[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?

DDuke

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Blackmoon777 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Blackmoon777 wrote: »

it is just to take your $$$, and champion system is designed for long grind (years), so u will pay to have advantage (more champion points) and u will pay alot, difference in power betwen player who has 200CP is drastic, it is 100% pay to win,
i think we sould vote if we want ANY exp boosters in crown shop or not ,simply YES / NO

i say NO exp boosters!

LOL for you! You really think they care what our vote is?

thx for your LOL !

anyway

if they dont care about what we think (as u said) it is even better to vote! i just want to see 90% of players choosing NO (i dont want exp boosters) and if they implement it anyway it will be clear what is their policy

The thing is, if they really made a vote - an ingame vote, not on the forums as a very low percentage of players come to the forums - you'd be surprised by the huge amount of players who would/will buy those XP pots lol.

Oh, no one will say it here on the forums because they fear what others will write about them, but I can garantee you that a lot of the people yelling about them right now in this thread are the ones who will buy lots of them when they are available lol...

This poll has already been made: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

How many players playing the game voted on it is irrelevant, since we establish a margin of error & nail down the public opinion with 99% confidence.

Here's some reading for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

Nightscar wrote: »

Omg you guys are still bitching about this hahha
You ALL realize that ZOS is a business right... ROFL
There not a charity people who work on the game have families to and they need to eat..
If it was up to you guys the game would be all free with tons of updates and no cash shop lol...
Good old "self entitled" generation is at full swing I see...
You all are gunna have a rude awaking when life hits you in the face...

If it was up to me, this game would have stayed P2P, being fair to everyone participating. Not segregating player population between Credit Card Warriors & normal people, though these games will naturally not see the same amount of steady, significant content updates as P2P games.

There's plenty of evidence that MMOs (and MOBAs) can succesfully manage a B2P/F2P model without going P2W.

Just the DLC content alone could bring the same 15$/month, if they worked on that content instead of P2W grind systems. Then you add in costumes & pets, character transfers, name changes, barbershop etc (things that don't grant advantages over other players), and you've got a good revenue.

Attorneyatlawl

Varicite wrote: »

Nightscar wrote: »

Omg you guys are still bitching about this hahha
You ALL realize that ZOS is a business right... ROFL
There not a charity people who work on the game have families to and they need to eat..
If it was up to you guys the game would be all free with tons of updates and no cash shop lol...
Good old "self entitled" generation is at full swing I see...
You all are gunna have a rude awaking when life hits you in the face...

None of what you said has anything to do w/ anything.

Strange that Planetside 2 still seems to be putting food on the table and has never been P2W.

Also has TONS more players while everything actually is absolutely free.

I'm not saying to do that here, but saying that you have to introduce P2W tactics into a game for it to sell at all is just silly.

P2W is the fastest and surest way to cash out and sink a game into the ocean floor. If these xp potions make it in game as pictured and are allowed even if nerfed in percentage to affect champion point gains, we can expect a spiral of more pay to win over the coming months until the game becomes a 3d chat box with little discussion even there. Let's see what happens.

The way they decide to implement these xp potions will basically tell the tale of the game's success or failure. Awesome p2w version? We know the game is going into near maintenance mode and cashing out with plans to add more and more until it dies to max profitability. Moderate version not affecting cp gains? They at least want to support the product but are hedging their bets a bit. Ok or low version without champ gains and with a cool down between usages (for example, 2 hours with a 6 hour or more re use timer)? They have confidence in ESO and are committed to making it into a future further success.

Attorneyatlawl

DDuke wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Blackmoon777 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Blackmoon777 wrote: »

it is just to take your $$$, and champion system is designed for long grind (years), so u will pay to have advantage (more champion points) and u will pay alot, difference in power betwen player who has 200CP is drastic, it is 100% pay to win,
i think we sould vote if we want ANY exp boosters in crown shop or not ,simply YES / NO

i say NO exp boosters!

