User interface and quality of life problems! ESO 2.0 is good... let's make it better.

Atropos

Great thread @Attorneyatlawl. I seldom check these official forums but I saw a couple mentions in this one so I wanted to drop by and endorse your campaign. At this point, I no longer expect UI reform to occur, but it doesn't hurt to dream.

In my opinion, UI is the aspect of the game regarding which ZOS is most intractable. When it comes to class balance, feature requests, RP/Lore clarifications, or other types of feedback there has been a willingness on their part to meet with player groups and share ideas and feedback. Whenever I have raised the possibility of a UI/API themed feedback discussion it has not been pursued on ZeniMax' end.

As an addon author, also, I've found that ZOS has been extremely reluctant to promote addon development and encourage the addon community. They've done guild spotlights, build features, artwork showcases, and community event sponsorship but have never expressed any public encouragement of addons or addon developers.

My opinion is that many of the biggest UI deficiencies in ESO (nameplates, combat log, buff timers) are things that should be handled by the game UI itself (as options if not by default). Perhaps the lack of addons for the console community will provide enough impetus for ZOS to justify building some of these features where before they could simply punt them over to addon developers.

I think we can realistically hope that some of the polish and style of certain facets of the console UI (which in cases is better than the PC UI in some ways) will get reverse-ported back over for PC players, but I'm not expecting much more than that.

Attorneyatlawl

Atropos wrote: »

Great thread @Attorneyatlawl. I seldom check these official forums but I saw a couple mentions in this one so I wanted to drop by and endorse your campaign. At this point, I no longer expect UI reform to occur, but it doesn't hurt to dream.

(snip)
I think we can realistically hope that some of the polish and style of certain facets of the console UI (which in cases is better than the PC UI in some ways) will get reverse-ported back over for PC players, but I'm not expecting much more than that.

Thanks for dropping by . I'm not too optimistic about the prospects of fixes being made, but if there is enough community traction asking for improvements to the UI, who knows? Enough asking by PC users, and console users maybe demanding it, and miracles could happen. Then again, miracles aren't common, either. Without reading up on every detail in advance including builds, I have a hard time imagining anyone playing on a platform other than the PC figuring out how to beat the trials or vet dsa if using no information gleaned from addons on the PC... and the general usability of the PC interface without addons just plain isn't there, even if they integrate a small handful of vital community addons like basic inventory sorting on there .

I always have, and still do, feel the user interface issues and overreliance on letting addon authors make the UI usable while rarely ever mentioning or commenting on the UI's problems, is one of ESO's major failings and has hurt its success a lot since launch. I was fairly surprised, in all honesty, that all of this type of thing wasn't addressed before the console beta became available as it basically is their chance for a fresh "second relaunch" to gain significant momentum in the market. With the last post regarding the UI by any @ZOS employee on the forums that I've seen dating back to August or so, I think you're probably right unfortunately.

The game as a whole is very fun, but it would go from "good" and "fun" to "great" if they addressed some of these longstanding concerns and fixed them, similarly to the later changes to veteran XP leveling rates which were changed suddenly and still have been left untouched since other than a handful of nerfs to grinding spots, and exploit fixes. The only communication I have seen personally is that they plan on removing the veteran ranks still, re-confirming a statement made quite a long time ago. With how ESO has evolved, however, I don't think that's even a good idea at this point as they literally are extra levels at this point. Instead, they should make them more comparable to regular levels' XP requirements as a fix for that.

The User Interface and Veteran Leveling have been widely discussed topics and requested for fixing/additions/changes, but have seen little progress since launch (with vet levels even going backwards as the Points of Interest, Dolmens, Public Dungeons, etc. give significantly less XP as a percentage of a veteran level, leaving killing extra monsters along the entire way through the only real way to pick up the slack as PVP-based XP gain remains very poor even if you're in one of the groups at the top 1% of the leaderboards in a campaign, while dungeons don't provide viable experience gains either).

I remain overall optimistic as far as ESO being a good game... but there is no question it is being held back from much further success, largely due to these outstanding issues.

Smiteye

Amen... elder scrolls online would be a radically better game if they would fix this stuff already.

Smiteye

Also dont get why random bugfixes get devposts within hours from zos like @ZOS_GaryA on the Templar charge bug and this kind of thing doesnt for months on end .

Valymer

Smiteye wrote: »

Also dont get why random bugfixes get devposts within hours from zos like @ZOS_GaryA on the Templar charge bug and this kind of thing doesnt for months on end .

To be fair, those two issues have totally different scales. A complete UI redesign requires a lot more time and effort than fixing an ability animation bug.

Not that both aren't worth doing, though.

idk

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Much of what the op wants can be obtained via add-ons. As for the rest of having it added into the game I suggest looking at the history and you will see THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!

If you look at the history from alpha/beta testing you'd see they had a full feature UI and decided TO TAKE IT ALL OUT because this is TES and we have a fairly normal TES UI.

There was even heated debate concerning what could be seen through thr API which some saying LEARN TO PLAY vs using all that added info and others saying GIVE ME A SCREEN OF NUMBERS and all this other information.

In the end the developers said very clearly and strong NO WAY.

