Treasure Chest Ettiquette

eNumbra

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Don't worry there are people here who agree with pug but aren't bothering with posting because it's a waste of time arguing with you. [...] Everyone here doesn't agree with you.

The irony, though.

LordSkyKnight

Pug as in pugyourself

UrQuan

pugyourself wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

I do understand the users who say it should be fair game for someone if I fail to pick the lock. But what if I'm lagging and he is not? Is it justifiable for someone to lose loot over the game lag that he is experiencing over another user?

Of course it is. How is it the other guy's fault that you're lagging? How could he even have any idea that you're lagging rather than just being bad at picking locks?

pugyourself wrote: »

It really comes down to etiquette. The unwritten rules. I know there will always be ***holes in an MMO, especially once it goes F2P. But there should be some method of mitigating the behavior...whether it is a duel opportunity or a respanwable unique chest. Until then, maybe it's just fifteen minutes of following the guy around and spamming his game chat and trolling monsters and others onto him so he thinks twice about doing it to someone else? (ideas I liked from this thread that are "do-able" at present).

Yeah, I've got news for you: if you're doing those things then you're the ***hole in the MMO, not the guy who grabbed a chest after you failed to pick the lock.

Not things that I would personally waste my time doing, but I think they would be an appropriate response to a chest stealer. I'd prefer an in-game resolution.

You really need to get this through your head: in your scenario he didn't steal anything from you. The system is designed to give someone else a chance at that chest immediately after you failed to pick the lock. The guy in your scenario did absolutely nothing wrong. Just because I wouldn't do it myself, that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with it, or anything rude about it. I also would never fail to hold a door open for someone, but if someone doesn't hold a door open for me, that doesn't make that person rude.

Under your rationale it's also ok for someone to steal a chest after someone picks the lock. Because that show the game is designed. It does make them rude. Get that through YOUR head, pal.

*sigh* here's what's wrong with the way you keep looking at this. You're acting like the lock picking cooldown wasn't introduced on purpose. Here's why it's there: it's there specifically to give other people a chance to pick that lock if you fail. So why would that be? It's because if you fail to pick a lock, but keep immediately re-trying in order to prevent someone else from getting a chance at it: that's rude. You're treating something like it's yours when you haven't earned it yet.

You know what's the right thing to do if you fail to pick a lock on a chest and someone else is hanging around? Step back and let them take a turn trying. That's what I do in the rare cases when I'm in that situation. I don't expect it of others, but if you're truly concerned about etiquette and people not being rude in this MMO, that's the right thing to do. Not complain when they take their chance (which was put into the game in the interests of fairness when competing for resources) to pick the lock.

Cuyler

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

The excuses ppl come up with to justify being rude

Excuses like "The in-game mechanics are clearly designed to allow other people to try opening a chest after you fail to pick the lock"? Those kind of excuses?

The in-game mechanics allow for a lot of things that can be considered inconsiderate. Just because you could doesn't mean you should. just saying.....not you specifically but in general.....don't be a ***.

A lot of things like what? Can you give examples?

Yes, but I won't. Why? because if you don't know by now, you never will.

That only makes it seem like you can't think of any examples.

No I just don't care that much lol. If one isn't self aware enough to realize what may be causing other's grief who am I to teach them? I'm no preacher, or at least the COC and TOS don't allow me to be. That's what the mods tell me anyhow.

smacx250

There are/will be plenty of chests to open - if not when you first start, at later levels. I personally stay away when people are attempting to open chests. I don't even bother to wait and see if they fail and give up (it is pretty rare - why waste my time). The chests I may have "lost" this way are insignificant in number compared to the ones I've gotten, and hopefully some others have enjoyed the game a little more.

I've been griefed a few times by someone literally following me around and then trying to beat me at the last second to every node or chest I find. At first I started to get upset, but decided to take a wayshrine and go somewhere else for a while. It's really not worth getting worked up over, even if they are an extreme jerk. I'm sure some do it just to get a reaction - just deny them and it won't be fun for them.

LordSkyKnight

Has any developer ever posted in this forum or in any interview stating the reason for the lock picking cooldown was for the purpose to allow someone else a chance to snatch the chest?

If so please provide proof.

Natjur

I have been trying to find the dev post (it was WAY back in beta so it might be gone) in which they say that YES, they did add the cool down so one player can not keep trying a chest endlessly (or while they have lock picks)

They said they added a 1.5 second cool down, so nearby players COULD have a go if the first player fails. Sure back then we were all low level and lots of chests where master level, but it is working as designed and other players now are just being polite when they do not try when you fail.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Cuyler wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

The excuses ppl come up with to justify being rude

Excuses like "The in-game mechanics are clearly designed to allow other people to try opening a chest after you fail to pick the lock"? Those kind of excuses?