LOL for you! You really think they care what our vote is?

thx for your LOL !

anyway

if they dont care about what we think (as u said) it is even better to vote! i just want to see 90% of players choosing NO (i dont want exp boosters) and if they implement it anyway it will be clear what is their policy

The thing is, if they really made a vote - an ingame vote, not on the forums as a very low percentage of players come to the forums - you'd be surprised by the huge amount of players who would/will buy those XP pots lol.

Oh, no one will say it here on the forums because they fear what others will write about them, but I can garantee you that a lot of the people yelling about them right now in this thread are the ones who will buy lots of them when they are available lol...

This poll has already been made: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

How many players playing the game voted on it is irrelevant, since we establish a margin of error & nail down the public opinion with 99% confidence.

Here's some reading for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

Nightscar wrote: »

Omg you guys are still bitching about this hahha
You ALL realize that ZOS is a business right... ROFL
There not a charity people who work on the game have families to and they need to eat..
If it was up to you guys the game would be all free with tons of updates and no cash shop lol...
Good old "self entitled" generation is at full swing I see...
You all are gunna have a rude awaking when life hits you in the face...

If it was up to me, this game would have stayed P2P, being fair to everyone participating. Not segregating player population between Credit Card Warriors & normal people, though these games will naturally not see the same amount of steady, significant content updates as P2P games.

There's plenty of evidence that MMOs (and MOBAs) can succesfully manage a B2P/F2P model without going P2W.

Just the DLC content alone could bring the same 15$/month, if they worked on that content instead of P2W grind systems. Then you add in costumes & pets, character transfers, name changes, barbershop etc (things that don't grant advantages over other players), and you've got a good revenue.

Well said. Also the poll has 282 votes which isn't far off from the margin of error in most political polling, you're right. It's very clear that even poorly understood issues like pay to win don't get much support from anyone, and analytically we can safely assume a number of those "yes" votes would change if they understood the implications and impact of that system.

Ley

Just here to point out, once more, that that poll has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. The margin of error is irrelevant because people who don't want the game to become p2w don't necessarily have a problem with exp boosters and don't necessarily consider them a p2w item in the context of that poll. The poll was taken out of context to support his argument and was done so in a pretty obvious manner.

I don't care if they add exp boosters or not I just still can't believe how bent out of shape people are getting over this. Either way my life goes on and I keep playing eso without loosing any sleep. The thing that bothers me most in this thread. Is how some of the people here just assume that anyone who supports or is indifferent towards exp boosters is just too ignorant to know that they should be against it or is a p2w supporter.

It may be surprising but some of us are not idiots, we understand what affect exp boosters will have on the game and we're ok with that. Some of us weigh the good vs the bad and see it as a fair trade off. The people who will be effected the most by this are the top 0.001% of the most elite, competitive players. No game should base its decisions solely on it effect on those players but rather the greater good.

Iluvrien

Ley wrote: »

It may be surprising but some of us are not idiots, we understand what affect exp boosters will have on the game and we're ok with that. Some of us weigh the good vs the bad and see it as a fair trade off. The people who will be effected the most by this are the top 0.001% of the most elite, competitive players. No game should base its decisions solely on it effect on those players but rather the greater good.

And some of us suspect that the "greater good" of which you speak will be affected by the presence of this, and similar, mechanics. The crown store has just opened. The items we see now really are just the initial offerings in what is likely to be a long term development path.

If that is acceptable to you then that is all well and good, it is your choice based on your own understanding and feelings towards these items. You will, of course, allow the people who are "bent out of shape" the chance to air their opinions too, yes?

Lionxoft

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Blackmoon777 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Blackmoon777 wrote: »

it is just to take your $$$, and champion system is designed for long grind (years), so u will pay to have advantage (more champion points) and u will pay alot, difference in power betwen player who has 200CP is drastic, it is 100% pay to win,
i think we sould vote if we want ANY exp boosters in crown shop or not ,simply YES / NO

i say NO exp boosters!