That's not quite how it happened, @Giles.floydub17_ESO, in actuality. Let's set the record straight here with a history of the game's beta testing & development in regards to camera and User Interface (UI) issues in response to "community" feedback:


-In the beginning, there were toggleable options, for your own preference, to enable or disable overhead nameplates as well as guild nameplate tags optionally (additionally you had toggles for them being on at all, enabled on players from your faction, enabled on guildmates, enabled on enemies, enabled on enemy players, etc., everything you'd need to allow for basic gameplay and community in an online game), scrolling combat text, a combat log in a chat box tab including damage sources for enemies attacking you, and debuffs, as well as some other accomodations like not having the chatbox fade away along with its text/messages when inactive. You additionally could enable labels on resource bars like health and magicka so you could tell how much you had left.

-There was no 1st-person view, but people complained vociferously and it got added.

-Then non-MMORPG, single-player fans of Elder Scrolls lore came and complained loudly that they wanted everything not in the newest Skyrim single-player game taken out because they didn't want to be "forced" (quote-unquote, as there's no such thing) to toggle options on or off in the settings window because some random group they run into might ask them to in order to play with them (in which case you could simply just not group with them).

-ZOS, in response, began stripping some features like a minimap (how is it more immersive, exactly, to cover your entire screen in a giant map and be unable to see the game world constantly when needing to navigate, I to this day do not know), as people who didn't research the game being an MMORPG and claimed they would not play if it wasn't all removed. Nameplates were disabled with a statement being made that they would return in an improved form, which to date has not happened.

Mind you, things like the minimap and buff/debuff icons & indicators even were stock options in the UI in the previous Elder Scrolls games such as Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, but a vocal campaign insisted it would not work, enough so that they decided to change course to hopefully placate the bad press from the complaints and not damage sales. Understandable enough, it is a business after all .


- Then, loud complaints came in about how the first-person view didn't have good enough options and looked poorly animated (hypocritically, and when 3rd-person camera view issues were mentioned such as Field of View (FOV), zoom distance, and centering the camera, they were dismissed as unimportant by the same people begging for first-person improvements to that mode's FOV because "I don't use 3rd-person anyway"), and ZOS had a big to-do announcing how they were improving it in response to public feedback.

-Over the next several patches from October through March, more and more User Interface options were removed, and many of the game's most loyal supporters and guilds at that time such as @Atropos from Entropy Rising, @Wykkyd from Mostly Harmless (myself, @Attorneyatlawl from the same), @Izkimar from Best In Slot, amongst many others such as @Erlex, wrote a good deal about how this was hurting the game both from a gameplay standpoint and that it might damage its chances of subscription success once it launched as most people, having read about what the game was before buying it, would see it was an MMORPG and expect it to have basic accomodations like the minimap, a combat log, and health bar text, etc., or being able to see what their skills could morph into once they leveled them. Issues such as addon authors quitting the game over time, hassles with keeping addons up-to-date, and the API (interface defining what can be done with addons by their authors, which originally allowed for cast bars if wanted, as well as buff timers once the stock options were removed, as well as seeing what hit you in a combat log addon). Some supported the idea of them being removed and never being brought back, asking that this be made into a clear statement officially, and others had more mixed viewpoints at that point in time such as @IcyDeadPeople and @Ysne58, who since I believe have become more amiable towards these kinds of options being re-implemented when I have talked with them more recently.

Finally, there was a very.... we'll term it "lively", to be polite, debate in the closed beta community as to whether we should be able to see enemies' magicka and stamina with addons while targeting them. Contrary to many others, I actually did argue for that specific functionality to be disabled, as I felt it crossed to being "too much" information about your opponents' cards to play when fighting them.

-During this testing period, feedback and questions were made as to whether the Minimap would be returning as the ability to enable the older stock one was removed. @ZOS_GinaBruno clarified a relatively short time later that Zenimax's intention for the launch of The Elder Scrolls Online was to support the compass system for navigation and that it was unlikely to come back before then.

-A week or two before launch, @ZOS_PaulSage finally broke the silence and provided an official statement about their intentions for how the API would be used, and how they intended to change it prior to launch. There was of course continued debate, some people were very happy to hear that most game info would be restricted, while others were concerned enough about ESO's direction to cancel their pre-orders as a result. Soon after, the final beta version before the release candidate (in other words, what you would play after the official head start launch of the live game servers) came and had these changes. It came to light that more than what was expected to be removed, was indeed removed. Other items that weren't expected to make the cut remained, such as seeing what items your group or raid party members received when looting boss monsters and other enemies via addons.

In addition to disabling the ability to see enemy resources remaining, we also could no longer see our own combat information such as what hit us, even through addons (just the amount we were attacked for, no mitigation information such as "You were hit by Flame Atronarch's Cinder Bolt for 343 Fire Damage (54 reduced)". Additional items that were never enabled included being able to make nameplates through addons (you cannot place tags or user interface objects in-world in relation to the camera, and never could, which is understandably needed to prevent additions like Deadly Boss Mobs (DBM) as I'm sure some may have heard about in World of Warcraft being widely hated).

-Elder Scrolls Online launched as a AAA subscription-based MMORPG title at the end of March 2014 for the head-start period, and the beginning of April for those who did not pre-order. In an early major game version (I believe it was version 1.1, the first major patch, but I may be mis-remembering... however, it was very shortly after the game's release), 1st-person camera improvements like a Field of View slider were added, but no comment was made on 3rd-person equivalents.