The in-game mechanics allow for a lot of things that can be considered inconsiderate. Just because you could doesn't mean you should. just saying.....not you specifically but in general.....don't be a ***.

A lot of things like what? Can you give examples?

Yes, but I won't. Why? because if you don't know by now, you never will.

That only makes it seem like you can't think of any examples.

No I just don't care that much lol. If one isn't self aware enough to realize what may be causing other's grief who am I to teach them? I'm no preacher, or at least the COC and TOS don't allow me to be. That's what the mods tell me anyhow.

Yet you care enough to chime in, not once, but three times. It seems like it would be less energy to simply give a single example.

UrQuan

Cuyler wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

The excuses ppl come up with to justify being rude

Excuses like "The in-game mechanics are clearly designed to allow other people to try opening a chest after you fail to pick the lock"? Those kind of excuses?

The in-game mechanics allow for a lot of things that can be considered inconsiderate. Just because you could doesn't mean you should. just saying.....not you specifically but in general.....don't be a ***.

I agree with that, but I would point out that there's a difference between "the game mechanics allow for" and "the game mechanics are designed for". I'd be willing to bet that most (if not all) of the examples you might think of where the game mechanics allow for something that you shouldn't do if you don't want to be a *** are things where it's unintended consequences, or there's simply no good way to prevent it. That's very different from a game mechanic that was clearly designed specifically for the purpose of enabling the behavior in question. The lock pick cooldown was clearly intended to allow other people a fair chance of getting a chest if the other guy fails to open it.

dawnhawk

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Has any developer ever posted in this forum or in any interview stating the reason for the lock picking cooldown was for the purpose to allow someone else a chance to snatch the chest?

If so please provide proof.

Well - given that it was during BETA...the "proof" was wiped when the forums were. However I can verify that I also saw the post Natjur is referring to.

UrQuan

smacx250 wrote: »

There are/will be plenty of chests to open - if not when you first start, at later levels. I personally stay away when people are attempting to open chests. I don't even bother to wait and see if they fail and give up (it is pretty rare - why waste my time). The chests I may have "lost" this way are insignificant in number compared to the ones I've gotten, and hopefully some others have enjoyed the game a little more.

Me too, but I don't expect others to do this or consider them to be rude if they don't. Heck, I won't even try to race people to a chest. If you're going for it, I'll let you have it and keep going. If we're both running through a delve and I see and get to a chest before you do, I'll intentionally leave the next one that I see for you. If you don't see it and keep moving, I'll use /say to let you know that it's there if you want it. Again, though, I don't expect anyone else I encounter to follow my own rules of etiquette that I made up for myself to follow.

smacx250 wrote: »

It's really not worth getting worked up over, even if they are an extreme jerk. I'm sure some do it just to get a reaction - just deny them and it won't be fun for them.

That's probably true...

UrQuan

LordSkyKnight wrote: »

Has any developer ever posted in this forum or in any interview stating the reason for the lock picking cooldown was for the purpose to allow someone else a chance to snatch the chest?

If so please provide proof.

Even lacking the post (which, as noted above, would have come in Beta, and would therefore no longer be around), what other possible reason is there for the cooldown to exist?

Nebthet78

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Easy way to level Legerdemain to the low level Noob's in AD, get a 100 lockpicks (or 50) and go to Khenarthi's Roost and run along the beach, and look for chests to pick, go past MAI'Q on the western side and then run back to the eastern side. you get stuff and you level the skill at the same time.

I did this once to see if I could level my one VR character just by picking locks. Took me 3 days, but I did it. lol

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

That only happens if the person who picked the lock steps away from the chest without looting it. So yes, that's fine. Because if you step away from a chest without looting it, that's an indication that you don't want what's inside.

No, this is not just happening if someone steps away from the chest.

If your inventory is full and you need to destroy something because you need an item in the chest, the chest will actually close on you when you go into your inventory.

It is one thing if you close the chest on purpose and walk away from it knowing you left something in there. It is another thing if you are trying to make room for something you need and the chest closes on you and someone else comes in and steals it while you are trying to make room.

This had been a huge issue when the game was released and they had fixed it because of all the complaints about other players waiting for someone else to open a chest so they could steal the contents while another player made room for the items. Now the issue is back.

It also happens with resource nodes and bodies you loot, though you don't have to worry about someone else stealing your enemy loot.