LOL for you! You really think they care what our vote is?

thx for your LOL !

anyway

if they dont care about what we think (as u said) it is even better to vote! i just want to see 90% of players choosing NO (i dont want exp boosters) and if they implement it anyway it will be clear what is their policy

The thing is, if they really made a vote - an ingame vote, not on the forums as a very low percentage of players come to the forums - you'd be surprised by the huge amount of players who would/will buy those XP pots lol.

Oh, no one will say it here on the forums because they fear what others will write about them, but I can garantee you that a lot of the people yelling about them right now in this thread are the ones who will buy lots of them when they are available lol...

This poll has already been made: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159484/do-you-want-p2w/p1

How many players playing the game voted on it is irrelevant, since we establish a margin of error & nail down the public opinion with 99% confidence.

Here's some reading for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

Nightscar wrote: »

Omg you guys are still bitching about this hahha
You ALL realize that ZOS is a business right... ROFL
There not a charity people who work on the game have families to and they need to eat..
If it was up to you guys the game would be all free with tons of updates and no cash shop lol...
Good old "self entitled" generation is at full swing I see...
You all are gunna have a rude awaking when life hits you in the face...

If it was up to me, this game would have stayed P2P, being fair to everyone participating. Not segregating player population between Credit Card Warriors & normal people, though these games will naturally not see the same amount of steady, significant content updates as P2P games.

There's plenty of evidence that MMOs (and MOBAs) can succesfully manage a B2P/F2P model without going P2W.

Just the DLC content alone could bring the same 15$/month, if they worked on that content instead of P2W grind systems. Then you add in costumes & pets, character transfers, name changes, barbershop etc (things that don't grant advantages over other players), and you've got a good revenue.

Well said. Also the poll has 282 votes which isn't far off from the margin of error in most political polling, you're right. It's very clear that even poorly understood issues like pay to win don't get much support from anyone, and analytically we can safely assume a number of those "yes" votes would change if they understood the implications and impact of that system.

I too think a lot of the support for XP boosters is founded from a lack of understanding from people who might not have unlocked the Champion System at all yet.

Destai

Shehriazad wrote: »

I still fail to see how 50% XP potions are pay to win.

Grinding XP faster =/= Turning you into a winner


Sure...if the person spams those pots until he reaches 3600 CP...he will get there faster than a non paying person...but let's be real...you are still looking at hundreds to thousands of hours of playtime, aye?

Not to mention CPs have diminishing returns. The difference between someone with 2400 CP vs someone with 3600 is pretty much 0 in a battle situation.

Since at some point you will have to skill CPs that are useless to you and don't actually make you stronger in battle. So what's the point?

Yes...someone spending a few hundred $ a month will be at the new insane CP cap faster than you...but does he get something youc an't get? No.

Will he be way stronger in battle than you? Hell no.


I'd say after like 1000 CP or so the BATTLE stat difference for ANY given build should be somewhere between 0-1%.

Any purchaseable item that allows the circumvention or lessening of core game mechanics is pay to win. You buy the game to play it, not buy it to buy items to not play it.

farrier_ESO

Destai wrote: »

Any purchaseable item that allows the circumvention or lessening of core game mechanics is pay to win.

That's just weakening the term with false definitions.

This just makes it harder for us to argue against REAL pay-to-win elements, because they get used to the cries of "waaah, pay to win, evil!" for every single convenience item.

There is a radical difference between, say, a 1% xp boost (pay-to-catch-up, aka convenience items), and genuine pay-to-win items like buy-in-store emperor status, achievements and quest completions - stuff where you can pay money and become better than anyone who has not paid.

Certainly, you can argue against pay-to-catch-up items, but you're not on a very strong footing: you're basically arguing "I started playing first, so I should always be better than latecomers, nyah nyah elitism rules".