-Since, there has been little said by Zenimax in regards to considering either opening the functionality addon authors can use, or improving the default user interface to a more industry-standard level of options, other than two I can recall: one of nameplates not being a disliked idea during an "Elder Scrolls Off The Record" fansite interview with Mr. Sage, and another by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom mentioning that they were not off the table for implementation soon after. There haven't been to my knowledge (and if anyone has seen them, please feel free to link them here) any further statements regarding the entire issue publicly.

Finally, a few months ago in 2015, the Version 1.6 Public Test Server notes described additional camera options for the third-person view, adding and enabling option sliders to allow you to center the camera instead of the default far-off-to-the-right over the shoulder view, adjust its height upwards or downwards in relation to your character, and a Field of View slider (which gives the impression of being further away from your character, even though it does not actually move the camera, because it appears smaller in relationship to the extra game world you can see to your sides). Unfortunately, a maximum zoom distance preference was not added in this patch and remains unimplemented.

-Throughout the lifetime to date of The Elder Scrolls Online, there has been wide discussion of interface improvements both for functionality (examples such as a minimap, combat log tab, etc.) and ease-of-use/convenience items (a reply-to-mail button, category filters for your inventory, a better Guild Store interface that remembered your search and let you search by item name and other typical features, etc.). Earlier on, there was a fair amount of vocal single-player Elder Scrolls fans that continued to debate and assert that they would hurt the game's quality to have as options for each player to decide for themselves if they wanted to use, and therefore they should not be implemented because it would not be "true to the Elder Scrolls series", damaging their immersion in the game (even being optional). Prominent theorycrafters such as @TehMagnus (for example, here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1376600/#Comment_1376600) and myself, along with Cyrodiil PVP players that are well known for their twitch and youtube gameplay streams, supported interface improvements. Addon authors such as @Wykkyd that are household names in the addons department, have also stated their support.

Over time, as the game has matured, many (most?) players have become at the least not opposed to preferences like these being allowed as in-game options rather than needing to go download dozens (yes, literally) of add-ons and maintaining them, particularly as they have almost always broken with major bugs each time a large game patch came around, and most of the original add-on authors quit playing and updating their add-ons eventually. Many more players have understood the need or want for default versions of these features being optional, and supported the feedback when it has been made over time, through the present, but there has been no communication regarding the interface at large from functionality or quality of life issues except for mentions of some (a handful is a phrase I recall seeing, but I can't remember for sure) of the most popular add-ons for the PC Elder Scrolls Online being integrated into the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 versions, with a PC addition of these same features being uncertain, and not coming for awhile after the console ports were released.

Some fans have felt strongly enough about this topic to organize players to pose for quick mockups like this one by @Lfehova :

(Full-sized picture link: http://i.imgur.com/ZGn7NID.jpg)


Which shows their idea on how optional overhead nameplates and guild names could be integrated with the currently optional overhead health bars.

---

And that brings us to today. Thanks for reading, and hopefully this clears the air on some of the misconceptions floating around on this topic . I have made my best effort to present things mostly objectively in this accounting, and of course anyone mentioned can correct the record here if they feel that I didn't show what they meant when paraphrased into this post .

I am well aware of the history and merely posted a readers digest version instead of the Wall of Words you choose. Your post of his they veered from an MMO design to the next TES game is a better, clean explanation, but it's what we have and an example of the lack of focus, scope creep ESO has had from the beginning. Unfortunately, it's what we have and Zos doesn't listen well. (If they did we would also have more content.

idk

Ok, home now, vs on a phone.

I am very familiar with @Atropos and companies discussions and explanation of the development, or lack of, the UI and other aspects of the game. Personally, I think Isarii put things into perspective the first time he left ESO in his parting words that can be found here. http://errantpenman.com/2014/03/22/a-farewell-to-teso/

Personally, I think his 'lazy-eyed vision" comment really puts things into perspective. I have long felt that Zos has lacked focus with their design, implementation and creativity on the whole. Considering the beautiful world we have for questing and some of the detail many areas, quests and skills have, yet we had such a challenging launch and slow pace of content development (more on this below) I think they lacked a central authority to keep focus on the tasks. This would also explain the scope creep that encompassed the UI and other aspects of the game.

I fully expect Firor, Konke, Sage and others had a vision for this game when they first started, I understand that. It is clear they strayed from that vision and in the end claimed that is was always their vision.

With that, the state of the UI is the least of my concerns. The lack of content is more of an issue for me. Guildies I have been running with are taking a break/leaving the game due to the lack of content. The reality that we have seen less content added, less end game content as a whole in the first 12 months of release than most larger MMOs and nothing on the near horizon is my concern. Converting to 2.0 for most games is a major expansion, new content and more. With ESO it was an addition of a major grind and conversion to B2P with nothing new to explore for that new major grind. Many of the strongest players are leaving the game (that have not already left the game) which is not good for the health of the game.

To me, that is the bigger concern. It is almost as though they consider the recent change to B2P as a win/win in that they get an influx of new players and all the content is new to them. They do not need to be concerned about new content nor be concerned with those of us that have been playing this game all along.

Smiteye

Good for you but the ui is one of the worst things about this game for a lot of us and me! And complaining about attorney laying out the facts to back up what hes saying... really?