I am hoping it is a bug and it is something they are going to fix it in the next patch. If this was done on purpose, then whomever made that decision needs smack up the side of the head with a really thick book!!

Ysne58 wrote: »

With the exception of the chest closing when your inventory is full. That had been fixed prior to 1.6 and was reverted in 1.6. But all the other examples are working as intended.

I agree. Typically if I see someone at a chest I just go on to the next one. Sometimes if they are having trouble on a difficult chest, I will open it for them and whisper them that they can have the items inside.

But yes, they did design it so that another player could try the chest if you fail to open it the first time. At times it sucks, but usually it isn't too bad.

pugyourself

Nebthet78 wrote: »

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Easy way to level Legerdemain to the low level Noob's in AD, get a 100 lockpicks (or 50) and go to Khenarthi's Roost and run along the beach, and look for chests to pick, go past MAI'Q on the western side and then run back to the eastern side. you get stuff and you level the skill at the same time.

I did this once to see if I could level my one VR character just by picking locks. Took me 3 days, but I did it. lol

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

That only happens if the person who picked the lock steps away from the chest without looting it. So yes, that's fine. Because if you step away from a chest without looting it, that's an indication that you don't want what's inside.

No, this is not just happening if someone steps away from the chest.

If your inventory is full and you need to destroy something because you need an item in the chest, the chest will actually close on you when you go into your inventory.

It is one thing if you close the chest on purpose and walk away from it knowing you left something in there. It is another thing if you are trying to make room for something you need and the chest closes on you and someone else comes in and steals it while you are trying to make room.

This had been a huge issue when the game was released and they had fixed it because of all the complaints about other players waiting for someone else to open a chest so they could steal the contents while another player made room for the items. Now the issue is back.

It also happens with resource nodes and bodies you loot, though you don't have to worry about someone else stealing your enemy loot.

I am hoping it is a bug and it is something they are going to fix it in the next patch. If this was done on purpose, then whomever made that decision needs smack up the side of the head with a really thick book!!

Ysne58 wrote: »

With the exception of the chest closing when your inventory is full. That had been fixed prior to 1.6 and was reverted in 1.6. But all the other examples are working as intended.

I agree. Typically if I see someone at a chest I just go on to the next one. Sometimes if they are having trouble on a difficult chest, I will open it for them and whisper them that they can have the items inside.

But yes, they did design it so that another player could try the chest if you fail to open it the first time. At times it sucks, but usually it isn't too bad.

My only beef is really when I'm lagging. If you see a non-noob flub a chest you can bet it's lag and not lockpicking skills. Why nick the chest from that guy? The only reason would be that someone feels like being a prick. My fear is that F2P is going to exacerbate the issue. Like when a pack of tourists lands in NYC and does things like walking three across down the street. It's not illegal but it really upsets most of the folks who call it home.

LordSkyKnight

It all comes down to integrity and some respect for fellow players. Yes you can swoop in there a grab the chest but in the long run, is it really worth it? Pug is right. When those free to play guys rush back it, they won't give a crap about screwing a fellow player out to get ahead. It's a chest with a little bit of exp and goodies, it's not medicine to rush home to save your dying kids.

dawnhawk

pugyourself wrote: »

My only beef is really when I'm lagging. If you see a non-noob flub a chest you can bet it's lag and not lockpicking skills. Why nick the chest from that guy? The only reason would be that someone feels like being a prick. My fear is that F2P is going to exacerbate the issue. Like when a pack of tourists lands in NYC and does things like walking three across down the street. It's not illegal but it really upsets most of the folks who call it home.

See - and here is a perfect example of what people are trying to point out.

No one is "nicking" the chest - this implies an entitlement that does not exist. No "rights" / ownership (actual or fictional) / or privilege of yours is being impugned upon here. There is nothing to fix.

Which means - there is no "issue". You may become more exasperated. That I will agree with. However the so-called "issue" will remain the same. Working as Intended.

Therefore no one is being a prick, or any other aspersion you wish to insinuate toward your fellow players.

Granted...since I'm trying to point this out to someone who apparently has an issue with groups of people larger than three existing in a public space...all hope of an intelligent conversation may be lost.

pugyourself

all hope of an intelligent conversation may be lost.

On this point, we can agree...albeit for different reasons.

Artemiisia

sorry to say it but making a forum post about it is just bahhh.

Yeah I have had this done to me like twice in a year, my world dont come to an end with that, and if so little had rattle my snake, and I would had gone postal on it, well I might wanted to talk to somebody instead of writing it here.