Arguing against P2W though, is an argument against making elements of the game that can only be attained by paying, whether those areas are the tops of the leaderboards, accessing certain areas, the best armor or weaponry, the best stats of any kind, etc. this is a completely different argument, which becomes weakened by people conflating it with mere convenience items.

Varicite

farrier_ESO wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Any purchaseable item that allows the circumvention or lessening of core game mechanics is pay to win.

There is a radical difference between, say, a 1% xp boost (pay-to-catch-up, aka convenience items), and genuine pay-to-win items like buy-in-store emperor status, achievements and quest completions - stuff where you can pay money and become better than anyone who has not paid.

Everything you just named can be obtained in game and gives arguably a much less noticeable performance boost than, say, gaining CP 50% faster than the next person.

And a far more permanent boost to your character.

I fail to see how achievements or quest completions are more pay-to-win than something that tangibly makes your character stronger by a LARGE margin, like CP being gained a HUGE chunk faster.

We're not talking 1% here.

Kendaric

Varicite wrote: »

farrier_ESO wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Any purchaseable item that allows the circumvention or lessening of core game mechanics is pay to win.

There is a radical difference between, say, a 1% xp boost (pay-to-catch-up, aka convenience items), and genuine pay-to-win items like buy-in-store emperor status, achievements and quest completions - stuff where you can pay money and become better than anyone who has not paid.

Everything you just named can be obtained in game and gives arguably a much less noticeable performance boost than, say, gaining CP 50% faster than the next person.

And a far more permanent boost to your character.

I fail to see how achievements or quest completions are more pay-to-win than something that tangibly makes your character stronger by a LARGE margin, like CP being gained a HUGE chunk faster.

We're not talking 1% here.

If the exp boost applies to champion points, yes.
They could make it available until level 49 to prevent that and I think that´s likely to happen. It would essentially be something applicable for alts to save them having to redo every quest.

Varicite

Kendaric wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

farrier_ESO wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Any purchaseable item that allows the circumvention or lessening of core game mechanics is pay to win.

There is a radical difference between, say, a 1% xp boost (pay-to-catch-up, aka convenience items), and genuine pay-to-win items like buy-in-store emperor status, achievements and quest completions - stuff where you can pay money and become better than anyone who has not paid.

Everything you just named can be obtained in game and gives arguably a much less noticeable performance boost than, say, gaining CP 50% faster than the next person.

And a far more permanent boost to your character.

I fail to see how achievements or quest completions are more pay-to-win than something that tangibly makes your character stronger by a LARGE margin, like CP being gained a HUGE chunk faster.

We're not talking 1% here.

If the exp boost applies to champion points, yes.
They could make it available until level 49 to prevent that and I think that´s likely to happen. It would essentially be something applicable for alts to save them having to redo every quest.

They could, but do you honestly see that happening?

They will make so much more money if they apply to CP, no questions asked. Seems like an inevitability.

Skiserony

The best for the players is that potion only boosts xp and for the game itself (moneys) it's the best they boost the CP as well.

What the most important is, is a decision for ZoS. As long we know that money for the game also could mean improvements for the players as well.

I just think (or hope) if they boost xp it won't be bad for the gameplay of those who are behind, since being competitive will not become a matter f time and practice but then also your wallet. It's a hard choice, either way is fine for me tbh.

nastuug

Lionxoft

nastuug wrote: »

A month isn't too much of a necro for a 29 page thread with over 30k impressions.

Iluvrien

Lionxoft wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

A month isn't too much of a necro for a 29 page thread with over 30k impressions.

Almost 2 months, and the debate has moved on substantially enough, if only through the introduction of other "convenience" items such as riding lessons, that continuing debate on this topic should probably be carried out in threads such as this one (about riding lessons, motifs and general crown store items) instead.

Lionxoft

Iluvrien wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

A month isn't too much of a necro for a 29 page thread with over 30k impressions.