Valymer

The UI affects all players. New content only affects those who have exhausted the existing content, which is surprisingly few people -- although you wouldn't be able to tell that from these forums.

Attorneyatlawl

Smiteye wrote: »

Good for you but the ui is one of the worst things about this game for a lot of us and me! And complaining about attorney laying out the facts to back up what hes saying... really?

In ESO, even though I actively keep over EIGHTY addons (literally, 80 addons) updated manually by downloading them from third-party sites, I still do not have the level of information and basic user-friendliness these past games provided on the UI. Warhammer Online, and Rift, both let me move my bars where I wanted, enable/disable/customize a minimap, resize anything and everything on-screen in-game to my exact preference with a friendly layout editor, and toggle numerous options on or off based on my preferences like nameplates, combat log as a chat tab or separate window, and numbers on resource bars for my mana/action points or my health. Warhammer came out in 2008.



All this, and I still can't see who hit me or what ability they hit me with, or nameplates/guild tags overhead when near friendly players. A long time back when I played Rift and the game was new, through the end of Hammerknell pre-nerf (I was the #1-2 dps'er in a top 5 guild, depending on the night), the only addons I had to put in to compete at the absolute top level of play was a damage meter and an icon to let me see more easily when a certain specific skill had procced (random chance on skill activation to give a followup boost, so having a colored indicator instead of just a lit-up icon border was a nicety). Here, I need 80+ and still don't get a lot of the basics.

Does no one see a problem here?

This is what the editor allowed you to tailor to your preferences and what works for you, below:

(Full-sized image link: http://i.imgur.com/Y3yyJ25.jpg )


That was in-game, and provided as a stock feature for players to arrange, resize, and turn on and off displays to play the game how they wanted. That is choice.

Smiteye

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

Good for you but the ui is one of the worst things about this game for a lot of us and me! And complaining about attorney laying out the facts to back up what hes saying... really?

In ESO, even though I actively keep over EIGHTY addons (literally, 80 addons) updated manually by downloading them from third-party sites, I still do not have the level of information and basic user-friendliness these past games provided on the UI. Warhammer Online, and Rift, both let me move my bars where I wanted, enable/disable/customize a minimap, resize anything and everything on-screen in-game to my exact preference with a friendly layout editor, and toggle numerous options on or off based on my preferences like nameplates, combat log as a chat tab or separate window, and numbers on resource bars for my mana/action points or my health. Warhammer came out in 2008.



All this, and I still can't see who hit me or what ability they hit me with, or nameplates/guild tags overhead when near friendly players. A long time back when I played Rift and the game was new, through the end of Hammerknell pre-nerf (I was the #1-2 dps'er in a top 5 guild, depending on the night), the only addons I had to put in to compete at the absolute top level of play was a damage meter and an icon to let me see more easily when a certain specific skill had procced (random chance on skill activation to give a followup boost, so having a colored indicator instead of just a lit-up icon border was a nicety). Here, I need 80+ and still don't get a lot of the basics.

Does no one see a problem here?

This is what the editor allowed you to tailor to your preferences and what works for you, below:

(Full-sized image link: http://i.imgur.com/Y3yyJ25.jpg )


That was in-game, and provided as a stock feature for players to arrange, resize, and turn on and off displays to play the game how they wanted. That is choice.

Played Rift too! That layout editor you screenshotted there was one of the best things in any mmo, a few had the same kinda thing. Drag stuff around and change its size to get it just how you want. @ZOS_GinaBruno can you pass along feedback we want this to happen?

Attorneyatlawl

On reddit, some people seemed to not realize what that screenshot is of.

That isn't a picture of a UI... it's a picture of a layout editor provided by the game that lets you move, enable or disable, adjust the opacity (transparency) of, reposition, and re-size everything you see on-screen normally. Instead of downloading a number of add-ons, you simply (in Warhammer, Rift, SWTOR, etc.) hit ESC, clicked "UI Editor", and if you didn't like the minimap? Rightclick it and set it to "Hide" instead of "Show". Want it to auto-hide if you open your inventory? Check the box on that same right-click menu. Don't like seeing a combat log? Same thing there... hide it fully, turn it into a chat tab on your normal chat box, or just remove it entirely. Want your health bar at the top middle? Drag it over. Too small? Drag the corner and make it bigger. Wanted your quest tracker in a different spot? You get the idea .

Having all of that UI customization inside the game instead of third-party addons made for a much more tailor-made experience for everyone by making it extremely easy and accessible to adjust things to how you, and you alone, preferred them to look, be sized, and where they should be, as well as if they even should be there at all for yourself. No update hassles, no research needed by new players, and easy to use.

LtCrunch

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

On reddit, some people seemed to not realize what that screenshot is of.

That isn't a picture of a UI... it's a picture of a layout editor provided by the game that lets you move, enable or disable, adjust the opacity (transparency) of, reposition, and re-size everything you see on-screen normally. Instead of downloading a number of add-ons, you simply (in Warhammer, Rift, SWTOR, etc.) hit ESC, clicked "UI Editor", and if you didn't like the minimap? Rightclick it and set it to "Hide" instead of "Show". Want it to auto-hide if you open your inventory? Check the box on that same right-click menu. Don't like seeing a combat log? Same thing there... hide it fully, turn it into a chat tab on your normal chat box, or just remove it entirely. Want your health bar at the top middle? Drag it over. Too small? Drag the corner and make it bigger. Wanted your quest tracker in a different spot? You get the idea .