Soulshine

Please, whatever else we bring to the thread.... no cats, I beg you

bosmern_ESO

It's only your chest if you were able to pick lock it.

That being said, Sometimes when I see people fail at opening a chest, I will picklock it for them and carry on what I was doing without taking anything out of it to help out someone who just lost a picklock.

dawnhawk

@pugyourself - look I get that this upsets you (or whatever word you'd like to use) - upset is the word I choose due to your language choices and my interpretation of the inflammatory nature of said choices. Which is what I attempted to point out above.

However - I also get that you are new here. Which means you missed:

This post: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85480/please-stop-stealing-chests-being-worked-on/p1 (April 2014)

This post: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/110319/social-question (June 2014)

Every post during the Beta about this exact topic. And every other post about this exact topic since.

Soulshine doesn't want cats. I'd prefer we also left out the dead horses.

The "issue" is not actually an "issue".

dharbert

The resource nodes and chests are public. They don't belong to any certain person. There are probably several players who wish that I wouldn't strip mine Craglorn on a daily basis, but that's the way it works.

UrQuan

dawnhawk wrote: »

Soulshine doesn't want cats. I'd prefer we also left out the dead horses.

I want badgers. Can we have some badgers?

dawnhawk

@UrQuan Sure! lol

pugyourself

dawnhawk wrote: »

@pugyourself - look I get that this upsets you (or whatever word you'd like to use) - upset is the word I choose due to your language choices and my interpretation of the inflammatory nature of said choices. Which is what I attempted to point out above.

However - I also get that you are new here. Which means you missed:

This post: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/85480/please-stop-stealing-chests-being-worked-on/p1 (April 2014)

This post: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/110319/social-question (June 2014)

Every post during the Beta about this exact topic. And every other post about this exact topic since.

Soulshine doesn't want cats. I'd prefer we also left out the dead horses.

The "issue" is not actually an "issue".

I don't think my language choices are inflammatory. And I've been subbed for more than a year. So calling me a noob isn't really accurate. I do not regularly post to forums, this is true.

So what exactly is your point? Is Sorc nerfing not an issue because someone posted about it in Beta? I'm lost on your logic.

dawnhawk

@pugyourself - my apologies. My assessment that you were new was based on the fact that you joined the forums February of THIS year according to your profile. Whether you see it as inflammatory or not - I perceive it as such and chose the word "upset" based on my perception. I'm stating my assumptions out front in order to attempt to have a more meaningful engagement here.

"Bugs" are issues.

"Features" - as intended by design by the Developers are not.

You may not like them. That doesn't make it an "issue" - that is my point.

UrQuan

pugyourself wrote: »

I don't think my language choices are inflammatory.

I'll agree with you on that. I do think you're more upset by this topic than you should be, but I don't think your language choices in this thread have been inflammatory.

pugyourself wrote: »

So what exactly is your point? Is Sorc nerfing not an issue because someone posted about it in Beta? I'm lost on your logic.

The point is that there is a game mechanic in place to specifically allow other people a fair chance at getting a treasure chest after you've failed to get it. This is not a problem.

Ask yourself this: if you're lagging and can't open a treasure chest, why are you wanting to hog that chest and not allow another player a chance at it? If you can't open it the first time due to lag, odds are you won't be able to open it the second time for the same reason. Why don't you want the next guy running through to have a chance at it, when you're going to have a hell of a time trying to get it anyway? Especially when the game mechanics are specifically designed to prevent treasure chest hogging...

Athas24

LoL @ this post. There's so many chests in the game that if you fail and somebody comes buy and yoinks that chest, just move on. Who cares? the chests never have squat in them anyway. Just some green or blue garbage. Not even set pieces. Also, I never understand how people fail at lock picking. Even master locks are just less time allotted to pick the same difficulty of pins.

Athas24

pugyourself wrote: »

I started this thread because it's really about etiquette and making the game a nice place to play. This stuff is going to get exponentially worse on March 17th, which is why I brought it up now. ESO has unwritten rules and I think leaving a guy to his chest is one of them. Trying to ninja the contents or jumping on a chest if a guy doesn't pick the lock on first go is just rude and makes the game/community a rougher place than it needs to be. Also, let's face it. Even Master locks are a cinch if the game isn't lagging for you. So it's not like the guy didn't pick the lock because of his own lack of knowledge about the game.

there is only one rule in ESO. keep your shirt on. Outside of that you can do whatever you want. *takes shirt off and runs around*

Blud

There is no honor among thieves.