Almost 2 months, and the debate has moved on substantially enough, if only through the introduction of other "convenience" items such as riding lessons, that continuing debate on this topic should probably be carried out in threads such as this one (about riding lessons, motifs and general crown store items) instead.

The impact of each of those items that you listed is so incredibly underwhelming when compared to items that allow you to gain power faster which ultimately means players will pay for a statistical advantage. A case could be made for horse training but you don't ride your horse during trial/dungeon boss fights so I still believe them to be on another level entirely. I have also never killed a boss by looking fancy or having an overpriced mount.

Sure, they will be sold on the Crown Store but a community poison like this is in another league entirely. To just throw it along with horse feeding, motifs and other vanity items is just foolish. None of those really have an effect on actual power in the game but xp boosts most definitely will.

Then again I'm reminded that I don't really care anymore. This game has run it's course but that could just be the negligence shown towards the PC community so far in 2015... You know halfway through it.

Iluvrien

Lionxoft wrote: »

Sure, they will be sold on the Crown Store but a community poison like this is in another league entirely. To just throw it along with horse feeding, motifs and other vanity items is just foolish. None of those really have an effect on actual power in the game but xp boosts most definitely will.

Take off your numbers-are-everything hat for a moment and please try and see what impact the things you label as "vanity items" might have on other players.

Lionxoft

Iluvrien wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Sure, they will be sold on the Crown Store but a community poison like this is in another league entirely. To just throw it along with horse feeding, motifs and other vanity items is just foolish. None of those really have an effect on actual power in the game but xp boosts most definitely will.

Take off your numbers-are-everything hat for a moment and please try and see what impact the things you label as "vanity items" might have on other players.

Sorry but costumes or faster horses don't kill bosses. Maybe if I look awesome and ride into battle like Gandalf the boss will just fall over, right? Is that how that works?

There's a HUGE difference between these items and how they impact the spirit of the game. If vanity items being sold on a cash shop bugs you then you shouldn't have bought this game because they stated in q1 of 2014 that there would be vanity items sold. They did also say that they would never sell power which the xp boosters most certainly are selling power if they apply to the champion system.

Iluvrien

Lionxoft wrote: »

Sorry but costumes or faster horses don't kill bosses. Maybe if I look awesome and ride into battle like Gandalf the boss will just fall over, right? Is that how that works?

Of course it doesn't, don't try and construct a strawman. You are suggesting that these things are not important because they don't "kill bosses". I asked you, politely, to take off your numbers-are-everything hat. There are things that have an impact on other players or other systems in the game that don't directly translate to how fast you can kill a boss. Also, as a point of fact motifs != costumes. This has been covered before.

Lionxoft wrote: »

There's a HUGE difference between these items and how they impact the spirit of the game. If vanity items being sold on a cash shop bugs you then you shouldn't have bought this game because they stated in q1 of 2014 that there would be vanity items sold. They did also say that they would never sell power which the xp boosters most certainly are selling power if they apply to the champion system.

Vanity items being sold on a cash shop doesn't bug me (further than the presence of the cash shop itself). I also agree that if they sell XP boosters that impact the CS it will be significantly damaging to the game. However, where we seem to differ is that I am of the opinion that selling motifs (especially) and mount training (to a lesser degree) are both aspects of the same mindset and so intentionally segregating discussion of these things does not help.

[EDIT: Amended typo from "do directly" to "don't directly" in the first paragraph to fit with context of the rest of the post]

Lionxoft

Iluvrien wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Sorry but costumes or faster horses don't kill bosses. Maybe if I look awesome and ride into battle like Gandalf the boss will just fall over, right? Is that how that works?

Of course it doesn't, don't try and construct a strawman. You are suggesting that these things are not important because they don't "kill bosses". I asked you, politely, to take off your numbers-are-everything hat. There are things that have an impact on other players or other systems in the game that do directly translate to how fast you can kill a boss. Also, as a point of fact motifs != costumes. This has been covered before.