Having all of that UI customization inside the game instead of third-party addons made for a much more tailor-made experience for everyone by making it extremely easy and accessible to adjust things to how you, and you alone, preferred them to look, be sized, and where they should be, as well as if they even should be there at all for yourself. No update hassles, no research needed by new players, and easy to use.

I absolutely loved the UI editor in SWTOR and have used an add-on called Azurah for quite a long time now for similar functionality. I would love to see a built-in editor such as that for ESO. I'm not holding my breath though xD

wraith808

Brandalf wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

On reddit, some people seemed to not realize what that screenshot is of.

That isn't a picture of a UI... it's a picture of a layout editor provided by the game that lets you move, enable or disable, adjust the opacity (transparency) of, reposition, and re-size everything you see on-screen normally. Instead of downloading a number of add-ons, you simply (in Warhammer, Rift, SWTOR, etc.) hit ESC, clicked "UI Editor", and if you didn't like the minimap? Rightclick it and set it to "Hide" instead of "Show". Want it to auto-hide if you open your inventory? Check the box on that same right-click menu. Don't like seeing a combat log? Same thing there... hide it fully, turn it into a chat tab on your normal chat box, or just remove it entirely. Want your health bar at the top middle? Drag it over. Too small? Drag the corner and make it bigger. Wanted your quest tracker in a different spot? You get the idea .

Having all of that UI customization inside the game instead of third-party addons made for a much more tailor-made experience for everyone by making it extremely easy and accessible to adjust things to how you, and you alone, preferred them to look, be sized, and where they should be, as well as if they even should be there at all for yourself. No update hassles, no research needed by new players, and easy to use.

I absolutely loved the UI editor in SWTOR and have used an add-on called Azurah for quite a long time now for similar functionality. I would love to see a built-in editor such as that for ESO. I'm not holding my breath though xD

While it is awesome, it wasn't there on release... and even after Game Update 1.2: Legacy, they had to tweak it to get to the point of that image. Keep it up with the work on the interface, but I just wanted to point that out.

Jules

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

I recall reading some of your posts on this subject back in the day on PTS. At the time I liked the minimal vanilla UI compared to what seemed garish or busy in other MMO UIs.

However, having played this game well over 1 year now, it's hard to imagine how anyone can function in PVP without tons of add ons that explain how much damage your attacks are doing, when they crit, etc., and all the other important info missing from the character sheet. If nothing else, at least to be able to confirm whether our passives and active abilities are working properly.

I don't mind using add-ons for this, but I imagine for those of us with weaker PCs the game would run smoother if we didn't need to rely on so many add-ons. And of course, these features could be optional, in case someone prefers a more uncluttered UI.

Agreed. Most of this game is totally unplayable without add ons. Simple things like damage meters and scrolling combat text essential, like you said, when trying to gauge whether passives are working. Posting damage meters should be available too. It would be a lot easier if these things were incorporated into the actual game.

Cody

I did not read the entire thing, as they are requests I have seen before, so i skimmed the headings and read the main points. I also completely ignored your boasts about being...whatever DPSer you were... in he rai muhahahahahha

yes, do all of this. especially the combat log and scrolling combat. We should not need add-ons to get those features.

Attorneyatlawl

wraith808 wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

On reddit, some people seemed to not realize what that screenshot is of.

That isn't a picture of a UI... it's a picture of a layout editor provided by the game that lets you move, enable or disable, adjust the opacity (transparency) of, reposition, and re-size everything you see on-screen normally. Instead of downloading a number of add-ons, you simply (in Warhammer, Rift, SWTOR, etc.) hit ESC, clicked "UI Editor", and if you didn't like the minimap? Rightclick it and set it to "Hide" instead of "Show". Want it to auto-hide if you open your inventory? Check the box on that same right-click menu. Don't like seeing a combat log? Same thing there... hide it fully, turn it into a chat tab on your normal chat box, or just remove it entirely. Want your health bar at the top middle? Drag it over. Too small? Drag the corner and make it bigger. Wanted your quest tracker in a different spot? You get the idea .

Having all of that UI customization inside the game instead of third-party addons made for a much more tailor-made experience for everyone by making it extremely easy and accessible to adjust things to how you, and you alone, preferred them to look, be sized, and where they should be, as well as if they even should be there at all for yourself. No update hassles, no research needed by new players, and easy to use.

I absolutely loved the UI editor in SWTOR and have used an add-on called Azurah for quite a long time now for similar functionality. I would love to see a built-in editor such as that for ESO. I'm not holding my breath though xD

While it is awesome, it wasn't there on release... and even after Game Update 1.2: Legacy, they had to tweak it to get to the point of that image. Keep it up with the work on the interface, but I just wanted to point that out.

That was actually Rift, not SWTOR. Thanks for the comments and your support .

wraith808

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

On reddit, some people seemed to not realize what that screenshot is of.

