities to attack.

5) Taking a keep or "bursting" one is not as easy when being defended. This means taking over a keep and pushing your frontlines forward means actual progress for your faction, since keeps no longer switch hands every 20 or so mins from mindless blob rushing.


I would say they have succeeded in adding more depth to PvP on the siege warfare side of things. Positioning should be a key component to skillful gameplay for any PvP game. ZOS has succeeded in adding that component. Skillful gameplay and tactics are more relevant than ever now.

exactly.

krim

Great change, but I'd like to see siege damage bumped up even more!

Wheeler said the lvl of skill went down a bit.

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO

Siege damage needed an increase, but not nearly this much

krim wrote: »

Wheeler said the lvl of skill went down a bit.

I Agree 100%! There are no real PvP engagements anymore. Encounters are more PvSiege. First group to bring a few siege to bear on the enemy wins. I know there are rare instances where no siege is used, but that's just due to non level terrain.
IMHO, since the siege update PvP has been boring. The siege does not break up the zerg. If anything it helps the zerg. More people = more siege. And also my opinion it takes all the skill out of PvP battles. As I stated in another post I soloed whole raid, in a resource tower, with a fire ballista. While it was funny for a moment. It felt so cheesy. Fire one shot run in spam AOE couple times run back fire again at ground rinse repeat. No skill required.
A number of VERY good players do not like the change. And I am glad to see others, who I consider to be excellent players, see this change as a bad thing.
And people please, you really need to STOP using the "realism" argument. Not in a game that takes place in a completely fictional world. If you want realism you should not be playing a game that you have magic, talking cats and lizards, tiger mounts, zombies, trolls, giants, necromancers and not to mention being able to be resurrected using the captured souls of creatures trapped in a magic stone.

Tintinabula

Good change, but I'd like to see siege damaged reduced a tiny bit

Elder Dodge Ball Online!!

DisgracefulMind

Good change, but I'd like to see siege damaged reduced a tiny bit

After tonight...I like it. I like it a lot. >:D

sKorcheD

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

I think it's fine. Stay out the damn circles, get more than 18k hps. Or Enjoy being a glass cannon.
EDIT: I'm a vamp, Its not that bad.

GorraShatan

Great change, the current siege damage strikes just the right balance

Well, according to Wheeler there are some bugs that are unintentionally boosting siege a bit, so once those are fixed it should be down a touch.