Lionxoft wrote: »

There's a HUGE difference between these items and how they impact the spirit of the game. If vanity items being sold on a cash shop bugs you then you shouldn't have bought this game because they stated in q1 of 2014 that there would be vanity items sold. They did also say that they would never sell power which the xp boosters most certainly are selling power if they apply to the champion system.

Vanity items being sold on a cash shop doesn't bug me (further than the presence of the cash shop itself). I also agree that if they sell XP boosters that impact the CS it will be significantly damaging to the game. However, where we seem to differ is that I am of the opinion that selling motifs (especially) and mount training (to a lesser degree) are both aspects of the same mindset and so intentionally segregating discussion of these things does not help.

I can't believe that you're actually implying that the sale of cosmetic items needs to be discussed in the same category as p2w power sales. Dwemer styled gear doesn't hit any harder than Breton styled. I'm not sure how this affects gameplay at it's core but you obviously feel that they are both issues to be discussed on the same level.

One breaks the spirit of the game. The others don't. Not in the slightest. Style items, costumes, pets, mounts and services are the consistent fuel of cash shops and you shouldn't be surprised at all to see it in the game since we were told before launch that the cash shop would include vanity items and services like a name change. I find it funny that those aren't included already but I suppose priorities shift.

My buddy came online today and said "Man! That guy's Argonian motif hit me so hard. I feel like I'm at a competitive disadvantage!".

That's a lie. No one has ever said that to me and if they did I'd probably laugh. Quite loudly I might add.

It doesn't affect you at all unless you're worried about how other people look which no cash shop policy or philosophy change would help with that. Getting one shot by someone with 3600CP because they essentially bought them would wreck the competitive spirit of the game. If you're a motif gatherer then I could see your sales dropping a bit. I mean is there any noticeable difference between the cash shop or looted versions? Does the cash shop version have a cooler look that I'm not aware of? How do you become aware that someone bought their dwemer style book from the cash shop? How does this actually affect you?

It doesn't. This discussion comparing the two like they actually are on a similar level is such a waste of time. One is an atom bomb and the other is a pillow fight.

SeptimusDova

Is this XP gain for Level XP only? Or CP only or Both? was this a reason for XP Nerf or because of the XP nerf?

Lionxoft

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Is this XP gain for Level XP only? Or CP only or Both? was this a reason for XP Nerf or because of the XP nerf?

The latest xp booster shows from all sources which would mean it affects CP as well. Also, it takes up your food/drink buff so you will be at a statistical disadvantage. That's assuming that the xp boosters from the crown shop haven't been altered.

Lastly, some would attribute the xp nerf to the impending xp boosters to spark more interest into these items. That's neither confirmed nor denied to my knowledge.

SeptimusDova

Lionxoft on the confirm deny thing yes that is conspiratorial and debatable and I wont dabble with that paradigm. So drink the potion and have no other potions or foods that you may need for group delves,bosses, undaunted thingys ? Hmm that should be enough to make people pause. If they are grinding mobs then I reckon they can forego their buffs. I do not want an xp potion. I want to enjoy the journey on my new baby toons. My flower planting Khajiit is coming along fine with no buffs. And like poop, cp happens. @zenimax this is a controversial item please think long and deliberately about introducing it into the game. Like the vapours once let loose in the elevator It cannot be taken back.

Iluvrien

First, I will apologise. These was a typo in my last post that may have led you to confuse its meaning... although I would have thought the context in which the comment was made would have cleared up any misunderstanding... apparently not. The line was:

Iluvrien wrote:

There are things that have an impact on other players or other systems in the game that do directly translate to how fast you can kill a boss.

And was referring, as is shown in the context of the rest of the paragraph (and post) as to how there are other things in the game that are important without being numbers, so what it should have said was:

Iluvrien wrote:

There are things that have an impact on other players or other systems in the game that don't directly translate to how fast you can kill a boss.