That isn't a picture of a UI... it's a picture of a layout editor provided by the game that lets you move, enable or disable, adjust the opacity (transparency) of, reposition, and re-size everything you see on-screen normally. Instead of downloading a number of add-ons, you simply (in Warhammer, Rift, SWTOR, etc.) hit ESC, clicked "UI Editor", and if you didn't like the minimap? Rightclick it and set it to "Hide" instead of "Show". Want it to auto-hide if you open your inventory? Check the box on that same right-click menu. Don't like seeing a combat log? Same thing there... hide it fully, turn it into a chat tab on your normal chat box, or just remove it entirely. Want your health bar at the top middle? Drag it over. Too small? Drag the corner and make it bigger. Wanted your quest tracker in a different spot? You get the idea .

Having all of that UI customization inside the game instead of third-party addons made for a much more tailor-made experience for everyone by making it extremely easy and accessible to adjust things to how you, and you alone, preferred them to look, be sized, and where they should be, as well as if they even should be there at all for yourself. No update hassles, no research needed by new players, and easy to use.

I absolutely loved the UI editor in SWTOR and have used an add-on called Azurah for quite a long time now for similar functionality. I would love to see a built-in editor such as that for ESO. I'm not holding my breath though xD

While it is awesome, it wasn't there on release... and even after Game Update 1.2: Legacy, they had to tweak it to get to the point of that image. Keep it up with the work on the interface, but I just wanted to point that out.

That was actually Rift, not SWTOR. Thanks for the comments and your support .

Yeah... I saw that image was Rift, but the comment talked about SWTOR

idk

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

On reddit, some people seemed to not realize what that screenshot is of.

That isn't a picture of a UI... it's a picture of a layout editor provided by the game that lets you move, enable or disable, adjust the opacity (transparency) of, reposition, and re-size everything you see on-screen normally. Instead of downloading a number of add-ons, you simply (in Warhammer, Rift, SWTOR, etc.) hit ESC, clicked "UI Editor", and if you didn't like the minimap? Rightclick it and set it to "Hide" instead of "Show". Want it to auto-hide if you open your inventory? Check the box on that same right-click menu. Don't like seeing a combat log? Same thing there... hide it fully, turn it into a chat tab on your normal chat box, or just remove it entirely. Want your health bar at the top middle? Drag it over. Too small? Drag the corner and make it bigger. Wanted your quest tracker in a different spot? You get the idea .

Having all of that UI customization inside the game instead of third-party addons made for a much more tailor-made experience for everyone by making it extremely easy and accessible to adjust things to how you, and you alone, preferred them to look, be sized, and where they should be, as well as if they even should be there at all for yourself. No update hassles, no research needed by new players, and easy to use.

I absolutely loved the UI editor in SWTOR and have used an add-on called Azurah for quite a long time now for similar functionality. I would love to see a built-in editor such as that for ESO. I'm not holding my breath though xD

While it is awesome, it wasn't there on release... and even after Game Update 1.2: Legacy, they had to tweak it to get to the point of that image. Keep it up with the work on the interface, but I just wanted to point that out.

That was actually Rift, not SWTOR. Thanks for the comments and your support .

He is talking correctly about SWTOR. Maybe rift did something similar.

Attorneyatlawl

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Brandalf wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

On reddit, some people seemed to not realize what that screenshot is of.

That isn't a picture of a UI... it's a picture of a layout editor provided by the game that lets you move, enable or disable, adjust the opacity (transparency) of, reposition, and re-size everything you see on-screen normally. Instead of downloading a number of add-ons, you simply (in Warhammer, Rift, SWTOR, etc.) hit ESC, clicked "UI Editor", and if you didn't like the minimap? Rightclick it and set it to "Hide" instead of "Show". Want it to auto-hide if you open your inventory? Check the box on that same right-click menu. Don't like seeing a combat log? Same thing there... hide it fully, turn it into a chat tab on your normal chat box, or just remove it entirely. Want your health bar at the top middle? Drag it over. Too small? Drag the corner and make it bigger. Wanted your quest tracker in a different spot? You get the idea .

Having all of that UI customization inside the game instead of third-party addons made for a much more tailor-made experience for everyone by making it extremely easy and accessible to adjust things to how you, and you alone, preferred them to look, be sized, and where they should be, as well as if they even should be there at all for yourself. No update hassles, no research needed by new players, and easy to use.

I absolutely loved the UI editor in SWTOR and have used an add-on called Azurah for quite a long time now for similar functionality. I would love to see a built-in editor such as that for ESO. I'm not holding my breath though xD

While it is awesome, it wasn't there on release... and even after Game Update 1.2: Legacy, they had to tweak it to get to the point of that image. Keep it up with the work on the interface, but I just wanted to point that out.

That was actually Rift, not SWTOR. Thanks for the comments and your support .

He is talking correctly about SWTOR. Maybe rift did something similar.

Yar, the picture was of rift, long before swtor was even in broad closed beta , so I thought he might have incorrectly assumed it wasn't rift until he clarified since the rift picture was quoted then swtor was discussed .

Smiteye

@Attorneyatlawl, saw you post this in another thread:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Except for the fact that the API doesn't allow for most of the important combat info, and the default UI is barely there in the first place. That not only leaves people having no way to get the information to play the game well, but anyone who doesn't know how to go download addons and then hassle keeping them updated every patch, is high and dry right off the bat of even basics like health bar numbers or how hard they have attacked an enemy for.


-How much damage am I gaining by adding Sharpened to my staff against this monster?