I have amended the original post but I am keeping both lines, my apology and this explanation in the thread so it is clear that I am not flipping my stated view on its head.

That said...

Lionxoft wrote: »

I can't believe that you're actually implying that the sale of cosmetic items needs to be discussed in the same category as p2w power sales. Dwemer styled gear doesn't hit any harder than Breton styled. I'm not sure how this affects gameplay at it's core but you obviously feel that they are both issues to be discussed on the same level.

I know you can't. Your view seems to be entirely coloured by the numbers. Even when I suggest trying to see it from another point of view. A game-view so intransigent as that is unlikely to be able to see why I am saying what I am saying and thus cannot believe it.

Lionxoft wrote: »

<snip for brevity>

It doesn't affect you at all unless you're worried about how other people look which no cash shop policy or philosophy change would help with that. Getting one shot by someone with 3600CP because they essentially bought them would wreck the competitive spirit of the game. If you're a motif gatherer then I could see your sales dropping a bit. I mean is there any noticeable difference between the cash shop or looted versions? Does the cash shop version have a cooler look that I'm not aware of? How do you become aware that someone bought their dwemer style book from the cash shop? How does this actually affect you?

It doesn't. This discussion comparing the two like they actually are on a similar level is such a waste of time. One is an atom bomb and the other is a pillow fight.

I am not a motif gatherer. I am a crafter. My primary income in this game comes from the creation of fully upgraded and enchanted gear for anyone who is willing to pay for it. Players, especially my regular cleints, came to me because I had motifs that they didn't want to use gold on... or use time on. Since the motifs were included in the cash these orders have dried up. At least one of my previous clients has now directly informed me that this is because they were able to buy the motif book they wanted (Ancient Elf) from the crown store and so no longer have need of my services. There were 5 other regular clients that I had before the intro of these books. I have had a single order from one of them since. I am also seeing fewer "Can anyone craft X for me..." in the early zones (where I used to go to pick up new clients, answer questions and collect mats) than before.

As such, and with regards to my own experience, this change does affect me.

I am not asking you to confirm the impact. I am telling you that there has already been an impact. That is why I believe that these are aspects of the same thing (crown store items that have an effect on the community) and should be discussed together.

Spottswoode

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Anoteros wrote: »

Cinder82 wrote: »

PLEASE DO! I WILL BUY TONS OF THESE!!! I WILL BE PLAYING NON-STOP WITH THIS BOOST UP!! HELL YEAH.

when can i buy these

If it'll spare me from the tedious grinding which will no doubt cause me to stop playing entirely i'm all for them.
As long as they don't start selling armour sets etc

How to make money:

Step 1. Make game. Charge $15 per month.
Step 2. Nerf game so it takes much more time to get levels. Make game free to access after a one time purchase.
Step 3. Announce xp potions to bring you back to 1/3 or 1/2 of the previous speed.
Step 4. Let people who didn't pay any attention beg for the potions as RMT cash shop items to still be stuck leveling half-speed and paying money the whole way along that far exceeds what the basic $15/mo subscription had been.
Step 5. PROFIT! Game sinks as it becomes pay to win, but you rake in the cash as it does, while forum guys scream about how awesome it is until their game drowns,

Make the game about waiting...errr....grinding.


This seems about where this died at.

Lionxoft

@Iluvrien

Atom Bomb vs Pillow Fight.

XP Potions: Significant power boost and bosses die faster. Competitive imbalance in PvP drives players away. Players cannot post top trial times without them. Players who wish to not pay to win quit the game or become disinterested. Players interested in the game but haven't purchased it yet hear that it's p2w and refuse to purchase it.

Motifs: As a crafter, people don't buy your stuff as much but your stuff is still desired by a subset of the community. Game world continues to turn. No competitive imbalance whether it's player vs player or player vs monster is created.

I'll let you decided which is the pillow fight.

If you didn't want to see cosmetic or vanity items on the cash shop then why did you buy the game? It's been very clear that their intention for the cash shop was to offer cosmetic/vanity items and services since before day one of release.