-How much less damage did I take from that monster's attack because of my armor? Wait, which monster even hit me?

-Ok, I downloaded the combat log addon... wait, the API can't even tell me what hit me!?

-I pressed a buff.... it says it has 15 seconds! What the--- I didn't even get the buff or the Heal over Time even tho the addon showed it? What do you mean it has no access to tell me even with an addon?

-Boss taunted!! Wait, why is it going for the heal----errr oh shoot, he died... even with an addon clogging things up it still just guesses it off of having pressed the taunt button. Really????

-Alright, gonna go craft some stuff.... why can't I just see provisioning items again?

I think you get the idea... .

I thought the addons could show buffs... it doesnt give authors the info, really?

Attorneyatlawl

Smiteye wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl, saw you post this in another thread:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Except for the fact that the API doesn't allow for most of the important combat info, and the default UI is barely there in the first place. That not only leaves people having no way to get the information to play the game well, but anyone who doesn't know how to go download addons and then hassle keeping them updated every patch, is high and dry right off the bat of even basics like health bar numbers or how hard they have attacked an enemy for.


-How much damage am I gaining by adding Sharpened to my staff against this monster?

-How much less damage did I take from that monster's attack because of my armor? Wait, which monster even hit me?

-Ok, I downloaded the combat log addon... wait, the API can't even tell me what hit me!?

-I pressed a buff.... it says it has 15 seconds! What the--- I didn't even get the buff or the Heal over Time even tho the addon showed it? What do you mean it has no access to tell me even with an addon?

-Boss taunted!! Wait, why is it going for the heal----errr oh shoot, he died... even with an addon clogging things up it still just guesses it off of having pressed the taunt button. Really????

-Alright, gonna go craft some stuff.... why can't I just see provisioning items again?

I think you get the idea... .

I thought the addons could show buffs... it doesnt give authors the info, really?

Nope. The only thing they can do is display a timer when the button for an ability is pressed, unfortunately. They have little way to detect if the attack actually landed, and often refreshing a buff/etc. will cause these artificial timers to bug out and just vanish outright until it would have ended.

Smiteye

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl, saw you post this in another thread:

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Except for the fact that the API doesn't allow for most of the important combat info, and the default UI is barely there in the first place. That not only leaves people having no way to get the information to play the game well, but anyone who doesn't know how to go download addons and then hassle keeping them updated every patch, is high and dry right off the bat of even basics like health bar numbers or how hard they have attacked an enemy for.


-How much damage am I gaining by adding Sharpened to my staff against this monster?

-How much less damage did I take from that monster's attack because of my armor? Wait, which monster even hit me?

-Ok, I downloaded the combat log addon... wait, the API can't even tell me what hit me!?

-I pressed a buff.... it says it has 15 seconds! What the--- I didn't even get the buff or the Heal over Time even tho the addon showed it? What do you mean it has no access to tell me even with an addon?

-Boss taunted!! Wait, why is it going for the heal----errr oh shoot, he died... even with an addon clogging things up it still just guesses it off of having pressed the taunt button. Really????

-Alright, gonna go craft some stuff.... why can't I just see provisioning items again?

I think you get the idea... .

I thought the addons could show buffs... it doesnt give authors the info, really?

Nope. The only thing they can do is display a timer when the button for an ability is pressed, unfortunately. They have little way to detect if the attack actually landed, and often refreshing a buff/etc. will cause these artificial timers to bug out and just vanish outright until it would have ended.

That explains that... .

wilsonirayb16_ESO

I think most of the things listed are achievable with addons now, and they work perfectly fine while still keeping a minimalistic view.

I am 100% against nameplates and am so happy ESO doesn't have them. If there's one thing they did right, it was to not include them.

wraith808

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

I think most of the things listed are achievable with addons now, and they work perfectly fine while still keeping a minimalistic view.

I am 100% against nameplates and am so happy ESO doesn't have them. If there's one thing they did right, it was to not include them.

The alternate approach is to allow the people that want them to toggle them on, and others to toggle them off. Many of these arguments can be solved in the same manner. Customization. Play the way you want.

Valymer

wraith808 wrote: »

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

I think most of the things listed are achievable with addons now, and they work perfectly fine while still keeping a minimalistic view.

I am 100% against nameplates and am so happy ESO doesn't have them. If there's one thing they did right, it was to not include them.

The alternate approach is to allow the people that want them to toggle them on, and others to toggle them off. Many of these arguments can be solved in the same manner. Customization. Play the way you want.

dat logic tho

Attorneyatlawl

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

I think most of the things listed are achievable with addons now, and they work perfectly fine while still keeping a minimalistic view.

I am 100% against nameplates and am so happy ESO doesn't have them. If there's one thing they did right, it was to not include them.

A common misconception. I have 70+ individual addons installed yet my screen is much less obstructed, much easier to use, and does a lot more functionally to boot. This is because I took the time to set it up in a compact, contextual-based fashion how ZOS should have available to everyone by default with options to turn things off or on outright. The ESO user interface is not minimalistic. It is barren.

Let's turn that nameplate argument around: "I'm 100% for nameplates and am so happy everyone can't toggle them. If there's one thing they did right, it was to leave them on." Would you be saying that last sentence if they hadn't disabled them? Thought not.