With that said I'd like to give a short word about your lost "client". RIP and I hope he enjoys crafting his own gear from now on.

Iluvrien

Lionxoft wrote: »

Atom Bomb vs Pillow Fight.

<snip>

I'll let you decided which is the pillow fight.

Of course the XP potions are a primary concern, but denigrating all discussion of the other matters as being something that "doesn't affect you at all" is also disingenuous. I have to say, I actually started out with a fair amount of sympathy towards the PvP and competitive PvE communities (even though I have little interest in joining either these days), but if this "our problem is the only one worth discussing" attitude is prevalent then I have to wonder how many others, in addition to myself, you are pushing away from supporting them.

Lionxoft wrote: »

If you didn't want to see cosmetic or vanity items on the cash shop then why did you buy the game? It's been very clear that their intention for the cash shop was to offer cosmetic/vanity items and services since before day one of release.

I joined on day 1 of early access. Within the first hour, I think. The specification for the crown story (post B2P) may well have included the emphasis on cosmetic and convenience items. The cash shop (that included the Explorer's pack and Imperial edition) did not, as far as I could tell. So, to be quite blunt, I bought the game before the intention to include these items (especially the XP potion) was ever even alluded to.

Lionxoft wrote: »

With that said I'd like to give a short word about your lost "client". RIP and I hope he enjoys crafting his own gear from now on.

What a wonderfully mean-spirited thing to say. I think that tells me pretty much all I needed to know about your character, don't you?

NadiusMaximus

Lol 29 pages and how many mod comments on the subject?
Say something and end the speculation, it's not good business practice to let rampant rambling about your product go Un checked when a simple one sentence can end it.

Peekachu99

Considering the depreciating value of CP boosts after a while, XP pots are the only way to feasibly grind out 3600 points--without being unemployed, jacked on red bull and wearing diapers.

I see no problem, though I'd rather they reduce the XP needed for each CP instead.

Lionxoft

Iluvrien wrote: »

Lionxoft wrote: »

Atom Bomb vs Pillow Fight.

<snip>

I'll let you decided which is the pillow fight.

Of course the XP potions are a primary concern, but denigrating all discussion of the other matters as being something that "doesn't affect you at all" is also disingenuous. I have to say, I actually started out with a fair amount of sympathy towards the PvP and competitive PvE communities (even though I have little interest in joining either these days), but if this "our problem is the only one worth discussing" attitude is prevalent then I have to wonder how many others, in addition to myself, you are pushing away from supporting them.

Lionxoft wrote: »

If you didn't want to see cosmetic or vanity items on the cash shop then why did you buy the game? It's been very clear that their intention for the cash shop was to offer cosmetic/vanity items and services since before day one of release.

I joined on day 1 of early access. Within the first hour, I think. The specification for the crown story (post B2P) may well have included the emphasis on cosmetic and convenience items. The cash shop (that included the Explorer's pack and Imperial edition) did not, as far as I could tell. So, to be quite blunt, I bought the game before the intention to include these items (especially the XP potion) was ever even alluded to.

Lionxoft wrote: »

With that said I'd like to give a short word about your lost "client". RIP and I hope he enjoys crafting his own gear from now on.

What a wonderfully mean-spirited thing to say. I think that tells me pretty much all I needed to know about your character, don't you?

@Iluvrien

They stated that the cash shop would have cosmetic/style/funny hat items and services back as early as 2013. I'm not stating that your issue with the crown store is not an issue entirely but it is most definitely of less significance. I really don't care how you spend your time in-game. Your time is your time but motifs on the crown store is a non-issue in my book. That's my opinion. You don't have to like it.

My last comment was more directed at humor because you seemed to be so serious about making gold. I thought it was nice that he was able to craft his own gear finally but I didn't understand that you were actually upset about it. I'm sorry for that misinterpretation.