See the problem? Options for the win. You aren't me, and you shouldn't be dictating my own screen's UI. I have a minimalistic one after a lot of work, while the stock UI is just large and doesn't give much of anything to see what is happening in game. I can hit to refine all and filter that by material or craft or quality. I have a combat log tab, though it's limited by the API. I have a mini tiny damage meter and heal meter right by my friends icon. I can see my long duration buffs right above my potion quickslots against the edge of my chat box, and even click a quickslot to select it rather than using the wheel, or hotkey each slot. I can mark stuff that I want to sell on a guild store so it isn't accidentally vendored or deconstructed. I can toggle with a hotkey, a recap window of the last fight showing me all the nitty gritty details, if I want, or press it only when I want to find out what happened when something seemed unusual. I even have a bag slot indicator and a time in hours shown for my mount feeding/training. Heck, my minimap is small, but I can scroll it in or out with the mouse wheel and click a wayshrine, or hover over any map pin to see how far away I am from it, while the compass system provides more immediate-surroundings information in tandem.

This is what my UI looks like in town on my new dragon knight closing in on v14 with literally, as I said, over seventy addons installed.

Full-sized picture link: http://i.imgur.com/EsWjDQA.png


The API doesn't allow many things like nameplates or buff info sadly for short term buffs, but the gameplay is worlds better even just for the quality of life items, if you eschewed even having the ability to check stuff when you wanted entirely for whatever reason. Why a calculator needs to be broken out to find out how much extra damage my spells will gain if I equip this new item instead of one I'm wearing, or to figure out what Burning is on a staff, isn't fun. It's tedious. Needing to pull up a full screen map to simply see what direction the bank's in? That is too.

Open it up and let people choose how they want to see the game. Don't force it n them either way.

Any word on API improvements and/or user interface enhancements from someone like @Zos_GaryA or @ZOS_Gideon , or can we have some insight on this in general?

Smiteye

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

wilsonirayb16_ESO wrote: »

I think most of the things listed are achievable with addons now, and they work perfectly fine while still keeping a minimalistic view.

I am 100% against nameplates and am so happy ESO doesn't have them. If there's one thing they did right, it was to not include them.

A common misconception. I have 70+ individual addons installed yet my screen is much less obstructed, much easier to use, and does a lot more functionally to boot. This is because I took the time to set it up in a compact, contextual-based fashion how ZOS should have available to everyone by default with options to turn things off or on outright. The ESO user interface is not minimalistic. It is barren.

Let's turn that nameplate argument around: "I'm 100% for nameplates and am so happy everyone can't toggle them. If there's one thing they did right, it was to leave them on." Would you be saying that last sentence if they hadn't disabled them? Thought not.

See the problem? Options for the win. You aren't me, and you shouldn't be dictating my own screen's UI. I have a minimalistic one after a lot of work, while the stock UI is just large and doesn't give much of anything to see what is happening in game. I can hit to refine all and filter that by material or craft or quality. I have a combat log tab, though it's limited by the API. I have a mini tiny damage meter and heal meter right by my friends icon. I can see my long duration buffs right above my potion quickslots against the edge of my chat box, and even click a quickslot to select it rather than using the wheel, or hotkey each slot. I can mark stuff that I want to sell on a guild store so it isn't accidentally vendored or deconstructed. I can toggle with a hotkey, a recap window of the last fight showing me all the nitty gritty details, if I want, or press it only when I want to find out what happened when something seemed unusual. I even have a bag slot indicator and a time in hours shown for my mount feeding/training. Heck, my minimap is small, but I can scroll it in or out with the mouse wheel and click a wayshrine, or hover over any map pin to see how far away I am from it, while the compass system provides more immediate-surroundings information in tandem.

This is what my UI looks like in town on my new dragon knight closing in on v14 with literally, as I said, over seventy addons installed.

Full-sized picture link: http://i.imgur.com/EsWjDQA.png


The API doesn't allow many things like nameplates or buff info sadly for short term buffs, but the gameplay is worlds better even just for the quality of life items, if you eschewed even having the ability to check stuff when you wanted entirely for whatever reason. Why a calculator needs to be broken out to find out how much extra damage my spells will gain if I equip this new item instead of one I'm wearing, or to figure out what Burning is on a staff, isn't fun. It's tedious. Needing to pull up a full screen map to simply see what direction the bank's in? That is too.

Open it up and let people choose how they want to see the game. Don't force it n them either way.

Any word on API improvements and/or user interface enhancements from someone like @Zos_GaryA or @ZOS_Gideon , or can we have some insight on this in general?

The way people go on youd think it would be the starship enterprise lol.

Attorneyatlawl

"Smiteye wrote: »

The way people go on youd think it would be the starship enterprise lol.

Nope . Random screenshots of poorly laid out custom addon interfaces for WOW are on a different planet from what smart UI design is , or what anyone actually plays using in the first place.

Smiteye

Lol, they have buried info so much that when the new foundry tactical combat by @Atropos was released yesterday I saw tons of people in my guilds asking what simple stuff like "Hemorrhage" was that "keeps showing up on my buff tracker, never seen it before, what is it!?". It's a base skill line nightblade passive yet they had no clue on that and a lot of others...

Continuing to mash away at having no way to track taunts and no sense of community since I cant even see name tags or guildplates for guildies, only ever notice them in the chat box 'cause of that.